[News] Eisenberg: Can 'Five Guys' Meet High Goals?

[BR News]

The Ravens have lofty hopes for their quintet of 2016 fourth-round draft picks.

View the full article

[ravens4life86]

I like that "Five Guys"..high expectations..but everyone is saying this could be a all time 4th round. So I see great things from them

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Love this crew. Great value and huge upside in some. I think Dixon will eventually be our lead back and early on be the 3rd down guy with some snaps in the slot. Lewis is a dark horse candidate for a starting guard spot and will push Wagner at RT. I really hope Young doesnt win the nickel job, and thats nothing against him - i think hes good enough to do it - but if Arrington can return to how he played for the Pats then i dont see any way Young gets the job. That would be a good thing for the team. Henry, man hes in a tough spot. Theres just so much young, talented depth there already. But he should find himself in the rotation at DT with Jernigan and others. Id like to see Moore get some snaps. He seems to me like a guy that wont pop off the field at practice, but just balls during games. In his tape, hes always getting open behind the D. And it just doesnt make sense bc hes not blazing fast, hes not a great route runner, theres just something deceptive about him. He wins deep. Great crew, that should be an integral part of the roster in a couple years.

[bmorefan444]

I hope these Young men are Henry to play our rivals on the other side of the mason Dixon line and stack up Moore wins than Lewis's.

I'll see my way out.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

How good each player can be and will be is all in their hands. It's up to them to make the right decisions on and off the field. It's up to them to listen to what the coaches and veteran players are trying to teach them. All of them can be great they just have to go out and make it happen. When they get beat learn from it and when they are the ones doing the beating then don't get a big head.

[sami]

Love this crew. Great value and huge upside in some. I think Dixon will eventually be our lead back and early on be the 3rd down guy with some snaps in the slot. Lewis is a dark horse candidate for a starting guard spot and will push Wagner at RT. I really hope Young doesnt win the nickel job, and thats nothing against him - i think hes good enough to do it - but if Arrington can return to how he played for the Pats then i dont see any way Young gets the job. That would be a good thing for the team. Henry, man hes in a tough spot. Theres just so much young, talented depth there already. But he should find himself in the rotation at DT with Jernigan and others. Id like to see Moore get some snaps. He seems to me like a guy that wont pop off the field at practice, but just balls during games. In his tape, hes always getting open behind the D. And it just doesnt make sense bc hes not blazing fast, hes not a great route runner, theres just something deceptive about him. He wins deep. Great crew, that should be an integral part of the roster in a couple years.

Actually Moore is really good at his routes. He knows when to break and his speed is deceptive. Jerry Rice wasn't even close to the fastest guy but he could "feel" when it was time to make the break. Moore has the same quality. Im not saying hes Jerry Rice but theres more to route running than speed.

[robbie29]

I miss the days when each year at least one Baltimore draft pick was a virtual lock to be a Pro Bowler. These days, the Ravens are lucky to draft a few guys who are above average. Neg me if you want, but you can't deny the drafts of late (since 2008) are nowhere near as productive as the 1996-2003 drafts were. Here's hoping this year's draft class tears it up and bucks that recent trend. Go Ravens.

[glen ferguson]

I think it should be five plus 'one'. I put Judon in that group. I have very high expectation for him , he is gonna be a force to be recon with, mark my word. I'll label him " THE TERRORIST `` as of now lol.

[Ravensfansince03]

Honestly, the way I look at it, all of our draft picks should be looked at no higher than the back-up guys we had last season....until they prove otherwise.

[fluffy201]

Honestly, the way I look at it, all of our draft picks should be looked at no higher than the back-up guys we had last season....until they prove otherwise.

True, but out of 11 players, I would hope that at least three come in and make a contributions immediately and hopefully another two come ready for 2017. Seems like given 11 picks we are sure to have a few surprises as well. If we don't, well than we can say the dark times are among us haha

[purpledown]

can see Dixon starting at some point this year.

