Why a Team Declines

[Winchester]

This isn't about former accomplishments. It is about maintaining it and keeping goals peaked

[flynismo]

4 hours ago, Winchester said:

Look around he is not the only one.

Look around, everybody and their grandmother proclaimed Ray Lewis too small to play ILB. Opinions are like sphincters

[Willbacker]

We've had declines in the past and have actually missed the playoffs 2 yrs in a row after the SB(04-05). We had a losing record last year but ya know it has nothing to do with injuries I'm sure. Its all the FO's fault. Taking Stanley over Tunsil smh what could we have been thinking. With all the troubles we've had in the past ya know since we're used to it we should've went with Tunsil and Spence and just kept turning up the heat on Bisciotti.

[Willbacker]

8 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Look around, everybody and their grandmother proclaimed Ray Lewis too small to play ILB. Opinions are like sphincters

Yep everybody has one.

[flynismo]

8 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

We've had declines in the past and have actually missed the playoffs 2 yrs in a row after the SB(04-05). We had a losing record last year but ya know it has nothing to do with injuries I'm sure. Its all the FO's fault. Taking Stanley over Tunsil smh what could we have been thinking. With all the troubles we've had in the past ya know since we're used to it we should've went with Tunsil and Spence and just kept turning up the heat on Bisciotti.

Yes but now Ray isn't around anymore to "set them straight" LOL...that was such a ridiculous thing people used to say around here

[JoeyFlex5]

Teams decline due to a lack of quality coffee and you know it.

[Winchester]

 

17 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Teams decline due to a lack of quality coffee and you know it.

Ravens must be using Maxwell house and foldgers. Get some Starbucks in the facility for the rookies

[Tru11]

4 hours ago, Danny D said:

Do you believe the rest of the league would sign up for the last 3 seasons?  What has been illustrated is a team in decline. When a team is In decline, the longer it goes on, the worse it gets. Tank92 understands the subject, he's just going to evaluate it upon whether we have another losing season or not.  The reason for the recent decline are the decisions of the last 7 years and as prefaced, especially the decisions of the last 4 years.  If you don't like the manner in which the topic is getting you to think, take a look at the Bengals drafts of the last 7 years and reply again.

When a team isn't making hay with 1st and 2nd round selections there is a problem.  Those blue highlights should be completely reversed. They should dominate the page and not accent it.

1st and 2nd rounders should predominantly be plug and play. Especially drafting as high as 6th. If they are not, someone has conditioned us with proprietary kool aid.

The bengals have won a grand total of 0 play off games these past 7 years.

The last time they actually won a play off game the ravens did not even exist.

We have won more play off games in the past 3 years then they have in the past 25 years.

Let that sink in before you wanna reply using them as an example again.

Also im quite sure there are plenty teams that would sign up for 1 play off win in the last 3 seasons.

Bengals , Browns,Jags,Titans,Jets,Bills,Dolphins,Texans,Oakland,Redskins,Eagles,Giants,Vikings,Lions,Bears,Falcons,Bucs and Rams.

Thats 18 teams with 0 play off wins in the past 3 seasons and im not even counting those who only had 1 win which are quite a lot as well.

Pats,Colts,Broncos,Packers,panthers,hawks and niners are the only teams that have won more then 1 play off game these past 3 seasons.

So again where is your data that supports we have done a terrible job.

1 losing season in 3 seasons in not bad at all let alone 1 losing season in what 8 years now?

 

 

[Willbacker]

1 hour ago, flynismo said:

Yes but now Ray isn't around anymore to "set them straight" LOL...that was such a ridiculous thing people used to say around here

Yes. We need more spinckter kickers lol.

[Cville-Raven]

44 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Teams decline due to a lack of quality coffee and you know it.

But is it instant?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

7 hours ago, Winchester said:

The point of this thread is where the ravens are now and where the ravens are going to be next couple years. Not the winning seasons with players drafted a decade ago and longer as the cornerstones. Truth is even former ravens players are predicting a losing season again. Which would make 2 consecutive and 3 of 4 seasons since superbowl non winning seasons. Management is trying patchwork to fill various holes through signing older player. In my opinion and I could be wrong, his point is if ravens do not draft better then team could be in for a losing season again. And if the patchwork with the 30+ vets fail then the draft needs to produce some impact players to replace the retired and over their prime impact players like Lewis reed ngata Suggs. Can't replace them guys with mediocre role players and expect to keep competing. However I really like this draft class. T young is more than a slot cornerback. Kufusi has massive potential as an edge rusher. Chris moore is a more complete receiver than given credit. Will Henry has pro bowl potential. Victor Ochi was the best undrafted player.

