[News] Eisenberg: Be Careful with the 'Choirboy' Narrative

[J.O.14]

  15 hours ago, ravefan52 said:

I do think this team has lost a ton of its swagger and pretty soon there will be none left. In a couple years SSS, Suggs, Weddle and Dumervil will all be gone, with Yanda not far behind. Those guys that brought that swagger, confidence and meanness will be gone and there are no young players to take their spots.

Our defense, in particular, has pretty much lost all of its swagger and identity. We don't have any defenders who strike fear into opponents. Long gone are the days of Lewis, Reed, Ngata, Suggs, Boulware, Scott, Thomas and Pollard. Even on offense we don't have guys like Jamal Lewis, Boldin and Rice anymore.

Also, there's a big difference between players who get in trouble and ones who play with swagger. When I'm talking about swagger I'm not talking about Alex Lewis, who btw is a late 4th round pick, in a draft class of 11 players.

I really don't want choirboys or trouble makers, I want studs who will go ball out on the field. I think that's why some people are mad, because we missed golden opportunities to address that. We passed on guys like Ramsey, Jack, Spence and even Tunsil, players who would bring that swagger not to mention excellent play, for Stanley, Correa and Kaufusi, safe, high character picks.

So you personally know that Ramsey,Jack Spence and Tunsil have swagger? Why? Cause they run their mouth? Just because they come across as loud doesn't mean they have any leadership skills or can motivate team mates the way Lewis/Reed/Suggs have done. Nobody knows how any of these guys will act. For that matter, how do you know that Stanley,Correa and Kaufusi, just because they are reguarded as high character guys, won't come in here breathing fire and giving the team a much needed shot of adrenalin? Sorry, we don't know any of this. It's only your speculation that you've based on hearing talking heads on TV or the internet claiming they know more than anyone else. I'll wait and see them play football before I make my decision.

Exactly, and by the looks of Correa's highlight video (I only watched a little bit of it) it seems that he isn't afraid to let you know when he makes a play on you. He looks like he plays with passion and intensity, which to me looks like a little bit of swagger. Now will he do that here in the NFL? I guess time will tell.

[J.O.14]

  15 hours ago, ravefan52 said:

I do think this team has lost a ton of its swagger and pretty soon there will be none left. In a couple years SSS, Suggs, Weddle and Dumervil will all be gone, with Yanda not far behind. Those guys that brought that swagger, confidence and meanness will be gone and there are no young players to take their spots.

Our defense, in particular, has pretty much lost all of its swagger and identity. We don't have any defenders who strike fear into opponents. Long gone are the days of Lewis, Reed, Ngata, Suggs, Boulware, Scott, Thomas and Pollard. Even on offense we don't have guys like Jamal Lewis, Boldin and Rice anymore.

Also, there's a big difference between players who get in trouble and ones who play with swagger. When I'm talking about swagger I'm not talking about Alex Lewis, who btw is a late 4th round pick, in a draft class of 11 players.

I really don't want choirboys or trouble makers, I want studs who will go ball out on the field. I think that's why some people are mad, because we missed golden opportunities to address that. We passed on guys like Ramsey, Jack, Spence and even Tunsil, players who would bring that swagger not to mention excellent play, for Stanley, Correa and Kaufusi, safe, high character picks.

Ramsey was gone, Jack would bring swagger to the training room, Spence brings swagger to the rehab clinic and Tunsil brings swagger to the party while his friend jumps out the window....

Watch the game tape (not just highlights) - Stanley > Tunsil, Correa > Spence.

I don't care about swagger, I care about play on the field and winning.

This might be the post of the year...

[usmccharles]

4 minutes ago, J.O.14 said:

Life of an aging running back...

I don't think it was that, he was the poster child of DV.  He was one of the most productive backs for 4 years averaging about 1700 all purpose yards then had one down year.  It was clear he got black balled...

[J.O.14]

  17 hours ago, Crusader said:

I though Bolden wanted the Ravens to honor the current deal and when Bolden stood up and said no ..............HE GONE..