[Liveitfully]

John. First, I respect your insight and your writing. You're one of the best.

Now, thought I would share thoughts on an interview that I saw last night with Jalen Ramsey and Myles Jack. It was chilling to say the least, and absolutely cut to the core.

Should Jack's knee hold up, and it's a big unknown, this draft should go down as our very worst and someone should be held accountable. This club has badly needed an infusion of Reed/Ray type talent for how long, and the draft set up in a way that this new duo of Ramsey and Jack could have been wearing purple.

I won't get into every detail of what I heard, and saw; but the tape doesn't lie, and watching Jack go through the Jaguars rookie minicamp workouts was unsettling. His explosion, fluidity and speed reminded no one of a guy with a bad knee.

And Ramsey. Well there is little that needs to be said. If Ozzie and Harbaugh believe that the combo of Stanley and Kaufusi make the Ravens a better team than Jalen alone, they are surely in the minority. They passed on a Deion type talent, but with more physical ability.

So here's to rooting for Stanley/Correa/Kaufusi. Let's hope that the trio more than holds their own. Otheriwse it's going to be very hard on Sundays to listen to Jaguar updates, and how Jack and Ramsey reminds some of a young Ray and Reed.

[KidNme]

If nothing else, over the years, I've learned not to get too excited about ANY players until we actually see them on the field. With the 11 guys, I see 3 making the final team roster and maybe 2 more on the PS.

[harfordravenfan]

5 minutes ago, KidNme said:

If nothing else, over the years, I've learned not to get too excited about ANY players until we actually see them on the field. With the 11 guys, I see 3 making the final team roster and maybe 2 more on the PS.

You think 6 of our rookies are getting cut this year? 

[whobilly]

If nothing else, over the years, I've learned not to get too excited about ANY players until we actually see them on the field. With the 11 guys, I see 3 making the final team roster and maybe 2 more on the PS.

I'm gonna go with 5. The top three picks plus Dixon and Moore. Moore makes it because SSS, Aiken,(fingers crossed) and MAYBE Perriman gets back on the field. All of our other receivers are what is referred to as a JAG.....Just Another Guy. As far as Urban, Taliaferro, and Juszczyk distinguishing themselves, other than Juice getting on the field in spurts, I'd say the "Distinguished Bar" has been set pretty low.

[ellicottraven]

If we can get 5 starters out of these players by 2017, this would perhaps be DeCosta's crowning moment. All of us avid followers understand clearly it was DeCosta's board and strategy that played out. Ozzie alluded to it as such in his presser. I believe we may get as many as 7 starters out of the final 8 picks and may be 10 out of 11! If we can pepper this lot with a few pro bowlers, this may in fact be the best draft we've had in the last decade or so.

[goldenboldin]

John. First, I respect your insight and your writing. You're one of the best.

Now, thought I would share thoughts on an interview that I saw last night with Jalen Ramsey and Myles Jack. It was chilling to say the least, and absolutely cut to the core.

Should Jack's knee hold up, and it's a big unknown, this draft should go down as our very worst and someone should be held accountable. This club has badly needed an infusion of Reed/Ray type talent for how long, and the draft set up in a way that this new duo of Ramsey and Jack could have been wearing purple.

I won't get into every detail of what I heard, and saw; but the tape doesn't lie, and watching Jack go through the Jaguars rookie minicamp workouts was unsettling. His explosion, fluidity and speed reminded no one of a guy with a bad knee.

And Ramsey. Well there is little that needs to be said. If Ozzie and Harbaugh believe that the combo of Stanley and Kaufusi make the Ravens a better team than Jalen alone, they are surely in the minority. They passed on a Deion type talent, but with more physical ability.

So here's to rooting for Stanley/Correa/Kaufusi. Let's hope that the trio more than holds their own. Otheriwse it's going to be very hard on Sundays to listen to Jaguar updates, and how Jack and Ramsey reminds some of a young Ray and Reed.

