[News] Late For Work 5/12: Ravens' Bargain Shopping Begins Today With Plenty Of Options

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, fluffy201 said:

Well, while a June first cut does provide a lot of cap space, we still would need an upgrade from Hurst at back up tackle. And assuming Stanley is a baller, I still don't feel it would be wise to have Hurst as our back up given last years debacle. And with significant saving after June first we still carry that fixed cost into 2017 rather than just eating it now. While fixed cost really shouldn't be taken into much consideration, it is still a decision whether the Ravens want to spread that cost over time or deal with it now.

Frankly, there's other options. For all we know, Hurst may not make the team regardless, and the backup LT might be a Rich Wagner or somebody else. We saw our LG become basically our backup LT last season.

I agree Monroe would be solid "depth", but its a tough sell in that spot to convince a franchise owner to pay $6.5M in 2016 to a backup LT who ideally would never see the field. 

There really aren't any teams in the league who have a "good" backup LT. There aren't even probably 25 quality LTs in the entire league to begin with, let alone enough to have a backup.

At the end of the day, as bad as Hurst is, we can win with Hurst. We've proven that. He's not so horrible that Joe literally can't complete a pass. He's just not a good starter, and not somebody I'd want out there for 16 games. If he had to play 2-3 games, I wouldn't be that concerned.

[hen826957]

  11 minutes ago, hen826957 said:

McPhee definitely deserve it. ?

I love Mcphee as much the next guy but 40 mil?

Yes, he's making a little over 7 million a year with a production of 6-8 sacks yes to me it was totally worth it. 5 year $38,750,000 dollar contract to be exact. It just during that time when his rookie contract expires we couldn't afford him due to the dead money of Ray Rice and Haloti Ngata contracts.

[757RavensFan]

9 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

The only excuse I can think of for this is he's pulling a cap space number from like literally before FA even opened, which was over two months ago. 

OR... he thinks the draft class was going to cost like $10-15M in cap space this season, which obviously isn't true either.

At the end of the day, its basically just one big "opinion" article, so when you write opinion articles, much like when people post on this site, you aren't in any way required to use factual information or even credible information to put your point out there. Your opinions obviously won't mean as much and people will stop taking your opinions seriously, but also doesn't appear some people care about that these days.

In my mind, that's quite irresponsible and lazy. Not something I'd want myself to be perceived as.

I agree w/ the opinion perspective but if you're getting paid by someone as big as ESPN, your "opinion" article should at least be factual.

Nothing wrong w/ voicing/writing your opinion based on facts.  

[eze17]

  1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  1 hour ago, fluffy201 said:

Agreed. We would have to find Monroe's replacement for 2.1 million dollars which isn't going to happen. We need depth at the position. I say Monroe doesn't go anywhere even if Stanley beats him out.

That's not true. We already have Monroe's replacement on the roster already (Stanley). So that money could be spent on adding depth or a starter at another position.

Plus, once June 1 comes, that number goes from $2.1M to $6.5M, so much larger cap savings in 2016 if the cut is after June 1st, which it almost certainly would be.

Well, while a June first cut does provide a lot of cap space, we still would need an upgrade from Hurst at back up tackle. And assuming Stanley is a baller, I still don't feel it would be wise to have Hurst as our back up given last years debacle. And with significant saving after June first we still carry that fixed cost into 2017 rather than just eating it now. While fixed cost really shouldn't be taken into much consideration, it is still a decision whether the Ravens want to spread that cost over time or deal with it now.

Well, i'm still of the opinion we keep Monroe at least through training camp/pre-season, and if he plays well we keep him another year. However, if Stanley stands out as a dominant looking LT, the Ravens may decide to roll the dice. Or if we needed the cap space, which I don't see the Ravens signing any really big name players. Course, we'll see who gets cut June 1st.

As for back-up if Stanley gets the nod and we cut Monroe, we drafted Lewis in the 4th round. I know there's been talk of trying him at LG, but I think Urschel or Jensen probably get that spot. I'm not sure Hurst makes the roster, but who knows-Lewis has to prove hes capable of playing in the NFL, same as all the rookies.