PREACH, Crusader!!! Q don't play that

Ravens don't play that either....

[GENE2407]

  15 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

  15 hours ago, ravefan52 said:

I do think this team has lost a ton of its swagger and pretty soon there will be none left. In a couple years SSS, Suggs, Weddle and Dumervil will all be gone, with Yanda not far behind. Those guys that brought that swagger, confidence and meanness will be gone and there are no young players to take their spots.

Our defense, in particular, has pretty much lost all of its swagger and identity. We don't have any defenders who strike fear into opponents. Long gone are the days of Lewis, Reed, Ngata, Suggs, Boulware, Scott, Thomas and Pollard. Even on offense we don't have guys like Jamal Lewis, Boldin and Rice anymore.

Also, there's a big difference between players who get in trouble and ones who play with swagger. When I'm talking about swagger I'm not talking about Alex Lewis, who btw is a late 4th round pick, in a draft class of 11 players.

I really don't want choirboys or trouble makers, I want studs who will go ball out on the field. I think that's why some people are mad, because we missed golden opportunities to address that. We passed on guys like Ramsey, Jack, Spence and even Tunsil, players who would bring that swagger not to mention excellent play, for Stanley, Correa and Kaufusi, safe, high character picks.

Ramsey was gone, Jack would bring swagger to the training room, Spence brings swagger to the rehab clinic and Tunsil brings swagger to the party while his friend jumps out the window....

Watch the game tape (not just highlights) - Stanley > Tunsil, Correa > Spence.

I don't care about swagger, I care about play on the field and winning.

This might be the post of the year...

We'll see. Same thing was said about Warren Sapp and Randy Moss (both first ballot hall of famers) as they were bypassed for clean players like Mike Mamula and Greg Ellis. You can't substitute for pure talent no matter how "try hard" the player is. But forget about Tunsil and Spence, we had a real shot at Ramsey and Jack........both greater talents, "clean" players and real need positions.

[whobilly]

  17 hours ago, Crusader said:

I though Bolden wanted the Ravens to honor the current deal and when Bolden stood up and said no ..............HE GONE..

Yup, and look where it got him...

Boldin's not dumb. He knows the business of the NFL. The guys that want to "play out their deal" typically want to do so because they know a better deal ain't coming.

I'd still want to pick up Q for the right price. WINNER

[rmcjacket23]

23 minutes ago, whobilly said:

I'd still want to pick up Q for the right price. WINNER

I don't even see what role he would have in this offense. All he would be doing is taking away playing time from the young players that need it.

 

[usmccharles]

27 minutes ago, whobilly said:

I'd still want to pick up Q for the right price. WINNER

 

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I don't even see what role he would have in this offense. All he would be doing is taking away playing time from the young players that need it.

 

I have always loved Q and im not even a big Aiken fan, but im pretty sure Aiken can do the same thing as Q at this point in his career.  I see people taking this completely wrong....

[Hogchoker]

Really childish article... People call the roster a bunch of choirboys, so this clown starts listing personal and legal problems as if they're bragging rights. If you want to talk about the true "narrative," its that we have a roster made up of [soft guys] like Monroe, and the Blundertwins: Webb, and Jimmy Smith, who crumble at the first sign of adversity, can't hit worth a damn, and treat the IR like a player lounge. This team is largely gutless, whether they behave on the weekends or not.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Moderator 3
Slur removed

[ryananth]

18 hours ago, WNC-Raven said:

Yeah Q don't play that. Maybe you missed the camera shot of Boldin and Torrey sitting next each other on the bench looking miserable last year? I loved having Anquan as a Raven but he and Torrey obviously are not happy with their new team and they both were fan favorites in Baltimore. Q don't play that! Too funny. You should have said Q don't play. As in play football.

Nothing wrong with either of them getting what another team would pay. Team loyalty in pro sports doesn't exist. For every guy who's left the Ravens to make more money there are many more who were waived with contract years remaining. There weren't a lot of happy Ravens last year when we went 5-11 either.