Actually, that doesn't make sense at all.

If he's pointing out that 2010, 2011, and 2012 drafts were bad... but then we were really good in 2010, 2011, and 2012 then the point isn't we need to draft well now to be good this season. The only possible correlation would be that since we "drafted bad" in those years we are now suffering for it.

In which case the current draft and next years wont have an impact until 2018, 2019, and 2020... and since he's already tried to say our current drafts are bad then we're already doomed so we all might as well go into hibernation for the next 4-5 years until we can hope to rebuild this thing.

 

Except this all leaves out the players we drafted in later rounds who are better than many players drafted by any team in the 1st and 2nd rounds.

It's a stupid attempt at analysis. It does nothing, proves nothing, and doesn't compare to anything. There's nothing done to support his point that hitting on the top 2 rounds is what matters most to a teams current and future success. There was nothing shown to prove we've done any worse/better than the rest of the league in terms of our 1st and 2nd rounds picks EVEN IF we accepted that that's all that is important.

Overall this a pointless thread. From a person who claims to be able to do our FO's job better than them, this is a pretty awful attempt at player evaluation and projection for team success.

 

[Winchester]

25 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Actually, that doesn't make sense at all.

If he's pointing out that 2010, 2011, and 2012 drafts were bad... but then we were really good in 2010, 2011, and 2012 then the point isn't we need to draft well now to be good this season. The only possible correlation would be that since we "drafted bad" in those years we are now suffering for it.

In which case the current draft and next years wont have an impact until 2018, 2019, and 2020... and since he's already tried to say our current drafts are bad then we're already doomed so we all might as well go into hibernation for the next 4-5 years until we can hope to rebuild this thing.

 

Except this all leaves out the players we drafted in later rounds who are better than many players drafted by any team in the 1st and 2nd rounds.

It's a stupid attempt at analysis. It does nothing, proves nothing, and doesn't compare to anything. There's nothing done to support his point that hitting on the top 2 rounds is what matters most to a teams current and future success. There was nothing shown to prove we've done any worse/better than the rest of the league in terms of our 1st and 2nd rounds picks EVEN IF we accepted that that's all that is important.

Overall this a pointless thread. From a person who claims to be able to do our FO's job better than them, this is a pretty awful attempt at player evaluation and projection for team success.

 

There has been many better drafting teams than ravens of late. Again ravens cornerstones 5 yrs ago were players drafted over a decade ago and longer.

[Adreme]

1 hour ago, Winchester said:

There has been many better drafting teams than ravens of late. Again ravens cornerstones 5 yrs ago were players drafted over a decade ago and longer.

You mean a decade or longer ago when the Ravens were able to pick high in the draft every other year?  Its not that hard to get great players when you draft in the top half of the first round.  This whole thread is subjective though.  Calling Maxx Williams and Perriman busts or even listing them is crazy.

I would even go as far as to say Elam is premature considering he had 1 bad season and it was bad but it was his 2nd season before getting an unlucky season ending injury that derailed him last season when he looked like he might be wiling to take that step forward.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Tru11 said:

The bengals have won a grand total of 0 play off games these past 7 years.

 

I'm sure the following news will be met with elation...this is my last post in this thread.  A thread I nevertheless believe is portentous, but my next illustration will take a different form.

Everything you wrote, you considered support for your statement above. That statement is irrelevant to how thoroughly the Bengals are out-drafting us these past 7 years. They are schooling us and they are not the only team, just the team I selected for this illustration.

The Bengals have won the Division 2 of the last 3 years, in fact in the very years we missed the playoffs.  Additionally, the Bengals are 6-1 against us in our last 7 games.  (The beginning of the Decline Period brought on by bad Drafting.)

The Bengals are in fact schooling us to the Max, to attempt to maintain otherwise cannot be credibly sustained.  

