Revisiting the 2014 NFL Draft

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

As important as cornerstones are, who the hell was ours during our SB run? Injured ngata? Old man Ray? Old man Ed? Injured Suggs? No. We rode Flacco. Whether you want to admit it or not, we rode him to the promise land. He had one of the greatest posteasons in NFL history with a borderline #1 WR, a one trick pony deep threat in Torrey, Jacoby Jones who has an occasional big drop, and a very good TE with a good RB. I know we all like to glorify Boldin, but reality is, while he was very good he wasn't the WR god people made him out to be. He was more than critical to the run, but Flacco activated his god mode. That's our cornerstone. Our defense was beat up, and ironically the worst one I've ever seen win a SB. We had good depth. As important as cornerstones are, you can't win a SB without depth. 

And who the hell were we going to get this year?  Bosa. Probably had no chance even if we traded. We would've had to offer like an entire draft. No player is worth that. Look at Ricky Williams, good RB with a good career. But Saints gave up way too much for him. No player is worth that. Ramsey is the same deal. And Jack's knee is a ticking time bomb. Much as I would have loved to get him, I understand the logic there. If he injures his knee again it could be game over for his whole career. 

2014 provided us with a cornerstone in my eyes. CJ is someone you can build a defense around. Only MLBs I'd honestly take over him are Luke, Bowman, and Wagner. That's about it. CJ may have issues in coverage(which btw. It was his second season. He can improve), but is about fantastic in every other category. He's got a very high football  IQ and he plays with a fire. You're talking about someone who was a second team all pro his rookie year, and was pretty good this year. That's a cornerstone to me. I have no issues if we build a defense around CJ. He's young, already one of the best, and has nowhere to go but up. 

We got Jernigan who's a high level contributor. If he becomes a consistent pass rusher(he flashes, and is easily one of the better 3-4 Ends in the league already), that's a pro bowler on our hands. Urschel, while his play was overrated, has the talent and potential to become a full time starter and we got him in the 5th round. 

So you trade up for Mack, lose a bunch of depth and potential talent. We may have a superstar on our hands, but no depth meaning ironically we'd be in a way worse position than before. 

Again. I'm glad the fans don't run this team

I think the problem with people wanting this key guy, one big cornerstone guy (im at fault of this) is because we were blessed with Ray Lewis for 17 years.  The man is considered the best leader in sports of all time by many analysts and players.  But it spoiled us in a way, a player like that barely ever comes around, yes there are the Lukes and the Macks and the Rays talent wise... but who Ray was as a person and a leader really skews it for some fans.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

36 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I think the problem with people wanting this key guy, one big cornerstone guy (im at fault of this) is because we were blessed with Ray Lewis for 17 years.  The man is considered the best leader in sports of all time by many analysts and players.  But it spoiled us in a way, a player like that barely ever comes around, yes there are the Lukes and the Macks and the Rays talent wise... but who Ray was as a person and a leader really skews it for some fans.

This entire fan base is spoiled. Ironic coming from me as my childhood I was too. But this is far beyond anything I ever did. The fans act like they're entitled. I'm all for passion but the FO and Biscotti and co owe us nothing. They've given our city two rings in the span of 20 years. Which I'll take. We weren't just blessed with Lewis. We were blessed with Lewis and Reed. We had maybe the greatest MLB and greatest FS in NFL history on the same defense with another DPOY in Suggs, and a monster in Ngata. We had four cornerstones. All four are hall of fame level talent, and it wouldn't surprise me if all of them got in(though Ngata's chances are small).  That group for four won a SB. They were banged up and hurt, but they did. 

 

Guys, we're not gonna get a Ray Lewis, Ed Reed. Those two are once in a generation talents. We have a grand slam with those two. Mack is a monster but at the end of the day he is unlikely to become one of the greatest defensive players ever like those two have had. Cause those two are in the god tier of canton. I think there was three chances at getting a cornerstone this draft. We had a chance at only one because the injury risk. I would've taken Jack, but I understand why he didn't.