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, eze17 said:

Well, i'm still of the opinion we keep Monroe at least through training camp/pre-season, and if he plays well we keep him another year. However, if Stanley stands out as a dominant looking LT, the Ravens may decide to roll the dice. Or if we needed the cap space, which I don't see the Ravens signing any really big name players. Course, we'll see who gets cut June 1st.

As for back-up if Stanley gets the nod and we cut Monroe, we drafted Lewis in the 4th round. I know there's been talk of trying him at LG, but I think Urschel or Jensen probably get that spot. I'm not sure Hurst makes the roster, but who knows-Lewis has to prove hes capable of playing in the NFL, same as all the rookies.

Yup, no issue with this.

Conventional wisdom says it makes no sense to cut Monroe until at least the end of training camp, so basically late July/early August at the earliest. In all likelihood, his time here would probably extend until mid-to-late August so we see Stanley in actual game action at LT. 

Makes practically no sense to cut Monroe now or before camp, barring some sort of injury/health concerns.

[757RavensFan]

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yup, no issue with this.

Conventional wisdom says it makes no sense to cut Monroe until at least the end of training camp, so basically late July/early August at the earliest. In all likelihood, his time here would probably extend until mid-to-late August so we see Stanley in actual game action at LT. 

Makes practically no sense to cut Monroe now or before camp, barring some sort of injury/health concerns.

Or popping positive for weed.  IJS. 

[rmcjacket23]

7 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

Or popping positive for weed.  IJS. 

Could actually increase his chances of staying then. We'd save $1.625M, since we wouldn't have to pay him for four games.

 

[ravens4life86]

Looking at the CB market..I would love Leon Hall or Jarraud Powers.. both about 5-11 190lb CBs both real good man CBs.. both good HANDS for a CB. Powers atleast 1 INT every year of his career...and Hall has a history of INTs too.

If not them I will settle for physical zone types like Old Friend Cary Williams or Cortland Finnegan.

[ravens4life86]

Not overly impressed with that group of LBrs...Casey Mathews is the best on paper.. and hes only a 50-70 tackle a yr guy..avg at best...

Maybe the best option is let Orr and Brown fight it out....or swing a trade for another D.Smith type

[JimmyBlack]

I'm not so sure that we will get a quality ILB or CB at this time.  There were many good players drafted who might bump a player or two that we want off a roster in August.  We'd love to get another guy like Dumerville, of course, who seemed to fall in our laps.  Ozzie and the staff will be scouting for talent up until the season starts.  As for Monroe, I'd keep him for the simple fact that experienced offensive line depth is important. It's a long season and we never know who might go down.

[dirtybird66]

COURTLAND FINNEGAN-JUMP CARY WILLIAMS-JUMP-JUMP
two physical corners at the line-JUMP! JUMP!

[mearzunkies]

COURTLAND FINNEGAN-JUMP CARY WILLIAMS-JUMP-JUMP
two physical corners at the line-JUMP! JUMP!

I agree either one would receive playing time !!

[fluffy201]

  6 hours ago, fluffy201 said:

Well, while a June first cut does provide a lot of cap space, we still would need an upgrade from Hurst at back up tackle. And assuming Stanley is a baller, I still don't feel it would be wise to have Hurst as our back up given last years debacle. And with significant saving after June first we still carry that fixed cost into 2017 rather than just eating it now. While fixed cost really shouldn't be taken into much consideration, it is still a decision whether the Ravens want to spread that cost over time or deal with it now.

Frankly, there's other options. For all we know, Hurst may not make the team regardless, and the backup LT might be a Rich Wagner or somebody else. We saw our LG become basically our backup LT last season.

I agree Monroe would be solid "depth", but its a tough sell in that spot to convince a franchise owner to pay $6.5M in 2016 to a backup LT who ideally would never see the field. 

There really aren't any teams in the league who have a "good" backup LT. There aren't even probably 25 quality LTs in the entire league to begin with, let alone enough to have a backup.

At the end of the day, as bad as Hurst is, we can win with Hurst. We've proven that. He's not so horrible that Joe literally can't complete a pass. He's just not a good starter, and not somebody I'd want out there for 16 games. If he had to play 2-3 games, I wouldn't be that concerned.

Agreed, it is all just speculation of course and many scenarios could play out (hopefully the one that benefits the team the most). And if we can cut Monroe while keeping the offensive line in equilibrium I would be fine with that.

