[News] First Impressions Of 2016 Ravens Rookies

[757RavensFan]

13 minutes ago, Ravenous_Ravens said:

People can express their opinions. If you don't like reading them, then do not read them. This board is for this exact reason, to express your perspective.

That being said, not being a GM does not mean you cannot have an opinion or that your perspectives are automatically incorrect unless your a GM.

It does not take an expert to see who has the talent as those players tend to stick out.

What a GM knows that fans do not, is how well their coaches can handle coaching up players, what kind of attitude players have and all the other intangibles that are not recorded as stats, traits and measureables.

Anyone who has played some football at a high school level or higher will have a fairly sound idea of what skillsets players need at certain positions and what to look for. No single person knows everything including GM's. GM's just have the luxury of many more sources of information, which tend to help them more than hurt.

Lastly, most people do not say they know better than the GM and those that say so or otherwise imply as much generally do not even offer up and evidence to backup their perspectives. IMHO no evidence means no value as a perspective.

Glad you got that off your chest!   You could have easily ignored my opinion like you suggested.  But anyways! 

Expressing your opinion about players that our front office did not pick solves what?  The draft is over, the picks were made and now it's time to move on with the players we do have.  Voicing your opinion and/or complaining about the players we didn't draft is a waste of key strokes at this point. Its time to get behind the players we drafted and hope they contribute. But if you choose to spend your time voicing your opinion on; coulda, shoulda, woulda...yep that's your prerogative.  Have fun w/ that and have a good day. 

 

[EdTheMythicalOne]

7 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Some people just cant do that...

I just saw an interesting factoid. Over 64% of NFL players on current rosters were 4th round draft picks or later.

Everyone worried we had so many 4th round picks still?

[CaliRavenFan]

11 hours ago, Drinkmore Beer said:

How did Perriman look? Sorry, couldn't help myself?

He actually has looked good running, well in the one video I seen anyways ? 

[FLBoyRaven]

  On 5/8/2016 at 2:23 PM, FLBoyRaven said:

Not only that we like to pick and choose when we take players with off the field issues like Tunsil, Spence, Burfict, Jimmy Smith etc but we draft a guy in the 4th rd who was arrested and had to transfer schools because he choose to jump a guy and bash dudes head into a brick wall or w.e. Just funny how we pick and choose but it will end up bitting us in the booty if we keep doing this. Some good players we have past on in the past. Look up Alex Lewis.

You pick and choose your poisons based off of risk/reward.

A guy like Jimmy Smith had issues with weed that the Ravens were sure they could clean up and he had lock down corner potential with rare size and speed for the position. Smith also was a 27th overall pick. Tunsil was slotted to us at #6 and would be responsible for protecting a franchise QB and he has shown some very poor judgement. It wasn't just about the pot. He was in Robert Nkemdiche's apartment when Nkemdiche fell out of the 4th floor window. He was involved in a domestic abuse altercation with his father in law and both men provided different stories to what happened. He accepted payment in college and was dumb enough to leave the transactions on his cell phone. Then there is the pot thing. Also, he was never able to stay on the field due to numerous injuries. How's that sounding for a top 10 pick?

Alex Lewis served his time and he says he's grown up from the altercation. Did he? Nobody really knows until he lives his life some more. But the risk here is a 4th round pick with the potential to have a starting guard or possible swing/starting tackle. He gets in trouble you cut him and cost yourself some thousands of dollars instead of multiple millions.

Ok I guess you didn't read the first part when I said that Stanley isn't that much better then then the other to Tackles in this draft. Your lecturing about risk/reward the why didn't we trade down. Could have gotten a 2nd or 3rd for that 6th pick and taken the top edge rusher in this class. Funny ecause I'm always right. When Lawson makes Stanley look more like a late 1st rd RT week one your gonna say damn that FLBOYRAVEN sure was right we should have used that top pick on a PROVEN top defensive player. Spriggs is just as good or better and we could have got him mid 2nd, thats value. Vontaze Burfict going undrafted the yr when we knew Sugar was gonna retire and he was the top projected ilb that would have been value but we pick and choose. La'el Collins goes undrafted and we waste late rd draft picks on guys like Waller. Monroe is on the roster and played a lot better then ppl have given him credit for, he just needs to stay healthy. Seems like latley we have been making the wrong risk/reward moves that we would normaly take. If Lawson kicks Stanley butt week one and Tunsil turns out to be a stud like Tyron someone needs to start getting looked at for a new job. Too many busted draft picks over the last few yrs. We just haven't been getting much value with our top picks and thats evident that they are all no longer on our roster. It's not science fiction Ed it's fact.