I agree wholeheartedly, I am not upset with the 4th and 5th rounders the Ravens picked, but Ramsey and Jack are rare breeds. Its just my opinion that Oz didn't want to surrender a better pick to Dallas to grab Ramsey. Even if they parted with their third pick, they would still have a chance of getting some if not all of these guys in the 4th and 5th rounds... while also getting Ramsey. Same goes for passing on Jack when he was in our lap. Who know what will happen but this team never gets this chance to choose the elite of the crop as they got this year. And as Eisenberg said many of these guys we drafted won't be starters this year. At the same time I'm sure our team is safely secure for the next few years to come so we'll see. Heres hoping for a bounce back year!

[CaliRavenFan]

13 hours ago, Liveitfully said:

John. First, I respect your insight and your writing. You're one of the best.

Now, thought I would share thoughts on an interview that I saw last night with Jalen Ramsey and Myles Jack. It was chilling to say the least, and absolutely cut to the core.

Should Jack's knee hold up, and it's a big unknown, this draft should go down as our very worst and someone should be held accountable. This club has badly needed an infusion of Reed/Ray type talent for how long, and the draft set up in a way that this new duo of Ramsey and Jack could have been wearing purple.

I won't get into every detail of what I heard, and saw; but the tape doesn't lie, and watching Jack go through the Jaguars rookie minicamp workouts was unsettling. His explosion, fluidity and speed reminded no one of a guy with a bad knee.

And Ramsey. Well there is little that needs to be said. If Ozzie and Harbaugh believe that the combo of Stanley and Kaufusi make the Ravens a better team than Jalen alone, they are surely in the minority. They passed on a Deion type talent, but with more physical ability.

So here's to rooting for Stanley/Correa/Kaufusi. Let's hope that the trio more than holds their own. Otheriwse it's going to be very hard on Sundays to listen to Jaguar updates, and how Jack and Ramsey reminds some of a young Ray and Reed.
 

While I love Myles Jack and was extremely upset when we passed on him in the 2nd Rd, I hope he has an amazing career and stays healthy. I'm not a huge fan of Ramsey but he could prove me wrong.

Simple facts is if we traded up we wouldnt have a franchise LT or our 6'6 Bronson Wall, trading back and missing out on Jack gave us 2 extra great depth players also. I know ideally you want Ramsey or Jack but when it turns out to be a situation where you get 4 extra players out of it and with a team that showed obvious depth problems last year you have to play conservative.

[MYTH420]

  On 5/8/2016 at 8:36 AM, KidNme said:

If nothing else, over the years, I've learned not to get too excited about ANY players until we actually see them on the field. With the 11 guys, I see 3 making the final team roster and maybe 2 more on the PS.

I'm gonna go with 5. The top three picks plus Dixon and Moore. Moore makes it because SSS, Aiken,(fingers crossed) and MAYBE Perriman gets back on the field. All of our other receivers are what is referred to as a JAG.....Just Another Guy. As far as Urban, Taliaferro, and Juszczyk distinguishing themselves, other than Juice getting on the field in spurts, I'd say the "Distinguished Bar" has been set pretty low.

Your nuts! Every pick will make the team except 2 and even they have a shot. Reynolds and Canady won't make it, but... Reynolds will be battling with Campanaro for the 7th WR spot and K/P return duties. Canady could be the 53rd man, if he looks good they could part with Arrington. But it's almost a lock that our first 8 picks make the team, and I believe Judon will also make it because of his pass rush ability. You guys sound like you know nothing about football, especially KidNme.

[eze17]

  On 5/8/2016 at 8:57 AM, whobilly said:

  On 5/8/2016 at 8:36 AM, KidNme said:

If nothing else, over the years, I've learned not to get too excited about ANY players until we actually see them on the field. With the 11 guys, I see 3 making the final team roster and maybe 2 more on the PS.