My only concern was that before the draft, the Offensive line aside from the secondary was our weakest units. After the draft we have to assume that our #7th pick overall will start somewhere along the line.

Moreover, If Stanley does not beat out Monroe which is a good possibility given that the transition to the NFL can be quite formidable. I would hope that the Ravens keep both on the roster, and while 6 mill is a lot in savings, we have to protect our zillion dollar quarter back. His contract is surely worth more than every member on the team. In addition, I hope you're right, and that Stanley does beat Monroe out and that Hurst provides himself as a reliable back up because that would indeed save the ravens a lot of money by cutting Monroe.

......Maybe go after a legit corner with the savings, but doubt it. Corners like tackles don't come cheap at all :(

[Halshayeji]

19 hours ago, PurplenBlackFan2392 said:

Honestly I'd be ecstatic if we signed Cortland or Tillman they would bring toughness experience and real game to a thin CB position! Not to mention Ball hawking skills. We need all the ball-hawks we can find. Lattimore I think would be a good pick up at Lb. Also Clifton Brown doesn't really have confidence in our team IMO, I mean we are going to be a really good team overall with all these players coming back from injuries. Imagine if Flacco, Suggs, Smith and CO. all come back 100% and playing at the level the left off at, We Are going to be a Dangerous Team. We are always being seen as the underdogs/outcast so I'm used to as a Ravens Fan.

Heck I love the fact that we're always the underdogs! It just makes winning taste so much sweeter  

[Halshayeji]

15 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Frankly, there's other options. For all we know, Hurst may not make the team regardless, and the backup LT might be a Rich Wagner or somebody else. We saw our LG become basically our backup LT last season.

I agree Monroe would be solid "depth", but its a tough sell in that spot to convince a franchise owner to pay $6.5M in 2016 to a backup LT who ideally would never see the field. 

There really aren't any teams in the league who have a "good" backup LT. There aren't even probably 25 quality LTs in the entire league to begin with, let alone enough to have a backup.

At the end of the day, as bad as Hurst is, we can win with Hurst. We've proven that. He's not so horrible that Joe literally can't complete a pass. He's just not a good starter, and not somebody I'd want out there for 16 games. If he had to play 2-3 games, I wouldn't be that concerned.

I really hope we keep Monroe.

1- it makes life easier for Stanley to start his NFL career at LG until he's ready to play LT.

2- if Monroe goes down we can always slide Stanley to LT and Urschel or Jensen fight for LG.

3- If Wagner goes down we can slide Stanley or Yanda to RT and still have a quality line.

sure Monroe may not be the best LT but if there's ever a position that you need to be over prepared for its Oline.

of we really need the cap we can always figure something out. Like you mentioned in another post. It's not like we're going to sign a 10 mil a year guy. We may need a mil or two and we have a few other options.

[usmccharles]

21 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

I really hope we keep Monroe.

1- it makes life easier for Stanley to start his NFL career at LG until he's ready to play LT.

2- if Monroe goes down we can always slide Stanley to LT and Urschel or Jensen fight for LG.

3- If Wagner goes down we can slide Stanley or Yanda to RT and still have a quality line.

sure Monroe may not be the best LT but if there's ever a position that you need to be over prepared for its Oline.

of we really need the cap we can always figure something out. Like you mentioned in another post. It's not like we're going to sign a 10 mil a year guy. We may need a mil or two and we have a few other options.

This.  I think its a win win situation if we keep Monroe.  If we keep him and he stays healthy, he is just fine at LT, then we can move Stanley to G and our Line will be just fine.  He could also be depth.  But one thing I haven't seen mentioned and it doesn't make much sense, is having Monroe at G.  just a thought

[rmcjacket23]

11 hours ago, fluffy201 said:

Agreed, it is all just speculation of course and many scenarios could play out (hopefully the one that benefits the team the most). And if we can cut Monroe while keeping the offensive line in equilibrium I would be fine with that.

My only concern was that before the draft, the Offensive line aside from the secondary was our weakest units. After the draft we have to assume that our #7th pick overall will start somewhere along the line.

Moreover, If Stanley does not beat out Monroe which is a good possibility given that the transition to the NFL can be quite formidable. I would hope that the Ravens keep both on the roster, and while 6 mill is a lot in savings, we have to protect our zillion dollar quarter back. His contract is surely worth more than every member on the team. In addition, I hope you're right, and that Stanley does beat Monroe out and that Hurst provides himself as a reliable back up because that would indeed save the ravens a lot of money by cutting Monroe.