All that said however is a red herring and irrelevant to Newsome and DeCosta's recent poor drafting decisions or drafting failures, as is your bootstrap argument that Cincinnati can't be schooling us in the draft because they are losing playoff games. Cincinnati has a coach who I believe is  accountable and I believe they will soon turn the playoff tables with or without him, however their playoff turnaround will not change the status of how well they have recently drafted, especially when juxtaposed with how poorly we have drafted.

And the obvious reason I want this clearly understood is I want new blood to make these drafting decisions.

 

Edited May 23, 2016 by Danny D

[K-Dog]

wow

[sibelius]

I understand wanting to place blame after last season...I didn't even watch. Circumstances here nor there, it's fair to say Ozzie and Harbs like stand up guys with good backgrounds more than mean guys--coaches and players. They also like to give those guys chances. Many of the Ravens glory days were when we were mean and unforgiving. I don't think that mentality wins championships anymore. I think the chips are stacked against a franchise like the Ravens in this day and age but our owner is smart and our system is world class so I trust it.

 

The Ravens have done some really improbable things and I think that's related to the fact that we choose guys with grit and determination. We have missed on some guys or stayed loyal to guys too long, but I feel really good about this team and where it will be when this season starts if we can get there healthy. I wouldn't underrate how unusual it is to be able root for a winner, an underdog winner, and also be proud of the people that run it as well. If and when the time comes to make changes of any kind Bisciotti will do just that, but save for any retirements or unexpected defections, I don't see any major shake ups at upper levels of the organization any time soon. I think results on the field will validate that course.

[Ravensfan23]

1 hour ago, Winchester said:

There has been many better drafting teams than ravens of late. Again ravens cornerstones 5 yrs ago were players drafted over a decade ago and longer.

how many of those teams have actually won a Super Bowl or have been as successful as the Ravens in recent year? The Ravens have been more unlucky in the last 5 years than anything. How many young cornerstone players drafted within the last 10 years who aren't here because of injury or pricing themselves out of town?

Rice, Pitta, Torrey and KO were all cornerstone type of players on offense who were drafted 2008 or later, but are no longer here to no fault of the FO. Not to mention guys like Jimmy, Brandon, Tucker, CJ and Gilmore who have all shown pro bowl level play but has to be consistent. Then of you have your 30+ guys like Flacco, Yanda, Suggs, Forsett and Doom who can still play at a high level when healthy. Then there is young talent that has shown potential to be major parts of this team long term like Timmy, Juice, Urschel, Wagner, Guy, Aiken, Allen and Z. Smith. Then of course you have the young guys like Maxx, Davis, Urban, Brooks and Camp who you've seen signs of being able to contribute but you want to see them stay healthy and consistent. None of these makes mention of the rookie class. 

Call me a homer but I think the Ravens have a really strong nucleus and young foundation. The combination of injuries and young guys just not knowing how to finish games is what's done the Ravens in over the last couple years. The 2013 season was bad, but to bounce back and hold two 14 point leads ,on the road in a playoff game vs the Pats in 2014 and despite so many injuries to have 90% of your games in 2015 come down to one or two plays being made in the 4th quarter is very impressive. This team is primed for success and those that can't see it are unable to see through their emotions of seeing the Ravens lose imo.  

 

[Ravensfan23]

56 minutes ago, Danny D said:

I'm sure the following news will be met with elation...this is my last post in this thread.  A thread I nevertheless believe is portentous, but my next illustration will take a different form.

Everything you wrote, you considered support for your statement above. That statement is irrelevant to how thoroughly the Bengals are out-drafting us these past 7 years. They are schooling us and they are not the only team, just the team I selected for this illustration.

The Bengals have won the Division 2 of the last 3 years, in fact in the very years we missed the playoffs.  Additionally, the Bengals are 6-1 against us in our last 7 games.  (The beginning of the Decline Period brought on by bad Drafting.)

The Bengals are in fact schooling us to the Max, to attempt to maintain otherwise cannot be credibly sustained.  

All that said however is a red herring and irrelevant to Newsome and DeCosta's recent poor drafting decisions or drafting failures, as is your bootstrap argument that Cincinnati can't be schooling us in the draft because they are losing playoff games. Cincinnati has a coach who I believe is  accountable and I believe they will soon turn the playoff tables with or without him, however their playoff turnaround will not change the status of how well they have recently drafted, especially when juxtaposed with how poorly we have drafted.

And the obvious reason I want this clearly understood is I want new blood to make these drafting decisions.