 

 

And I would not trade future depth for Khalil Mack. I just wouldn't. Elite player easily, but he's not worth mortgaging the future for. BmoreBird22 said it best, look a Julio Jones. Shocker, but Julio is one of maybe three WRs I've got for best WR in the NFL. ODB and Brown are the other two. But that draft set the Falcons back. They couldn't build a defense. Based off of last season where we had little to no depth, and our key players got hurt, we would be beyond screwed if that happened. I don't want to be Atlanta. We've had one fluke season where it was a perfect storm of injuries to key/critical players, and departures. Because of the latter we lacked depth specifically at pass rusher, which screwed us over when Suggs went down. So what does Ozzie go and do? He goes and gets Eric Weddle, we needed a leader in the secondary. He's got skills that do not diminish with age. He's got another 3-4 good years left and we can hopefully get it out of him. We go and give Flacco two more weapons in FA with a reliable Benjamin Watson, a good locker prescense and potential mentor for our duo, some much needed deep speed in Wallace. We also bring in some more competition at slot CB with Powers who has the potential to be a pretty decent signing. 

 

The draft? We got Joe protection. Ronnie Stanley may not be a sexy pick, but football is won more so in the trenches and Monroe has hit his ceiling. He's too fragile. Worst case scenario with Stanley is that he's our starting LT for maybe the next 8-9 years. We got more depth scattered along the front seven with specifically pass rush in mind. And if we trade up for Mack, the depth in all likelihood isn't possible here. Then the middle of the defense is screwed. 

 

 

As of right now, we have two holes on the team in my eyes. Who the hell is going to be the starting LG? Cause I'm sorry, I don't trust Jensen. I've said it a million times but the sample size is too damn small. And MLB(which judging by a few of the picks the last few years inclusive of Jenigan, Mosely, and Urban we seem to be moving to a defense with a lot more nickel looks in mind). I can live with the latter. Mosely isn't as terrible as most people make him out to be in coverage. He's not good but he's not exactly going to lose you games. I still want a coverage LB but it's unlikely now. 

 

So.. No. Without those draft picks replienishing much needed depth is impossible. I would trade Mosely straight up for Mack any day of the week, as Mosely is a damn good player in his own right. But I wouldn't trade an entire freaking draft for anyone basically. 

 

For the people claiming to be superior to Ozzie... That's a mistake right there that will more than likely set your team back a good 3-4 years.

 

[usmccharles]

4 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

This entire fan base is spoiled. Ironic coming from me as my childhood I was too. But this is far beyond anything I ever did. The fans act like they're entitled. I'm all for passion but the FO and Biscotti and co owe us nothing. They've given our city two rings in the span of 20 years. Which I'll take. We weren't just blessed with Lewis. We were blessed with Lewis and Reed. We had maybe the greatest MLB and greatest FS in NFL history on the same defense with another DPOY in Suggs, and a monster in Ngata. We had four cornerstones. All four are hall of fame level talent, and it wouldn't surprise me if all of them got in(though Ngata's chances are small).  That group for four won a SB. They were banged up and hurt, but they did. 

 

You know im agreeing with you right? lol

We definitely were spoiled having Ed and Ray together for so long.  Next to Deion I don't know if there was a better DB for ballhawking skills and playmaking.  But then add in Ngata and Suggs, its just insane the amount of talent we had but fans expect it to always be that way now.  I think Ngata will get in HoF but it may take some time. 

[Winchester]

So the Falcons are a bad team cuz of trading for julio?? Who did Cleveland get in return?? You could just as easily argue the trade made the browns terrible!! For the record the Falcons have not been a bad team cuz of the trade. Falcons struggled for several yrs cuz of screwing up with their draft picks since that. Why is it people  talk as if when you trade up for a player you do not get any draft picks at all for several more years?? It was 2 round1  picks or roumd1-3. Mack came from a smaller school and was not as touted. So the asking price was reasonable. Oz and Decosta do not like to pull the trigger on trades. Very conservative!! Attempted to get back into round1 with a round pick. Ravens trade up attempts failed again.  Do you think it's conceivable with all these failed trade up attempts that oz and eric will not part with what is necessary to move up?? Failed again to get back into round1 and round2. Not that I'm complaining cuz I liked the talent available in round4 in this draft. Ravens could of traded for mack and still have picks. It is not like the cost was 3 complete drafts!! Look at the redskins. Traded up for an overhyped qb that has no clue how to play the position and it costed 3 round1 picks. Yet redskins were a playoff team this year. Because management were smart with remaining picks and contracts!! But people talk as redskins do not have any picks at all cuz of that trade. Ravens not having any picks for role players if the team traded up for Mack is a ridiculous idea. But i get it. Most of this board will say or imply whatever it needs to frame the idea that every move by management is the right decision. Many here attempt to call Upshaw a good pick lol