I'm gonna go with 5. The top three picks plus Dixon and Moore. Moore makes it because SSS, Aiken,(fingers crossed) and MAYBE Perriman gets back on the field. All of our other receivers are what is referred to as a JAG.....Just Another Guy. As far as Urban, Taliaferro, and Juszczyk distinguishing themselves, other than Juice getting on the field in spurts, I'd say the "Distinguished Bar" has been set pretty low.

Your nuts! Every pick will make the team except 2 and even they have a shot. Reynolds and Canady won't make it, but... Reynolds will be battling with Campanaro for the 7th WR spot and K/P return duties. Canady could be the 53rd man, if he looks good they could part with Arrington. But it's almost a lock that our first 8 picks make the team, and I believe Judon will also make it because of his pass rush ability. You guys sound like you know nothing about football, especially KidNme.

Agreed. Alot of people seem to think that we will not turn this roster over much...well, when you go 5-11, some heads are gonna roll...

[Purple Dawg 96]

I don't think Henry will make it Zeke ran all over that school up north! Or maybe that's the Buckeye in me! Lol

[rmcjacket23]

On 5/8/2016 at 8:19 AM, Liveitfully said:

John. First, I respect your insight and your writing. You're one of the best.

Now, thought I would share thoughts on an interview that I saw last night with Jalen Ramsey and Myles Jack. It was chilling to say the least, and absolutely cut to the core.

Should Jack's knee hold up, and it's a big unknown, this draft should go down as our very worst and someone should be held accountable. This club has badly needed an infusion of Reed/Ray type talent for how long, and the draft set up in a way that this new duo of Ramsey and Jack could have been wearing purple.

I won't get into every detail of what I heard, and saw; but the tape doesn't lie, and watching Jack go through the Jaguars rookie minicamp workouts was unsettling. His explosion, fluidity and speed reminded no one of a guy with a bad knee.

And Ramsey. Well there is little that needs to be said. If Ozzie and Harbaugh believe that the combo of Stanley and Kaufusi make the Ravens a better team than Jalen alone, they are surely in the minority. They passed on a Deion type talent, but with more physical ability.

So here's to rooting for Stanley/Correa/Kaufusi. Let's hope that the trio more than holds their own. Otheriwse it's going to be very hard on Sundays to listen to Jaguar updates, and how Jack and Ramsey reminds some of a young Ray and Reed.
 

Not really sure we want to be in the business of trying to clone Ed Reed and Ray Lewis, considering their brand of football doesn't fit nearly as well in the present day NFL as it did 10 or 15 years ago.

I think too many Ravens fans spent too much time trying to re-create the fast with absolutely no concept of what really matters in the present or future.

[Tru11]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Not really sure we want to be in the business of trying to clone Ed Reed and Ray Lewis, considering their brand of football doesn't fit nearly as well in the present day NFL as it did 10 or 15 years ago.

I think too many Ravens fans spent too much time trying to re-create the fast with absolutely no concept of what really matters in the present or future.

quite curious on why you say their brand does not nearly fit as well in this age.

care to explain?

 

[rmcjacket23]

8 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

quite curious on why you say their brand does not nearly fit as well in this age.

care to explain?

 

1. Ed Reed for much of his career was primarily a deep center field safety, meaning he took away the deep ball from many teams. In today's NFL, teams don't generally throw deep nearly as much, so what exact role would he have? Tom Brady and Peyton Manning would just throw 5-10 yard passes all game long and it'd basically be 11 on 10. While he wasn't always this way, he also struggled in the back half of his career with tackling, which is pretty much a death sentence in the present day NFL.

2. Ray's style would still fit fairly well, though his coverage skills were never great. In the present day NFL, that's a problem, because there aren't too many teams who need sideline to sideline run stoppers, which he was probably the best all-time at in his prime. I'd do what the Pats did in the AFC championship game... just not run the ball at all. 

Attack the middle of the field and sidelines with short, intermediate passing, very little run game, and you've largely reduced the production from those two players right there. Granted, not all teams can do this, but practically all of the really good QBs in this league could.