[ryananth]

18 hours ago, WNC-Raven said:

Yeah Q don't play that. Maybe you missed the camera shot of Boldin and Torrey sitting next each other on the bench looking miserable last year? I loved having Anquan as a Raven but he and Torrey obviously are not happy with their new team and they both were fan favorites in Baltimore. Q don't play that! Too funny. You should have said Q don't play. As in play football.

BTW, Q has been gone for three years and in those three years he's averaged 79-1,010-5. Not bad for a player that as you say doesn't play football. I knew it was the right thing to let all of the recent free agents go who got deals we couldn't/shouldn't match but let's not badmouth them for taking more lucrative deals. Let's just thank them for their contribution and move on. The good news is if they are getting better deals to leave it means that they performed well for us while they were here.

 

[eze17]

Really childish article... People call the roster a bunch of choirboys, so this clown starts listing personal and legal problems as if they're bragging rights. If you want to talk about the true "narrative," its that we have a roster made up of [soft guys] like Monroe, and the Blundertwins: Webb, and Jimmy Smith, who crumble at the first sign of adversity, can't hit worth a damn, and treat the IR like a player lounge. This team is largely gutless, whether they behave on the weekends or not.

Did you even watch any of the games last year? We were having a bad, losing year,and guess what? I saw a group of men who went out there every Sunday and played their hearts out. Wow, that really shows how our roster is made up of a bunch of "soft" guys...I've seen teams just up and quit on a losing season, but I sure didn't see that with this team. And your naming players with injuries, not guys who lack heart. Guess you didn't like Jimmy Smith when he was making great plays during our SB run a few years ago?

Please wander back to your Redskins site...

[Frank G]

Dear Eisenberg,

I don't mean to offend you in any way - But your articles are the worst... A few come to mind where you just don't make sense, or appear to be heavily biased towards Ozzie and the Ravens. The fans have the right to be biased, you don't, you should be professional about it.

Example: One you are saying "Ravens do a great job of not jumping into free agency early", then the next day after the sign someone early "This was classic Ozzie making a great move!" When is the last time you wrote something that remotely questioned what the Ravens were doing?

Lastly, instead of praising everything the Ravens do, how about you start helping the fans out a bit by asking the tough questions? Those questions that we can't ask, because we are not in your spot.

Thanks,

Frank

[usmccharles]

23 hours ago, Hogchoker said:

Really childish article... People call the roster a bunch of choirboys, so this clown starts listing personal and legal problems as if they're bragging rights. If you want to talk about the true "narrative," its that we have a roster made up of [soft guys] like Monroe, and the Blundertwins: Webb, and Jimmy Smith, who crumble at the first sign of adversity, can't hit worth a damn, and treat the IR like a player lounge. This team is largely gutless, whether they behave on the weekends or not.

Apparently you didn't watch a 5 win team come within a TD of 9 out of 11 losses last year when we were clearly outmatched.  Yea, those gutless players...how dare they.  Just because someone gets injured does not make them soft.  I bet your one of those "I want my cake and eat to kind of guys". 

[rmcjacket23]

9 minutes ago, Frank G said:

Dear Eisenberg,

I don't mean to offend you in any way - But your articles are the worst... A few come to mind where you just don't make sense, or appear to be heavily biased towards Ozzie and the Ravens. The fans have the right to be biased, you don't, you should be professional about it.

Example: One you are saying "Ravens do a great job of not jumping into free agency early", then the next day after the sign someone early "This was classic Ozzie making a great move!" When is the last time you wrote something that remotely questioned what the Ravens were doing?

Lastly, instead of praising everything the Ravens do, how about you start helping the fans out a bit by asking the tough questions? Those questions that we can't ask, because we are not in your spot.

Thanks,

Frank

I mean, I somewhat agree, though I'd simply ask... you do understand that Eisenberg writes for the Baltimore Ravens website correct? He's not simply a writer for the Sun or some other Baltimore-based newspaper.

