My take on the draft and the Offseason

[Winchester]

1 hour ago, Sami84 said:

would love to see an upgrade at C though

Urschel was really physical at center when he adjusted to snapping the ball. He was really dominant the last couple games. Harbs went out of his way several times at interviews to sing his delight for Urschels physical play the last couple games. He is 6'3 320 lbs and a very good athlete. His workout numbers are really good as well. Zuttah is getting older and coming off injury. And is more of a stalemate blocker than a dominant block winner.

4 hours ago, Sami84 said:

Monroe is a far superior player than wagner when healthy. I guess we could try stanley at gaurd IF he gains a lot more strength. It really comes down to if Wagner was a one year wonder or not ( injury reasons or not)..

Sami, you really really know your stuff!! But I'm  not really so sure about that. I mean, He could be better, but Wagner was very dominant in 2014. He was the clear best right tackle. He was underrated coming out of college. Strong with really good workout numbers. He played jj watt very well at college practice. There should be competition. As for Stanley he will need to get a lot stronger to effectively play guard. In my opinion Ron Stanley and Monroe should compete for left tackle. However with Monroe's injuries Stanley will end up at left tackle. If Ron Stanley wins left tackle then Monroe and Wagner compete for right tackle. If it is a close race then Ron Stanley should get the job. The idea is for Ron Stanley to win left tackle. He is the #6 overall pick. Early round rookies are playing in the modern nfl. Especially if Tunsil plays week1 and lights it up and Ron Stanley can not win the left tackle job there will be mutiny!! Especially if ravens begin losing games

[Sami84]

9 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Urschel was really physical at center when he adjusted to snapping the ball. He was really dominant the last couple games. Harbs went out of his way several times at interviews to sing his delight for Urschels physical play the last couple games. He is 6'3 320 lbs and a very good athlete. His workout numbers are really good as well. Zuttah is getting older and coming off injury. And is more of a stalemate blocker than a dominant block winner.

Sami, you really really know your stuff!! But I'm  not really so sure about that. I mean, He could be better, but Wagner was very dominant in 2014. He was the clear best right tackle. He was underrated coming out of college. Strong with really good workout numbers. He played jj watt very well at college practice. There should be competition. As for Stanley he will need to get a lot stronger to effectively play guard. In my opinion Ron Stanley and Monroe should compete for left tackle. However with Monroe's injuries Stanley will end up at left tackle. If Ron Stanley wins left tackle then Monroe and Wagner compete for right tackle. If it is a close race then Ron Stanley should get the job. The idea is for Ron Stanley to win left tackle. He is the #6 overall pick. Early round rookies are playing in the modern nfl. Especially if Tunsil plays week1 and lights it up and Ron Stanley can not win the left tackle job there will be mutiny!! Especially if ravens begin losing games

 

True...you know though, those lisfranc injuries are awful and really affect back pedal speed which for a tackle is pretty pivotal..i liked wagner out of college and i thought we got a steal with him, i just know that these injuries can be the difference between 2014 and the 2015 season. As for tunsil, the dolphins have already stated he will start at LG and albert is the LT for the season. Obviously albert will be cut after the seasons end and it will be tunsils job. As for Urschel, I honestly didn't notice anything ''great'' last year..he had a few above average games and some below average. Lets see if he can take a step up this year. I'm all for a big competition for the center spot.

[harfordravenfan]

25 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Urschel was really physical at center when he adjusted to snapping the ball. He was really dominant the last couple games. Harbs went out of his way several times at interviews to sing his delight for Urschels physical play the last couple games. He is 6'3 320 lbs and a very good athlete. His workout numbers are really good as well. Zuttah is getting older and coming off injury. And is more of a stalemate blocker than a dominant block winner.