[berad]

4 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. Ed Reed for much of his career was primarily a deep center field safety, meaning he took away the deep ball from many teams. In today's NFL, teams don't generally throw deep nearly as much, so what exact role would he have? Tom Brady and Peyton Manning would just throw 5-10 yard passes all game long and it'd basically be 11 on 10. While he wasn't always this way, he also struggled in the back half of his career with tackling, which is pretty much a death sentence in the present day NFL.

2. Ray's style would still fit fairly well, though his coverage skills were never great. In the present day NFL, that's a problem, because there aren't too many teams who need sideline to sideline run stoppers, which he was probably the best all-time at in his prime. I'd do what the Pats did in the AFC championship game... just not run the ball at all. 

Attack the middle of the field and sidelines with short, intermediate passing, very little run game, and you've largely reduced the production from those two players right there. Granted, not all teams can do this, but practically all of the really good QBs in this league could.

But that's the point of a great defender. Sure, there are ways to scheme around someone but the mere fact you can't run your full offense means those players are taking something from you. You can run to the opposite side of JJ Watt or throw to the side of the field Richard Sherman isn't covering but the defenders will catch on that you're doing so.

Good QBs and good offensive schemes overcome, sure, but taking away chunks of an opposing offense is a tremendous asset and something that gets referenced all the time about great players.

[Tru11]

15 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. Ed Reed for much of his career was primarily a deep center field safety, meaning he took away the deep ball from many teams. In today's NFL, teams don't generally throw deep nearly as much, so what exact role would he have? Tom Brady and Peyton Manning would just throw 5-10 yard passes all game long and it'd basically be 11 on 10. While he wasn't always this way, he also struggled in the back half of his career with tackling, which is pretty much a death sentence in the present day NFL.

2. Ray's style would still fit fairly well, though his coverage skills were never great. In the present day NFL, that's a problem, because there aren't too many teams who need sideline to sideline run stoppers, which he was probably the best all-time at in his prime. I'd do what the Pats did in the AFC championship game... just not run the ball at all. 

Attack the middle of the field and sidelines with short, intermediate passing, very little run game, and you've largely reduced the production from those two players right there. Granted, not all teams can do this, but practically all of the really good QBs in this league could.

1 i take it you did not see Ed reed play in his early years?

he started as a SS and made tons of plays around the LOS.
heck he won a defensive player of the year as a SS.
he could cover slot receivers and TE as the best back then lol.

his skillset translate just fine to today NFL TBH.
his tackling issues later in his career had more to do with the lingering issues he had like that pinched nerve in his neck.
its also why he was used more as a deep centre fielder later in his career.

2 i dont really know what to say , cause ray was pretty darn good in coverage.
i mean guys like wagner , keuchly and bowman do just fine and ray was better then those guys in his prime.

TBH im getting the feeling that you are just looking at how both of them where at the end of their career in which yeah they had no place anymore.

In their prime they would still be the best players at their position in the current NFL.

 

[rmcjacket23]

13 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

1 i take it you did not see Ed reed play in his early years?

he started as a SS and made tons of plays around the LOS.
heck he won a defensive player of the year as a SS.
he could cover slot receivers and TE as the best back then lol.

his skillset translate just fine to today NFL TBH.
his tackling issues later in his career had more to do with the lingering issues he had like that pinched nerve in his neck.
its also why he was used more as a deep centre fielder later in his career.

2 i dont really know what to say , cause ray was pretty darn good in coverage.
i mean guys like wagner , keuchly and bowman do just fine and ray was better then those guys in his prime.

TBH im getting the feeling that you are just looking at how both of them where at the end of their career in which yeah they had no place anymore.

In their prime they would still be the best players at their position in the current NFL.

 

No, I remember how Ed was when we started... but that's also not the kind of player people are describing when they want us to get another Ed Reed. When people describe the Ed Reed they want on this team currently, its not the box safety who is laying big hits in the middle of the field. 