 

Oh....I am so lost. I didn't know we were talking about winning the draft. I though this threat was meant to be about how draft picks should turn into winning playoff games and potential Super Bowls. I gotta rethink this whole football thing. I guess I have to just submit to the new age Fantasy Football era and winning the approval of fans in the draft as the measuring stick of success. 

I think i'll follow suit and make this my last post in this threat as well. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

2 hours ago, Danny D said:

I'm sure the following news will be met with elation...this is my last post in this thread.  A thread I nevertheless believe is portentous, but my next illustration will take a different form.

Everything you wrote, you considered support for your statement above. That statement is irrelevant to how thoroughly the Bengals are out-drafting us these past 7 years. They are schooling us and they are not the only team, just the team I selected for this illustration.

The Bengals have won the Division 2 of the last 3 years, in fact in the very years we missed the playoffs.  Additionally, the Bengals are 6-1 against us in our last 7 games.  (The beginning of the Decline Period brought on by bad Drafting.)

The Bengals are in fact schooling us to the Max, to attempt to maintain otherwise cannot be credibly sustained.  

All that said however is a red herring and irrelevant to Newsome and DeCosta's recent poor drafting decisions or drafting failures, as is your bootstrap argument that Cincinnati can't be schooling us in the draft because they are losing playoff games. Cincinnati has a coach who I believe is  accountable and I believe they will soon turn the playoff tables with or without him, however their playoff turnaround will not change the status of how well they have recently drafted, especially when juxtaposed with how poorly we have drafted.

And the obvious reason I want this clearly understood is I want new blood to make these drafting decisions.

 

Everything comes in cycles. They built the core of the team after years of being bad and drafting high. Now I agree they've drafted well, even recently with success. But, now that they're at the point in the process where high quality players are leaving in FA bc they can no longer afford to retain them, let's see how long they're able to maintain their "success."

And, yes, winning playoff games should be a measure of success considering the whole point of playing isn't to win the division, isn't to win the most regular season games, but to get into the playoffs and win when you get there. Our team was never built to run up big win totals... but to get to the playoffs and then win in December/January when its cold, and games are tightly contested.

For all their talent, the players the Bengals draft and keep don't have the mentality to win big games. They melt down, commit huge errors, and cannot control themselves. And, you watch. They will begin a sharp decline starting this year.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

These threads are like talking to a wall.

Lets just let the season speak for itself. I just cant wait to hear the narrative when we're right back in playoff contention and among the super bowl contenders, and when its seen how much our young players are contributing this year.

This narrative has been the same since forever... at least since 2008 or so. Forever it was we cant find or develop of QB to get over the hump. Then our defense was declining and our offense was never going to be good enough to carry them... All while we were winning playoff games and getting to AFC Championships, and then winning a Super Bowl.

Then 2013 spelled the apocalypse as Ozzie purged the roster of everyones favorite names and stars.... and it was we'll never rebound, its going to be years rebuilding - see, 8-8... and then the next year we were a couple plays from the AFC Championship again with a decimated secondary and had the SB Champs beat in their own house.

Now, last year and the doomsday preppers are out again using 2015 as evidence of how horrible we are, and conveniently ignore the league leading number of players on IR including half of the opening day starters and arguably out Top 5 most important players... but that wasn't the reason for our record - Its obviously drafting!! Because every team that's forced to play all rookies, 2nd year players and PS players is going to continue right on without a hitch.

Bengals lost Dalton, couldn't win a game. Pats lost a cpl weapons, struggled to win games. Steelers lose Bell, struggle to win games. Any other team, take even 1 or 2 key pieces away and they struggle and its justified. Deplete our entire roster - no excuse, poor drafting. Just stupid.

But again, this team will speak for itself. Before the injuries many experts picked us as one of the most talented rosters and a popular SB pick. Now we've reloaded at some important positions, have probably our best group of weapons ever, and have good depth across the board. I'm not going to guarantee playoffs, because that's hard to do in this league, and its clear that many take for granted just how difficult it is just to get into the playoffs, let alone win at the rate that we have.

But, we'll be right there in the toughest division in football, and will be right there for the next 5 years health permitting. And these people will always exist.... I don't get the point of calling yourself a fan when you don't enjoy the team... We've been definitely in the Top 5 most successful franchises since we came into existence, what more could you want? And, we've had that success in an ALL-TIME era for QBs when the QB has become more important than ever, and we've routinely halted even the best of the best. This is, has been, and will be one of the best franchises in the NFL. Ozzie and Co are the biggest reason for that, not the cause of our downfall.

