NFL.com's David Carr says Flacco is Number 3 overrated QB

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

4 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

Joe is very frustrating during the regular season because we have seen what he can do during the playoffs 

I agree. Like I said Joe is average or slightly above average during the regular season but in the playoffs he is elite.

[BmoreBird22]

4 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

Joe is very frustrating during the regular season because we have seen what he can do during the playoffs 

I won't pretend to know what the reason is because I was never playing for something that high stakes, so I played every minute like it was my last.

However, in the NFL, you have a 16 game where usually only teams with around 9 or 10 wins will make it, and in some cases, 10 wins isn't even good enough, so taking chances isn't as likely. When you get in the playoffs, though, and every game could be your last, you're going to leave it on the line. Just go out there and put it all on the line, take those chances, leave nothing on the field.

That and play calling seems to get a lot more creative and aggressive in the playoffs.

[Winchester]

38 minutes ago, ravensdan said:

I think Brady brees Rodgers are one group. Then you have luck Wilson Newton Palmer romo Ben joe Eli as close. Dalton bortkes and others I put in the next group. 

You can not say for sure Joe is better than Bortles Carr and Dalton. All are coming off seasons better than Joe flacco's season. And you can not put Joe flacco with ben. I don't put Eli with him as well. And Wilson and Newton have to have great seasons again to be with ben. This season will brighten the pic of who is better out of Joe cool, Bortles,Dalton, Carr, Newton and wilson. I like Joe cool but to be honest I would bet On Bortles coming out of this one touch better than Joe. Bortles is looking better every game. He could be better than Wilson, Newton and Eli as well. I forgot bout Rivers. He is a touch better than Joe as well. He has done it longer than Wilson and bortles

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I won't pretend to know what the reason is because I was never playing for something that high stakes, so I played every minute like it was my last.

However, in the NFL, you have a 16 game where usually only teams with around 9 or 10 wins will make it, and in some cases, 10 wins isn't even good enough, so taking chances isn't as likely. When you get in the playoffs, though, and every game could be your last, you're going to leave it on the line. Just go out there and put it all on the line, take those chances, leave nothing on the field.

That and play calling seems to get a lot more creative and aggressive in the playoffs.

You make some good points.

[jazz1988]

57 minutes ago, Winchester said:

You can not say for sure Joe is better than Bortles Carr and Dalton. All are coming off seasons better than Joe flacco's season. And you can not put Joe flacco with ben. I don't put Eli with him as well. And Wilson and Newton have to have great seasons again to be with ben. This season will brighten the pic of who is better out of Joe cool, Bortles,Dalton, Carr, Newton and wilson. I like Joe cool but to be honest I would bet On Bortles coming out of this one touch better than Joe. Bortles is looking better every game. He could be better than Wilson, Newton and Eli as well. I forgot bout Rivers. He is a touch better than Joe as well. He has done it longer than Wilson and bortles

You have always preached how winning championships and getting to the super is all that matters. I rather have a quarterback that plays elite in the playoffs than the regular season which is what Joe  Flacco has done unlike Dalton,Bortles,and Carr.

 

Flacco doesn't have the flashy stats but he also hasnt been surrounded with a offensive coordinator that  support such a cause at least until now .

[Winchester]

8 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

You have always preached how winning championships and getting to the super is all that matters. I rather have a quarterback that plays elite in the playoffs than the regular season which is what Joe  Flacco has done unlike Dalton,Bortles,and Carr.

 

Flacco doesn't have the flashy stats but he also hasnt been surrounded with a offensive coordinator that  support such a cause at least until now .

That is a team effort. That is like saying you would prefer Dilfer (who I actually really like) or brad Johnson over Marino and the elite qbs on bad teams. The ravens team step up their games in the playoffs. Boldin Pitta pulled in a lot of throw up for grabs. Manning lost all those playoff games while he was an all time elite qb. Then won a championship when his arm was the weakest in the league. Elway never won til he was no longer in his prime. 