Guys like Wagner and Kuechly, in my opinion, are significantly better in coverage than Ray was. Ray was significantly better against the run than they were. I suppose you could argue its tough to tell, given how much more coverage those LBs are required to play than Ray was, but I never viewed Ray as a really great coverage linebacker. He was a great leader, had great sideline-to-sideline speed, and was a great tackler and pursuer. 

[rmcjacket23]

42 minutes ago, berad said:

But that's the point of a great defender. Sure, there are ways to scheme around someone but the mere fact you can't run your full offense means those players are taking something from you. You can run to the opposite side of JJ Watt or throw to the side of the field Richard Sherman isn't covering but the defenders will catch on that you're doing so.

Good QBs and good offensive schemes overcome, sure, but taking away chunks of an opposing offense is a tremendous asset and something that gets referenced all the time about great players.

Possibly, but that also implies that players like Ray or Ed would actually require a team to make significant adjustments. There's a few teams in this league, like the Patriots for example, who wouldn't really have to alter their base offensive gameplan much at all if those two players were on the field. 10 years ago, when Brady was throwing deep with Moss, yes, he had to know where Ed Reed was. Even maybe 5 years ago that was the case. But that offense is much different now, and so are many of the offenses in this league.

Granted, NE is only one team, but that's also the team by watch every other team in the AFC is measured against, due to them being so dominant for so long. Its why teams like Seattle and Carolina, that are built much differently than the old Ravens teams were, give teams like NE, Denver, and GB a fit on defense. Its because their defensive strengths match up well with the offensive strengths of those teams.

[Tru11]

13 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

No, I remember how Ed was when we started... but that's also not the kind of player people are describing when they want us to get another Ed Reed. When people describe the Ed Reed they want on this team currently, its not the box safety who is laying big hits in the middle of the field. 

Guys like Wagner and Kuechly, in my opinion, are significantly better in coverage than Ray was. Ray was significantly better against the run than they were. I suppose you could argue its tough to tell, given how much more coverage those LBs are required to play than Ray was, but I never viewed Ray as a really great coverage linebacker. He was a great leader, had great sideline-to-sideline speed, and was a great tackler and pursuer. 

well if you actually watched us play these past seasons you probably saw us giving up quite a few big plays in the passing.
you saw a lot of receivers get behind our secondary and score TDs.

so its not that weird for people to want a safety like ed reed who can sit deep and pretty much cancel out any big play.

raiders game all 3 passing TDs where pretty much deep balls.
bengals game AJ green.
San fran torrey smith, Patton TD.
malcom floyd Chargers
lance kendricks rams.
travis benjamin browns
devante parker dolphins
baldwin , lockette hawks.
Eiffert bengals.

just a simple list of last season alone all passing TDs that covered a lot of yards.
have not even listed big runs that went for a TD or big pass plays that only gained yards.

Quite honestly we gave up a lot of big plays deep and got very few turnovers.
Suprisingly thats where Reed excelled during his career : limit big plays and create turnovers.

no idea how you can actually sit there and argue that his skillset wont translate well to today game.
i havent even talked about having him on the field covering deep , allows the rest of the defense to actually sit on those short and intermediate routes that teams like the pats love to use.
heck using press and forcing receivers to release to the middle of the field would be quite a weapon tbh.

Hell how many times was ed covering deep then due to his IQ made a play on a short pass?

you are seriously selling the man short cause he was downright brilliant in his prime and he would fit in any era and dominate.

Regarding Ray lewis i cant really take you serious tbh.
Acting like Ray was nothing more then a run stopper is really insulting to a man who is in the conversation of being the best at his position ever.

Wagner and Keuchly are pretty much patrolling the middle in that zone based scheme that their teams run and thats exactly what ray did here in his prime.
He could do it all TBH.
I dont think you become defensive player of the year as a lber just stopping then run.

You probably have your reasons for selling them both short saying they dont quite fit this age but personally i find it ridiculous.

talents like them with their football IQ would fair well in any age.