[News] Late For Work 5/26: Three Reasons Why Joe Flacco Will Throw For 4,000 Yards

[The Mom Gene]

Just now, RRRRRavens said:

This sounds like a fun discussion to dig into. Let's start with Flacco and Kaepernick re Super Bowl records. I contend that the difference in their SB records, in fact a complete reversal of same, is one great (maybe illegal) defensive play by Jimmy Smith in the endzone near the end of the game. If Jimmy doesn't make that play SF scores and ultimately wins the SB.

Absolutely...  Oh Good God NO....  Not another Flacco thread..... 

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, RRRRRavens said:

This sounds like a fun discussion to dig into. Let's start with Flacco and Kaepernick re Super Bowl records. I contend that the difference in their SB records, in fact a complete reversal of same, is one great (maybe illegal) defensive play by Jimmy Smith in the endzone near the end of the game. If Jimmy doesn't make that play SF scores and ultimately wins the SB.

I mean this is pretty much applicable across the board. Generally speaking, the margin of error between SB winner and SB loser is ridiculously small. In a lot of cases, for an individual position like QB, it largely has nothing to do with the QB itself.

I don't consider the cutoff for great QBs to be a SB victory though, so I don't put as much stock into that.

[redrum52]

2 minutes ago, RRRRRavens said:

This sounds like a fun discussion to dig into. Let's start with Flacco and Kaepernick re Super Bowl records. I contend that the difference in their SB records, in fact a complete reversal of same, is one great (maybe illegal) defensive play by Jimmy Smith in the endzone near the end of the game. If Jimmy doesn't make that play SF scores and ultimately wins the SB.

Their kicker flopped and got em 3 points.  That 3 points made a huge difference in how that game played out.  Screw San Fran.

[The Mom Gene]

I'd take Flacco over Romo, and Dalton, even Luck.  I think I like our receiving corps this year.....  We have a bunch of really good guys, and a bunch of talented guys.  Let's do this thing this year.  I'm so tired of being under-rated.  I mean, I've kind of gotten used to it, but wouldn't it be sweet?

[redrum52]

1 minute ago, The Mom Gene said:

I think I like our receiving corps this year.....  We have a bunch of really good guys, and a bunch of talented guys.  Let's do this thing this year.  I'm so tired of being under-rated.  I mean, I've kind of gotten used to it, but wouldn't it be sweet?

If Waller shows something at TE, he could be a huge weapon.

[potomacpitbulls]

It all comes down to health and the offensive line. If the OL can keep Joe clean, and the playmakers can stay healthy other teams will have a nightmare on their hands. Wallace and Perriman will keep teams honest vertically. Smith and Aiken will be chain movers in the middle. Teams will have to also worry about covering six tall athletic big bodied TE's who can catch like receivers when they are on the field. Then you have RB’s and a FB who can block, catch, and run very well. Good Luck. Just think of this hellacious red zone scenario: Juszczyk (6’1”ft) in the back field, with Williams (6’4”), Pitta (6’4”), Gilmore (6’6”), and Waller (6’6”) out wide all looking for the jump ball.

[WNC-Raven]

  1 hour ago, The Mom Gene said:

Not really....  Again, my post said playoffs and SB....  Yes, guys can win, but you have MANY that can't win when it matters.  Joe excels at that point.  It's my opinion...  It's not wrong..  It's just mine. 

OK, but there really are a lot of guys who win when it matters.

Brady, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Manning's, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson.

That's 25% of last years starting QBs who have all hoisted Lombardi's and have had previous success in the postseason.

And THEN, you start looking at other successful postseason QBs who haven't won a SB, like Rivers and Luck. Heck, even Kaepernick has four postseason wins. 

You're looking at 8-10 QBs in this league right now who have proven they can win consistently in the postseason. And that's just QBs... that's not even including every other position on the field.

Hence why this notion of being a "winner" isn't nearly as rare as people make it out to be.

Maybe the best way to look at this is based on opposing team perception before a game. I worry more before a game against the Brady, Rodgers, Wilson games than I ever would against someone like Luck or Rivers. I never understood why people view Rivers as anything but mediocre. Have you ever worried before playing the Chargers? Me either.