Just get over it and enjoy the fact that we'll be back to winning in no time.

[ellicottraven]

Man everybody needs to take a chill pill! The OTA's are even started yet and the dooms day scenarios are being played out in full force. Let us allow the training camp to happen, see how we're faring with injuries (which was our achilles heel last year - no pun intended Sizzle), and then we can debate how we may do in the season. I guarantee you if we are fully healthy at our most pivotal positions on offense and defense, we are going to be serious contenders.

What Ozzie and Eric have done so well is created a roster with incredible depth and versatility. Harbaugh is a great motivator of his players as last year fighting performance showcased. We have a plethora of senior and established coaches on our roster that can game plan with anybody in the NFL. We have a very good roster and some rookies are going to contribute this year. So there is only reason for optimism and not gloom imo. Yes, we may have lost some games to the Bengals - so what? If you look at each of those games, we could've have won any of them. We are going to beat them consistently again but give the team an opportunity to line up first!

I believe in our team and the way we drafted as well. Are we always going to nail our picks? No. The reason we amass picks and covet them is because we understand this is a numbers game and a little luck is involved in nailing picks. So, let us all become optimistic and hopeful till we know otherwise. I also believe that this is the year we'll pass the 12-13 game win threshold and earn a bye in the playoffs. Am I being a homer? Perhaps, but that optimism keeps me going. 

[trevorsteadman]

17 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

Man everybody needs to take a chill pill! The OTA's are even started yet and the dooms day scenarios are being played out in full force. Let us allow the training camp to happen, see how we're faring with injuries (which was our achilles heel last year - no pun intended Sizzle), and then we can debate how we may do in the season. I guarantee you if we are fully healthy at our most pivotal positions on offense and defense, we are going to be serious contenders.

What Ozzie and Eric have done so well is created a roster with incredible depth and versatility. Harbaugh is a great motivator of his players as last year fighting performance showcased. We have a plethora of senior and established coaches on our roster that can game plan with anybody in the NFL. We have a very good roster and some rookies are going to contribute this year. So there is only reason for optimism and not gloom imo. Yes, we may have lost some games to the Bengals - so what? If you look at each of those games, we could've have won any of them. We are going to beat them consistently again but give the team an opportunity to line up first!

I believe in our team and the way we drafted as well. Are we always going to nail our picks? No. The reason we amass picks and covet them is because we understand this is a numbers game and a little luck is involved in nailing picks. So, let us all become optimistic and hopeful till we know otherwise. I also believe that this is the year we'll pass the 12-13 game win threshold and earn a bye in the playoffs. Am I being a homer? Perhaps, but that optimism keeps me going. 

Everyone on these forums were on that kool aid juice when we were a play off team year in and year out and it was annoying hearing people say this next season was the year we were going 16-0. But now it is even more annoying hearing fans after one of the worst in recent memory just keep dogging the team. I mean we went 5-11 with 4 different quarterbacks on the team, without your best defensive player 15 games, without your best wide receiver half the season.... The injury list goes on and on and we still went 3-3 in division games. 9 losses that could have easily gone the other way within one score.

While I know last season grounded a lot of us fans some people are already raising the doomsday posters. OTA's start in two days and that is when we will get a first look at how these rookies play. I think the team is in a lot better position this year than last. I am excited to see football start up again. I wouldn't worry about this team unless they struggle out of the gate going 1-3 the first quarter of the schedule.

Edited May 23, 2016 by trevorsteadman

[Winchester]

3 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

how many of those teams have actually won a Super Bowl or have been as successful as the Ravens in recent year? The Ravens have been more unlucky in the last 5 years than anything. How many young cornerstone players drafted within the last 10 years who aren't here because of injury or pricing themselves out of town?