[usmccharles]

8 hours ago, Winchester said:

So the Falcons are a bad team cuz of trading for julio?? Who did Cleveland get in return?? You could just as easily argue the trade made the browns terrible!! For the record the Falcons have not been a bad team cuz of the trade. Falcons struggled for several yrs cuz of screwing up with their draft picks since that. Why is it people  talk as if when you trade up for a player you do not get any draft picks at all for several more years?? It was 2 round1  picks or roumd1-3. Mack came from a smaller school and was not as touted. So the asking price was reasonable. Oz and Decosta do not like to pull the trigger on trades. Very conservative!! Attempted to get back into round1 with a round pick. Ravens trade up attempts failed again.  Do you think it's conceivable with all these failed trade up attempts that oz and eric will not part with what is necessary to move up?? Failed again to get back into round1 and round2. Not that I'm complaining cuz I liked the talent available in round4 in this draft. Ravens could of traded for mack and still have picks. It is not like the cost was 3 complete drafts!! Look at the redskins. Traded up for an overhyped qb that has no clue how to play the position and it costed 3 round1 picks. Yet redskins were a playoff team this year. Because management were smart with remaining picks and contracts!! But people talk as redskins do not have any picks at all cuz of that trade. Ravens not having any picks for role players if the team traded up for Mack is a ridiculous idea. But i get it. Most of this board will say or imply whatever it needs to frame the idea that every move by management is the right decision. Many here attempt to call Upshaw a good pick lol

Falcons were a bad team because they didn't have draft picks to add more players, again using the hindsight game goes both ways because look at the players they could of drafted if they didn't make that trade, especially since Alshon Jeffery would of been there with their 1st round pick (22) still.  I don't understand how you can make the argument that Julio has made a world of difference there, having won 1 playoff game since his acquisition.  Yes he may put up huge stats but how many teams with elite WRs are in the SB? 

Falcons gave up their 27th, 59th, 124th, year after 1st and 4th.  The team wasn't a WR away from winning a championship, obviously because they haven't.  So lets use the hindsight game like everyone likes to do here and say they didn't make the trade, they could of ended up with: Muhammad Wilkerson, Randall Cobb, Julius Thomas, Dont'a Hightower, Malik Jackson.... but that's COULD have.  They also could have had busts with all those picks, and Julio could of been a bust as well.  With more picks, the better chance you have of hitting on a guy. 

In 2013 Julio Jones played in 5 games, that's 1 more win than the Falcons had that entire year.  That's what happens when you lack depth. 

The Ravens have tried to trade up, but just because they don't means its a failure?  They have to have some type of line where its too much to give up.  I agree if you like a guy you should go get him, but to give all that up just for one guy is too much.  We got Mosely who isn't going to be what Mack is, but he is a great piece to be apart of a team.  The value of getting Mosley at 17 is far better than giving up 5 picks to get Mack (imo). 

Lets say we gave up what the Falcons Ravens did to get Mack, we wouldn't have gotten Mosley, Jernigan, We traded our 4th rounder to someone so add another player from somewhere in (maybe next year), then the next year we wouldn't of selected BP or one of the next three: Buck Allen, Z smith, Tray Walker.  All of which are contributors except the obvious (RIP). 

I don't know about college players as much as you do, but when we selected Upshaw, I was very unhappy, the guy just didn't look like a football player to me.  And ive said the FO missed on that pick numerous times.  You are right though, some fans will blindly give praise to the FO, I however like to think im objective, maybe more on the optimistic side but still.  Its all just opinion, and mine is that I don't think he would of been worth it considering the lack of talent everywhere else.  You yourself said we lack play makers, plural. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by usmccharles

[Winchester]

52 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Falcons were a bad team because they didn't have draft picks to add more players, again using the hindsight game goes both ways because look at the players they could of drafted if they didn't make that traded, especially since Alshon Jeffery would of been there with their 1st round pick (22) still.  I don't understand how you can make the argument that Julio has made a world of difference there, having won 1 playoff game since his acquisition.  Yes he may put up huge stats but how many teams with elite WRs are in the SB? 