[ravensdan]

1 hour ago, Winchester said:

You can not say for sure Joe is better than Bortles Carr and Dalton. All are coming off seasons better than Joe flacco's season. And you can not put Joe flacco with ben. I don't put Eli with him as well. And Wilson and Newton have to have great seasons again to be with ben. This season will brighten the pic of who is better out of Joe cool, Bortles,Dalton, Carr, Newton and wilson. I like Joe cool but to be honest I would bet On Bortles coming out of this one touch better than Joe. Bortles is looking better every game. He could be better than Wilson, Newton and Eli as well. I forgot bout Rivers. He is a touch better than Joe as well. He has done it longer than Wilson and bortles

I think you're overrating Carr a lot. I haven't seen enough from him to go in with any of these guys honestly. Only a few good games. Ben and Joe are quite similar. Bens lack of availability absolutely hurts his team and should count against him. Both raise their level of play for big games. Dalton has to raise his play level in big games to advance. I think it's fair to pit that group of like 10 guys each with pluses and minuses capable of leading their team to the big victories. 

[Winchester]

3 hours ago, ravensdan said:

I think you're overrating Carr a lot. I haven't seen enough from him to go in with any of these guys honestly. Only a few good games. Ben and Joe are quite similar. Bens lack of availability absolutely hurts his team and should count against him. Both raise their level of play for big games. Dalton has to raise his play level in big games to advance. I think it's fair to pit that group of like 10 guys each with pluses and minuses capable of leading their team to the big victories. 

Carr played very well with good numbers. If Carr has a big year again he is one of the better qbs.

[ravensdan]

58 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Carr played very well with good numbers. If Carr has a big year again he is one of the better qbs.

Carr didn't play well through the whole year. I still question him. We will see if he improved. Luck also played very poorly but I still believe he'll turn it around. 

[Winchester]

Luck was hurt before the big injury. Several of his throws hit his lineman in the back.

[Ravenseconbeast]

On 6/22/2016 at 0:31 AM, Deflated Football said:

As Ravens fans we've never had anything better or even as good as Joe. Excuse us for being "homers" and believing in our Super Bowl MVP QB. I assume you thought Troy Smith would've started a dynasty if given the chance?

Nope...not sure Troy Smith came out from...

Just to justify Flacco's worth, you had to pick the lowest of the denominator to excuse his overrated status.   He is pretty much on par with likes of Mark butfumble Sanchez.  Except we were the suckers to pay him to be one of the best...TWICE.    What is his #s like after he got *paid*?  

I can almost guarantee you most homers will have another excuse lined up if Flacco underperforms once again this upcomming year or even the year after that.   

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

16 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Nope...not sure Troy Smith came out from...

Just to justify Flacco's worth, you had to pick the lowest of the denominator to excuse his overrated status.   He is pretty much on par with likes of Mark butfumble Sanchez.  Except we were the suckers to pay him to be one of the best...TWICE.    What is his #s like after he got *paid*?  

I can almost guarantee you most homers will have another excuse lined up if Flacco underperforms once again this upcomming year or even the year after that.   

Glorified backup Brock Osweiler just got paid 72 million over four years to be the starting QB in Houston. Sorry, but that contract is far worse than Flacco's, who has actually won big games in his career. 

 

We get it dude, you hate Flacco. But that contract right there shows how difficult it is to find a good QB. Houston has tried for years, and have failed miserably. If anything, Osweiler based off of that contract is the most overrated QB in the NFL other than Cutler. Even if his numbers suck this season, we gotta stick with him and not because of that contract. Flacco isn't elite. But I consider him top ten despite his admittedly maddening inconsistent play because Flacco has the it factor. You'll laugh at that but the dude shows up consistently for big games. The buttfumble has never, EVER, reached Flacco's best play, and never will. 

