[News] Eisenberg: Be Careful with the 'Choirboy' Narrative

[ellicottraven]

Well I am really curious now. Where in the world are all the videos of our draft picks being introduced to the fans? Only Stanley's been introduced and Young showed up on flock day. But, nobody else? I thought Kaufusi was aleady here on the final day of the draft? Why no videos? I thought we had a big staff of PR and BR.com people on board. Every other team in the NFL has extensive footage on all of their draft picks, but we are lacking sorely in that department. It's just not now but has been the case for a long time. We lag behind the rest of the NFL in website content for sure.

[Crusader]

  2 hours ago, ravens4life86 said:

Look I like the draft...but the people are right in "Choir boy" notion

Harbs kicked Boldin,Pollard, and a bunch of Alpha males off the team..
And every draft since Harbaugh been around... "Have put more emphasis on the "character" aspect of players then just being Gamechangers.

When Ozzie drafted by himself he got Ray,Ed,Ja.Lewis,McAlister, Suggs,Ngata,Etc etc
Not "YES MEN" Alpha Men Gamechangers

And Now..in the Draft proccess...If Von Miller is Sitting there possibly (Noah Spence) who may have a little drug baggage..
They would rather take a Paul Kruger developmental guys like Correa,Koufusi..
Who wont be 2nd contract cornerstone players..because THEY ARE CHOIR BOY Yes Men.

Thats the Harbaugh oroblem..taking lesser talent, for yes men..and character.

Character doesnt win Wins...
You know what does..Von Miller,

You saying boldin was a thug, lacked character, or something to that nature? He's gone due to $, nothing more in my opinion

I though Bolden wanted the Ravens to honor the current deal and when Bolden stood up and said no ..............HE GONE..

[WNC-Raven]

34 minutes ago, ravens4life86 said:

@WNC-Raven,
While I agree with your premise about wanting to increase value of team.. and fan base....
But the best and main way to do that is WIN RINGS.
Its no mistake, that a Teams value goes up after SB Wins and its Fans increase.

So..the whole needing Choir Boys..to improve Team value is a farce.

The Proof is in Jerry Jones. That guy is the Greatest Promotor outside Vince McMahon. And he fills hus team with questionable characters aslong as they are ALL PROs...and they are always tops in team Value..

So Character has nothing to do team value...
Heres what does..
Location..Thats why Kronke moved from St Louis to LA.. Increased value by like 500mil
Stadium.. if you have a Newer Stadium, or a MEGAPLEX like Jerry Jones..that holds Boxing,WWE,Concerts etc..more value..
3rd..Storied Franchise..Winning Tradition...SB RINGS..

Thats what creates Team Value.. not players character
You can have 53 buttholes and have richest NFL Team

Character is secondary

I see where your coming from. It often seems like rings drive a fan base but other than the bandwagon fans, the facts just don't support it. I'm not going to list all team values across the league but here are a few examples. The most valuable team, the Cowboys havent won a SB in 20 years. For the #3 the Redskins it's been 24. #5 San Fran has been 21 years. #6 Jets have not won a SB in 47 years! Texans at #7, Bears at #8, Eagles at #9 and Packers at #10. You get the picture. The only top 10 team in value that has recently won SB's are the Patriots and Giants.

I fully agree with your comment about location. I would say location and market size is the biggest reason for a team value.

Nice, new stadiums help but the majority of fans watch on TV so I dont know how much that really matters other than keeping the team happy.

Storied franchise and history do play a part but if that really mattered why would baltimore be worth more than the steelers, colts, ect..

[ryananth]

11 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

Well I am really curious now. Where in the world are all the videos of our draft picks being introduced to the fans? Only Stanley's been introduced and Young showed up on flock day. But, nobody else? I thought Kaufusi was aleady here on the final day of the draft? Why no videos? I thought we had a big staff of PR and BR.com people on board. Every other team in the NFL has extensive footage on all of their draft picks, but we are lacking sorely in that department. It's just not now but has been the case for a long time. We lag behind the rest of the NFL in website content for sure.

I suspect they are probably waiting until this weekend's rookie camp to introduce everyone. Pretty unfair to expect the draftees to be here right away and then quickly send them away to pack and then expect them come right back next weekend. Saying we lag behind the rest of the nfl in content is untrue and a poor blanket statement. Also stating that every other NFL has extensive footage on all their draft picks and we don't is also a farce. We have content on our site right now of all the picks.

[ryananth]

15 minutes ago, Crusader said:

I though Bolden wanted the Ravens to honor the current deal and when Bolden stood up and said no ..............HE GONE..