[Crusader]

  11 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Some people just cant do that...

I just saw an interesting factoid. Over 64% of NFL players on current rosters were 4th round draft picks or later.

Everyone worried we had so many 4th round picks still?

Round Year 1 Year 2 Year 3 Year 4 Year 5
1 99.7% 93.5% 83.9% 77.4% 71.0%
2 96.8% 96.1% 83.9% 74.2% 41.9%
3 96.9% 75.1% 62.5% 37.5% 18.8%
4 91.4% 74.3% 54.3% 34.3% 17.2%
5 81.1% 56.8% 37.8% 24.3% 16.2%
6 70.2% 57.5% 35.3% 20.9% 10.6%
7
58.3% 45.8% 31.3% 21.7% 16.7%

[Crusader]

http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/5/13/5713996/how-long-does-the-average-draft-pick-stick-around

[EdTheMythicalOne]

4 hours ago, FLBoyRaven said:

Ok I guess you didn't read the first part when I said that Stanley isn't that much better then then the other to Tackles in this draft. Your lecturing about risk/reward the why didn't we trade down. Could have gotten a 2nd or 3rd for that 6th pick and taken the top edge rusher in this class. Funny ecause I'm always right. When Lawson makes Stanley look more like a late 1st rd RT week one your gonna say damn that FLBOYRAVEN sure was right we should have used that top pick on a PROVEN top defensive player. Spriggs is just as good or better and we could have got him mid 2nd, thats value. Vontaze Burfict going undrafted the yr when we knew Sugar was gonna retire and he was the top projected ilb that would have been value but we pick and choose. La'el Collins goes undrafted and we waste late rd draft picks on guys like Waller. Monroe is on the roster and played a lot better then ppl have given him credit for, he just needs to stay healthy. Seems like latley we have been making the wrong risk/reward moves that we would normaly take. If Lawson kicks Stanley butt week one and Tunsil turns out to be a stud like Tyron someone needs to start getting looked at for a new job. Too many busted draft picks over the last few yrs. We just haven't been getting much value with our top picks and thats evident that they are all no longer on our roster. It's not science fiction Ed it's fact.

I make a habit of reading everything before I make a reply. I just didn't feel like wasting my time with a response because it is clear I am speaking to a brick wall here. Tunsil and Stanley were far and away the best left tackle prospects in this year's draft and both project to be pro-bowl franchise players. Everybody else was clearly a step or two below that. It was clear that with a top ten pick in this year's draft the Ravens didn't want to trade down. Instead, they actually tried to trade up. They had a need and a best player available in Stanley available. They decided to go with the squeaky clean brain instead of the drug-raddled idiot when talent was so close.

Apparently you weren't aware that this draft was weak in edge rushers. So, yeah, that's why you don't trade your top ten pick to go into the second round to take what is the best of one of the weakest portions of the draft. This is why Ozzie and company do what they do, and you do what you do for a living.

I doubt that phrase you mention will ever pass my lips. But I am sure your "always right" percentage will take a nose dive after Stanley starts at LT for us for the next 10 years.

Burfict went undrafted. You do realize that means EVERY team in the NFL passed on this guy. His current suspension is the reason why.

I never said Monroe was a bad player. Just the opposite. He played well WHEN he got on the field. Hello...he has missed (off the top of my head now) I think more than a full season of games over the past two seasons. If it wasn't more than half the games over that span it is darn near close to half. There is the elephant in the room. He HASN'T been on the field and you're paying him a lot of money to not play. That's a problem. I've said the same thing about others. I like Campanaro and Taliafero, but unfortunately dudes can't stay on the field. They could have the best talent there is, but if they can't keep themselves on the field to display it they can't help you.

I agree that they've struck out with quite a number of our first round picks. That's because we've been gambling with guys that "should be" top 10 picks but drop for character issues or what have you. What you fail to point out is that one of the reasons why this team has been so good over the Harbaugh run is that we've been hitting on gems in the later rounds. If you're gonna represent truth, make sure you represent all of it.