 

Even if you hate Flacco, to compare him to Sanchez is beyond idiotic. Comparing him to Cutler is foolish, who got a contract that's worth more depsite doing a hell of a lot less. Two seasons ago, Cutler had an offense with Jeffery, an all pro, Marshall, an all pro, Bennett, and Forte, a decent offensive line, and a defense that honestly wasn't the issue, still sucked. Flacco, despite having a hell of a lot less than that, has had far more success. Oh, and let's use another example of a guy who's more overrated. 

 

Over the past two seasons, we'll use 2014 because he was healthy for the postseason for that one, Andy Dalton has had two good RBs, three good WRs, a consistently good oline, and a great defense. And the Bengals still lost to the abysmal defenseless colts, who later got slaughtered by a real QB that same postseason.

 

Conversley, Flacco with 35 year old Steve Smith, a 31 year old Owen Daniels, an injured Torrey Smith, and a journeyman running back who was a product of Kubiak, walked into Gillete Stadium who had a defense with the likes of Revis, an all pro, Browner, who was good that year, and McCourtey, who is great.  With a front 7 that included great players such as Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins, Akeem Ayers, Hightower, and I think Mayo if he was healthy, and he still threw four TDs. You'll probably counter with "but he threw two interceptions", which I will say fine. One of them(the first one, to McCourtey) was his fault, but the second one was a contested ball up to to Torrey Smith which he refused to fight for. Sure, you could argue that "the short pass over the middle was killing them all game, and then we got greedy". But if that's a WR who fights for it, it's at worst an incompletion. 

But this argument is moot. Despite me using logic and reasoning to justify that Flacco is not overrated, you're opinion won't change, and that's fine. But Flacco is a proven commodity and he's won big games. And market value determined that he was worth the money because if he were to hit the market, I wouldn't be surprised if a team like Cleveland, or Houston, or Buffalo ponied up more..  And quite frankly, if those three teams had Flacco they'd probably be playoff caliber. Something that would not happen with Cutler. 

 

But sure, he's overrated. 

Edited June 27, 2016 by LosT_in_TranSlatioN

[Deflated Football]

7 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Glorified backup Brock Osweiler just got paid 72 million over four years to be the starting QB in Houston. Sorry, but that contract is far worse than Flacco's, who has actually won big games in his career. 

 

We get it dude, you hate Flacco. But that contract right there shows how difficult it is to find a good QB. Houston has tried for years, and have failed miserably. If anything, Osweiler based off of that contract is the most overrated QB in the NFL other than Cutler. Even if his numbers suck this season, we gotta stick with him and not because of that contract. Flacco isn't elite. But I consider him top ten despite his admittedly maddening inconsistent play because Flacco has the it factor. You'll laugh at that but the dude shows up consistently for big games. The buttfumble has never, EVER, reached Flacco's best play, and never will. 

 

Even if you hate Flacco, to compare him to Sanchez is beyond idiotic. Comparing him to Cutler is foolish, who got a contract that's worth more depsite doing a hell of a lot less. 

But this argument is moot. Despite me using logic and reasoning to justify that Flacco is not overrated, you're opinion won't change, and that's fine. But Flacco is a proven commodity and he's won big games. And market value determined that he was worth the money because if he were to hit the market, I wouldn't be surprised if a team like Cleveland, or Houston, or Buffalo ponied up more..  And quite frankly, if those three teams had Flacco they'd probably be playoff caliber. Something that would not happen with Cutler. 

 

But sure, he's overrated. 

Nice. Thanks for this 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

5 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

Nice. Thanks for this 

I just added more. If you want my opinon about Flacco, he's good, but maddeningly inconsistent during the regular season, but he's great in big games. To say he's overrated is a joke. Most people freaking hate him because they live in the fantasy football age. Which I have come to hate.  Matt Stafford is more overrated than Flacco is as well, but he puts up better statistics so people think he's better. 