Falcons gave up their 27th, 59th, 124th, year after 1st and 4th.  The team wasn't a WR away from winning a championship, obviously because they haven't.  So lets use the hindsight game like everyone likes to do here and say they didn't make the trade, they could of ended up with: Muhammad Wilkerson, Randall Cobb, Julius Thomas, Dont'a Hightower, Malik Jackson.... but that's COULD have.  They also could have had busts with all those picks, and Julio could of been a bust as well.  With more picks, the better chance you have of hitting on a guy. 

In 2013 Julio Jones played in 5 games, that's 1 more win than the Falcons had that entire year.  That's what happens when you lack depth. 

The Ravens have tried to trade up, but just because they don't means its a failure?  They have to have some type of line where its too much to give up.  I agree if you like a guy you should go get him, but to give all that up just for one guy is too much.  We got Mosely who isn't going to be what Mack is, but he is a great piece to be apart of a team.  The value of getting Mosley at 17 is far better than giving up 5 picks to get Mack (imo). 

Lets say we gave up what the Falcons did to get Mack, we wouldn't have gotten Mosley, Jernigan, We traded our 4th rounder to someone so add another player from somewhere in (maybe next year), then the next year we wouldn't of selected BP or one of the next three: Buck Allen, Z smith, Tray Walker.  All of which are contributors except the obvious (RIP). 

I don't know about college players as much as you do, but when we selected Upshaw, I was very unhappy, the guy just didn't look like a football player to me.  And ive said the FO missed on that pick numerous times.  You are right though, some fans will blindly give praise to the FO, I however like to think im objective, maybe more on the optimistic side but still.  Its all just opinion, and mine is that I don't think he would of been worth it considering the lack of talent everywhere else.  You yourself said we lack play makers, plural. 

All those players are replaceable. Depth comes a dime a dozen. Mediocre players, ravens have to much of that!! People believe whatever comforts them. Apparently role players are more important than cornerstones now that the ravens do not have any cornerstones. And Falcons did not believe the team was a wr from a championship. It was an opportunity to draft a rare wr. Every fan to comfort themselves into believing impact players are not as important as depth now that the ravens have none like to point out the Jones trade. Let's look at the team that gave up the pick for jones. Depth really helped them. And the trade was 5 yrs ago!! That trade is not the reason the Falcons sucked. Falcons have screwed dozens of picks since that trade. Let's look at not making the trade. Ravens did not trade up for mack. Ravens were 5-11 with no impact players. But injuries..... believe whatever comforts you. Wait ravens should have depth to handle injuries cuz management did not trade a round1-3 pick for Mack. Let's see what happens this yr.

[usmccharles]

7 minutes ago, Winchester said:

All those players are replaceable. Depth comes a dime a dozen. Mediocre players, ravens have to much of that!! People believe whatever comforts them. Apparently role players are more important than cornerstones now that the ravens do not have any cornerstones. And Falcons did not believe the team was a wr from a championship. It was an opportunity to draft a rare wr. Every fan to comfort themselves into believing impact players are not as important as depth now that the ravens have none like to point out the Jones trade. Let's look at the team that gave up the pick for jones. Depth really helped them. And the trade was 5 yrs ago!! That trade is not the reason the Falcons sucked. Falcons have screwed dozens of picks since that trade. Let's look at not making the trade. Ravens did not trade up for mack. Ravens were 5-11 with no impact players. But injuries..... believe whatever comforts you. Wait ravens should have depth to handle injuries cuz management did not trade a round1-3 pick for Mack. Let's see what happens this yr.

Browns are the worst drafting team in the league, not even close, like anyone is shocked they screwed those picks up.  I don't even think they had a great draft this year, I think 40% of their draft were Wrs lol. 

I don't think its comfort, I think its logic.  I will voice my opinion whenever the FO does something I don't like, just like I will stand up for a decision I do like, there are prime examples of both.  I don't think adding Mack last year would of made us a 10 win team.  Do you have a link saying what the Raiders wanted for that pick, I couldn't find specifics. 