[The Mom Gene]

1 minute ago, potomacpitbulls said:

It all comes down to health and the offensive line. If the OL can keep Joe clean, and the playmakers can stay healthy other teams will have a nightmare on their hands. Wallace and Perriman will keep teams honest vertically. Smith and Aiken will be chain movers in the middle. Teams will have to also worry about covering six tall athletic big bodied TE's who can catch like receivers when they are on the field. Then you have RB’s and a FB who can block, catch, and run very well. Good Luck. Just think of this hellacious red zone scenario: Juszczyk (6’1”ft) in the back field, with Williams (6’4”), Pitta (6’4”), Gilmore (6’6”), and Waller (6’6”) out wide all looking for the jump ball.

 You make it sound sooooo easy...  LOLOL.

[bioLarzen]

  1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  1 hour ago, The Mom Gene said:

Not really....  Again, my post said playoffs and SB....  Yes, guys can win, but you have MANY that can't win when it matters.  Joe excels at that point.  It's my opinion...  It's not wrong..  It's just mine. 

OK, but there really are a lot of guys who win when it matters.

Brady, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Manning's, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson.

That's 25% of last years starting QBs who have all hoisted Lombardi's and have had previous success in the postseason.

And THEN, you start looking at other successful postseason QBs who haven't won a SB, like Rivers and Luck. Heck, even Kaepernick has four postseason wins. 

You're looking at 8-10 QBs in this league right now who have proven they can win consistently in the postseason. And that's just QBs... that's not even including every other position on the field.

Hence why this notion of being a "winner" isn't nearly as rare as people make it out to be.

Maybe the best way to look at this is based on opposing team perception before a game. I worry more before a game against the Brady, Rodgers, Wilson games than I ever would against someone like Luck or Rivers. I never understood why people view Rivers as anything but mediocre. Have you ever worried before playing the Chargers? Me either.

I don't think that prception makes a player winner or loser... The fact that for long years Matt Ryan was talekd about as one of the very best QB's in the NFL didn't change the fact that he suddenly diminished when the playoffs came... Similar with Carson Palmer, and even more spectacularly with Dalton.

[RRRRRavens]

  1 hour ago, krnraven said:

Enough with the Elite label. Joe has not even reached 4K yards and his stats have been mediocre the last few years. There are Qbs throwing for 5K yards. Is he a good qb? Yes. Elite? Not right now.

Yardage doesn't matter. Its a stat that doesn't translate into winning.

Arguing about literally anybody being "elite" is a terrible waste of time. There's no right or wrong answer.

It’s a waste of time, true, but it is also quite human. We humans are typically looking for heroes to tell our stories through. We always have and always will. It’s in our DNA. Every successful dramatic movie, novel, or political movement is seen by us first through the hero of the plot even if the real reason for victory was more complex or prosaic. We gravitate towards the myth of heroes and invent them even when they don’t really exist. Psychologically we seem to need them, so we invent them when they are not readily available. You can see this now in the present political campaign for president. Of the three remaining candidates two of them are seen as “heroes” by their followers even though a deeper look into each of them reveals they are anything but heroes. It happened in Italy and Germany in the 1930’s where the populations of those countries felt they needed “heroes”. To their everlasting shame they got their “heroes” alright! I’m not decrying our human fallibility for the need for heroes. We are, after all, only human. As a species we’ve only just come out of the trees. What I do ask is that we recognize and accept this tendency to create heroes when none exist. Be real. Check to see if the king really is wearing any clothes. The QB doesn’t have to be a hero, or “elite”. He only has to be “good enough” to help win the game on game day. Payton Manning showed us that during the last Super Bowl. He was good enough and managed to not lose the game for his team.

[The Mom Gene]

Just now, bioLarzen said:

I don't think that prception makes a player winner or loser... The fact that for long years Matt Ryan was talekd about as one of the very best QB's in the NFL didn't change the fact that he suddenly diminished when the playoffs came... Similar with Carson Palmer, and even more spectacularly with Dalton.

...and Romo too.