By the way, hard to bust on Waller when he's only had one season under his belt and was injured. Now he's moving to TE and could be a match up nightmare.

Edited May 10, 2016 by EdTheMythicalOne

[EdTheMythicalOne]

1 hour ago, Crusader said:

Round Year 1 Year 2 Year 3 Year 4 Year 5
1 99.7% 93.5% 83.9% 77.4% 71.0%
2 96.8% 96.1% 83.9% 74.2% 41.9%
3 96.9% 75.1% 62.5% 37.5% 18.8%
4 91.4% 74.3% 54.3% 34.3% 17.2%
5 81.1% 56.8% 37.8% 24.3% 16.2%
6 70.2% 57.5% 35.3% 20.9% 10.6%
7
58.3% 45.8% 31.3% 21.7% 16.7%

Good stuff, but I think the first round draft pick is a combination of usually being the more "surefire" picks and supposedly the best talent in the draft and the fact that they have 4 year contracts with 5th year options on them and usually make some good money. Cutting them usually will hurt you too much and teams are less likely to give up on them. Case in point with the Ravens is Matt Elam. If he was a 4th rounder or lower he'd probably already be cut.

Teams are also shying away from taking RB's in the first round because of their notoriously short shelf life, hence they go later and burn out faster...you see where I am going with that.

I'm going to take a look at the Ravens current "lock" starters on the team and divy it up on a per round basis.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

This list includes players I think SHOULD make the starting lineup and get some significant snaps next season. I didn't include our depth like 4-6 WR's and the guys that will play back up DE/DT etc. because nobody really knows who will ultimately make the cut. If I had included guys like Zach Orr; who may or may not start, but gets reps in on defense and special teams and has been on this team for a few years the numbers would skew a lot more to the middle, late, and UDFA areas.

First Round: 6

QB: Joe Flacco

CB: Jimmy Smith

MLB: C.J. Mosley

LT: Eugene Monroe ?

OLB: Terrell Suggs

TE: Ben Watson

 

Second Round: 3

S: Eric Weddle

DT: Timmy Jernigan

TE: Maxx Williams* NEW addition here, not sure why I missed him in my first draft, but this guys should see a lot of snaps and was a 2nd round pick for sure.

 

Third Round: 8

CB: Shareece Wright

S: Lardarius Webb

TE: Crockett Gillmore

C: Jeremy Zuttah

RG: Marshal Yanda

NT: Brandon Williams

WR: Steve Smith Sr.

WR: Mike Wallace

 

Fourth Round: 3 (4?)

FB: Kyle Juszczyk

OLB: Elvis Dumervil

HB: “Buck” Allen

TE: Dennis Pitta(?) I don't really think he makes a comeback, but if he does he deserves to be on the list.

 

Fifth Round: 1

RT: Rick Wagner

 

Sixth Round: 2

G: Ryan Jensen

P: Sam Koch

 

Seventh Round: 2

HB: Justin Forsett

DT/DE: Lawrence Guy

 

UDFA: 3

WR: Kamar Aiken

K: Justin Tucker

LS: Morgan Cox (I know what you're saying, SNAPPER? Still, Cox is one of the best in the game and he still gets a roster spot and has locked one down for years now with the Ravens.)

Edited May 11, 2016 by EdTheMythicalOne

[TheConquerorWorm]

  On 5/9/2016 at 8:50 PM, EdTheMythicalOne said:

  On 5/8/2016 at 2:23 PM, FLBoyRaven said:

Not only that we like to pick and choose when we take players with off the field issues like Tunsil, Spence, Burfict, Jimmy Smith etc but we draft a guy in the 4th rd who was arrested and had to transfer schools because he choose to jump a guy and bash dudes head into a brick wall or w.e. Just funny how we pick and choose but it will end up bitting us in the booty if we keep doing this. Some good players we have past on in the past. Look up Alex Lewis.

You pick and choose your poisons based off of risk/reward.