Sami, you really really know your stuff!! But I'm  not really so sure about that. I mean, He could be better, but Wagner was very dominant in 2014. He was the clear best right tackle. He was underrated coming out of college. Strong with really good workout numbers. He played jj watt very well at college practice. There should be competition. As for Stanley he will need to get a lot stronger to effectively play guard. In my opinion Ron Stanley and Monroe should compete for left tackle. However with Monroe's injuries Stanley will end up at left tackle. If Ron Stanley wins left tackle then Monroe and Wagner compete for right tackle. If it is a close race then Ron Stanley should get the job. The idea is for Ron Stanley to win left tackle. He is the #6 overall pick. Early round rookies are playing in the modern nfl. Especially if Tunsil plays week1 and lights it up and Ron Stanley can not win the left tackle job there will be mutiny!! Especially if ravens begin losing games

Gotta agree, don't recall Monroe ever being considered even close to the best at his position (albeit a tougher position to play)

[Sami84]

1 minute ago, harfordravenfan said:

Gotta agree, don't recall Monroe ever being considered even close to the best at his position (albeit a tougher position to play)

Monroe when healthy is a better tackle than wagner..c'mon now...in his first season here he was REALLY good..he was healthy. Hes only just turned 29 also. 

[harfordravenfan]

3 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

Monroe when healthy is a better tackle than wagner..c'mon now...in his first season here he was REALLY good..he was healthy. Hes only just turned 29 also. 

Left tackle is by far more important and difficult to play. I'm just saying he ain't the best left tackle out there or even top 5 but Wagner is clearly top 5 at right tackle 

[Sami84]

17 minutes ago, harfordravenfan said:

Left tackle is by far more important and difficult to play. I'm just saying he ain't the best left tackle out there or even top 5 but Wagner is clearly top 5 at right tackle 

 

 i never said he was a top 5 tackle in the NFL. When he was healthy though he was probably between the 7th to 10th best left tackle and that is not shabby. as a right tackle he would be easily the best. Btw i have Lane Johnson as the best RT in the league.

[harfordravenfan]

14 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

 i never said he was a top 5 tackle in the NFL. When he was healthy though he was probably between the 7th to 10th best left tackle and that is not shabby. as a right tackle he would be easily the best. Btw i have Lane Johnson as the best RT in the league.

Not the "be all" but PFF rated lane the 10th best in 2015

[Sami84]

Just now, harfordravenfan said:

Not the "be all" but PFF rated lane the 10th best in 2015

just going by my eye test...at RT i've been mighty impressed with lane johnson for the past 2 seasons.

[harfordravenfan]

3 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

just going by my eye test...at RT i've been mighty impressed with lane johnson for the past 2 seasons.

Definitely a great player and wouldn't surprise me if he moved to the left side within a year or two 

[ludy51]

17 minutes ago, harfordravenfan said:

Definitely a great player and wouldn't surprise me if he moved to the left side within a year or two 

That's what the Eagles say they've got planned for him

[sflegend89]

Correa might actually be the best pure 3-4 pass rusher in this entire draft. Now he's not even close to being as complete of a player as Bosa in terms of also being able to set the edge and factor into the run game. But if you're just talking pass rush specialist Correa is your guy. Quickest first step off the LOS out of all the edge's, once he smartens up a bit and learns the tricks of the trade from Suggs/Doom he could be a dangerous guy in passing situations. Very much in the mold of an Elvis Dumervil, short arms, but makes up for it with superior burst and technique. Not a 3 down player but a very proficient pass rush specialist.

 

However he needs to get a go-to pass rush move, he can't just rely on his athleticism at the NFL level, if he can upgrade his pass rush arsenal he will be a player for us. 

Edited May 23, 2016 by sflegend89

[Sami84]

1 minute ago, sflegend89 said:

Correa might actually be the best pure 3-4 pass rusher in this entire draft. Now he's not even close to being as complete of a player as Bosa in terms of also being able to set the edge and factor into the run game. But if you're just talking pass rush specialist Correa is your guy. Quickest first step off the LOS out of all the edge's, once he smartens up a bit and learns the tricks of the trade from Suggs/Doom he could be a dangerous guy in passing situations. Very much in the mold of an Elvis Dumervil, short arms, but makes up for it with superior burst and technique. Not a 3 down player but a very proficient pass rush specialist.

 

This is where football IQ has to set in. Being able to read plays, thats the difference between a 2 down and 3 down linesman ( regardless of which down they are out for). Im rooting for correa btw. This isnt a matt elam situation where I lost respect for the front office and their scouting.

[jazz1988]

4 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

Zuttah has been average at best and I wouldn't be surprised if we checked out Ryan Jensen or John Urschel at Center. 

Zuttah  rated as the  12th best center in the league before he was placed on I.r . Not sure if that's average play even though it may not be elite.