PREACH, Crusader!!! Q don't play that

[WNC-Raven]

Just now, ryananth said:

PREACH, Crusader!!! Q don't play that

Yeah Q don't play that. Maybe you missed the camera shot of Boldin and Torrey sitting next each other on the bench looking miserable last year? I loved having Anquan as a Raven but he and Torrey obviously are not happy with their new team and they both were fan favorites in Baltimore. Q don't play that! Too funny. You should have said Q don't play. As in play football.

[ravensnj]

6 hours ago, ravens4life86 said:

Look I like the draft...but the people are right in "Choir boy" notion

Harbs kicked Boldin,Pollard, and a bunch of Alpha males off the team..
And every draft since Harbaugh been around... "Have put more emphasis on the "character" aspect of players then just being Gamechangers.

When Ozzie drafted by himself he got Ray,Ed,Ja.Lewis,McAlister, Suggs,Ngata,Etc etc
Not "YES MEN" Alpha Men Gamechangers

And Now..in the Draft proccess...If Von Miller is Sitting there possibly (Noah Spence) who may have a little drug baggage..
They would rather take a Paul Kruger developmental guys like Correa,Koufusi..
Who wont be 2nd contract cornerstone players..because THEY ARE CHOIR BOY Yes Men.

Thats the Harbaugh oroblem..taking lesser talent, for yes men..and character.

Character doesnt win Wins...
You know what does..Von Miller,

Boldin was the 2015 Walter Payton man of the year. Boldin established the Anquan Boldin (Q81) Foundation in 2004 with the mission to expand the educational and life opportunities of underprivileged children. Yes, he definitely is an Alpha male, but what pro player is not? You better be an Alpha male or say hello to the CFL.
I believe we tried to go young after the Super Bowl and not fall into the elder player/ overpaid issue we had after the 2000 season. Whereas, we failed again to get it right, and Boldin's loss was a travesty which cost us dearly.

Edited May 3, 2016 by ravensnj

[ellicottraven]

14 minutes ago, ryananth said:

I suspect they are probably waiting until this weekend's rookie camp to introduce everyone. Pretty unfair to expect the draftees to be here right away and then quickly send them away to pack and then expect them come right back next weekend. Saying we lag behind the rest of the nfl in content is untrue and a poor blanket statement. Also stating that every other NFL has extensive footage on all their draft picks and we don't is also a farce. We have content on our site right now of all the picks.

I'll concede the first of your two points. It does make sense for them to have all the rookies come in for camp (didn't realize it was this soon). However, with regard to content on other sites, I disagree with you and it surely isn't a farce.

[rmcjacket23]

34 minutes ago, Crusader said:

I though Bolden wanted the Ravens to honor the current deal and when Bolden stood up and said no ..............HE GONE..

Yup, and look where it got him...

Boldin's not dumb. He knows the business of the NFL. The guys that want to "play out their deal" typically want to do so because they know a better deal ain't coming.

[eze17]

Lets see...we gave Will Hill a 2nd chance and he blew it. We gave asa Jackson a 2nd chance and he blew it. We gave Nick Boyle a 2nd chance, and he's suspended 10 games....and you wonder why this team isn't busting down the door to draft players like Tunsil and Spence? How many times do you have to hear " I won't do it again" before you say enough, lets just get some guys we don't have to babysit every time they go out to a club? So don't say the Raven's won't give guys chances...their probably just tired of hearing B.S.

As for drafting tough players, I consider almost anybody who plays football to have some kind of tough mentality and a natural competiveness, and probably most have a mean streak to boot. What, are we only supposed to draft dudes with criminal histories now? Guys who cuss out their head coaches? People who are arrogant Son of a gun's? For that matter, who knows what some of these guys we drafted are truely like. I'm sure they said everything they could to seem like nice guys, but who knows for certain? Ray Rice seemed like a boy scout at the time, but obviously had issues outside football. Michael Mccrary is one of the nicest guys you could meet, but he'd rip somebody's head off during a game if he deemed it necessary.We don't really know what kind of attitude these guys will bring. All I care about is they bring a desire to play their best, and a desire to win football games.

[harfordravenfan]

45 minutes ago, Crusader said:

I though Bolden wanted the Ravens to honor the current deal and when Bolden stood up and said no ..............HE GONE..

Exactly, and although I wanted to keep him, it was a fo decision and had nothing to do with him not being a choir boy, alpha male, or anything else IMO

[BmoreB]

  33 minutes ago, ryananth said:

PREACH, Crusader!!! Q don't play that

Yeah Q don't play that. Maybe you missed the camera shot of Boldin and Torrey sitting next each other on the bench looking miserable last year? I loved having Anquan as a Raven but he and Torrey obviously are not happy with their new team and they both were fan favorites in Baltimore. Q don't play that! Too funny. You should have said Q don't play. As in play football.

that was awesome lol

[EddiOK]

3 hours ago, eze17 said:

Lets see...we gave Will Hill a 2nd chance and he blew it. We gave asa Jackson a 2nd chance and he blew it. We gave Nick Boyle a 2nd chance, and he's suspended 10 games....and you wonder why this team isn't busting down the door to draft players like Tunsil and Spence? How many times do you have to hear " I won't do it again" before you say enough, lets just get some guys we don't have to babysit every time they go out to a club? So don't say the Raven's won't give guys chances...their probably just tired of hearing B.S.