 

Stats aren't everything. 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

13 hours ago, Winchester said:

Begin by listing the qbs better than Joe cool, worse then the ones that are close call. The qbs that are close are Bortles, Daulton, Carr, Eli manning. Better are Brady,Rodgers,Brees,luck,Wilson,palmer,Romo, and Newton although injuries could have caught up to Romo and Palmer so those dudes you could put in the maybe category. There are lots of variables. Over last couple drafts 4 talented qbs have come into the league so the qbs that are close with joe cool could change.

I would not put Palmer, Wilson, and Romo ahead of Flacco. Wilson and Romo I have on par with Flacco and Palmer has a better offensive supporting cast. Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Luck, Newton, Ben, and then I got Flacco. Bortles and Carr might be better one day, but that's what I've got

[flynismo]

5 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Nope...not sure Troy Smith came out from...

Just to justify Flacco's worth, you had to pick the lowest of the denominator to excuse his overrated status.   He is pretty much on par with likes of Mark butfumble Sanchez.  Except we were the suckers to pay him to be one of the best...TWICE.    What is his #s like after he got *paid*?  

I can almost guarantee you most homers will have another excuse lined up if Flacco underperforms once again this upcomming year or even the year after that.   

Well, a little common sense is in order. Flacco rarely underperforms. He did in 2013, and if you want to count last year, then 2015. Which means 6 out of 8 years he did not underperform. Common sense should dictate that if his performance deviates from the established norm, there must be a reason for it, right? Of course, to guys like you who hate him, those reasons are seen as excuses, but that's cool. Your opinion is the vast minority, and is irrelevant since he'll be here five years from now.

[Winchester]

 My opinion on Joe is he is good enough. But to be honest with you most people in my community and at work say he needs to step his game up or ravens should find a qb if Joe fronts anything not on par with his 2014 performance

[Tank 92]

5 hours ago, flynismo said:

Well, a little common sense is in order. Flacco rarely underperforms. He did in 2013, and if you want to count last year, then 2015. Which means 6 out of 8 years he did not underperform. Common sense should dictate that if his performance deviates from the established norm, there must be a reason for it, right? Of course, to guys like you who hate him, those reasons are seen as excuses, but that's cool. Your opinion is the vast minority, and is irrelevant since he'll be here five years from now.

I wasn't going to comment on the banter, but since you did I'll add a tidbit. The horrid offensive performance in 2013 was due to the worst O line and run game in the history of the team. No QB could have performed well under the circumstances.  

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

On 6/26/2016 at 7:17 AM, Sami84 said:

you kidding? outside of 2010 and 2014 and his magical post season run in 2012 hes been bad or at best average. For the amount hes being paid his overall play has been an abomination..

we've seen guys like Big Ben and Tom Brady when transitioning to a new OC (big ben with Haley), or when they lacked weapons due to just not having them, injury or suspension (Tom Brady for a long stretch in 2015 and parts of 2014; Big Ben throughout his career though its been rare he hasnt had weapons). Aaron Rodgers looked decidedly worse last year without Jordy Nelson. Joe's never had even 1 weapon of that caliber or AB, Sanders, Gronk, Moss, Welker, etc...

I do agree that Joe has struggled for consistency especially in the regular season, and has games that are down right bad. But no other QB thats routinely deemed better than him has had to deal with the turnover at OC with new systems every year (this is the 1st offseason where he'll have the same OC and offense as the year before since 2011). 4 straight years (in the years where we've seen the top QBs take the big next step to where they are now) with a new offense and coordinator. Brady, Big Ben, Brees, Rodgers, Eli, etc... were equally as bad or inconsistent in their first 4 years. It wasnt until they settled into their 5th years where they had consistently the same offense that these guys jumped to the top.

