Revisiting the 2014 NFL Draft

[Sami84]

Here is a better question

 

you have khalil mack on your roster

 

he's looking like a HOF player

 

Do you trade him for Jernigan and Mosely?

 

 

i think all raven fans know the answer to this one.

 

Turn it around.

 

SOmeone at the raiders FO is drunk..and offers Mack for Mosely and Jernigan.

 

I think everyone takes the deal.

[trevorsteadman]

2 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

Here is a better question

 

you have khalil mack on your roster

 

he's looking like a HOF player

 

Do you trade him for Jernigan and Mosely?

 

 

i think all raven fans know the answer to this one.

 

Turn it around.

 

SOmeone at the raiders FO is drunk..and offers Mack for Mosely and Jernigan.

 

I think everyone takes the deal.

I would be questioning at this point what hospital Mack was in to start up these trade talks.

[trevorsteadman]

On 5/20/2016 at 1:37 AM, Winchester said:

I do not like the Weddle or Wallace signings. Both are over their prime. Weddle was clearly not the same player last year and the chargers wanted no part of shelling out a big contract to him. Wallace is turning 30 and never was more than a deep guy. Weddle played the leader card and ravens took the bait. But he still needs to be a player. He is coming off a down year and a year older. Same with wallace

That is what a lot of people said about Steve Smith coming here. Then he has been the light for our offense. Weddle is far from out of his prime, and he plays safety which is a position you can have a longer career at. Wallace is fast just like Jacoby was and he was about the same age when playing for us. We just need him to run far. Perriman will be the Torrey Smith of our offense next season. Wallace is closer to his prime but Weddle I would highly disagree.

[RavensDieHard21]

On 5/23/2016 at 9:16 AM, trevorsteadman said:

Really? I would actually rather have Wallace and Weddle over KO for next season. Interesting...

Ehhh no chance, even though retaining KO at a $60 million price tag to play guard was not feasible, having KO to go with Yanda again with a healthy Wagner and still picking Stanley most likely, gives us an unbelievably nasty line for years. But once again, that is a high price tag for one unit, but if we look back at 2014 or the Dallas Cowboys, an elite offensive line means incredible success for your offense. 

[Jacquouille]

19 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Ehhh no chance, even though retaining KO at a $60 million price tag to play guard was not feasible, having KO to go with Yanda again with a healthy Wagner and still picking Stanley most likely, gives us an unbelievably nasty line for years. But once again, that is a high price tag for one unit, but if we look back at 2014 or the Dallas Cowboys, an elite offensive line means incredible success for your offense. 

We have guys in Urschel and Jensen that have proven to be reliable and will be ready to step in KO's shoes come next season. As much as I like KO, he had his share of injuries and if you're asking me between him and a top3 S (and don't bring the age argument, we've proven a dozen times it's ridiculous), and in bonus a deep threat to complement BP, I'm not hesitating, knowing we have the guys to replace him smoothly.

 

[RavensDieHard21]

13 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

We have guys in Urschel and Jensen that have proven to be reliable and will be ready to step in KO's shoes come next season. As much as I like KO, he had his share of injuries and if you're asking me between him and a top3 S (and don't bring the age argument, we've proven a dozen times it's ridiculous), and in bonus a deep threat to complement BP, I'm not hesitating, knowing we have the guys to replace him smoothly.

 

To each their own, top 3 safety is too high though lmao, maybe 5, but probably not moving forward. Mathieu, Thomas, Chancellor, Gipson, McCourty, and quickly rising is Harrison Smith. Weddle has always been a great tackler, leader, and is intelligent, but he is not nearly the game changer or force that those listed above have been over the past several seasons. 

Wallace is a speed merchant whom I like as an addition, but he would not by any means add weight to the case to sign Weddle instead of KO. KO also is a top 5 guard, perhaps a top 2 run blocker, who has had a lot greater body of work then either Jensen or Urschel,which has proven consist, meaning more valuable then a game plan to hope for a back up to step up

[Winchester]

On 5/23/2016 at 9:21 AM, Sami84 said:

Here is a better question

 

you have khalil mack on your roster

 

he's looking like a HOF player

 

Do you trade him for Jernigan and Mosely?

