Why a Team Declines

[Guest]

Replacement Players

Or more accurately bad choices regarding replacement players is why a team declines.

Though not the only source to scrutinize, the Draft is the primary source of replacing players. A team can bootstrap itself up by lucking out with later round gems, but identifying and selecting properly in the first two rounds is the key to replacing players.  Obviously, that function and a team's rise or fall is entirely on the shoulders of the team's Front Office. I've taken the liberty of illustrating the clear successes. They are not very good lately are they.  That's a rhetorical question. It's even worse if you include the 3rd round.

 

 

2016

Stanley

Correa

2015

Perriman

Williams

2014

Mosley

Jernigan

2013

Elam

Brown

2012

Upshaw

Osemele

2011

Jimmy Smith

Torrey Smith

2010

Kindle

Cody

[Tru11]

yawn.

it would be worth debating if you did this for all 32 teams and then based on that data could actually present a case where it clearly shows that our FO is at the bottom when it comes to performance.

its hard to argue they have not been good when you dont present anything to measure them against.....

since you go all the way back to 2010 i can safely argue they have been terrific compared to the rest of league except a few others.

2010 play offs
2011 play offs
2012 SB winner
2013 8-8 season
2014 play offs
2015 first losing season.

id say other then the pats,packers,broncos and hawks any other team would sign up for this.....

[Tiznut]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm

 

just as "bad"  but they've avoided key injuries. 

[elemento]

I don't see the point to include 2015 and 2016 as "non-success". It's too soon. 

I wouldn't consider Jernigan a failure as well. He is definitely a good player. 

2010 was a bad draft, no doubt. The Ravens ended up with Pitta and that's it. As for 2013, you need to consider the rest. The Ravens didn't nail in the 1st 2 rounds, but they got Brandon Williams in the 3rd, Juice in the 4th, Rick Wagner in the 5th and Ryan Jensen in the 6th.  

[usmccharles]

Seriously? If your going to start another complain thread,  at least put some effort into it

Edited May 22, 2016 by usmccharles

[Purple_City39]

35 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

yawn.

it would be worth debating if you did this for all 32 teams and then based on that data could actually present a case where it clearly shows that our FO is at the bottom when it comes to performance.

its hard to argue they have not been good when you dont present anything to measure them against.....

since you go all the way back to 2010 i can safely argue they have been terrific compared to the rest of league except a few others.

2010 play offs
2011 play offs
2012 SB winner
2013 8-8 season
2014 play offs
2015 first losing season.

id say other then the pats,packers,broncos and hawks any other team would sign up for this.....

Pretty much this.  What's the comparison being made to?  You gain credibility with a thought out argument, not just this whole "I don't like who they picked in this year's draft so let me tell you why the GM sucks and needs to go" rant you've been on lately.

[Willbacker]

Nah getting a LT is always a bad idea. Really don't know why you hating on this draft. And as Tru said what are the comparisons to other teams and how many do well or even make the league. Cant look at it from only the Ravens perspective.

[Winchester]

The point of this thread is where the ravens are now and where the ravens are going to be next couple years. Not the winning seasons with players drafted a decade ago and longer as the cornerstones. Truth is even former ravens players are predicting a losing season again. Which would make 2 consecutive and 3 of 4 seasons since superbowl non winning seasons. Management is trying patchwork to fill various holes through signing older player. In my opinion and I could be wrong, his point is if ravens do not draft better then team could be in for a losing season again. And if the patchwork with the 30+ vets fail then the draft needs to produce some impact players to replace the retired and over their prime impact players like Lewis reed ngata Suggs. Can't replace them guys with mediocre role players and expect to keep competing. However I really like this draft class. T young is more than a slot cornerback. Kufusi has massive potential as an edge rusher. Chris moore is a more complete receiver than given credit. Will Henry has pro bowl potential. Victor Ochi was the best undrafted player.

[Tank 92]

2 minutes ago, Winchester said:

The point of this thread is where the ravens are now and where the ravens are going to be next couple years. Not the winning seasons with players drafted a decade ago and longer as the cornerstones. Truth is even former ravens players are predicting a losing season again. Which would make 2 consecutive and 3 of 4 seasons since superbowl non winning seasons. 

What former Ravens players are predicting a losing season?

[Winchester]

Wally Williams is the newest to do so

[Tank 92]

This Wally Williams?   lol

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baltimore-sports-blog/bal-ex-raven-wally-williams-says-team-should-have-drafted-laremy-tunsil-20160505-story.html

[Cville-Raven]

lol at including guys who have yet to play or were only drafted last year.