......Maybe go after a legit corner with the savings, but doubt it. Corners like tackles don't come cheap at all

I wouldn't necessarily have called the offensive line a weak spot... I'd call LT (or at least stability at LT) a weak spot. At worst, even if Stanley isn't a day 1 starter at that position, he's surely an upgrade over Hurst as the backup, so if nothing else, in year 1, we added depth there. 

Losing KO will certainly hurt, but I never really lose much sleep over losing a Guard. We have a long, long history of developing interior lineman, and I think some combination of either Stanley (if Monroe plays LT), Urschel, or Jensen (or possibly even another FA addition) will do just fine there. Will they be as good as KO? Of course not, but the offensive line is a UNIT. Having one weakness on an Oline doesn't make the entire line bad. I still have confidence in Zuttah, Yanda and Wagner, and I'm fine with our ability to put a LG out there who can play decently.

For all we say about it, when it was largely healthy (which it wasn't most of the time) and even when it wasn't, our offensive line really wasn't that bad last season. It wasn't great... it's not nearly Dallas Cowboys level, but it certainly wasn't horrible. I think, as presently assembled, its a good run-blocking unit and I think its an average, bordering on above-average pass blocking unit.

I treat offensive lines like I treat Special teams... you don't have to be great at it in order to win a lot of games. You just can't suck at it, and I don't think we suck at it.

Edited May 13, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[usmccharles]

18 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I wouldn't necessarily have called the offensive line a weak spot... I'd call LT (or at least stability at LT) a weak spot. At worst, even if Stanley isn't a day 1 starter at that position, he's surely an upgrade over Hurst as the backup, so if nothing else, in year 1, we added depth there. 

Losing KO will certainly hurt, but I never really lose much sleep over losing a Guard. We have a long, long history of developing interior lineman, and I think some combination of either Stanley (if Monroe plays LT), Urschel, or Jensen (or possibly even another FA addition) will do just fine there. Will they be as good as KO? Of course not, but the offensive line is a UNIT. Having one weakness on an Oline doesn't make the entire line bad. I still have confidence in Zuttah, Yanda and Wagner, and I'm fine with our ability to put a LG out there who can play decently.

For all we say about it, when it was largely healthy (which it wasn't most of the time) and even when it wasn't, our offensive line really wasn't that bad last season. It wasn't great... it's not nearly Dallas Cowboys level, but it certainly wasn't horrible. I think, as presently assembled, its a good run-blocking unit and I think its an average, bordering on above-average pass blocking unit.

I treat offensive lines like I treat Special teams... you don't have to be great at it in order to win a lot of games. You just can't suck at it, and I don't think we suck at it.

Is there any scenario where Monroe could be used as G?

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

We definately need to bring in another cb, JUST IN CASE...seem to be going thru them like water

[rmcjacket23]

8 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Is there any scenario where Monroe could be used as G?

I suppose its possible, but I don't see it.

[The Greek]

im sure cb and ilb will be addressed

[JimmyBlack]

22 hours ago, BmoreB said:

Funny, people just can't let this Ramsey thing go. He is not the second coming of Deion Sanders.

#3careerpickslol
#letitgo

Maybe he's Leon Sandcastle.

[JimmyBlack]

4 minutes ago, The Greek said:

im sure cb and ilb will be addressed

With so much talent to assess, I don't see the Ravens signing anyone unless a can't miss starter becomes available due to roster cuts sometime in August.  Anyone else that they bring in will just be a camp body or candidate for the practice squad.

[jmids1975]

Interesting that A J Hawk is not mentioned. Not a world beater by any stretch but a solid veteran who can at least push the younger guys in camp.
And as far as corner goes, I am just doing the math here. Jimmy Smith and Shareece Wright are inked and all but assured starting jobs. We just drafted 2 corners. We already have Will Davis and Kyle Arrington on the roster. How corners do you guys think we are going to carry? 5, 6 tops. And only 6 if special teams is a huge consideration. But logically, 5.
Do the math fellas.