 

 

i think all raven fans know the answer to this one.

 

Turn it around.

 

SOmeone at the raiders FO is drunk..and offers Mack for Mosely and Jernigan.

 

I think everyone takes the deal.

It is stunning how many fans will argue ravens are better off with Mosley and jernigan than mack. And Ozzie Decosta get excused for not knowing what Mack would become. Because nobody could of known that so you can not blame him

[RaineV1]

3 minutes ago, Winchester said:

It is stunning how many fans will argue ravens are better off with Mosley and jernigan than mack. And Ozzie Decosta get excused for not knowing what Mack would become. Because nobody could of known that so you can not blame him

Or people don't want our team trading future first round picks for player, since that's what it would have taken to move up to that spot. The Raiders weren't going to let him go for just a first and a second.

[usmccharles]

On ‎5‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 6:21 AM, Sami84 said:

Here is a better question

you have khalil mack on your roster

he's looking like a HOF player

Do you trade him for Jernigan and Mosely?

i think all raven fans know the answer to this one.

Turn it around.

SOmeone at the raiders FO is drunk..and offers Mack for Mosely and Jernigan.

I think everyone takes the deal.

Go back some pages and you can see a big debate about this exact topic.  Long story short- some people on here are willing to give up 3-5 players for one, some aren't.  Points can be made on either. 

44 minutes ago, Winchester said:

It is stunning how many fans will argue ravens are better off with Mosley and jernigan than mack. And Ozzie Decosta get excused for not knowing what Mack would become. Because nobody could of known that so you can not blame him

This again....really....

Edited May 25, 2016 by usmccharles

[JoeyFlex5]

15 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Ehhh no chance, even though retaining KO at a $60 million price tag to play guard was not feasible, having KO to go with Yanda again with a healthy Wagner and still picking Stanley most likely, gives us an unbelievably nasty line for years. But once again, that is a high price tag for one unit, but if we look back at 2014 or the Dallas Cowboys, an elite offensive line means incredible success for your offense. 

Guards are replaceable and when KO was injured, which was often, our line didn't skip a beat. 

[Sami84]

6 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Guards are replaceable and when KO was injured, which was often, our line didn't skip a beat. 

true. KO is an very good gaurd. he isnt an Evan Mathis, Yanda, Martin or going back a Hutchinson. He's a good player(who really overrates himself), not a great one. I actually think he was jealous of yanda. I remember him saying things about ''gonna show im better than yanda'' a few seasons back etc

Edited May 25, 2016 by Sami84

[Jacquouille]

1 hour ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

To each their own, top 3 safety is too high though lmao, maybe 5, but probably not moving forward. Mathieu, Thomas, Chancellor, Gipson, McCourty, and quickly rising is Harrison Smith. Weddle has always been a great tackler, leader, and is intelligent, but he is not nearly the game changer or force that those listed above have been over the past several seasons. 

Wallace is a speed merchant whom I like as an addition, but he would not by any means add weight to the case to sign Weddle instead of KO. KO also is a top 5 guard, perhaps a top 2 run blocker, who has had a lot greater body of work then either Jensen or Urschel,which has proven consist, meaning more valuable then a game plan to hope for a back up to step up

Okay top5, but that is because I include Berry and Chancellor and Gipson have no business being in front of Weddle. Chancellor is a product of the scheme (that's harsh because he's a good player but he is helped a lot by Seattle scheme) and Gipson is good, not great.

I agree on Wallace, I don't expect much of him, that's why I described him as a bonus.

If you mean that KO is better than Jensen/Urschel then yes, but our OL will be fine without him. Was our secondary fine without Weddle? You know the answer. Will it be fine with Weddle? To me yes, and that is the simple, arithmetic difference between KO and Weddle for us. 

[Sami84]

Just now, Jacquouille said:

Okay top5, but that is because I include Berry and Chancellor and Gipson have no business being in front of Weddle. Chancellor is a product of the scheme (that's harsh because he's a good player but he is helped a lot by Seattle scheme) and Gipson is good, not great.