And, i dont know that theres a single QB considered even average that has had worse weapons than Joe. He had a couple decent possession guys in his early years, and then his best group in 2012 we saw what he could do with a decent offense in place. He's never had consistency like the other guys (same weapon(s) for years in a row to build chemistry and a Go To) and other than 1 season by SSS hes never had a guy able to produce on the level of Wallace, Sanders, AB, Jordy, Jennings, Gates, Gronk, Moss, Welker, Plaxico, Santonio, Cobb, Cooks, Colston, Keenan Allen, Vincent Jackson, Dez Bryant, TO, Witten, Demaryius Thomas, Decker, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, etc....

The guys that are frequently viewed as better than Flacco have always had at least 1 (and usually 2 or more) guy(s) of that caliber. Much easier to be successful when you have a weapon that pulls coverage/double teams to open the rest of the field up AND can still make plays when in those situations.

And then there are guys often considered on Flacco's level who have weapons of that caliber (Dalton - Green, Eifert... Cutler - Thomas, Marshall, Alshon.... Tannehill - Landry, and now Parker.... Cousins/RG3 - Jackson, Garcon, Jordan.... Foles/Vick - Desean, Maclin.... Eli - Nicks, Cruz, Odell....). Take away their weapons, or give their weapons to Flacco and I guarantee he distances himself from that middle pack and becomes a hands down top 6-10 guy in everyones eyes.

 

I know those who dont like Flacco call this "homerism" or "excuse-making." But, please refute it. You can prob nitpick and say "well Big Ben made Wallace and Flacco hasnt made anyone" except Bens still had AB, Sanders, Plaxico, and Santonio who have all had great success with other QBs; and Torrey/Aiken for Flacco. Or you could say Mason and Boldin, but Boldin wasnt a fit for the offense under Cameron so his potential was wasted most of his time here and he didnt get to grow with Mason, and anyways both of those guys would be toward the bottom end of that list of WRs.

Now - this year Flacco is coming off injury, but if hes 100% healthy he finally has a decent set of skill players. Nice TEs, nice WRs, and nice RBs. Still no top end guys like all the others have, but theres enough that the lack of weapons cant be an excuse. If Flacco doesnt thrive and cement himself firmly in the top 5-8 QBs in the game over the next 2 years then I'll take issue. 

Until then, this is the first time in Joe's career that he's in an environment even relatively close to that of the QBs typically viewed as the best.... and of those QBs, when they've had to deal with situations similar to what Joe has had most of his career played to similar results - moments of the greatness theyre known for, but many underwhelming and poor results.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

11 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Nope...not sure Troy Smith came out from...

Just to justify Flacco's worth, you had to pick the lowest of the denominator to excuse his overrated status.   He is pretty much on par with likes of Mark butfumble Sanchez.  Except we were the suckers to pay him to be one of the best...TWICE.    What is his #s like after he got *paid*?  

I can almost guarantee you most homers will have another excuse lined up if Flacco underperforms once again this upcomming year or even the year after that.   

Mark Sanchez? Seriously. You'll see this year how stupid that statement is when Sanchez (if he even wins the job over an UDFA and a rookie) plays far worse than Flacco with a vastly superior roster around him.

Like I said, I get the people who want Flacco to be better. It's not wrong to look at things like stats, turnovers, and inconsistency during the regular season and want Joe to be better. It's fair.

The problem is, much like with your comment, the ones who tend to have that point of view go way too far the other direction and put Joe in the same category as Sanchez, Tannehill, Foles, Cutler, etc... 

 

We've had among the most sustained success in the NFL since Joe was drafted in '08. There's only been like 3 constants throughout that tenure and its Joe, Suggs, and Yanda. And Joe's the most impactful of those 3 as he has the ball in his hands every offensive snap. Thats not coincidence. Its fair to want more bc he's shown the ability to be better and more consistent. It's fair to wonder why he cant play in the regular season as well as he does in the post season. Its fair to question his decisions at times. And its fair to want your QB to play like a top 5 player all the time when he's being paid like a top 5 player.