Edited May 23, 2016 by jazz1988

[Jacquouille]

39 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

This is where football IQ has to set in. Being able to read plays, thats the difference between a 2 down and 3 down linesman ( regardless of which down they are out for). Im rooting for correa btw. This isnt a matt elam situation where I lost respect for the front office and their scouting.

Is it so bad to be a 2-down LB with the pletora of rushers we are currently developping? I mean I wouldn't blink an eye if we used a constant rotation like Bama (not comparing anything except for the use of a rotation kay?)

[Sami84]

2 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Is it so bad to be a 2-down LB with the pletora of rushers we are currently developping? I mean I wouldn't blink an eye if we used a constant rotation like Bama (not comparing anything except for the use of a rotation kay?)

 

I guess not....i just wonder where he is going to get the snaps from? think about it..

[Jacquouille]

6 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

I guess not....i just wonder where he is going to get the snaps from? think about it..

Btw, I'm not saying I'd like him to be a 2-down player, just saying if that's the floor it's not horrible. 

Correa can play OLB in either a 3-4, or a 4-3, depending on the package. In the 3-4 he has the physical tools but needs technique. In the 4-3 he can be a devastating blitzer and edge setter but I'm not sure if he'll ever be able to cover. But that would be okay if we just ask him to cover a zone. 

There is talent. I'm not expecting instant coffee but given time he may be a very important piece to our defense. 

[Winchester]

53 minutes ago, sflegend89 said:

Correa might actually be the best pure 3-4 pass rusher in this entire draft. Now he's not even close to being as complete of a player as Bosa in terms of also being able to set the edge and factor into the run game. But if you're just talking pass rush specialist Correa is your guy. Quickest first step off the LOS out of all the edge's, once he smartens up a bit and learns the tricks of the trade from Suggs/Doom he could be a dangerous guy in passing situations. Very much in the mold of an Elvis Dumervil, short arms, but makes up for it with superior burst and technique. Not a 3 down player but a very proficient pass rush specialist.

 

However he needs to get a go-to pass rush move, he can't just rely on his athleticism at the NFL level, if he can upgrade his pass rush arsenal he will be a player for us. 

Correa has a fast takeoff but I would not say the fastest. It is similar to Spence and Ngakoue.  However the latter 2 can do things Correa can not. Correa can probably learn the lb position faster than spence,Ngakoue and effeciently to be a very good 4-3 olb that excels at blitzing. But as a 3-4 olb he doesn't have the wiggle,bend and slipperyess to consistently beat nfl tackles. But you line him up as a 4-3 strong side olb he can be a real x factor as a Blitzer as well as fast 3down olb. That can cover zones in a blink defend the run and blitz

[Sami84]

1 minute ago, Winchester said:

Correa has a fast takeoff but I would not say the fastest. It is similar to Spence and Ngakoue.  However the latter 2 can do things Correa can not. Correa can probably learn the lb position faster than spence,Ngakoue and effeciently to be a very good 4-3 olb that excels at blitzing. But as a 3-4 olb he doesn't have the wiggle,bend and slipperyess to consistently beat nfl tackles. But you line him up as a 4-3 strong side olb he can be a real x factor as a Blitzer as well as fast 3down olb. That can cover zones in a blink defend the run and blitz

 

winchester, I'm not a noah spence fan. Much like  i wasnt a fan of sergio kindle. I actually think correa has a better burst than spence. I actually see spence as a bigger bust prospect than correa. I really came away unimpressed at his tape. He's like a poor mans whitney mercilius.

[Sami84]

4 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Btw, I'm not saying I'd like him to be a 2-down player, just saying if that's the floor it's not horrible. 

Correa can play OLB in either a 3-4, or a 4-3, depending on the package. In the 3-4 he has the physical tools but needs technique. In the 4-3 he can be a devastating blitzer and edge setter but I'm not sure if he'll ever be able to cover. But that would be okay if we just ask him to cover a zone. 

There is talent. I'm not expecting instant coffee but given time he may be a very important piece to our defense. 

 

I've seen him cover TE's pretty well..lets see..its really about how much he picks up on an instinctive level. its always the case with linebackers.

[Jacquouille]

4 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

I've seen him cover TE's pretty well..lets see..its really about how much he picks up on an instinctive level. its always the case with linebackers.