As for drafting tough players, I consider almost anybody who plays football to have some kind of tough mentality and a natural competiveness, and probably most have a mean streak to boot. What, are we only supposed to draft dudes with criminal histories now? Guys who cuss out their head coaches? People who are arrogant Son of a gun's? For that matter, who knows what some of these guys we drafted are truely like. I'm sure they said everything they could to seem like nice guys, but who knows for certain? Ray Rice seemed like a boy scout at the time, but obviously had issues outside football. Michael Mccrary is one of the nicest guys you could meet, but he'd rip somebody's head off during a game if he deemed it necessary.We don't really know what kind of attitude these guys will bring. All I care about is they bring a desire to play their best, and a desire to win football games.

Well said.

[TheConquerorWorm]

yeah,they give up an all pro cause he smokec alttle herb WHEN YOUNG,WHEN YOUNG,WHEN YOUNG,only to grab a guy thats an rear in the back of the draft.they contridict themselves on many levels,you think MARVIN LEWIS would of passed on a perrenial pro bowler like TUNSIL? the FINS hit the LOTTO on that pick. remember,nice guys do finnish last.

And in 13 years, how many play-off wins do the Bengals and Marvin Lewis have?

ZERO! Not 1 single win in the play-offs in 13 years.....So, nice guys finish what?

[WNC-Raven]

1 minute ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

And in 13 years, how many play-off wins do the Bengals and Marvin Lewis have?

ZERO! Not 1 single win in the play-offs in 13 years.....So, nice guys finish what?

Even better, it was exactly the kind of players some would like that cost them their first playoff win in who knows how long. Pacman and Burflict handed that game to the Steelers. Why do some have issues with cause and effect?

[TheConquerorWorm]

3 hours ago, ravens4life86 said:

Look I like the draft...but the people are right in "Choir boy" notion

Harbs kicked Boldin,Pollard, and a bunch of Alpha males off the team..
And every draft since Harbaugh been around... "Have put more emphasis on the "character" aspect of players then just being Gamechangers.

When Ozzie drafted by himself he got Ray,Ed,Ja.Lewis,McAlister, Suggs,Ngata,Etc etc
Not "YES MEN" Alpha Men Gamechangers

And Now..in the Draft proccess...If Von Miller is Sitting there possibly (Noah Spence) who may have a little drug baggage..
They would rather take a Paul Kruger developmental guys like Correa,Koufusi..
Who wont be 2nd contract cornerstone players..because THEY ARE CHOIR BOY Yes Men.

Thats the Harbaugh oroblem..taking lesser talent, for yes men..and character.

Character doesnt win Wins...
You know what does..Von Miller,

Lol.....you mean the "Alpha Dog" Pollard that's been cut from 4 teams and has been on the street for the last 2 years because he can't play as good as he runs his mouth?

Spence - "a little drug baggage". Multiple failed drug tests for 2 years, banned from the Big 10. Entered an Intense Addiction Rehab and when he got out - he went right back to partying and got arrested. That's not a little of anything or "character issues".

Baaaaaa!!!! Baaaaaa!

Edited May 3, 2016 by TheConquerorWorm

[she_lovesBirds]

"Harbs got rid of a couple thugs; pollard and Q" seriously?
First off neither of those guys are thugs but yeah like someone else mentioned Q was the Walter Payton man of the year so far from a thug. In case you need a reminder, he was offered a restructured deal and he declined so no one "got rid" of him.

Secondly Pollard could hit with serious conviction, but was a liability in coverage perhaps you should watch our superbowl tape as case in point. He was cut because we needed to go faster and younger same reason we let Ed Reed go. So enough with the crying get your senses right.

You all talk like Bisciotti isnt in the room when all these decisions are being made and they are just cluing him in at the end. Neither Harbs nor Oz nor anyone below Bisciotti has free reign, he owns the damn team for crying out loud. so who is telling who to do what? how do u know these marching orders arent from the very top?

and besides are u really clamoring for guys with questionable characters as first or second round picks? must I remind you of a certain Sergio Kindle (first round pick that is) that basically never amounted to anything because of character issues?

mic drop*

[ravefan52]

I do think this team has lost a ton of its swagger and pretty soon there will be none left. In a couple years SSS, Suggs, Weddle and Dumervil will all be gone, with Yanda not far behind. Those guys that brought that swagger, confidence and meanness will be gone and there are no young players to take their spots.