But, throwing him in the bottom 5-10 is a joke. Saying hes been terrible or anything less than pretty darn good with flashes of being among the best - is just ignoring reality.

And the contract thing is tired. Get over it. In a perfect world, no, you dont pay a guy who's around Top 10 most of the time but has flirted with Top 5 play at times top 3 type money. But this isnt a perfect world - its the NFL... where top players rarely become available, so whoever the best in that FA period is get paid like theyre the best. And if you wont pay him that, someone else will in a heart beat. And in a league where QB play decides so much, and there are only a handful of QBs capable of getting the job done, the alternative is not something you want.

You may think you want it but you dont... ask the 49ers, Dolphins, Broncos, Jets, Browns, Bengals, Giants, Cheifs, Bears, Texans, Bills, Lions, Eagles, Redskins, Giants, and Rams if they would have happily signed Flacco for the same money. They would in a heart beat, have a similar QB for just as much if not more $, or just invested a top pick on a guy that they would be ecstatic if he turns into Flacco and will happily pay him when the time comes.

The Saints, Cowboys, Patriots, Steelers and Chargers may prefer their guy right now (who is making similar money to Joe) but in a couple years would love to have a Flacco they could pay $20m to take over once their guy retires.

And the Seahawks, Jags, Titans, Colts, Bucs, Raiders all have young promising QBs that theyre happily going to pay WAY more than Flacco (reportedly almost $7-10m/yr more than Flacco in Luck's case) for similar play (Bortles, Carr).... and wouldve gladly paid Flacco the money if they couldnt get the QB they wanted in the draft.

Rodgers is the one QB whose team wouldnt do it bc they have a better QB making around the same money with just as much of a future and got their QB years ago. But they all understand the value of the QB... if any of these guys went down for good, theyd all love to replace their guy with Flacco in a heart beat if he was available.

[jdynamite]

On 6/20/2016 at 4:11 PM, ravenwildman said:

David Carr, live on NFL.com said that Flacco is the number 3 overrated QB in the NFL because: even though his numbers look good, and he has the most top playoff stats, and a MVP superbowl ring....his play is mediocre..........WHAT????

Ah yes it's off season....release the media trolls....I guarantee that before the first preseason game all the "football analyst" will have the Steelers and Patriots as the AFC championship contenders.....here we go again!!!! lol  

That's exactly how I prefer it, it felt odd when Peter King gave the Ravens mad respect as his Super Bowl pick early last year. Then the team came out losing all those close games and most of the media like us fans felt hey they right there tough breaks in  close games, it's the Ravens they will grind out a playoff spot and make a little noise come playoff time.  

I don't it just always seemed like the team plays with more of edge, when they are disrespected by the media and overlooked, and yes they hear, see it and talk about the evidence is always heard in the mic'ed up audio over the years from guys like Suggs on the sidelines. Whether it be on Sound FX on NFLN, Inside the NFL, or The Turning Point, etc. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

You cant say give that to the WRs and Oline, when even though yes, the WRs played well - every QB considered better than Flacco routinely has that type of play from their WRs.

Joe's had that type of play once in his career, and its no shock that it coincided with the best stretch of play hes ever had. When Brady didnt have Gronk or Edelman he came down to earth last year. When Rodgers didnt have Jordy, he took a step back.

Youre right, give Joe a good line and some consistent weapons and he will show who he really is. And thats not the best QB in the game, but hes right there below that top tier.... who all have the luxury of top weapons throughout their career.

If you're going to evaluate QBs, then its got to be done within context. QB play is dependent upon the line, run game, play calling, scheme and weapons. A great QB can elevate the environment around him, but only so much. Joe hasnt had great weapons, has had one good OC (Trestman is trending toward being the 2nd), and even with how average our WR group looks this year its definitely the deepest if not the best he's had. If Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Romo, Luck, etc... had these WRs the talk would be how amazing they are for elevating them. Yet the narrative on Joe is he's not good enough bc he doesnt make them look like Jordy or Dez or Gronk. Thats the part that drives me nuts about Flacco's detractors. They dont evaluate on a level playing field.