Julio is a game changer no doubt, but without a lot of help hes not taking them to the SB.  So all they need to do is just do this trade about 4 more times and they might be able to make it worth it.  I just don't think it was worth it. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by usmccharles

[Tru11]

15 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The issue with the line of thinking of, "We would only lose X..." is that you have the gift of hindsight. 

The Ravens had no idea who they'd take at 17, or in the next few rounds/years. It almost never works out when a team gives up that much, like the Falcons for Julio. Great, great player, but the Falcons lost so much depth that they took a huge bell curve in terms of wins.

Also, you really think it would be easy to squeeze all those cap hits? Didn't Harrison just get like 5/$45M? His cap hits are all around $9-$10M, which Williams should exceed since he's the better player. So when it comes time to sign Mack, which you'd want to do earlier rather than later, he'd have cap hits probably similar to Watt and be around  $15M. That's about $50M in cap tied up to three players (Joe, Mack, BWill). Probably not going to get extensions done with guys like Jimmy and Yanda or sign Weddle, etc. 

Then, on top of that, you're losing out on three draft picks if we follow the OP. So, no LT and you're stuck with Hurst, probably cannot re-sign Wagner, so now Wesley and Hurst. 

I mean, it's easy to sit here and say, "Go trade up," when you can sit back and see what those picks became and not have to manage a cap, but could you actually do it if your job rode on it?

 

SMH.

im going with what has been said in this thread and work with that.
its a what if thread , not what ozzie should have done.
OP had a random though so dont think this is a bash ozzie thread.
you are taking it way to serious for that.

yeah going into the finer details then things might not work out but then again things might.
there simply is no way of telling cause 1 thing done different will simply change everything from that point foward.

however my point is and still remains that mack is well worth mosley, jernigan and brooks for the simple fact he has brought more to the table so far as all 3 combined.

now are you going to argue that mack is worth less or are you going to bring in random stuff that has nothing to do with my point?

Edited May 17, 2016 by Tru11

[usmccharles]

3 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

 

SMH.

im going with what has been said in this thread and work with that.

yeah going into the finer details then things might not work out but then again things might.
there simply is no way of telling cause 1 thing done different will simply change everything from that point foward.

however my point is and still remains that mack is well worth mosley, jernigan and brooks for the simple fact he has brought more to the table so far as all 3 combined.

now are you going to argue that mack is worth less or are you going to bring in random stuff that has nothing to do with my point?

Still need two more players added in technically.  This is all really pointless, but kind of the point of a discussion board. 

[Tru11]

1 minute ago, usmccharles said:

Still need two more players added in technically.  This is all really pointless, but kind of the point of a discussion board. 

Feel free to add them and perhaps ill say we got more value then mack would have gotten us.

 

[usmccharles]

Just now, Tru11 said:

Feel free to add them and perhaps ill say we got more value then mack would have gotten us.

 

Look up 7 posts or so.  Just going with the narrative of using the Falcons trade.  Some think it was worth it, some don't.  Same concept with Mack. 

[Tru11]

6 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Look up 7 posts or so.  Just going with the narrative of using the Falcons trade.  Some think it was worth it, some don't.  Same concept with Mack. 

like i said i went with mosley brooks jernigan for mack which was being talked about before i jumped in.

not sure why yall try to add in stuff i was not talking about lol.

there is no way to know what the raiders where asking and certainly no way to know what would have happend if we made the trade up.
every single thing could have potentially changed from that point which is why im not even going to bother going into discussing actual cap hits and such like bmore is trying to do.

im simply going by the players that where suggest as the trade off and what they have done so far in their career.
nothing more , nothing less.

realistically we will never know the truth which is why there is no point going into to much detail.

[usmccharles]

Just now, Tru11 said:

like i said i went with mosley brooks jernigan for mack which was being talked about before i jumped in.

not sure why yall try to add in stuff i was not talking about lol.

there is no way to know what the raiders where asking and certainly no way to know what would have happend if we made the trade up.
every single thing could have potentially changed from that point which is why im not even going to bother going into discussing actual cap hits and such like bmore is trying to do.

im simply going by the players that where suggest as the trade off and what they have done so far in their career.
nothing more , nothing less.

realistically we will never know the truth which is why there is no point going into to much detail.