I agree on Wallace, I don't expect much of him, that's why I described him as a bonus.

If you mean that KO is better than Jensen/Urschel then yes, but our OL will be fine without him. Was our secondary fine without Weddle? You know the answer. Will it be fine with Weddle? To me yes, and that is the simple, arithmetic difference between KO and Weddle for us. 

1

i think will hill is a bigger loss than KO.

[Jacquouille]

Just now, Sami84 said:

i think will hill is a bigger loss than KO.

Agreed ten times. Hill and Weddle, I was so ecstatic.

[usmccharles]

37 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

i think will hill is a bigger loss than KO.

Agreed, but cant blame the FO for cutting ties

[JoeyFlex5]

On 5/23/2016 at 9:21 AM, Sami84 said:

Here is a better question

 

you have khalil mack on your roster

 

he's looking like a HOF player

 

Do you trade him for Jernigan and Mosely?

 

 

i think all raven fans know the answer to this one.

 

Turn it around.

 

SOmeone at the raiders FO is drunk..and offers Mack for Mosely and Jernigan.

 

I think everyone takes the deal.

Is it that cut and dry though? I'm pretty sure the raiders would have wanted more than just our 2nd and a future first was likely in the mix. 

 

Trading a future first can really throw an unforeseen wrench in your future building plans. Let's say we wanted to move up in 15 for say, Fowler jr, that would have certainly taken a future first. We had no clue we even had a chance of going 5-11 at the time, so if we make that move we end up losing the 6th overall pick the following year. Its all hypothetical here but looking back on past drafts is always done in hindsight which makes it a lot easier to criticize decisions. If you make a blockbuster trade to move up which involves a future first, then that player better be able to single handedly lower the value of the pick you traded to get him, so if that player doesn't lead to a playoff season and you miss out on a high pick, then you slipped up. 

 

Now of course, even with this argument we obviously still want mack, but that's still with hindsight, a luxury we didn't have at the time. I'm personally almost always against a future first because if something goes terribly wrong with your season then you lose out on a high draft pick and it's all unpredictable.

[usmccharles]

22 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Is it that cut and dry though? I'm pretty sure the raiders would have wanted more than just our 2nd and a future first was likely in the mix. 

Trading a future first can really throw an unforeseen wrench in your future building plans. Let's say we wanted to move up in 15 for say, Fowler jr, that would have certainly taken a future first. We had no clue we even had a chance of going 5-11 at the time, so if we make that move we end up losing the 6th overall pick the following year. Its all hypothetical here but looking back on past drafts is always done in hindsight which makes it a lot easier to criticize decisions. If you make a blockbuster trade to move up which involves a future first, then that player better be able to single handedly lower the value of the pick you traded to get him, so if that player doesn't lead to a playoff season and you miss out on a high pick, then you slipped up. 

Now of course, even with this argument we obviously still want mack, but that's still with hindsight, a luxury we didn't have at the time. I'm personally almost always against a future first because if something goes terribly wrong with your season then you lose out on a high draft pick and it's all unpredictable.

Man how many times are we going to do this? I honestly just point to the Julio Jones trade, I don't think it was worth it for the Falcons.  In my opinion the only time you make these type of trades is for a franchise QB. 

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, usmccharles said:

Man how many times are we going to do this? I honestly just point to the Julio Jones trade, I don't think it was worth it for the Falcons.  In my opinion the only time you make these type of trades is for a franchise QB. 

I agree. And you better have a strong roster in place before you make that move. That's why I applud the rams trade and smh at the eagles. 

[usmccharles]

3 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I agree. And you better have a strong roster in place before you make that move. That's why I applud the rams trade and smh at the eagles. 

Exactly.  Most rosters cant handle that type of trade.  When is the last team to do a trade like that and consistently be a contender? I can think of one.  Rams have a good balanced team and if Goff is what people think they could have a great foundation, they still need help at WR though.  Eagles have a lot of work to do...a lot.