A guy like Jimmy Smith had issues with weed that the Ravens were sure they could clean up and he had lock down corner potential with rare size and speed for the position. Smith also was a 27th overall pick. Tunsil was slotted to us at #6 and would be responsible for protecting a franchise QB and he has shown some very poor judgement. It wasn't just about the pot. He was in Robert Nkemdiche's apartment when Nkemdiche fell out of the 4th floor window. He was involved in a domestic abuse altercation with his father in law and both men provided different stories to what happened. He accepted payment in college and was dumb enough to leave the transactions on his cell phone. Then there is the pot thing. Also, he was never able to stay on the field due to numerous injuries. How's that sounding for a top 10 pick?

Alex Lewis served his time and he says he's grown up from the altercation. Did he? Nobody really knows until he lives his life some more. But the risk here is a 4th round pick with the potential to have a starting guard or possible swing/starting tackle. He gets in trouble you cut him and cost yourself some thousands of dollars instead of multiple millions.

Ok I guess you didn't read the first part when I said that Stanley isn't that much better then then the other to Tackles in this draft. Your lecturing about risk/reward the why didn't we trade down. Could have gotten a 2nd or 3rd for that 6th pick and taken the top edge rusher in this class. Funny ecause I'm always right. When Lawson makes Stanley look more like a late 1st rd RT week one your gonna say damn that FLBOYRAVEN sure was right we should have used that top pick on a PROVEN top defensive player. Spriggs is just as good or better and we could have got him mid 2nd, thats value. Vontaze Burfict going undrafted the yr when we knew Sugar was gonna retire and he was the top projected ilb that would have been value but we pick and choose. La'el Collins goes undrafted and we waste late rd draft picks on guys like Waller. Monroe is on the roster and played a lot better then ppl have given him credit for, he just needs to stay healthy. Seems like latley we have been making the wrong risk/reward moves that we would normaly take. If Lawson kicks Stanley butt week one and Tunsil turns out to be a stud like Tyron someone needs to start getting looked at for a new job. Too many busted draft picks over the last few yrs. We just haven't been getting much value with our top picks and thats evident that they are all no longer on our roster. It's not science fiction Ed it's fact.

You do realize that Stanley already dominated Lawson this past year.....And you do also realize that Ozzie and others in the draft room said that NO ONE was calling to trade for that pick (Fact). So, please tell us how you make a trade back without another team? I guess your imaginary team would trade us their imaginary 2nd to move up?

[huntrgathrr]

Adding Stanley was a critical move given the loss of Osemele. We will have a top 5 offensive line. Hurst, Urshel, Jensen and probably Lewis will be great backups. I'd like to see Monroe at left guard next to Stanley.
This year's draft will prove to be one of the Raven's best. Lots of talent all over the field. Moore and Dixon will be great additions and give us quality depth. Young, Kaufusi, Correa and Henry will all see playing time and will hopefully strengthen a defense that will suffer with the loss of Upshaw and Will Hill. Getting Weddle was a HUGE move that should make everybody better in the secondary
This team seems to be really well rounded and has a chance to return to the playoffs.
We should be really deep at receiver if Perriman and Smith return healthy. Adding Wallace and Moore should be helpful. Brown, and Waller will be forced to play up to their potential if they want to get on the field. A healthy Gilmore and a more experienced Williams will gave Flacco plenty options.
Trestman needs to come up with a better performance than last year. He's got the weapons. Hopefully the change to grass will reduce the ridiculous number of injuries we suffered the last 2 years.
Harbaugh has no excuse not to have a really good season. With excellent special teams this team doesn't have any glaring weaknesses.

[FLBoyRaven]

  On 5/9/2016 at 7:32 PM, FLBoyRaven said:

  On 5/9/2016 at 8:50 PM, EdTheMythicalOne said:

  On 5/8/2016 at 2:23 PM, FLBoyRaven said:

Not only that we like to pick and choose when we take players with off the field issues like Tunsil, Spence, Burfict, Jimmy Smith etc but we draft a guy in the 4th rd who was arrested and had to transfer schools because he choose to jump a guy and bash dudes head into a brick wall or w.e. Just funny how we pick and choose but it will end up bitting us in the booty if we keep doing this. Some good players we have past on in the past. Look up Alex Lewis.

You pick and choose your poisons based off of risk/reward.