Rice, Pitta, Torrey and KO were all cornerstone type of players on offense who were drafted 2008 or later, but are no longer here to no fault of the FO. Not to mention guys like Jimmy, Brandon, Tucker, CJ and Gilmore who have all shown pro bowl level play but has to be consistent. Then of you have your 30+ guys like Flacco, Yanda, Suggs, Forsett and Doom who can still play at a high level when healthy. Then there is young talent that has shown potential to be major parts of this team long term like Timmy, Juice, Urschel, Wagner, Guy, Aiken, Allen and Z. Smith. Then of course you have the young guys like Maxx, Davis, Urban, Brooks and Camp who you've seen signs of being able to contribute but you want to see them stay healthy and consistent. None of these makes mention of the rookie class. 

Call me a homer but I think the Ravens have a really strong nucleus and young foundation. The combination of injuries and young guys just not knowing how to finish games is what's done the Ravens in over the last couple years. The 2013 season was bad, but to bounce back and hold two 14 point leads ,on the road in a playoff game vs the Pats in 2014 and despite so many injuries to have 90% of your games in 2015 come down to one or two plays being made in the 4th quarter is very impressive. This team is primed for success and those that can't see it are unable to see through their emotions of seeing the Ravens lose imo.  

 

You could just as easily say those that can not see this team has to many needs can not see through their emotions of wanting to see the ravens do well and win

[Tru11]

11 hours ago, Danny D said:

I'm sure the following news will be met with elation...this is my last post in this thread.  A thread I nevertheless believe is portentous, but my next illustration will take a different form.

Everything you wrote, you considered support for your statement above. That statement is irrelevant to how thoroughly the Bengals are out-drafting us these past 7 years. They are schooling us and they are not the only team, just the team I selected for this illustration.

The Bengals have won the Division 2 of the last 3 years, in fact in the very years we missed the playoffs.  Additionally, the Bengals are 6-1 against us in our last 7 games.  (The beginning of the Decline Period brought on by bad Drafting.)

The Bengals are in fact schooling us to the Max, to attempt to maintain otherwise cannot be credibly sustained.  

All that said however is a red herring and irrelevant to Newsome and DeCosta's recent poor drafting decisions or drafting failures, as is your bootstrap argument that Cincinnati can't be schooling us in the draft because they are losing playoff games. Cincinnati has a coach who I believe is  accountable and I believe they will soon turn the playoff tables with or without him, however their playoff turnaround will not change the status of how well they have recently drafted, especially when juxtaposed with how poorly we have drafted.

And the obvious reason I want this clearly understood is I want new blood to make these drafting decisions.

 

smh

you do realise you are supposed to out draft a team when you have higher picks then them right ?

the only time they had a lower pick then us in the past 7 years was in 2014 after our 8-8 season.

So in 7 years the bengals drafted higher then ravens 6 times.

They had the better chance at better players because they had a higher pick.
Its not freaking rocket science but common sense....

You cant judge drafts without considering draft position.

Your draft position is determined by your performance the previous season.
The Ravens have been getting better results over the past 7 seasons as the bengals.

Its actually quite hilarious that even though according to you the Bengals have been out drafting us for the past 7 seasons they have yet to win 1 single play off game in the last 7 years while the ravens have won plenty and even won a SB.

The results speak for themselves no matter how much you try to ignore.

What is the point of having good drafts when it does not produce any results.....

 

 

 

[JoeyFlex5]

The Bengals offense has been carried by.. Take a guess... A 4th overall pick in AJ green, a bona fide top wr, something the ravens have never even come close to having the chance to find. 

 

They have done solid drafting on defense but they also have picked guys like Dre Kirkpatrick which is even worse than a pick like Elam considering they drafted him much higher. Gresham was a high pick who turned out average, dennard has been disappointing so far, and ogbuehi is tbd. But as you clearly see when they are drafting high they are hitting and they are equal or worse than us when picking late. Since aj green they have made just one legit great first round pick and that was Tyler eifert which was a necessity due to them whiffing on Gresham a few years prior, the bengals have drafted average at best since they began their streak of making the playoffs and soon it will tear its ugly head, the same way it did to us. We drafted late for 7 seasons and as a result we whiffed a few times and now we are feeling the sting of it, it's the nature of the nfl, it creates parity, the ravens are doing exactly what the league allows. The difference between the ravens and Bengals is that they were able to draft high and get superstars before their streak started, we were riding on old veterans past their prime and trying to replace them with late picks, we will see the true test when the bengals begin losing players and they begin to slowly decline due to picking late and whiffing. 

