NFL.com's David Carr says Flacco is Number 3 overrated QB

[BmoreBird22]

On 6/29/2016 at 11:09 PM, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

$87 million guarenteed... 

I mean, luck is a very, very good QB. I'd rank him ahead of most, Flacco included, but good god

I don't even know what I'd do with that much money. Not to mention the signing bonus was over $30M

[BmoreBird22]

17 hours ago, flynismo said:

I have no clue why anyone would put Luck ahead of Flacco. Luck is obscenely overrated; you'd think the guy has multiple MVPs and a SB or two the way people talk about him. His stats have been very similar to Flacco's, without the accomplishments and records Flacco has achieved.

Luck has the best player in the league type of potential and 2014 showed this, which was a better season than many quarterbacks will have in their career. 

If he came into the league with more than one veteran pass catcher and had a decent offensive line to speak of, he'd be tearing it up. Hell, put him in Flacco's spot in 2014 and he'd have a very, very good season, probably better than what he had.

[allblackraven]

5 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I don't even know what I'd do with that much money. Not to mention the signing bonus was over $30M

I'll provide sound advice for 10% and we'll both be happy!

[BmoreBird22]

16 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

Luck only put up the numbers because of his strong supporting cast as well. Hilton and Wayne were great compliments and they had two solid tight ends. They also had no running game so they had to throw the ball. Which is why Luck has a bunch of interceptions which is why I agree.

When Andrew Luck came into the league in 2012, Reggie Wayne was 34 years old and TY Hilton was a third round rookie. The two tight ends you're speaking of, Dwyane Allen and Coby Fleener, were also rookies. He had a rookie running back behind him. I think he had five rookie pass catchers and only three veterans. 

He's had nothing near the offensive line that Flacco has had. I wanna say that prior to his injury, Luck had 28 different offensive lineman starting for him, and that's with Costanzo not missing games.

Also, he had a bunch of interceptions from Bruce Arians offense. It's a deep, vertical style offense that is major risk vs reward. With a terrible offensive line and some unpolished, new weapons, it really wasn't a recipe for success. He cut down on the interceptions big time the very next year when he had Pep Hamiton and a west coast offense.

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, allblackraven said:

I'll provide sound advice for 10% and we'll both be happy!

At that point, I'd be giving a huge chunk to charity. Probably invest most of it. I mean, damn, I'd be set for life.

[BmoreBird22]

9 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

I personally believe Luck is more of a gun slinger in the Favre mold and is a better running QB than Flacco. Otherwise, Flacco imo is a better QB than Luck is. Both lack weapons but Flacco has done a lot more in his career than Luck has thus far. Maybe when we drill down to individual stats, Luck looks better on paper, but where franchise winning or losing is concerned Flacco is just as good if not better than Luck is right now.

This is exactly how I view Luck. I think a lot of people were expecting Aaron Rodgers type precision, but he came in and just slung it all around with no real fear of the risk he was taking at times.

Don't get me wrong (because of any of the above comments): I am very happy to have Flacco and I am very glad Baltimore is not Cleveland with their QB graveyard, but I do think Luck is better.

[BmoreBird22]

8 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

I think Russell made Golden Tate and now Doug Balwin to elevate their game to another level.  

I dont remember looking at Baldwin before 2015 and said "yeah he is one of the best WR out there right now"   Nope.   Soon as Tate left, Russell found a way to make a rapport with Baldwin and his production got immensely better.

Baldwin's TD from 2014 to 2015 went from 3 TDs to 14TD in 2015.   Fourteen.   

The awkward moment when Golden Tate wasn't on the Seahawk's roster in 2014...

Also, I think it's important to remember that Doug Baldwin had a stretch of four games where he scored 10 touchdowns. 10 TOUCHDOWNS in FOUR GAMES. Also important to remember is that three of those teams ranked 19th or lower in terms of TD's allowed in 2015 and none ranked in the top 10.

Edited July 1, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[allblackraven]

6 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The awkward moment when Golden Tate wasn't on the Seahawk's roster in 2014...

Also, I think it's important to remember that Doug Baldwin had a stretch of four games where he scored 10 touchdowns. 10 TOUCHDOWNS in FOUR GAMES. Also important to remember is that three of those teams ranked 19th or lower in terms of TD's allowed in 2015 and none ranked in the top 10.