John's boss, one way or another, is Steve Bischotti, the owner of the Baltimore Ravens. John in many ways controls a lot of the content that is published on the teams official website, therefore reflects the team in every possible way.

So if John got in the business of questioning the organization in various matters, the following conversation would likely take place:

Steve: "John, you're fired."

End of conversation.

Papers like the Baltimore Sun or practically any other can ask and say anything they want for the most part, because they aren't owned by the owner of the team and aren't generally held accountable by the team for what they say.

So, in summary, if you're looking for somebody to ask the "tough" questions, I'd highly recommend you choose another reporting site. I'm all for bashing fans for their sometimes ridiculous opinions and biases towards the team because they aren't held to the same standard as the writers are, but it doesn't make a ton of sense to ask for writers on a team-owned, official website to not be biased. 

 

 

[usmccharles]

19 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean, I somewhat agree, though I'd simply ask... you do understand that Eisenberg writes for the Baltimore Ravens website correct? He's not simply a writer for the Sun or some other Baltimore-based newspaper.

John's boss, one way or another, is Steve Bischotti, the owner of the Baltimore Ravens. John in many ways controls a lot of the content that is published on the teams official website, therefore reflects the team in every possible way.

So if John got in the business of questioning the organization in various matters, the following conversation would likely take place:

Steve: "John, you're fired."

End of conversation.

Papers like the Baltimore Sun or practically any other can ask and say anything they want for the most part, because they aren't owned by the owner of the team and aren't generally held accountable by the team for what they say.

So, in summary, if you're looking for somebody to ask the "tough" questions, I'd highly recommend you choose another reporting site. I'm all for bashing fans for their sometimes ridiculous opinions and biases towards the team because they aren't held to the same standard as the writers are, but it doesn't make a ton of sense to ask for writers on a team-owned, official website to not be biased. 

 

 

Good god I laughed out loud during my maintenance meeting...

[Tenacious Faulker]

Moveing back in the 2nd round twice avoiding drafting Spence was the best example of this. He was a first round talent, a perfect Ravens pick (like Jernigan) and could've been the next Terrell Suggs for us. I'm not taking anything away from Correa. He went right where he was predicted to go. Spence dropped alomst a full round over a drug problem that was resolved with 20 clean tests in a row.. Also, look at the game tape for these two and see how much more Spence does. Correa might end up being good, but Spence is going to be great. Book it.

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, Tenacious Faulker said:

Moveing back in the 2nd round twice avoiding drafting Spence was the best example of this. He was a first round talent, a perfect Ravens pick (like Jernigan) and could've been the next Terrell Suggs for us. I'm not taking anything away from Correa. He went right where he was predicted to go. Spence dropped alomst a full round over a drug problem that was resolved with 20 clean tests in a row.. Also, look at the game tape for these two and see how much more Spence does. Correa might end up being good, but Spence is going to be great. Book it.

And what's the cost if I book it and you're wrong?

[ryananth]

1 hour ago, Tenacious Faulker said:

Moveing back in the 2nd round twice avoiding drafting Spence was the best example of this. He was a first round talent, a perfect Ravens pick (like Jernigan) and could've been the next Terrell Suggs for us. I'm not taking anything away from Correa. He went right where he was predicted to go. Spence dropped alomst a full round over a drug problem that was resolved with 20 clean tests in a row.. Also, look at the game tape for these two and see how much more Spence does. Correa might end up being good, but Spence is going to be great. Book it.

Amazing that every other team passed on this supposed first round talent but we're the ones who will rue the day we didn't draft him in the second round. A drug problem is hardly resolved by passing twenty consecutive drug tests. Dominating most of the time at Eastern Kentucky is hardly an indication of how will do in the NFL

[towens2921]

I see nothing wrong with projecting this ethos for the team: "We are going to build the best team we can with players we are confident are NOT going to get into trouble." If every team in the NFL did this, maybe some of the college kids would clean up their acts and some others would get out of the league altogether. But sadly, there is too much "Win at any cost." mentality in the league.

