2016 Draft a Franchise: Discussion Thread

[regz1997]

24 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

It's like I'm Ozzie. Somehow ppl in front of me dont realize you can't win without a franchise QB

 

2 minutes ago, CalvinSmoke said:

It gets boring if everyone dies the same thing in the first round man. You act as if there is only one way to get err done. A good qb fell to you. Be happy 

Lol the non-conformist strikes again!!

[CalvinSmoke]

1 minute ago, regz1997 said:

 

Lol the non-conformist strikes again!!

I didn't even realize it was sizzle... I would have just let him be, I know he's only playing to help out. Lol my bad sizzle 

[allblackraven]

24 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

It's like I'm Ozzie. Somehow ppl in front of me dont realize you can't win without a franchise QB

Well, Denver did it without top QB last year. He certainly didn't play at the level you'd expect (and you did - he was your QB in this game last year) from a franchise guy.

[regz1997]

13 minutes ago, CalvinSmoke said:

I didn't even realize it was sizzle... I would have just let him be, I know he's only playing to help out. Lol my bad sizzle 

Yep I lost it here 

[-Truth-]

21 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

What I saw was from the end of the year when it all kinda sorts itself out. If the exact difference in about 6-7 spots is about 4.7, that's still above average by their metrics. I'm not saying they were top four, but the fact of the matter is these guys played extremely well probably compared to what we'd expect.

Again, these players all filled a niche. You have two burners on the outside, a veteran tight end over the middle, and a vet receiver over the middle. No, they weren't the best of the best, but they all did their job well. 

I didn't sit here and watch every single Panthers game and intently study every snap by every single player (I seriously doubt anyone here did), but I did watch Panthers games. Grim and I had a discussion about this earlier, but even if it was simply speed, those guys were getting open and making big plays on the outside as the tight end ate up the middle.

I won't even argue that Newton played well, but his group of receivers is gettinf way too underrated around here.

I won't argue that they didn't exceed expectations to at least some degree. That's a fair point. That being said, it's more indicative of how just how low the bar was set coming into the season. The main reason for their inclusion on the list is they were boosted significantly by their TE and that their worst worst graded fourth member ranked notably higher than a bunch of his counterpart reserves. Their standardized rubric is an imperfect tool of measure. Green Bay's trio made the Top 10. As did Houston's and San Diego's, wherein the top rated WRs either put forth a Herculean effort or went down at the half-way point with a season ending injury. Baltimore finished around or within the Top 5 in this category. On their own, their foursome tumbles out of the Top 10 when averaging out the best four. Carolina's trio was just outside of the Bottom 10, which is relevant since their team was one of the only four whose offensive sets included more looks with two WRs, meaning their impact is more difficult to judge since the opportunities for non-starters were far more space than normal. By PFF's own accord, they described their WR situation as, "a largely mediocre group," and, "a host of guys capable of playing complimentary roles," going on to mention their failures to win match ups against Denver's man coverage. If we're building our assessment based on PFF grades, those same grades ranged from average to slightly below for their WRs. I've went back to review quite a bit of their tape, though much like you, I obviously haven't seen every snap. That being said, while I'll agree that they surpassed their expectations, they were arguably alright this season and not much more. I've made my opinion known with regards to the talent, so I won't beat the dead horse any further.

 

[harfordravenfan]

1 minute ago, regz1997 said:

Yep I lost it here 

Same here lol

[-Truth-]

1 hour ago, regz1997 said:

For the record, I totally called that... No way in hell Big Ben is getting past Truth

Good to hear. I won't lie, I was afraid to look at the last few selections as I figured he'd be a goner. I received a heads up from another member and I made my selection within a minute of reading the text to make sure I'm not skipped over.

 

1 hour ago, Dubs said:

I was planning on taking Big Ben if Jameis Winston was gone at my pick. So to me great value. Kinda annoyed this is the one year I get a half decent pick and may be the only year where you can get a franchise or very good starting QB in the 20s to 30s

lol I'm with you. Didn't figure I'd be able to net a solid franchise QB this late. Certainly wouldn't have happened any other year.