Too funny.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

41 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I don't even know what I'd do with that much money. Not to mention the signing bonus was over $30M

Answer for me is easy. Take about half of that and buy the house my father currently lives in(goes for 3 million Bay Area prices), and lease BMW 7 series every few years(I don't see a Lambo as practical, I've driven one, never really want one), and take half of the money and put it towards potential kids college funds. Then use the rest of the money wisely, nothing too lavish after buying the house and car. The other half of the money I didn't spend? Investment it wisely to make more money. 

 

45 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Luck has the best player in the league type of potential and 2014 showed this, which was a better season than many quarterbacks will have in their career. 

If he came into the league with more than one veteran pass catcher and had a decent offensive line to speak of, he'd be tearing it up. Hell, put him in Flacco's spot in 2014 and he'd have a very, very good season, probably better than what he had.

I don't disagree with you. I honestly have Luck in my rankings over Flacco. If you were to put Flacco into Luck's position he'd probably struggle in some capacity. Not many QBs could succeed. For the love of god please give him an oline. Thanks. 

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Answer for me is easy. Take about half of that and buy the house my father currently lives in(goes for 3 million Bay Area prices), and lease BMW 7 series every few years(I don't see a Lambo as practical, I've driven one, never really want one), and take half of the money and put it towards potential kids college funds. Then use the rest of the money wisely, nothing too lavish after buying the house and car. The other half of the money I didn't spend? Investment it wisely to make more money. 

 

I don't disagree with you. I honestly have Luck in my rankings over Flacco. If you were to put Flacco into Luck's position he'd probably struggle in some capacity. Not many QBs could succeed. For the love of god please give him an oline. Thanks. 

I'd by a Ferrari and probably a nice house and be set. It just amazes me that so many football players file for bankruptcy (which isn't necessarily being broke) and just go so out of control because I can't even think of how to use that much money outside of a couple big buys which would hardly make a dent in the total money.

It amazes me that Ryan Grigson hasn't gotten fired. At least they grabbed Ryan Kelly and Jack Mewhort is coming along, but that still leaves two huge holes on the line that are ultra leaky.

[Winchester]

Luck is eventually the best qb in the league. The Colts are a 4 win team with joe flacco and I actually like Joe cool as a franchise qb. Lucks oline is terrible!! His WRs are terrible.He makes Hilton better than he really is. Luck has taken a pounding like no qb ever has behind that oline and incompetent gm!! He takes ferocious  hits and says good job to the defense Crying Cam Newton sobs to the officials and never takes the hits luck has absorbed standing in the rush. The gm is a total moron!! Watched Trent Richardson in the nfl for 2 years and trades a round 1pick for a total bust. Then spends big on aged Johnson and Gore who were over their prime and clearly no longer above average.  Not to mention the offensive coordinators system is very vanilla and predictable. Luck was playing hurt before his big injury was announced. His shoulder was clearly hurting. He hit his olineman in the back several times before he went on i.r. you don't see that from Matt Schaub much less Andrew luck.  How is it the gm has a job??

[usmccharles]

3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I'd by a Ferrari and probably a nice house and be set. It just amazes me that so many football players file for bankruptcy (which isn't necessarily being broke) and just go so out of control because I can't even think of how to use that much money outside of a couple big buys which would hardly make a dent in the total money.

IMO, its not really about the big purchases they make, its more about the people around them.  Traveling with a group of ten, footing the bill for everyone, going to clubs, private jets, etc.  Its not too many times you hear about the big contract guys going broke, its normally the middle of the pack guys, unless there is special circumstances, ie Vick. 

ESPN did a 30 for 30 called broke, its really good.  Its obvious, most of these kids come from poverty, some were homeless at a point, didn't have food, drug addict parents etc...so its not a surprise when they get millions of dollars as a 19-22 year old kid that they have no money managing skills. 

[Tank 92]

11 hours ago, flynismo said:

I think that's the least of our worries...the addition of Wallace and Watson is going to take a big load off of SSS, and the rest of the guys as well. I don't think any one guy will have a particularly impressive season the way SSS was on pace for last year. And if Perriman actually sees the field this year, things will get very interesting indeed.

I hate to utter the words, but with some good fortune we could be loaded with more receiving talent than can we can get on the field. Add in Aiken, Crock and possibly Pitta and that's a pretty impressive stable of targets.

[BmoreBird22]

9 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

I hate to utter the words, but with some good fortune we could be loaded with more receiving talent than can we can get on the field. Add in Aiken, Crock and possibly Pitta and that's a pretty impressive stable of targets.

On paper, there isn't one singularly elite target, but the diverse ability anf roles they'll all fill could make this a very good offense.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

On paper, there isn't one singularly elite target, but the diverse ability anf roles they'll all fill could make this a very good offense.