CJ was also covering well in college, so I'm always wary about how this translates to the NFL. But I fully agree that he will need instincts and awareness. From what I've seen he's not completely lost so it's encouraging.

[Sami84]

1 minute ago, Jacquouille said:

CJ was also covering well in college, so I'm always wary about how this translates to the NFL. But I fully agree that he will need instincts and awareness. From what I've seen he's not completely lost so it's encouraging.

 

Instincts are more important than athletic ability when it comes to linebacker.

[Winchester]

9 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

winchester, I'm not a noah spence fan. Much like  i wasnt a fan of sergio kindle. I actually think correa has a better burst than spence. I actually see spence as a bigger bust prospect than correa. I really came away unimpressed at his tape. He's like a poor mans whitney mercilius.

That is a fair comparison. Spence is not elite just the consensus best prototype in this draft. For pure edge rush skills I like Ngakoue best.  Spence has more bend,elusiveness and agility than Correa. I couldn't find much bend in Correa's game

[Sami84]

2 minutes ago, Winchester said:

That is a fair comparison. Spence is not elite just the consensus best prototype in this draft. For pure edge rush skills I like Ngakoue best.  Spence has more bend,elusiveness and agility than Correa. I couldn't find much bend in Correa's game

 

Ngakoue is way too raw for my liking.Seen millions of Ngakoues come and go..Correas instincts are better. Ngakoue is a bit of an idiot at reading plays. Correa has bend, i just dont think he uses it enough?!! I think dumervil can help him there as hes the king of bend. 

[Sami84]

also winchester, its worth pointing out that correa even with a calf injury ran a pretty good 40  and a very good 10 second split. Without the injury you could be looking at a sub 1.6 split which is elite and not common. It was 1.61 with the slight calf issue. The biggest issue with correa is consistency with making the right decisions with his technique. I think he has a better motor than spence and Ngakoue. I actually really liked shaq lawson, his ceiling isnt super high ( i'd say chandler jones standard)but as an all round OLB/DE he's excellent. I have him ranked higher than Spence and Ngakoue. He's an all round player with good instincts. Kevin Dodd is awful and he can have all the sacks he wants it was based mostly on scheme. Think Jarvis Jones at georgia..People here were so worried and i just laughed and said he would never make it . I said the same thing about bud dupree and he was crap last year also..Linebacker is about instinct. Suggs wasn't the fastest coming out, nor would he have blown anyone away with his drill times, but he had immense instincts, power and hand technique.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Sami84

[BmoreBird22]

3 hours ago, Sami84 said:

True...you know though, those lisfranc injuries are awful 

This is very true that they are bad injuries, but it shouldn't be too much of a concern from here on out. Lisfranc injuries take about 11-13 months to fully recover from and in the second season, most players show the same level of play as before the injury.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, Winchester said:

Correa has a fast takeoff but I would not say the fastest. It is similar to Spence and Ngakoue.  However the latter 2 can do things Correa can not. Correa can probably learn the lb position faster than spence,Ngakoue and effeciently to be a very good 4-3 olb that excels at blitzing. But as a 3-4 olb he doesn't have the wiggle,bend and slipperyess to consistently beat nfl tackles. But you line him up as a 4-3 strong side olb he can be a real x factor as a Blitzer as well as fast 3down olb. That can cover zones in a blink defend the run and blitz

C'mon man you know that correa has the fastest first step in the class. You know Spence is overrated and if you pay more attention to game film rather than measurable then you also know ngakoue has a good chance of being an absolute nobody.

[DenverRaven]

2 hours ago, sflegend89 said:

Correa might actually be the best pure 3-4 pass rusher in this entire draft. Now he's not even close to being as complete of a player as Bosa in terms of also being able to set the edge and factor into the run game. But if you're just talking pass rush specialist Correa is your guy. Quickest first step off the LOS out of all the edge's, once he smartens up a bit and learns the tricks of the trade from Suggs/Doom he could be a dangerous guy in passing situations. Very much in the mold of an Elvis Dumervil, short arms, but makes up for it with superior burst and technique. Not a 3 down player but a very proficient pass rush specialist.

 

However he needs to get a go-to pass rush move, he can't just rely on his athleticism at the NFL level, if he can upgrade his pass rush arsenal he will be a player for us. 