[Winchester]

13 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

This Wally Williams?   lol

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baltimore-sports-blog/bal-ex-raven-wally-williams-says-team-should-have-drafted-laremy-tunsil-20160505-story.html

Look around he is not the only one. And although I like Ron Stanley you can not fault anybody for liking the finished product tunsil. Ron Stanley needs more upper body strength  But shoukd be better player once he obtains it. Just some news. Tunsil I hear has arthritis like condition in his ankles.News should go public in near future

[Tiznut]

37 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Wally Williams is the newest to do so

There is a difference between predicting a losing season and disagreeing on one solitary pick. That said if his opinion or insider knowledge was that valuable please tell me what franchise is paying him for his insight 

[Cville-Raven]

 

10 hours ago, Tiznut said:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm

 

just as "bad"  but they've avoided key injuries. 

Ras I.R. Dowling says hello

[Winchester]

20 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

There is a difference between predicting a losing season and disagreeing on one solitary pick. That said if his opinion or insider knowledge was that valuable please tell me what franchise is paying him for his insight 

Doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is talking about. I mean somebody made Matt Millen a gm. Colts gm signed a 10-11 year vet running back to big money and a clearly slowing down Andre Johnson. If he is right enough I'm sure it will catch a franchise's attention.fans tuned in and lines clogged up with fans wanting to ask him questions. So somebody cares about his opinion. Some of the world's best computer hackers are not employed by anybody yet. The hacker that invented the computer virus was not employed by anybody in computers at the time. America is filled with people that suck at their jobs but knew somebody. I work with some of them.

[Tiznut]

Who said he didn't know what he's talking about. Just pointing out your desire to embellish what was said.  He disagrees with ONE pick. That doesn't mean predicting a losing season. The only thing he can really do is say Ozzie isn't always right with his choices and cite our desire to sign him as proof that Ozzie makes mistakes 

[Winchester]

You asked who is paying him for his insight as if there is no credit or fact in what his opinion is

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Tru11 said:

 

since you go all the way back to 2010 i can safely argue they have been terrific compared to the rest of league except a few others.

2010 play offs
2011 play offs
2012 SB winner
2013 8-8 season
2014 play offs
2015 first losing season.

id say other then the pats,packers,broncos and hawks any other team would sign up for this.....

Do you believe the rest of the league would sign up for the last 3 seasons?  What has been illustrated is a team in decline. When a team is In decline, the longer it goes on, the worse it gets. Tank92 understands the subject, he's just going to evaluate it upon whether we have another losing season or not.  The reason for the recent decline are the decisions of the last 7 years and as prefaced, especially the decisions of the last 4 years.  If you don't like the manner in which the topic is getting you to think, take a look at the Bengals drafts of the last 7 years and reply again.

4 hours ago, Purple_City39 said:

Pretty much this.  What's the comparison being made to?  You gain credibility with a thought out argument, not just this whole "I don't like who they picked in this year's draft so let me tell you why the GM sucks and needs to go" rant you've been on lately.

When a team isn't making hay with 1st and 2nd round selections there is a problem.  Those blue highlights should be completely reversed. They should dominate the page and not accent it.

1 hour ago, Cville-Raven said:

lol at including guys who have yet to play or were only drafted last year.

1st and 2nd rounders should predominantly be plug and play. Especially drafting as high as 6th. If they are not, someone has conditioned us with proprietary kool aid.

[redrum52]

2 minutes ago, Danny D said:

Do you believe the rest of the league would sign up for the last 3 seasons?  What has been illustrated is a team in decline. When a team is In decline, the longer it goes on, the worse it gets. Tank92 understands the subject, he's just going to evaluate it upon whether we have another losing season or not.  The reason for the recent decline are the decisions of the last 7 years and as prefaced, especially the decisions of the last 4 years.  If you don't like the manner in which the topic is getting you to think, take a look at the Bengals drafts of the last 7 years and reply again.

When a team isn't making hay with 1st and 2nd round selections there is a problem.  Those blue highlights should be completely reversed. They should dominate the page and not accent it.

1st and 2nd rounders should predominantly be plug and play. Especially drafting as high as 6th. If they are not, someone has conditioned us with proprietary kool aid.

It's easy to say this after the 5-11 aeason, but what were you saying during the 14 season and playoff run?  Did you think we were in decline then?