I wasn't even aware you were in the convo, I just replied to Winchester lol.  Working nights I tend to miss the basis of most daily topics

[Tru11]

12 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I wasn't even aware you were in the convo, I just replied to Winchester lol.  Working nights I tend to miss the basis of most daily topics

makes sense cause i was really wondering what to reply to you and just decided to be blunt cause i had no clue what say hahahaha

 

[usmccharles]

Just now, Tru11 said:

makes sense cause i was really wondering what to reply to you and just decided to be blunt cause i had no clue what say hahahaha

 

Haha I got you.  Some fans think its worth it, some don't. Like my post said above you said, hindsight is easy to point out flaws

[Tru11]

59 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Haha I got you.  Some fans think its worth it, some don't. Like my post said above you said, hindsight is easy to point out flaws

yeah i dont think OP wanted this to be a serious topic anyways so no point going into depth hahahah

[usmccharles]

5 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

yeah i dont think OP wanted this to be a serious topic anyways so no point going into depth hahahah

That's what he gets...

[RavensDieHard21]

18 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

Go watch Myles Garrett. 

And Mack isn't a Raven and is likely never going to be one. Those players don't leave in FA as I think you said. We just gotta find that guy for this team. Not even Sherman was considered a top-5 player when he was drafted, else he would've gone earlier than the 5th round. 

Garrett will go top 3, he is really good lol, worst case scenario, we tank and land him haha jk I hope we never ever select top 3.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Side note and completely off topic....

But if you find yourself using the word "whom" quite often, please learn how and when to use it correctly. I see more and more people using it frequently, and in the wrong context entirely.

--

On the conversation, it always depends on the player and the price. And hindsight, of course, helps. But, there are situations where I would trade up, for the right price, and others where I'd prefer to stand pat. This one - without knowing what compensation the Raiders would accept -  I can't really comment on.

[RavensDieHard21]

7 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

But it's not just about who may be there at 17. Mosley was rated as a top 10, and you'd be losing two more first round picks on top of very likely some second and third round picks. 

You're using the power of hindsight. The FO had Mosley top 10, possibly top 5, and had Mack probably at 1. They could stay put and get one of the drafts best or mortgage the future for the best in the draft. Given what the FO knew, you do not make that trade.

No way CJ was top 5 lol he was a very solid LB at Alabama, but was never a great coverage LB, probably a top 10 guy though. And I agree on hind sight and the deal, but we were aware that our team could easily bounce back the following year and moving forward, meaning our first would be in the mid 20's, I probably would not have done more than two first and a later pick, but I would have given up the rumored first, second, and third in the 2014 draft. The talent leve and valuel between CJ and Mack is vast now and probably was rather big on draft night. lol I just like to guess sometimes 

[RavensDieHard21]

7 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

As important as cornerstones are, who the hell was ours during our SB run? Injured ngata? Old man Ray? Old man Ed? Injured Suggs? No. We rode Flacco. Whether you want to admit it or not, we rode him to the promise land. He had one of the greatest posteasons in NFL history with a borderline #1 WR, a one trick pony deep threat in Torrey, Jacoby Jones who has an occasional big drop, and a very good TE with a good RB. I know we all like to glorify Boldin, but reality is, while he was very good he wasn't the WR god people made him out to be. He was more than critical to the run, but Flacco activated his god mode. That's our cornerstone. Our defense was beat up, and ironically the worst one I've ever seen win a SB. We had good depth. As important as cornerstones are, you can't win a SB without depth. 

 

And who the hell were we going to get this year?  Bosa. Probably had no chance even if we traded. We would've had to offer like an entire draft. No player is worth that. Look at Ricky Williams, good RB with a good career. But Saints gave up way too much for him. No player is worth that. Ramsey is the same deal. And Jack's knee is a ticking time bomb. Much as I would have loved to get him, I understand the logic there. If he injures his knee again it could be game over for his whole career. 

2014 provided us with a cornerstone in my eyes. CJ is someone you can build a defense around. Only MLBs I'd honestly take over him are Luke, Bowman, and Wagner. That's about it. CJ may have issues in coverage(which btw. It was his second season. He can improve), but is about fantastic in every other category. He's got a very high football  IQ and he plays with a fire. You're talking about someone who was a second team all pro his rookie year, and was pretty good this year. That's a cornerstone to me. I have no issues if we build a defense around CJ. He's young, already one of the best, and has nowhere to go but up. 