Agree with this almost word-for-word. Correa is our next Doom. While I expect him to make some impact right away, I think he'll be groomed right now for a similar role to Doom's. I think Correa's 'make it / break it' comes down to how much he can learn from Suggs/Doom this year and potentially next. I'm not oversold on many rookies, but he's a great pick if he can give us 70-80% of Doom's production entering his third year. 

[Winchester]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

C'mon man you know that correa has the fastest first step in the class. You know Spence is overrated and if you pay more attention to game film rather than measurable then you also know ngakoue has a good chance of being an absolute nobody.

We will have to wait for the games to begin. Watch all the film you want. You have to know what counts and what doesnt. Tell me ONE play to view Correa bending the edge. All of his sacks are created by his burst to beat  subpar tackles. Look at Vic Beasley has better burst than Correa and is much stronger than correa. Yet he struggled cuz he only has moderate flexibility,moves,hand use. Yet his flexibility is a little  better than Correas. It is going to be interesting to see what everybody has to say when correa struggles if ravens try him at 43 defensive or 34 rush olb. It is like fans think it can argue a player into succeeding. And get defensive when somebody has an opinion that somebody may not work out at a particular position. Just because there is a need. A need at a position will not increase the likelihood of a draft pick being successful. Nobody really cared for Correa leading up to the draft. Now he is the best edge rusher in the draft.

[Winchester]

2 hours ago, Sami84 said:

also winchester, its worth pointing out that correa even with a calf injury ran a pretty good 40  and a very good 10 second split. Without the injury you could be looking at a sub 1.6 split which is elite and not common. It was 1.61 with the slight calf issue. The biggest issue with correa is consistency with making the right decisions with his technique. I think he has a better motor than spence and Ngakoue. I actually really liked shaq lawson, his ceiling isnt super high ( i'd say chandler jones standard)but as an all round OLB/DE he's excellent. I have him ranked higher than Spence and Ngakoue. He's an all round player with good instincts. Kevin Dodd is awful and he can have all the sacks he wants it was based mostly on scheme. Think Jarvis Jones at georgia..People here were so worried and i just laughed and said he would never make it . I said the same thing about bud dupree and he was crap last year also..Linebacker is about instinct. Suggs wasn't the fastest coming out, nor would he have blown anyone away with his drill times, but he had immense instincts, power and hand technique.

I did not like Jarvis Jones at all!! He is weak and slow. He has tons of moves that helped him in college. But to slow and no power for the nfl level. Dodd was the edge rusher I wanted ravens to sail clear of. I like Kufusi far better!! I really like Correas explosion, motor and intelligence. I just believe it all adds up to a stand out strong side olb in the 4-3 defensive scheme.

[Winchester]

6 hours ago, Sami84 said:

winchester, I'm not a noah spence fan. Much like  i wasnt a fan of sergio kindle. I actually think correa has a better burst than spence. I actually see spence as a bigger bust prospect than correa. I really came away unimpressed at his tape. He's like a poor mans whitney mercilius.

Actually I'm not being harsh on Correa. Nothing wrong witb him being a physical 3down olb that is an X factor as a blitzer. Spence Ngakoue are better benders but that is not saying much. This isn't a good draft for edge rushers at all. It is conceivable that no edge rusher in this class is going to be perennial double digit sack producers outside of Bosa/Kufusi.  That is where Ozzie Decosta angers me. I been saying a couple yrs now ravens need a young explosive edge rusher. Suggs Dumervil aging yet Ozzie Decosta ignore edge rusher in 2 drafts rich in edge rushers. Then a terrible draft for edge rusher comes around and ravens want edge rushers even if It means reaching for one when better players are available at different positions.

 

7 hours ago, Sami84 said:

just going by my eye test...at RT i've been mighty impressed with lane johnson for the past 2 seasons.

lane has put on considerable muscle since coming into the league. Thus has played very well while Fisher Joeckel struggled terribly!! Lane has got far stronger and it is the difference in his dominant play. He has put on about 16 lbs or so of functional symmetrical muscle since being drafted. If Ron Stanley could do the same he will be a perennial all pro left tackle. Dbrickshaw came into the nfl needing functional muscle. He never added much muscle. It is the difference in him being good and an elite left tackle and  He was good never elite

Edited May 24, 2016 by Winchester