A guy like Jimmy Smith had issues with weed that the Ravens were sure they could clean up and he had lock down corner potential with rare size and speed for the position. Smith also was a 27th overall pick. Tunsil was slotted to us at #6 and would be responsible for protecting a franchise QB and he has shown some very poor judgement. It wasn't just about the pot. He was in Robert Nkemdiche's apartment when Nkemdiche fell out of the 4th floor window. He was involved in a domestic abuse altercation with his father in law and both men provided different stories to what happened. He accepted payment in college and was dumb enough to leave the transactions on his cell phone. Then there is the pot thing. Also, he was never able to stay on the field due to numerous injuries. How's that sounding for a top 10 pick?

Alex Lewis served his time and he says he's grown up from the altercation. Did he? Nobody really knows until he lives his life some more. But the risk here is a 4th round pick with the potential to have a starting guard or possible swing/starting tackle. He gets in trouble you cut him and cost yourself some thousands of dollars instead of multiple millions.

Ok I guess you didn't read the first part when I said that Stanley isn't that much better then then the other to Tackles in this draft. Your lecturing about risk/reward the why didn't we trade down. Could have gotten a 2nd or 3rd for that 6th pick and taken the top edge rusher in this class. Funny ecause I'm always right. When Lawson makes Stanley look more like a late 1st rd RT week one your gonna say damn that FLBOYRAVEN sure was right we should have used that top pick on a PROVEN top defensive player. Spriggs is just as good or better and we could have got him mid 2nd, thats value. Vontaze Burfict going undrafted the yr when we knew Sugar was gonna retire and he was the top projected ilb that would have been value but we pick and choose. La'el Collins goes undrafted and we waste late rd draft picks on guys like Waller. Monroe is on the roster and played a lot better then ppl have given him credit for, he just needs to stay healthy. Seems like latley we have been making the wrong risk/reward moves that we would normaly take. If Lawson kicks Stanley butt week one and Tunsil turns out to be a stud like Tyron someone needs to start getting looked at for a new job. Too many busted draft picks over the last few yrs. We just haven't been getting much value with our top picks and thats evident that they are all no longer on our roster. It's not science fiction Ed it's fact.

You do realize that Stanley already dominated Lawson this past year.....And you do also realize that Ozzie and others in the draft room said that NO ONE was calling to trade for that pick (Fact). So, please tell us how you make a trade back without another team? I guess your imaginary team would trade us their imaginary 2nd to move up?

When was this dominating performance this past yr. I recall Clemson kicking butt. Stanley was beat man to man many times, they tried to run away from Lawsons side actually so again your opinion is just that "Fried bolognia". Now the trade part is what it is can't harp on that but don't act like there weren't other players that are better more clean players that can step in now. Stanley wold be a RT and to draft a RT or G that high is redick. He's not that much better then some of the other top T in this draft. If he starts at LT this yr I see him struggling against stronger guys. Maybe a few yrs from now but a 6th overall pick to me should be plug and play. Buckner, Lawson, Eli Apple, Rankins are solid. Just like the yr Aaron Donald was drafted I said he might just be the best player in the draft, everyone was giving me neg feedback just like you are now. But hey its ok to have your own views on your team just like I do.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

2 hours ago, FLBoyRaven said:

When was this dominating performance this past yr. I recall Clemson kicking butt. Stanley was beat man to man many times, they tried to run away from Lawsons side actually so again your opinion is just that "Fried bolognia". Now the trade part is what it is can't harp on that but don't act like there weren't other players that are better more clean players that can step in now. Stanley wold be a RT and to draft a RT or G that high is redick. He's not that much better then some of the other top T in this draft. If he starts at LT this yr I see him struggling against stronger guys. Maybe a few yrs from now but a 6th overall pick to me should be plug and play. Buckner, Lawson, Eli Apple, Rankins are solid. Just like the yr Aaron Donald was drafted I said he might just be the best player in the draft, everyone was giving me neg feedback just like you are now. But hey its ok to have your own views on your team just like I do.

1) I can't comment on the college game because I didn't see it. I'll let you and FLBoy discuss that matter...just making a disclaimer here so you don't think I am forgetting something just because I don't address it specifically.