Edited May 25, 2016 by usmccharles

[JoeyFlex5]

14 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Exactly.  Most rosters cant handle that type of trade.  When is the last team to do a trade like that and consistently be a contender? I can think of one.  Rams have a good balanced team and if Goff is what people think they could have a great foundation, they still need help at WR though.  Eagles have a lot of work to do...a lot.

Goff could be one of those guys who doesn't need wrs to succeed. Flacco is smart, performs well in the clutch, moves well in the pocket for the most part, and can zip the ball with serious velocity to complete passes most qbs couldn't, Goff does all this too, and just like Flacco he needs to have more consistent mechanics to cut down on errant throws but with a balanced offense he should be able to really deliver when called upon. I think the rams will slowly progress into a juggernaut now that they have a qb, all it takes at this point is one solid wr to really get them going, a franchise qb, elite rb, and too shelf defense is always a winning formula. The ravens have been in limbo for a few years and have been far from a complete roster but still being relatively competitive, we need to round out the team before making a big splash. Until we address the future of our safeties, cbs, and pass rush(which I think still needs work since dumersizzle is on it way out) then we can't afford such moves. 

[usmccharles]

1 minute ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Goff could be one of those guys who doesn't need wrs to succeed. Flacco is smart, performs well in the clutch, moves well in the pocket for the most part, and can zip the ball with serious velocity to complete passes most qbs couldn't, Goff does all this too, and just like Flacco he needs to have more consistent mechanics to cut down on errant throws but with a balanced offense he should be able to really deliver when called upon. I think the rams will slowly progress into a juggernaut now that they have a qb, all it takes at this point is one solid wr to really get them going, a franchise qb, elite rb, and too shelf defense is always a winning formula. The ravens have been in limbo for a few years and have been far from a complete roster but still being relatively competitive, we need to round out the team before making a big splash. Until we address the future of our safeties, cbs, and pass rush(which I think still needs work since dumersizzle is on it way out) then we can't afford such moves. 

Yea, having Gurley is going to be huge for the progression of Goff.  You can almost say they are like the Ravens before we had a QB. 

[JoeyFlex5]

1 minute ago, usmccharles said:

Yea, having Gurley is going to be huge for the progression of Goff.  You can almost say they are like the Ravens before we had a QB. 

I think it's eerily similar. If they took wentz I'd be wondering if Fisher was taking hints from harbaugh lol

[Somerset Ravens]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Goff could be one of those guys who doesn't need wrs to succeed. Flacco is smart, performs well in the clutch, moves well in the pocket for the most part, and can zip the ball with serious velocity to complete passes most qbs couldn't, Goff does all this too, and just like Flacco he needs to have more consistent mechanics to cut down on errant throws but with a balanced offense he should be able to really deliver when called upon. I think the rams will slowly progress into a juggernaut now that they have a qb, all it takes at this point is one solid wr to really get them going, a franchise qb, elite rb, and too shelf defense is always a winning formula. The ravens have been in limbo for a few years and have been far from a complete roster but still being relatively competitive, we need to round out the team before making a big splash. Until we address the future of our safeties, cbs, and pass rush(which I think still needs work since dumersizzle is on it way out) then we can't afford such moves. 

I am anxious to see if Goff can handle the mental aspect of the pro game. Can he read defenses ? Can he perform well in the face of a strong pass rush ?  It will be interesting to see how he develops.

[JoeyFlex5]

48 minutes ago, Somerset Ravens said:

I am anxious to see if Goff can handle the mental aspect of the pro game. Can he read defenses ? Can he perform well in the face of a strong pass rush ?  It will be interesting to see how he develops.

Wasn't he regarded as a pretty cerebral type of qb? Handling pro style pressures is a totally different story from handling NFL playbooks but if I'm not mistaken he should be ok in that regard.

[Purple_City39]

3 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Exactly.  Most rosters cant handle that type of trade.  When is the last team to do a trade like that and consistently be a contender? I can think of one.  Rams have a good balanced team and if Goff is what people think they could have a great foundation, they still need help at WR though.  Eagles have a lot of work to do...a lot.

I would love for one of the "should have traded x, y, z, so I can be happy we have an "elite" player" people to answer this one.  I sat here and tried to think about it but I also can't remember the last time a big trade was done that led to that team being a consistent contender either.