 

1 hour ago, allblackraven said:

It's unbelievable to me that Ben went after some other QBs.

I'm pretty stoked to have him here, I won't lie. Thank you.

[52520Andrew]

Just now, -Truth- said:

I'm pretty stoked to have him here, I won't lie. Thank you.

At least your team won't be late and all with a clock being your first round pick

[-Truth-]

51 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Yea I couldnt trust Ben's health plus Ryan gives me an extra championship window. Ben is the next 5 years then done. 

Fair points. I had Roethlisberger slightly ahead of Ryan but it's a wash. More of a matter of taste as both are rock solid franchise QBs.

Edited May 11, 2016 by -Truth-

[-Truth-]

1 minute ago, 52520Andrew said:

At least your team won't be late and all with a clock being your first round pick

That's a +1 in my book. Cheeky.

[regz1997]

2 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

At least your team won't be late and all with a clock being your first round pick

Do I hear possible team name material?

[harfordravenfan]

Just to speed things up...

I'd gladly swap picks with paradise 

 

[ravensdan]

23 minutes ago, -Truth- said:

Fair points. I had Roethlisberger slightly ahead of Ryan but it's a wash. More of a matter of taste as both are rock solid franchise QBs.

Ben is the far superior player to Ryan IMO especially in big games. The fact that he can't be counted on to complete a season is the only thing keeping him out of the top 5 in my book. Still surprised these guys are available this late and at a couple more still around. Wish the board fell like this last year!

[regz1997]

1 minute ago, ravensdan said:

Ben is the far superior player to Ryan IMO especially in big games. The fact that he can't be counted on to complete a season is the only thing keeping him out of the top 5 in my book. Still surprised these guys are available this late and at a couple more still around. Wish the board fell like this last year!

Yet consider the crappy O-Lines Ben has played with for his career... He's been hit hard

Edited May 12, 2016 by regz1997

[ravensdan]

1 minute ago, regz1997 said:

Yet consider the crappy O-Lines Ben has played with for his career... He's been hit hard

Yes part of those hits are on the line part on his style of play. 

[BmoreBird22]

49 minutes ago, -Truth- said:

I won't argue that they didn't exceed expectations to at least some degree. That's a fair point. That being said, it's more indicative of how just how low the bar was set coming into the season. The main reason for their inclusion on the list is they were boosted significantly by their TE and that their worst worst graded fourth member ranked notably higher than a bunch of his counterpart reserves. Their standardized rubric is an imperfect tool of measure. Green Bay's trio made the Top 10. As did Houston's and San Diego's, wherein the top rated WRs either put forth a Herculean effort or went down at the half-way point with a season ending injury. Baltimore finished around or within the Top 5 in this category. On their own, their foursome tumbles out of the Top 10 when averaging out the best four. Carolina's trio was just outside of the Bottom 10, which is relevant since their team was one of the only four whose offensive sets included more looks with two WRs, meaning their impact is more difficult to judge since the opportunities for non-starters were far more space than normal. By PFF's own accord, they described their WR situation as, "a largely mediocre group," and, "a host of guys capable of playing complimentary roles," going on to mention their failures to win match ups against Denver's man coverage. If we're building our assessment based on PFF grades, those same grades ranged from average to slightly below for their WRs. I've went back to review quite a bit of their tape, though much like you, I obviously haven't seen every snap. That being said, while I'll agree that they surpassed their expectations, they were arguably alright this season and not much more. I've made my opinion known with regards to the talent, so I won't beat the dead horse any further.

I look at this way, to a degree. In the playoff run, Joe had a couple key pieces that made it work. He had two burners, a slot receiver specialist, and a white tight end that was pretty damn good at receiving. Sometimes all you really need is a bunch of pieces that complement each other well and that's clearly what they did.