We got Jernigan who's a high level contributor. If he becomes a consistent pass rusher(he flashes, and is easily one of the better 3-4 Ends in the league already), that's a pro bowler on our hands. Urschel, while his play was overrated, has the talent and potential to become a full time starter and we got him in the 5th round. 

So you trade up for Mack, lose a bunch of depth and potential talent. We may have a superstar on our hands, but no depth meaning ironically we'd be in a way worse position than before. 

 

Again. I'm glad the fans don't run this team

Corner stones can be on offense or defense. In our SB run, we had a lot of depth yes, but also many corner stones battling injuries. Suggs was still effective in containment, Kruger was on fire, Flacco became a cornerstone, but just look at the past 5-10 SB Champs, they have corner stones or have a scheme that works for them that teams cannot handle. Denver, NE, Seattle, Baltimore, Giants, Packers, Saints, Steelers, all had big time players or their QB lit it up when needed. 

Mack would have been worth it. Mack > Mosley, Jernigan, Brooks, Mack > Mosley and Perriman. period

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

4 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Corner stones can be on offense or defense. In our SB run, we had a lot of depth yes, but also many corner stones battling injuries. Suggs was still effective in containment, Kruger was on fire, Flacco became a cornerstone, but just look at the past 5-10 SB Champs, they have corner stones or have a scheme that works for them that teams cannot handle. Denver, NE, Seattle, Baltimore, Giants, Packers, Saints, Steelers, all had big time players or their QB lit it up when needed. 

Mack would have been worth it. Mack > Mosley, Jernigan, Brooks, Mack > Mosley and Perriman. period

First off, you cant say Mack > Mosley, Jernigan, and Brooks when we dont know what their career arcs look like. You can say Mack > Mosley, Jernigan, and Brooks so far. 

And Perriman hasnt played a single snap so to say Mack > Mosley and Perriman is ridiculous. What if Perriman is Odell Beckham... Would you take one Mack over a Mosley AND Beckham? Heck no. So, no period. Maybe a comma or an ellipses, but not a period yet.

And the most likely question you would have to answer is, is Mack > Mosley, Perriman, Stanley and others? Thats TBD, but I'd place my wager on the Ravens side because id take a franchise MLB, LT, and potential WR1 over just 1 player any day even if he is a generational talent. 

[RavensDieHard21]

6 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I think the problem with people wanting this key guy, one big cornerstone guy (im at fault of this) is because we were blessed with Ray Lewis for 17 years.  The man is considered the best leader in sports of all time by many analysts and players.  But it spoiled us in a way, a player like that barely ever comes around, yes there are the Lukes and the Macks and the Rays talent wise... but who Ray was as a person and a leader really skews it for some fans.

That is just it! Watching the 2015 squad there was literally no one popping off the screen other than SSS before getting injured. No big time game wreckers on either side of the ball. Moving forward, our best players are Flacco if he recovers properly and a guard--Yanda who I love. then the talent takes a big dip to Cj and Doom, whom one we are hoping will regain form as he ages and the other we hope won't get ripped apart by TEs and RBs catching passes. 

When you watched the Panthers in the post-season Kuechly was in on every play, he is an absolute game wrecker as well as Thomas Davis, Kawann Short, Norman, etc. When you watched Denver, Miller was unstoppable, so was Ware--whom their FO was aggressive in getting, as well as Talib and Harris. When you watch the Texans minus their playoff game, Watt elevates his whole defense. Cardinals have Campbell, the Honey Badger, and Patrick Peterson. 

My point is, the contenders have studs that make their units stand out in January. This isn't baseball where having the whole team batting .250 will consistently help win games. 

[Tru11]

5 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

First off, you cant say Mack > Mosley, Jernigan, and Brooks when we dont know what their career arcs look like. You can say Mack > Mosley, Jernigan, and Brooks so far. 

And Perriman hasnt played a single snap so to say Mack > Mosley and Perriman is ridiculous. What if Perriman is Odell Beckham... Would you take one Mack over a Mosley AND Beckham? Heck no. So, no period. Maybe a comma or an ellipses, but not a period yet.