2) At # 6 Ramsey and Bosa were gone, and Bosa wasn't exactly clean. Jack was on the board but NOBODY picked him up in the first round due to his knee concerns. So whom pray tell do you select at #6 after trying to trade up to take Ramsey and failing, and nobody calling to trade down with you? The best LT on the board was available but had some seriously crazy off field stuff, so instead of taking 1A, the Ravens took 1B. Many other sources reported Tunsil's stock dropping and Stanley's rising. Stanley's bread and butter is the pass protection game but he's supposedly better in run blocking than Tunsil. I doubt seriously that Stanley will be a RT. We do have Ricky Wagner. He's coming off of a foot injury like Smith, and just like Smith he's in his second year of recovery. IF, Ricky looks as shaky as he did last season MAYBE the Ravens toy with the idea of playing Stanley at RT. Maybe not. Yanda can always play RT, put Stanley in at LG, Monroe if healthy and still on the team plays LT, Zuttah at C, Ryan Jensen or John Urshel can play RG.

3) According to draft grades and what scouts say, Tunsil and Stanley were far and away the cream of the crop of the LEFT tackles. Everyone else was clearly a step or two below them. Jack Conklin grades out almost as high as Stanley but for different reasons. He's a scrapper, sort of like a Marshal Yanda. He doesn't have good technique or quick feet and could be a liability in pass protection but should be a good run blocker. That's not what you want protecting the blind side of your franchise QB.

4) While the other names you mention you THINK will be solid; nothing is etched in stone and draft busts happen all the time, SCOUTS and people that do this for a living think Stanley can be a franchise and pro bowl level LT. That's a very valuable commodity in today's pass heavy NFL.

Edited May 11, 2016 by EdTheMythicalOne

[EdTheMythicalOne]

10 hours ago, huntrgathrr said:

Adding Stanley was a critical move given the loss of Osemele. We will have a top 5 offensive line. Hurst, Urshel, Jensen and probably Lewis will be great backups. I'd like to see Monroe at left guard next to Stanley.
This year's draft will prove to be one of the Raven's best. Lots of talent all over the field. Moore and Dixon will be great additions and give us quality depth. Young, Kaufusi, Correa and Henry will all see playing time and will hopefully strengthen a defense that will suffer with the loss of Upshaw and Will Hill. Getting Weddle was a HUGE move that should make everybody better in the secondary
This team seems to be really well rounded and has a chance to return to the playoffs.
We should be really deep at receiver if Perriman and Smith return healthy. Adding Wallace and Moore should be helpful. Brown, and Waller will be forced to play up to their potential if they want to get on the field. A healthy Gilmore and a more experienced Williams will gave Flacco plenty options.
Trestman needs to come up with a better performance than last year. He's got the weapons. Hopefully the change to grass will reduce the ridiculous number of injuries we suffered the last 2 years.
Harbaugh has no excuse not to have a really good season. With excellent special teams this team doesn't have any glaring weaknesses.

I like a lot of what you got in here. There are a few points I'd like to banter around with you.

I don't think James Hurst is a quality tackle and I think his time in Baltimore is done. There are plenty of other guys in the mix now for his spot. Jensen is a quality back up/swing guard and can spot start for you in a pinch. I think Urshel's future is as the replacement for Zuttah at C when his contract runs out. I think guys like Matt Skura and Alex Lewis could have a good future.

I agree that I think the draft was a good "depth" draft. We got what we needed in a potential franchise LT in the first round. After that we have potential pieces for the future at edge rusher, the defensive front line, and some speed and depth at the WR/CB positions.

I don't think we will be missing Upshaw or Hill that much. Both were extreme one dimensional players that were liabilities on the field in the things they did not do. Usphaw created no pass rush so teams could remove Dumervil from the equation when we lost Suggs. Will Hill was a good run stuffer and thumper, but was a liability in coverage.

You didn't mention Ben Watson at TE who is a very reliable target, to go along with Maxx Williams and Crockett. If Pitta actually manages to return to the field then we have an extremely interesting problem. The Ravens would become the first team to go quadruple TE formation! Just kidding.

I think Trestman should have a better year. Remember he was trying to keep a lot of the same things that Kubiak was doing so that there wouldn't be as much turmoil with learning a new offense. Now that the guys are in their second season and more comfortable with Trestman...hopefully, he can start to institute more of his own gameplan.

I think we had a playoff level team last year before all of the injuries. I see no reason why this team if it is once again healthy is not capable of winning 9-10 games and getting into the playoffs again.