[jmids1975]

And anyone who is still grumbling over Jalen Ramsey is badly in need of a session on a leather couch. It is not like we passed on him. Get over it.

[rmcjacket23]

5 minutes ago, jmids1975 said:

Interesting that A J Hawk is not mentioned. Not a world beater by any stretch but a solid veteran who can at least push the younger guys in camp.
And as far as corner goes, I am just doing the math here. Jimmy Smith and Shareece Wright are inked and all but assured starting jobs. We just drafted 2 corners. We already have Will Davis and Kyle Arrington on the roster. How corners do you guys think we are going to carry? 5, 6 tops. And only 6 if special teams is a huge consideration. But logically, 5.
Do the math fellas.

6 corners is probably about right, pending how many safeties we keep. Secondary players tend to be bigger assets on STs, so can probably see somewhere around 11-12 secondary players making the 53 man.

Plus, I'm not putting a ton of stock in Canady making the 53 man. He's a PS guy all the way I think.

I think you've got Smith, Wright, Arrington and Young locked into roster spots. Davis likely earns a spot if he shows he can recover well from his injury, and then you'll have competition for another spot if they choose to go that way. I would think we'd probably only carry five or six safeties, so carrying six corners makes sense.

 

[harfordravenfan]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I suppose its possible, but I don't see it.

Agreed.

With limited snaps, I really liked Jenson at guard

[eze17]

  2 hours ago, jmids1975 said:

Interesting that A J Hawk is not mentioned. Not a world beater by any stretch but a solid veteran who can at least push the younger guys in camp.
And as far as corner goes, I am just doing the math here. Jimmy Smith and Shareece Wright are inked and all but assured starting jobs. We just drafted 2 corners. We already have Will Davis and Kyle Arrington on the roster. How corners do you guys think we are going to carry? 5, 6 tops. And only 6 if special teams is a huge consideration. But logically, 5.
Do the math fellas.

6 corners is probably about right, pending how many safeties we keep. Secondary players tend to be bigger assets on STs, so can probably see somewhere around 11-12 secondary players making the 53 man.

Plus, I'm not putting a ton of stock in Canady making the 53 man. He's a PS guy all the way I think.

I think you've got Smith, Wright, Arrington and Young locked into roster spots. Davis likely earns a spot if he shows he can recover well from his injury, and then you'll have competition for another spot if they choose to go that way. I would think we'd probably only carry five or six safeties, so carrying six corners makes sense.

 

I think that with the injury history of Smith and Davis, plus the general feeling of ineffectiveness that Arrington brought to the table last year, it would be wise to bring in at least one veteran CB, I've said before, I wouldn't expect a starter, but a veteran would give us more competition and depth.

I agree with your assesment of Canady. Long term, he could be a sleeper, but I don't know about his effectiveness at this point in time. He could make it as a special teams player, but I think PS is probably more likely.

[rmcjacket23]

12 minutes ago, eze17 said:

I think that with the injury history of Smith and Davis, plus the general feeling of ineffectiveness that Arrington brought to the table last year, it would be wise to bring in at least one veteran CB, I've said before, I wouldn't expect a starter, but a veteran would give us more competition and depth.

I agree with your assesment of Canady. Long term, he could be a sleeper, but I don't know about his effectiveness at this point in time. He could make it as a special teams player, but I think PS is probably more likely.

I think eventually we will add a corner, just not convinced it will be anybody relevant or even anybody who makes the final roster.

From the FO's perspective, here's how I see it:

1. They know Jimmy was recovering from Lisfranc, and probably factor that in heavily into his lack of production last season.

2. They like Shareece Wright far more than the fanbase does. 

3. They asked Arrington for a rather large paycut, but they also know that he spent a lot of time playing outside last season vs in the slot, and I think they expect him to be a primarily slot corner this season. He's historically actually been pretty good there.

4. They LOVE Will Davis. Things could easily be different if he doesn't get hurt. I think they view him as a quality starter-potential player.

Personally, I thought our safeties had a lot more to do with our poor secondary play (which improved tremendously) than the corners did. Our corners aren't going to be great, but that's required in order to win in this league. Better play from our safeties should yield better play from our corners.

[eze17]

@rmcjacket23Sure you saw we just signed Jerraud Powers. Got someone sooner than later, I guess. I think if nothing else it's good competition for the team.