[Tiznut]

31 minutes ago, Winchester said:

You asked who is paying him for his insight as if there is no credit or fact in what his opinion is

there is no fact in his opinion 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

It's easy to say this after the 5-11 aeason, but what were you saying during the 14 season and playoff run?  Did you think we were in decline then?

Clearly

We had no safeties, ineffective cornerbacks, sub standard receivers, excepting T. Smith, but we still had veterans from the good drafting years and we had Kubiak. It's two years down from that road and things have changed further.

You have to remember how Rashad Melvin was hailed as the next McAllister by the faithful.  That's how deep it gets here.

The playoffs are not good enough, though I don't believe we will make the playoffs. A winning record is not good enough, though I don't believe we will have a winning record. It is not satisfactory to win a Championship every 12 years, though I don't believe we are nearly on a pace to do that now.

The Baltimore Ravens must dominate and be perennial contenders for the Championship. That is what we expect and our current leaders are no longer up to it.

[Winchester]

34 minutes ago, Danny D said:

Do you believe the rest of the league would sign up for the last 3 seasons?  What has been illustrated is a team in decline. When a team is In decline, the longer it goes on, the worse it gets. Tank92 understands the subject, he's just going to evaluate it upon whether we have another losing season or not.  The reason for the recent decline are the decisions of the last 7 years and as prefaced, especially the decisions of the last 4 years.  If you don't like the manner in which the topic is getting you to think, take a look at the Bengals drafts of the last 7 years and reply again.

When a team isn't making hay with 1st and 2nd round selections there is a problem.  Those blue highlights should be completely reversed. They should dominate the page and not accent it.

1st and 2nd rounders should predominantly be plug and play. Especially drafting as high as 6th. If they are not, someone has conditioned us with proprietary kool aid.

You make a lot of valid points. And a losing season again would mean ravens are declining. Team needs impact from this and last draft

Edited May 22, 2016 by Winchester

[redrum52]

4 minutes ago, Danny D said:

Clearly

We had no safeties, ineffective cornerbacks, sub standard receivers, excepting T. Smith, but we still had veterans from the good drafting years and we had Kubiak. It's two years down from that road and things have changed further.

You have to remember how Rashad Melvin was hailed as the next McAllister by the faithful.  That's how deep it gets here.

The playoffs are not good enough, though I don't believe we will make the playoffs. A winning record is not good enough, though I don't believe we will have a winning record. It is not satisfactory to win a Championship every 12 years, though I don't believe we are nearly on a pace to do that now.

The Baltimore Ravens must dominate and be perennial contenders for the Championship. That is what we expect and our current leaders are no longer up to it.

The Pats went 10 years without a championship.  I personally hate watching my team make and then lose a championship.  Can't win one every year.  The Bears (an original team) only have one ring.  They're not that easy to get.  Also, we've beaten teams that were previously undefeated in the big game to get ours.  I'll take it.

[BmoreBird22]

6 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

The Pats went 10 years without a championship.  I personally hate watching my team make and then lose a championship.  Can't win one every year.  The Bears (an original team) only have one ring.  They're not that easy to get.  Also, we've beaten teams that were previously undefeated in the big game to get ours.  I'll take it.

Pretty sure several teams don't even have a ring yet.

[Cville-Raven]

20 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Pretty sure several teams don't even have a ring yet.

It's quite a bit more than several and then you have teams like the Chiefs and Jets who haven't won it in over 40 years.

[redrum52]

23 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Pretty sure several teams don't even have a ring yet.

Off the top... Bengals, Browns, Eagles, Cardinals, Panthers and Lions.  Lions and Browns haven't even made it to a SB and they are OLD franchises.

[Tank 92]

Right, and right. It's difficult for any team to keep a squad together and remain a perennial contender.  And not to make excuses, but the Ravens had a lot going against them last year. Huge amounts of dead money(RR finally off the books!), extremely bad fortune with injuries and a quirky schedule, none of that helped. 

I'm not saying there's a guaranteed return to the top, but IMO we will definitely see an upturn and also will have a lot more fun watching our team this year. 

[Tiznut]

1 hour ago, Cville-Raven said:

It's quite a bit more than several and then you have teams like the Chiefs and Jets who haven't won it in over 40 years.

Winning 2 since 1996 is quite an accomplishment but the damn pats make it easy to down play it.  

[Tank 92]

2 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

Winning 2 since 1996 is quite an accomplishment but the damn pats make it easy to down play it.  

Just for fun, think about the pats playing in the AFC North instead of East. That should fix any thoughts of down playing the Ravens' accomplishments.