[jdynamite]

3 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

You cant say give that to the WRs and Oline, when even though yes, the WRs played well - every QB considered better than Flacco routinely has that type of play from their WRs.

Joe's had that type of play once in his career, and its no shock that it coincided with the best stretch of play hes ever had. When Brady didnt have Gronk or Edelman he came down to earth last year. When Rodgers didnt have Jordy, he took a step back.

Youre right, give Joe a good line and some consistent weapons and he will show who he really is. And thats not the best QB in the game, but hes right there below that top tier.... who all have the luxury of top weapons throughout their career.

If you're going to evaluate QBs, then its got to be done within context. QB play is dependent upon the line, run game, play calling, scheme and weapons. A great QB can elevate the environment around him, but only so much. Joe hasnt had great weapons, has had one good OC (Trestman is trending toward being the 2nd), and even with how average our WR group looks this year its definitely the deepest if not the best he's had. If Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Romo, Luck, etc... had these WRs the talk would be how amazing they are for elevating them. Yet the narrative on Joe is he's not good enough bc he doesnt make them look like Jordy or Dez or Gronk. Thats the part that drives me nuts about Flacco's detractors. They dont evaluate on a level playing field.

* I felt last year ESPN and maybe the Fantasy Football fans more than anything kept up the Aaron Rodgers is struggling thing. Not having Jordy Nelson on the outside greatly affected the offense for that team. It eliminated the player that was often doubled, shifted receivers around etc. But Aaron Rodgers taking a step back was still more productive than a vast majority of QBs.

Rodgers play came down closer to Earth for once, but heck if that's a step back with shuffling WRs and OLine and a fat Lacy, I'll take that any day of the week. They signed James Jones a week before the season began and he posted career highs in yards, yds avg, & Tds a guy that was known for dropping passes, and now he can't get a team to sign him. 

 

Now I will agree when it comes to Flacco on these boards there has always been a lot of over the top whether it be for or against him. You will have some fans that might say the Lee Evans drop wasn't placed perfect ( because of pure Flacco disdain ), while some of the real Flacco lovers might give him a bit too much credit for some of Boldin's efforts to fight back to balls and snatch them. 

Like last season, people were actually saying put Schaub in he looked good during preseason... Like really?!

[Tiznut]

3 hours ago, Winchester said:

 My opinion on Joe is he is good enough. But to be honest with you most people in my community and at work say he needs to step his game up or ravens should find a qb if Joe fronts anything not on par with his 2014 performance

On one hand I do wanna see him get 30tds and 4K yards on the other if we win and he's contributing I'm good. 

[Willbacker]

14 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

I just added more. If you want my opinon about Flacco, he's good, but maddeningly inconsistent during the regular season, but he's great in big games. To say he's overrated is a joke. Most people freaking hate him because they live in the fantasy football age. Which I have come to hate.  Matt Stafford Ryan is more overrated than Flacco is as well, but he puts up better statistics so people think he's better. 

 

Stats aren't everything. 

Just a little tweeking.

[jazz1988]

On 6/26/2016 at 2:14 PM, Winchester said:

That is a team effort. That is like saying you would prefer Dilfer (who I actually really like) or brad Johnson over Marino and the elite qbs on bad teams. The ravens team step up their games in the playoffs. Boldin Pitta pulled in a lot of throw up for grabs. Manning lost all those playoff games while he was an all time elite qb. Then won a championship when his arm was the weakest in the league. Elway never won til he was no longer in his prime. 

I never watched Marino play before so I can't speak on him but when it comes to a guy like Andy Dalton no way would I  put him over Joe Flacco.. Dalton has been in this league for over 3 years now and he still hasn't been able to prove that he can get it done in the playoffs unlike Joe Flacco.