Yea, I dont think any one target is going to even put up 1k yards... but we could legitimately have 4-5 guys in the 700-900 range.

We dont have many, if any, targets that would likely be a #1 on most teams. But we have 4 WRs that, if healthy, would be good to among the best #2 WRs in the league. And we have 4 TEs that would be the #1 TE on several teams, and all 4 would be top 5 number 2 TEs. And that's not including Juice, Camp, Moore, Reynolds, Butler, or Boyle who could have success depending on opportunity.

And id rather have the depth across the board that we have than one dominant target with a big drop off afterward. We should always have 1 or 2 mismatches on the field at all times. We should be able to spread the ball around, and on any given play, any given game any one player has the potential to go off and dominate... just let the match ups dictate who is the go to guy.

And our diversity is great too. Fear us beating you deep? We can hurt you with SSS, Aiken, Camp, the TE's, and the RBs underneath and in the flats, or pound the rock on the ground. Crowd the box to stop that, and we can send Wallace, Perriman, and Moore flying on the outside or Crockett up the seam.

We can spread guys out with multiple TEs where if you go big to stop the potential run, our TEs can beat linebackers to get open easy. Go small to cover and the TEs will easily block the perimeter for potential big gains on the ground.

We basically have the counter to almost any punch a defense could throw.

[ravensdan]

15 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

How did Russell elevate them when one has been far better elsewhere and the other has produced the same average numbers in steady reliable fashion with him and still did as a youngin before him.. Makes no sense. Baldwin's rookie season prior to wilson was wayyyy better than the first year Wilson came, and that rookie year matched all but this outlier in 2015.

As far as flacco to marlon, he elevated Marlon because he's a good qb. We had no run game and a horrible line and wr corps and a TE group consisting of Dallas Clark and Dallas Clark.. He was flinging spoonfuls into closed mouths and they still got fed. As God awful as we were that year, do you forget that we were still a game out of a playoff spot and we may have made it had flacco not been seriously injured.. 

 

Flacco, as inconsistent as he's been at times, always has been and always will be the sole reason we are competitive. We were in nearly every game we lost this year until the last second, it was literally a historic feat, one different play per game could've had us at 13-3 And that was largely because of flacco And his ability to slowly and steadily bring us back from an early deficit and lead late game drives. We choked in the red zone when he depended on his guys and they failed him, but he still made the throws necessary to win a lot of games and we were let down for other reasons. 

 

You're flacco bashing has become memeworthy at this point.

Great points. It's not really debatable Flacco is a top QB in the league. Can't believe this topic is still going. 

[Edgar]

14 hours ago, Winchester said:

Luck is eventually the best qb in the league. The Colts are a 4 win team with joe flacco and I actually like Joe cool as a franchise qb. Lucks oline is terrible!! His WRs are terrible.He makes Hilton better than he really is. Luck has taken a pounding like no qb ever has behind that oline and incompetent gm!! He takes ferocious  hits and says good job to the defense Crying Cam Newton sobs to the officials and never takes the hits luck has absorbed standing in the rush. The gm is a total moron!! Watched Trent Richardson in the nfl for 2 years and trades a round 1pick for a total bust. Then spends big on aged Johnson and Gore who were over their prime and clearly no longer above average.  Not to mention the offensive coordinators system is very vanilla and predictable. Luck was playing hurt before his big injury was announced. His shoulder was clearly hurting. He hit his olineman in the back several times before he went on i.r. you don't see that from Matt Schaub much less Andrew luck.  How is it the gm has a job??

Agree with most of what you said. However, Luck's pronouncements of, "good hit",etc. Made toward the opponent are simply a passive aggressive manner of saying something to the effect of, "that didn't hurt" " that's all you got".

Don't look at that any other way. He might well be a good sport but that's not why he says such things.

[Edgar]

15 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

How did Russell elevate them when one has been far better elsewhere and the other has produced the same average numbers in steady reliable fashion with him and still did as a youngin before him.. Makes no sense. Baldwin's rookie season prior to wilson was wayyyy better than the first year Wilson came, and that rookie year matched all but this outlier in 2015.

As far as flacco to marlon, he elevated Marlon because he's a good qb. We had no run game and a horrible line and wr corps and a TE group consisting of Dallas Clark and Dallas Clark.. He was flinging spoonfuls into closed mouths and they still got fed. As God awful as we were that year, do you forget that we were still a game out of a playoff spot and we may have made it had flacco not been seriously injured.. 