And the most likely question you would have to answer is, is Mack > Mosley, Perriman, Stanley and others? Thats TBD, but I'd place my wager on the Ravens side because id take a franchise MLB, LT, and potential WR1 over just 1 player any day even if he is a generational talent. 

what if perriman is DHB and stanley is oher?

[Jacquouille]

Whatever we say, none of you would have taken that gamble that night. We got ourselves some very solid players in that draft, it was without a doubt an extremely important one for the future and when Jernigan reaches his ceiling (which he will) we'll all agree that Oz nailed it. 

[Tru11]

totally depends on what the raiders where asking for TBH.

3 first rounds picks id never do .

2 first rounders i might have done in though if i where sold on mack which i personally was.

[RavensDieHard21]

3 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Browns are the worst drafting team in the league, not even close, like anyone is shocked they screwed those picks up.  I don't even think they had a great draft this year, I think 40% of their draft were Wrs lol. 

I don't think its comfort, I think its logic.  I will voice my opinion whenever the FO does something I don't like, just like I will stand up for a decision I do like, there are prime examples of both.  I don't think adding Mack last year would of made us a 10 win team.  Do you have a link saying what the Raiders wanted for that pick, I couldn't find specifics. 

Julio is a game changer no doubt, but without a lot of help hes not taking them to the SB.  So all they need to do is just do this trade about 4 more times and they might be able to make it worth it.  I just don't think it was worth it. 

I think he makes a huge difference. Suggs goes down, Mack and Upshaw handle early downs. Doom comes in fresh on 3rd and we have two studs rushing the passer, we then do not have to blitz 6 guys and further expose the secondary, we legit with Mack could have rushed 4 and got constant pressure. 

Did you see what Mack did to Denver in week 16? He had 5 sacks, a strip in the end zone and completely shut their run game down. He demolished their tackles and even with double teams, he was rocking Osweiler. That constant pressure and presence immediately helps every single other player on the field.

[redrum52]

Hate to be that guy, but Mack just was awarded All-Pro honors at 2 positions.  Some guys you know will have the talent.  When you see it, you take it if you can.  You can't always shop in the bargain bin if you want real change, especially with our top guys up there in age.  It will work some times and others it wont, but you need to be willing to take the risk.  We've seemed gun shy for awhile now.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

17 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

what if perriman is DHB and stanley is oher?

Right, and of course in that case Mack would have been better. But, the point is at the time of the trade you have no idea who the three 1st rounders on the other side of the equation would be... and right now we dont know what Perriman and Stanley are... so definitively saying Mack > Mosley, Perriman, and Stanley is premature at best, and utterly ridiculous at worst. Currently its inconclusive bc we dont know what 2 of the variables are.

 

Simple algebra. You can't say 10 > 5+a+b when you dont know the values of a and b.

[RavensDieHard21]

22 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

First off, you cant say Mack > Mosley, Jernigan, and Brooks when we dont know what their career arcs look like. You can say Mack > Mosley, Jernigan, and Brooks so far. 

And Perriman hasnt played a single snap so to say Mack > Mosley and Perriman is ridiculous. What if Perriman is Odell Beckham... Would you take one Mack over a Mosley AND Beckham? Heck no. So, no period. Maybe a comma or an ellipses, but not a period yet.

And the most likely question you would have to answer is, is Mack > Mosley, Perriman, Stanley and others? Thats TBD, but I'd place my wager on the Ravens side because id take a franchise MLB, LT, and potential WR1 over just 1 player any day even if he is a generational talent. 

The hardest part to argue is what we would have given up. i heard the rumored trade on ESPN on draft night and cannot remember who said it. But someone commented saying that the Ravens inquired about moving up and the Raiders wanted their first slew of picks. I'm guessing 1-3 or 1-4, but I also seen rumors floating that it was two first rounders, who knows for sure outside of Raiders and Ravens FOs.

But the reason I said period was more a gesture of confidence than anything. Mack is ascending to a crazy level of play where CJ has taken a step back and Jernigan has the same problems he did in college and his rookie year. Perriman is a wild card, but I cannot give him credit yet as he hasn't even hit the field for a pre-season game. time will tell, but I wish the FO at times would switch its approach on draft night and in free agency. The whole, we'll be waiting right here thing doesn't always work.