[bioLarzen]

  23 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

I think I like our receiving corps this year.....  We have a bunch of really good guys, and a bunch of talented guys.  Let's do this thing this year.  I'm so tired of being under-rated.  I mean, I've kind of gotten used to it, but wouldn't it be sweet?

If Waller shows something at TE, he could be a huge weapon.

He should show a HUGE LOT, rather than a mere "something", to be considered at TE this season, IMHO. Barring any in juries, he'll be no more than 5th on the depth chart (well, 4th for the first 10 games) - and a 4/5th-string TE will either play at ST, or will be stashed on the IR or the PUP-list (or reléeased, but I don't think Harbaugh will let Waller walk). So, he should show that he has more to offer than Pitta, Gillmore or Maxx Williams - which is a lot to ask for a newly converted guy...

[bioLarzen]

7 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

...and Romo too.

Yep, him too.

 

People can go on trying to diminish or belittle the importance of a truly franchise QB, the fact remains that in the last 15 or so years there only were a couple of cases where a team with a mediocre QB reached the SB. The Rex Grossmann-"led" Bears is the best example, Johson for the Bucs in 2002 is another, and I guess we have to include our very own Trent Dilfer, too... plus I would definitely include the Broncos recent victory with Peyton... All the other teams had truly franchise QB's.

Edited May 26, 2016 by bioLarzen

[jravens1313]

I thought the bird thread was funny, but the Joe Flacco Elite joke is stale. I don't care if Flacco throws for 2000 yards, as long as we make the playoffs and have a chance to compete for the Lombardi.

[rmcjacket23]

37 minutes ago, bioLarzen said:

Yep, him too.

 

People can go on trying to diminish or belittle the importance of a truly franchise QB, the fact remains that in the last 15 or so years there only were a couple of cases where a team with a mediocre QB reached the SB. The Rex Grossmann-"led" Bears is the best example, Johson for the Bucs in 2002 is another, and I guess we have to include our very own Trent Dilfer, too... plus I would definitely include the Broncos recent victory with Peyton... All the other teams had truly franchise QB's.

Romo's actually been quite good in the postseason from a personal production standpoint.

His team, however, not so much.

[redrum52]

1 hour ago, WNC-Raven said:

Maybe the best way to look at this is based on opposing team perception before a game. I worry more before a game against the Brady, Rodgers, Wilson games than I ever would against someone like Luck or Rivers. I never understood why people view Rivers as anything but mediocre. Have you ever worried before playing the Chargers? Me either.

Lmao.  Really?  You don't think Rivers is a good qb?  Rivers deserves more credit than he currently gets.  Look at all his "weapons."  His OL situation is basically our CB situation on a yearly basis. 

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, WNC-Raven said:

Maybe the best way to look at this is based on opposing team perception before a game. I worry more before a game against the Brady, Rodgers, Wilson games than I ever would against someone like Luck or Rivers. I never understood why people view Rivers as anything but mediocre. Have you ever worried before playing the Chargers? Me either.

Well, Rivers has been very good against the Ravens historically, so I worry about playing against him plenty. Averages 287 yards/game against us with 14 TDs and 4 INTs in 7 games.

2nd most TD passes against a non-divisional opponent out of all the teams in the league for Rivers.

Edited May 26, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[RRRRRavens]

  1 hour ago, WNC-Raven said:

Maybe the best way to look at this is based on opposing team perception before a game. I worry more before a game against the Brady, Rodgers, Wilson games than I ever would against someone like Luck or Rivers. I never understood why people view Rivers as anything but mediocre. Have you ever worried before playing the Chargers? Me either.

Well, Rivers has been very good against the Ravens historically, so I worry about playing against him plenty. Averages 287 yards/game against us with 14 TDs and 4 INTs in 7 games.

2nd most TD passes against a non-divisional opponent out of all the teams in the league.

Yeah, but nobody has been having too many INTs when they have played us recently - - - unfortunately.

[Ravenous_Ravens]

Love the bird tweets. Made my lunch hour.

I also agree Flacco will Pass for over 4k yards this season, maybe even 4.5k if him and receivers get on same page early. Lots of deep threats means lots of yards to be taken.