 

Putting up great numbers stat wise is cool but how much does that matter  if you fold in big games especially  if it's a playoff game? 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Here's how I break the argument down....

How many QBs in this league have been able to produce great stat lines year in and year out, or at least occasionally without being a winner? Stafford, Matt Ryan, Tannehill, Dalton, Cutler, Fitzpatrick, Schaub, etc..

How many QBs have been consistent winners, without the gaudy stat lines to back it up? I can only think of Joe. 

 

Which tells me there should be more importance paid to winning games than putting up stats. Plenty do one without it impacting their teams ability to win. However, our guy ranks with the elite in terms of winning without needing the gaudy stats. And, I'd argue its because he's good enough to carry an offense enough to win without needing high paid guys around him, so that we've been able to invest in defense where we've needed talent to win.

Where other teams need to surround their QBs with high paid guys, to put up the gaudy stats but then theyre not balanced enough to sustain winning.

[Winchester]

Winning is a team effort. Game managers win without doing much because of run game defense and sometimes oline and wr play. A qb  that puts up 4500 yards 40 TDs with less than 14 interceptions on a losing team can't be faulted. Mark Sanchez went to 2 championship games when there was a team around him. A qb has to have stats or wins. A game manager is not as important to as a qb that can put his team on his back. But a game manager is a franchise qb as well. He knows when to take care of the ball and let his team do the work and when to air it out. You can't put all blame on Dalton. That is a team effort and coaching failure to motivate and get creative unless the qb plays terrible. Then it is his fault. One reason I critique Ozzie is the ravens are usually a legit #1 WR from a top 5 offense and he has shown zero creativity to get a young legit#1. The oline is usually in place the run game and qb to have a top 3 offense. But points are left on the shelf for not having that #1wr that opens it

[rmcjacket23]

On 6/27/2016 at 0:12 AM, Ravenseconbeast said:

Nope...not sure Troy Smith came out from...

Just to justify Flacco's worth, you had to pick the lowest of the denominator to excuse his overrated status.   He is pretty much on par with likes of Mark butfumble Sanchez.  Except we were the suckers to pay him to be one of the best...TWICE.    What is his #s like after he got *paid*?  

I can almost guarantee you most homers will have another excuse lined up if Flacco underperforms once again this upcomming year or even the year after that.   

Define "underperforms"?

[Purple_City39]

5 hours ago, Winchester said:

Winning is a team effort. Game managers win without doing much because of run game defense and sometimes oline and wr play. A qb  that puts up 4500 yards 40 TDs with less than 14 interceptions on a losing team can't be faulted. Mark Sanchez went to 2 championship games when there was a team around him. A qb has to have stats or wins. A game manager is not as important to as a qb that can put his team on his back. But a game manager is a franchise qb as well. He knows when to take care of the ball and let his team do the work and when to air it out. You can't put all blame on Dalton. That is a team effort and coaching failure to motivate and get creative unless the qb plays terrible. Then it is his fault. One reason I critique Ozzie is the ravens are usually a legit #1 WR from a top 5 offense and he has shown zero creativity to get a young legit#1. The oline is usually in place the run game and qb to have a top 3 offense. But points are left on the shelf for not having that #1wr that opens it

What QB puts up 4500 yards, 40 TDs, and less than 14 INTs and gets faulted for playoff collapses unless said QB is part of the collapse?

Dalton's playoff totals are 55% completions, 1 TD, 6 INTs.  You can definitely put all the blame on him as he's been a complete liability to his team at the most important position.  Comparatively, Sanchez in the post season is sitting at 60%, 9 TDs, and 3 INTs. Sanchez has HELPED his team in January, regardless of how bad he's been in the months prior.  Some QBs step up when it matters, some don't

Fantast football QBs aren't always good playoff QBs.  Bad fantasy QBs can still be good QBs in the post season