 

Flacco, as inconsistent as he's been at times, always has been and always will be the sole reason we are competitive. We were in nearly every game we lost this year until the last second, it was literally a historic feat, one different play per game could've had us at 13-3 And that was largely because of flacco And his ability to slowly and steadily bring us back from an early deficit and lead late game drives. We choked in the red zone when he depended on his guys and they failed him, but he still made the throws necessary to win a lot of games and we were let down for other reasons. 

 

You're flacco bashing has become memeworthy at this point.

" always been and always will be the SOLE reason....." is a stretch(putting it mildly).

I actually think Flacco took major steps in 2013 in terms of pocket awareness and movement in the pocket and that us sometimes missed. I wonder sometimes about that cheap shot against Detroit. I don't think he is quite as willing to hang in and take a hit since then.

I have recently watched a lot of 2015 ravens. Joe was not good last year and revisiting those games confirmed it. At times the way he passes is stunning and so impressive. Almost beautiful mechanically.

But he was wildly inconsistent. His decision making was often stupefying and frustrating.

I'm in the camp that figures Joe can lead us to another ring. This is a year where he HAS to be consistent  however.

[OUravensfan]

On July 1, 2016 at 0:29 AM, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Answer for me is easy. Take about half of that and buy the house my father currently lives in(goes for 3 million Bay Area prices), and lease BMW 7 series every few years(I don't see a Lambo as practical, I've driven one, never really want one), and take half of the money and put it towards potential kids college funds. Then use the rest of the money wisely, nothing too lavish after buying the house and car. The other half of the money I didn't spend? Investment it wisely to make more money. 

 

I don't disagree with you. I honestly have Luck in my rankings over Flacco. If you were to put Flacco into Luck's position he'd probably struggle in some capacity. Not many QBs could succeed. For the love of god please give him an oline. Thanks. 

AQ Shipley is terrible, played for Flacco and Luck

[Winchester]

On 7/1/2016 at 3:48 PM, Edgar said:

" always been and always will be the SOLE reason....." is a stretch(putting it mildly).

I actually think Flacco took major steps in 2013 in terms of pocket awareness and movement in the pocket and that us sometimes missed. I wonder sometimes about that cheap shot against Detroit. I don't think he is quite as willing to hang in and take a hit since then.

I have recently watched a lot of 2015 ravens. Joe was not good last year and revisiting those games confirmed it. At times the way he passes is stunning and so impressive. Almost beautiful mechanically.

But he was wildly inconsistent. His decision making was often stupefying and frustrating.

I'm in the camp that figures Joe can lead us to another ring. This is a year where he HAS to be consistent  however.

You just illustrated how Joe cool can throw as beautiful and accurate a throw as any qb in the league. However joe needs his time to scan and throw comfortably. You give Joe cool a dominant oline that allows him a comfy pocket and he can and will throw with pinpoint accuracy, touch and anticipation. And he will take the hit and throw with accuracy. He just needs a little more time than Brady Rodgers manning Rivers Roethlisberger and Brees to scan and find the open guy. Boldin and Pitta played crazy good in the championship run. But many don't realize McKinney got in shape really fast to hold left tackle and dominate which allowed the oline to play their best positions and the oline totally dominated. And Joe cool played at a level never seen b4 and as good as any playoff an ever.

[rmcjacket23]

On 6/30/2016 at 5:56 PM, Ravenseconbeast said:

I can't believe no one is reading what I'm writing.  

 

I was putting stock on Russell Wilson.  RUSSELL elevated golden and Baldwin.  Not the other way around.   

 

I was trying to explain that Russell is a 'good QB' BC he knows how to  rapport with whomever wr he has, whether that be Tate or Baldwin.

Not just TDs btw, all category of stats.

Flacco did elevate Marlon's game BC yes he made a rapport with marlon, but it was more of a anamoly since it was for 1year and not on consistent basis.

But again, not sure how you can make the argument that Wilson elevated Tate when Tate got a LOT better when he left.

I mean I suppose from a YPC standpoint Tate was better in Seattle, but his receptions and production essentially doubled after he left, and that was when he went from being the clear #1 in Seattle to the clear #2 in Detroit.

 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

6 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

But again, not sure how you can make the argument that Wilson elevated Tate when Tate got a LOT better when he left.

I mean I suppose from a YPC standpoint Tate was better in Seattle, but his receptions and production essentially doubled after he left, and that was when he went from being the clear #1 in Seattle to the clear #2 in Detroit.