[Ravenous_Ravens]

  2 hours ago, RRRRRavens said:

This sounds like a fun discussion to dig into. Let's start with Flacco and Kaepernick re Super Bowl records. I contend that the difference in their SB records, in fact a complete reversal of same, is one great (maybe illegal) defensive play by Jimmy Smith in the endzone near the end of the game. If Jimmy doesn't make that play SF scores and ultimately wins the SB.

I mean this is pretty much applicable across the board. Generally speaking, the margin of error between SB winner and SB loser is ridiculously small. In a lot of cases, for an individual position like QB, it largely has nothing to do with the QB itself.

I don't consider the cutoff for great QBs to be a SB victory though, so I don't put as much stock into that.

Right. When evaluating anyone or anything, you must always look at the whole picture or body of work. No one is great at everything and in all situations, that's life and were human.

[bioLarzen]

  1 hour ago, bioLarzen said:

Yep, him too.

 

People can go on trying to diminish or belittle the importance of a truly franchise QB, the fact remains that in the last 15 or so years there only were a couple of cases where a team with a mediocre QB reached the SB. The Rex Grossmann-"led" Bears is the best example, Johson for the Bucs in 2002 is another, and I guess we have to include our very own Trent Dilfer, too... plus I would definitely include the Broncos recent victory with Peyton... All the other teams had truly franchise QB's.

Romo's actually been quite good in the postseason from a personal production standpoint.

His team, however, not so much.

I guess his FG antics in Seattle should not count? ;)

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, bioLarzen said:

I guess his FG antics in Seattle should not count?

I'd look at it this way... would we hold it against Flacco if he did the same thing?

The answer is a resounding no. So why should I hold it against Romo either?

[bioLarzen]

So, it's three OTA sessions forfeited, plus a fine for Harbaugh.

So, John... was it worth it?

[steelcityraven]

L. Bell of the sqelers thinks that the Ravens, Bengals and Browns are all dirty teams. That's funny bc the Ravens, Bengals and Browns all think that L. Bell is too soft for this division! SMH

[steelcityraven]

Joe Flacco better throw for 4K this year for 5 reasons:
1. He has enough weapons that I could almost throw for 4k.
2. He has improved protection on the OL.
3. He should have an improved running game to take pressure off
(if improved weapons, protection and balance are not enough)
4. He has consistency with the same OC for the first time in a long time
5. He has long ball threats. (perriman-Wallace-moore can all stretch the field and rack up numbers quickly) and play makers (SSS, Camp, Renyolds etc.) can turn small passes into big gains, chain movers (Watson, Maxx and GIlmore) can give him big targets with sure hands... and RBs who are dual threats. When you can keep a defense guessing like that - 4500 yards really should be the target for Joe this year.
BONUS - Ryan Mallet.... for the first time in a long time... we have a back up who can push Joe (No one is saying that Mallet can de-throne joe) and I am not suggesting that Tyrod wasn't a solid QB... but Mallet has a similar style as Joe and has shown that he can step in and win games for us. The presence of Ryan Mallet... (a young QB who wants to learn and has confidence) can push Joe and that is a good thing!

[eze17]

Attn: Jamison Hensley - Fitzpatrick is missing all the OTA's with the Jets...just saying.

[hen826957]

If Jermey Butler doesn't make it to the 53 man roster, Mike Wallace should bring back his number 17 back because 12 is meh okay but not good on him in my opinion. :-).

[hen826957]

I wouldn't bet on Joe getting 4K this year due to we always believing he will get 4K every season like "this is the year this is the year" but it never pan out LOL but l hope he get's it this year if not win football games. :-)

[rmcjacket23]

9 minutes ago, hen826957 said:

I wouldn't bet on Joe getting 4K this year due to we always believing he will get 4K every season like "this is the year this is the year" but it never pan out LOL but l hope he get's it this year if not win football games. :-)

As good a year as any. Probably the best pass catching class he's ever had (at least on paper), looking to be a potentially very good offensive line when healthy, and a second year with an OC who likes to throw.

I suppose his injury recovery could affect this, but the resources appear to be there.

[eze17]

I agree that Brent Urban is really going to have to step it up during this training camp. Our D-line is stacked with a lot of talented young players, so this should be a real battle for roster positions.