[BmoreBird22]

So, in no particular order, guys I would have considered it Luck was gone:
Donald, Bortles, Roethlisberger, Ryan, and a guy who has not gone yet.

[allblackraven]

17 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

So, in no particular order, guys I would have considered it Luck was gone:
Donald, Bortles, Roethlisberger, Ryan, and a guy who has not gone yet.

No need for that, we all know who the guy is

 

[harfordravenfan]

8 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

No need for that, we all know who the guy is

 

Johnny football?

[regz1997]

2 minutes ago, harfordravenfan said:

Johnny football?

Cmon man! You can't name drop like that when my guy is falling 

[RaineV1]

31 minutes ago, harfordravenfan said:

Johnny football?

Nah. Why would someone take him when Tim Tebow is still on the board?

[ludy51]

Cmon @Archeearl92 @Ozzsome

Hand in the pick already, I want to be up

[Deflated Football]

Dang Truth, nice pick. Was hoping Ben would fall to me in the second. 

[-Truth-]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I look at this way, to a degree. In the playoff run, Joe had a couple key pieces that made it work. He had two burners, a slot receiver specialist, and a white tight end that was pretty damn good at receiving. Sometimes all you really need is a bunch of pieces that complement each other well and that's clearly what they did.

I agree with the latter sentiment and they did complement each well, at least to a degree. That being said, I strongly disagree with the example provided. Carolina didn't have a single WR who matched the postseason dominance of our then-No.1. He outproduced almost the entire group of four by himself. To be honest, none of them was even remotely close to his level of play, as he was arguably our second most impressive player in that playoff run. In fact, they were arguably one of the main culprits behind the SuperBowl loss, considering that a Denver DB went as far as publicly admitting that they could simply square up against the WRs and take them out of the game, which is what they did.

[regz1997]

25 minutes ago, ludy51 said:

Cmon @Archeearl92 @Ozzsome

Hand in the pick already, I want to be up

Do they have PaRaydise's board?

Edited May 12, 2016 by regz1997

[ludy51]

17 minutes ago, regz1997 said:

Do they have PaRaydise's board?

Yup

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

3 hours ago, Sizzlebshu said:

It's like I'm Ozzie. Somehow ppl in front of me dont realize you can't win without a franchise QB

I'm inclined to agree. As great as Donald, Watt, Miller, and Mack are you can't win in this league without a franchise QB. Are Flacco, Ryan, or Ben better overall players than Watt? No, but there's a reason Rodgers won the MVP over him two years ago.  Who's the best player in the NFL today? Probably Watt. But if you made me chose between Ben or Watt to build a team around, I pick Ben everytime. 

[RaineV1]

39 minutes ago, -Truth- said:

I agree with the latter sentiment and they did complement each well, at least to a degree. That being said, I strongly disagree with the example provided. Carolina didn't have a single WR who matched the postseason dominance of our then-No.1. He outproduced almost the entire group of four by himself. To be honest, none of them was even remotely close to his level of play, as he was arguably our second most impressive player in that playoff run. In fact, they were arguably one of the main culprits behind the SuperBowl loss, considering that a Denver DB went as far as publicly admitting that they could simply square up against the WRs and take them out of the game, which is what they did.

Agreed. Honestly, if the Panthers' had their true number 1 receiver around, they might have won that Super Bowl, but their guys were simply over matched by Denvers' defense.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

3 hours ago, allblackraven said:

Well, Denver did it without top QB last year. He certainly didn't play at the level you'd expect (and you did - he was your QB in this game last year) from a franchise guy.

Peyton still had the ability to audible his way out of most negative situations he didn't like and defenses still had to respect that. May not have been as good as he used to be but I'd still take old man Peyton(and yes, I can talk about him since he's retired) over a majority of QBs. 

 

Defenses may win championships but you need a QB in some capacity. 

[Mt. Crushmore]

As president of the fan club, I'm dismayed by the lack of selection of a certain player.