 

Not only that, but as has been pointed out to him several times - Baldwin's production this past year was an anomaly as well. In fact, his rookie year prior to Russell being there was I believe his 2nd most productive season... and at the very least right on par with what he has done with Wilson up to this point (excluding the 2nd half of last season when he just went off).

So if Marlon's 1 season is an anomaly... how can you make the case that Baldwins one season is due to an established rapport??? Makes no sense. In fact Baldwins production dipped dramatically in his 1st season with Wilson (obviously with a rookie QB im not blaming Wilson necessarily) but then only recovered the following 2-3 years to be on par with what he did in his rookie season without Wilson.

Tate's improved dramatically since leaving Wilson (with less opportunity) and Baldwin steadily improved with Wilson but only back to the level of production he showed in his rookie season. If anything, that seems like an argument against Russel - not for.

[rmcjacket23]

37 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Not only that, but as has been pointed out to him several times - Baldwin's production this past year was an anomaly as well. In fact, his rookie year prior to Russell being there was I believe his 2nd most productive season... and at the very least right on par with what he has done with Wilson up to this point (excluding the 2nd half of last season when he just went off).

So if Marlon's 1 season is an anomaly... how can you make the case that Baldwins one season is due to an established rapport??? Makes no sense. In fact Baldwins production dipped dramatically in his 1st season with Wilson (obviously with a rookie QB im not blaming Wilson necessarily) but then only recovered the following 2-3 years to be on par with what he did in his rookie season without Wilson.

Tate's improved dramatically since leaving Wilson (with less opportunity) and Baldwin steadily improved with Wilson but only back to the level of production he showed in his rookie season. If anything, that seems like an argument against Russel - not for.

Literally the only difference between Baldwin with Tate and Baldwin without Tate is volume. Other than that, they are essentially the same player.

From 2011-2013, when Baldwin was the #2 WR in Seattle, he averaged 14.9 YPC, but with only 2.8 receptions per game.

From 2014-2015, when Baldwin was the #1 WR in Seattle, he averaged 13.1 YPC, but he caught 4.5 receptions per game.

So when Golden Tate leaves, Baldwin actually becomes LESS effective from a YPC standpoint by almost 2 yards per reception, yet he's catching almost 2 balls per game more.

So, again, its volume. Baldwin is more effective because he's catching more passes as the now defacto #1 WR. In the last two seasons, Baldwin has 144 receptions. The next closest Seahawk over that span is Jermaine Kearse, with 87. That's 57 more receptions than the next closest Seahawk over a two year period. 

[Wisdom]

Mr. David Carr your the man indeed Flacco is not only overrated but overpaid.  I echo your sentiments on Flacco.  I would take Luck in a heartbeat.

[flynismo]

1 hour ago, Wisdom said:

Mr. David Carr your the man indeed Flacco is not only overrated but overpaid.  I echo your sentiments on Flacco.  I would take Luck in a heartbeat.

It's "you're the man". 

Your the man makes absolutely no sense.

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, flynismo said:

It's "you're the man". 

Your the man makes absolutely no sense.

I know who you were trying to quote and it was not me, but I will say this- don't bother. Just look at his picture. 

[allblackraven]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I know who you were trying to quote and it was not me, but I will say this- don't bother. Just look at his picture. 

Definitely the member here whose name makes by far the least sense.

Edited July 8, 2016 by allblackraven

[flynismo]

1 hour ago, allblackraven said:

Definitely the member here whose name make by far the least sense.

[flynismo]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I know who you were trying to quote and it was not me, but I will say this- don't bother. Just look at his picture. 

He should use Flacco's picture from a couple months later instead:

 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

2 hours ago, Wisdom said:

Mr. David Carr your the man indeed Flacco is not only overrated but overpaid.  I echo your sentiments on Flacco.  I would take Luck in a heartbeat.

Riveting analysis. 

The Carr and Luck conversations aren't even related. 

And if Flaccos overpaid... Are you saying you'd prefer to save a couple million and have a Bradford/Osweiler level QB??

Bc from now on any QB under the age of 32 that's won even a couple games is going to get near Flacco money. 

In 2-3 years Flacco will still be a top 10 QB and prob won't be making top 10 money. Especially with the new precedents set by Luck, Brock and Bradford this offseason. Flaccos contract will be among the best in terms of value so long as he returns ok from injury. I expect a big jump now that he has weapons for the first time in his career and an offensive system he knows... But even if he stays even it'll be a great looking deal in a year or 2.