Teams that consistently draft in the top 5 (Browns, Raiders, Jaguars) struggle to get better after multiple years.  The Browns are still expected to suck, the Jags are finally expected to do something for the first time since Jones-Drew had that big injury and the Raiders are hoping to be #2 in the division after multiple high draft picks............but we should trade multiple picks for the chance to draft one player?  I just don't get it.  

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

On 5/25/2016 at 10:12 AM, Purple_City39 said:

I would love for one of the "should have traded x, y, z, so I can be happy we have an "elite" player" people to answer this one.  I sat here and tried to think about it but I also can't remember the last time a big trade was done that led to that team being a consistent contender either.

Teams that consistently draft in the top 5 (Browns, Raiders, Jaguars) struggle to get better after multiple years.  The Browns are still expected to suck, the Jags are finally expected to do something for the first time since Jones-Drew had that big injury and the Raiders are hoping to be #2 in the division after multiple high draft picks............but we should trade multiple picks for the chance to draft one player?  I just don't get it.  

It's not quite the same, but the Seahawks traded 3-4 picks last year to move up in the 3rd for Lockette. I know its the 3rd round, and not to grab a guy at the top... but they traded most of their late picks to target one guy, so in essence its similar.

But, I get that its not the same or really what youre looking for.

[RavensDieHard21]

On 5/25/2016 at 3:32 AM, Sami84 said:

true. KO is an very good gaurd. he isnt an Evan Mathis, Yanda, Martin or going back a Hutchinson. He's a good player(who really overrates himself), not a great one. I actually think he was jealous of yanda. I remember him saying things about ''gonna show im better than yanda'' a few seasons back etc

I mean Yanda is the best guard in the league and has been for three years straight now, so it is hard to compare, but KO was no slouch by any means and many people like to believe that guard is a position that can be easily re-filled with anyone. Urschel is well-rounded, but not dominant at either run or pass blocking, just solid at both, which I will take for the price of his services once that is factored in. For the past two seasons though, almost any analyst would have said KO and Yanda were the best guard combo, that's because of how well KO complimented Yanda. Just watch the 2014 playoffs against Pitt and NE. State that it was because of Kubiak's system if you want, but that system just allowed the maulers to be maulers instead of Trestman's where 65% of plays were passes. KO and Yanda literally bull dozed their defensive lineman and the pats could not even stop the run with a loaded box! We were ripped off 5-10 yard runs every down. 

[RavensDieHard21]

On 5/25/2016 at 3:36 AM, Sami84 said:

i think will hill is a bigger loss than KO.

some of you kill me on here lol Hill was a great enforcer at times and made some really big plays, but he was a flash then disappear player as he very often blew coverage assignments and gave up huge plays. I like his style of play, but sadly, reefer is life for Will Hill

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

some of you kill me on here lol Hill was a great enforcer at times and made some really big plays, but he was a flash then disappear player as he very often blew coverage assignments and gave up huge plays. I like his style of play, but sadly, reefer is life for Will Hill

Agreed. Will hill made some bonehead plays and freelanced and abandoned his assignments. He tried to be ed reed and he failed often. His splash plays could have easily been negated by his blown plays for a breakeven kind of contribution, which isn't stellar. Hill would be very good on a loaded defense where he could freelance but we need guys who play sound and consistent to help us get out of this hole on defense

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Agreed. Will hill made some bonehead plays and freelanced and abandoned his assignments. He tried to be ed reed and he failed often. His splash plays could have easily been negated by his blown plays for a breakeven kind of contribution, which isn't stellar. Hill would be very good on a loaded defense where he could freelance but we need guys who play sound and consistent to help us get out of this hole on defense

Surprisingly, early in the season when Hill was rated as like a top 3 safety (per PFF)  our Pass D was AWFUL. Then, when Hill started playing bad (bottom 10% per PFF) and we went more with Webb and Kendrick we vastly improved and had the best pass D in the league over the 2nd half.

While he was a good player, and I liked him a lot i think the secondary and in particular the safety play is going to be a lot better this year.