[J.O.14]

On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 8:06 AM, GENE2407 said:

We'll see. Same thing was said about Warren Sapp and Randy Moss (both first ballot hall of famers) as they were bypassed for clean players like Mike Mamula and Greg Ellis. You can't substitute for pure talent no matter how "try hard" the player is. But forget about Tunsil and Spence, we had a real shot at Ramsey and Jack........both greater talents, "clean" players and real need positions.

Jack was to much of a risk, and we didn't really have a shot at Ramsey....we tried to trade for him and we couldn't reach a deal.

[J.O.14]

On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 8:02 AM, usmccharles said:

I don't think it was that, he was the poster child of DV.  He was one of the most productive backs for 4 years averaging about 1700 all purpose yards then had one down year.  It was clear he got black balled...

Yeah he did get black balled, but look what Hardy has done, and the only reason he got a chance to play was because he is 27 and a productive pass rusher. Rice was 28 when this happened, going to be 29 when he had his next chance to play in the league. He was actually coming off two years in a row where production was dropping a little bit. In 2012 he still had a good year, but nothing like 09-11. I believe he was going to bounce back in 14, but I don't think he would have been the same ol Ray. In the league today, it's a lot easier to find production from a stable of RBs, and it's easier to find younger backs in later rounds who can produce as much as a 29 year old declining back with as much tread on the tires as Ray.

[usmccharles]

9 minutes ago, J.O.14 said:

Yeah he did get black balled, but look what Hardy has done, and the only reason he got a chance to play was because he is 27 and a productive pass rusher. Rice was 28 when this happened, going to be 29 when he had his next chance to play in the league. He was actually coming off two years in a row where production was dropping a little bit. In 2012 he still had a good year, but nothing like 09-11. I believe he was going to bounce back in 14, but I don't think he would have been the same ol Ray. In the league today, it's a lot easier to find production from a stable of RBs, and it's easier to find younger backs in later rounds who can produce as much as a 29 year old declining back with as much tread on the tires as Ray.

Yea 12' was a down year but compared to the rest of the league I still think he was a top guy hands down, don't feel like going back to look at stats at the moment.  I agree it just makes more sense to have a couple of good RBs than one for a couple of reasons: 1) if your workhorse RB goes down, then your offense is sure to take a huge hit 2) cheaper for a committee of backs 3) more options for the offense. 

But I really do believe its all about the video.  If Hardy would of had a video released I think it would have been different.  Sad though, I really though he was going to come back with vengeance.

[fluffy201]

Moveing back in the 2nd round twice avoiding drafting Spence was the best example of this. He was a first round talent, a perfect Ravens pick (like Jernigan) and could've been the next Terrell Suggs for us. I'm not taking anything away from Correa. He went right where he was predicted to go. Spence dropped alomst a full round over a drug problem that was resolved with 20 clean tests in a row.. Also, look at the game tape for these two and see how much more Spence does. Correa might end up being good, but Spence is going to be great. Book it.

Yea, but if Spence was that highly regarded, than he would not have fell to the second round pick 8 in the draft, other players had problems like Tunsil and Ndemichi (spelling), but they were taken in the first. Maybe teams just didn't feel his talent matched up to his off the field problems. Also Spence was not considered a 3 down lineman. Perhaps a rushing specialist at best and we already have that in doom. So I guess we'll see who is right and who is wrong come mid season.

[letitgosometimes]

John: The Ravens need defensive backs like no tomorrow. Yet, wisdom in the front office fails to see the picture. The Ravens will be 9-7 or 8-8 with playoff hopes, but they could have made a run for the division with high quality DBs. No new thought, no new result. Maybe in 2018, the Ravens pull it together for a deep run in the playoffs. The first eight games will bring promise to the Ravens. The second eight will bring the reality of not having solid DBs.