 

When the bengals are picking in the early 20s for another 2 years and whiff repeatedly, while the ravens have mosley, perriman, and Stanley as high end starters, then it won't look so bad, since well have a winning core in place and the bengals will be in rebuild mode because they missed their window of opportunity.

[trevorsteadman]

6 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

The Bengals offense has been carried by.. Take a guess... A 4th overall pick in AJ green, a bona fide top wr, something the ravens have never even come close to having the chance to find. 

 

They have done solid drafting on defense but they also have picked guys like Dre Kirkpatrick which is even worse than a pick like Elam considering they drafted him much higher. Gresham was a high pick who turned out average, dennard has been disappointing so far, and ogbuehi is tbd. But as you clearly see when they are drafting high they are hitting and they are equal or worse than us when picking late. Since aj green they have made just one legit great first round pick and that was Tyler eifert which was a necessity due to them whiffing on Gresham a few years prior, the bengals have drafted average at best since they began their streak of making the playoffs and soon it will tear its ugly head, the same way it did to us. We drafted late for 7 seasons and as a result we whiffed a few times and now we are feeling the sting of it, it's the nature of the nfl, it creates parity, the ravens are doing exactly what the league allows. The difference between the ravens and Bengals is that they were able to draft high and get superstars before their streak started, we were riding on old veterans past their prime and trying to replace them with late picks, we will see the true test when the bengals begin losing players and they begin to slowly decline due to picking late and whiffing. 

 

When the bengals are picking in the early 20s for another 2 years and whiff repeatedly, while the ravens have mosley, perriman, and Stanley as high end starters, then it won't look so bad, since well have a winning core in place and the bengals will be in rebuild mode because they missed their window of opportunity.

I don't see why people think the Bengals have drafted so well. Remember Perriman was a starter like day 2 of OTA's last season think if he returns to form. I think we found a gem he just has yet to develop yet. He started over Aiken who almost had 1000 yards last season. I think Perriman if he returns 100% that he may be that #1 guy for us 2 years down the road. 

 

Mosley is the captain of our defense and I see Stanley here for a very long time. 

[jdynamite]

On May 22, 2016 at 7:31 AM, Tru11 said:

yawn.

it would be worth debating if you did this for all 32 teams and then based on that data could actually present a case where it clearly shows that our FO is at the bottom when it comes to performance.

its hard to argue they have not been good when you dont present anything to measure them against.....

since you go all the way back to 2010 i can safely argue they have been terrific compared to the rest of league except a few others.

2010 play offs
2011 play offs
2012 SB winner
2013 8-8 season
2014 play offs
2015 first losing season.

id say other then the pats,packers,broncos and hawks any other team would sign up for this.....

I think you pretty much said it..  Without any type of data or comparison to the rest of the league it's a pretty pointless thing. 

Also when it comes to Upshaw people tend to grade him very harshly simply because he never became a pass rusher, but he was an integral part of the defense.  

Upshaw's role allowed Kruger and Dummervil to come in, fresh to collect sacks. 

[harfordravenfan]

1 minute ago, jdynamite said:

I think you pretty much said it..  Without any type of data or comparison to the rest of the league it's a pretty pointless thing. 

Also when it comes to Upshaw people tend to grade him very harshly simply because he never became a pass rusher, but he was an integral part of the defense.  

Upshaw's role allowed Kruger and Dummervil to come in, fresh to collect sacks. 

I agree, he was a JJ clone and took care of the dirty work that helped others 

[trevorsteadman]

1 minute ago, jdynamite said:

I think you pretty much said it..  Without any type of data or comparison to the rest of the league it's a pretty pointless thing. 

Also when it comes to Upshaw people tend to grade him very harshly simply because he never became a pass rusher, but he was an integral part of the defense.  

Upshaw's role allowed Kruger and Dummervil to come in, fresh to collect sacks. 

Him and Brandon Williams were are two great run defenders. With him gone I hope our defense doesn't get ran over. I think Za'Darius may take his role if we do not switch him to DE which we may with the departure of Canty unless Kaufusi can show he is ready. I love the upside of our defensive line but they are young and none of them have proved anything other than Williams. If Suggs and Dumervil were to retire I think our defense would be ran over. 

[rmcjacket23]

So let me get this straight...

There's now an entire thread dedicated to the premise that teams who don't draft well struggle to win games?

We've officially hit rock bottom folks. Time to turn off the lights. Its over.