Our defense, in particular, has pretty much lost all of its swagger and identity. We don't have any defenders who strike fear into opponents. Long gone are the days of Lewis, Reed, Ngata, Suggs, Boulware, Scott, Thomas and Pollard. Even on offense we don't have guys like Jamal Lewis, Boldin and Rice anymore.

Also, there's a big difference between players who get in trouble and ones who play with swagger. When I'm talking about swagger I'm not talking about Alex Lewis, who btw is a late 4th round pick, in a draft class of 11 players.

I really don't want choirboys or trouble makers, I want studs who will go ball out on the field. I think that's why some people are mad, because we missed golden opportunities to address that. We passed on guys like Ramsey, Jack, Spence and even Tunsil, players who would bring that swagger not to mention excellent play, for Stanley, Correa and Kaufusi, safe, high character picks.

[TheConquerorWorm]

I do think this team has lost a ton of its swagger and pretty soon there will be none left. In a couple years SSS, Suggs, Weddle and Dumervil will all be gone, with Yanda not far behind. Those guys that brought that swagger, confidence and meanness will be gone and there are no young players to take their spots.

Our defense, in particular, has pretty much lost all of its swagger and identity. We don't have any defenders who strike fear into opponents. Long gone are the days of Lewis, Reed, Ngata, Suggs, Boulware, Scott, Thomas and Pollard. Even on offense we don't have guys like Jamal Lewis, Boldin and Rice anymore.

Also, there's a big difference between players who get in trouble and ones who play with swagger. When I'm talking about swagger I'm not talking about Alex Lewis, who btw is a late 4th round pick, in a draft class of 11 players.

I really don't want choirboys or trouble makers, I want studs who will go ball out on the field. I think that's why some people are mad, because we missed golden opportunities to address that. We passed on guys like Ramsey, Jack, Spence and even Tunsil, players who would bring that swagger not to mention excellent play, for Stanley, Correa and Kaufusi, safe, high character picks.

Ramsey was gone, Jack would bring swagger to the training room, Spence brings swagger to the rehab clinic and Tunsil brings swagger to the party while his friend jumps out the window....

Watch the game tape (not just highlights) - Stanley > Tunsil, Correa > Spence.

I don't care about swagger, I care about play on the field and winning.

[Crusader]

  1 hour ago, ryananth said:

PREACH, Crusader!!! Q don't play that

Yeah Q don't play that. Maybe you missed the camera shot of Boldin and Torrey sitting next each other on the bench looking miserable last year? I loved having Anquan as a Raven but he and Torrey obviously are not happy with their new team and they both were fan favorites in Baltimore. Q don't play that! Too funny. You should have said Q don't play. As in play football.

Kind of like our 2 first rounder's and second round have been doing. One difference, Torrey and Boldin (13 Years) have the RING!

[eze17]

I do think this team has lost a ton of its swagger and pretty soon there will be none left. In a couple years SSS, Suggs, Weddle and Dumervil will all be gone, with Yanda not far behind. Those guys that brought that swagger, confidence and meanness will be gone and there are no young players to take their spots.

Our defense, in particular, has pretty much lost all of its swagger and identity. We don't have any defenders who strike fear into opponents. Long gone are the days of Lewis, Reed, Ngata, Suggs, Boulware, Scott, Thomas and Pollard. Even on offense we don't have guys like Jamal Lewis, Boldin and Rice anymore.

Also, there's a big difference between players who get in trouble and ones who play with swagger. When I'm talking about swagger I'm not talking about Alex Lewis, who btw is a late 4th round pick, in a draft class of 11 players.

I really don't want choirboys or trouble makers, I want studs who will go ball out on the field. I think that's why some people are mad, because we missed golden opportunities to address that. We passed on guys like Ramsey, Jack, Spence and even Tunsil, players who would bring that swagger not to mention excellent play, for Stanley, Correa and Kaufusi, safe, high character picks.

So you personally know that Ramsey,Jack Spence and Tunsil have swagger? Why? Cause they run their mouth? Just because they come across as loud doesn't mean they have any leadership skills or can motivate team mates the way Lewis/Reed/Suggs have done. Nobody knows how any of these guys will act. For that matter, how do you know that Stanley,Correa and Kaufusi, just because they are reguarded as high character guys, won't come in here breathing fire and giving the team a much needed shot of adrenalin? Sorry, we don't know any of this. It's only your speculation that you've based on hearing talking heads on TV or the internet claiming they know more than anyone else. I'll wait and see them play football before I make my decision.

[TheConquerorWorm]

  2 hours ago, WNC-Raven said:

  2 hours ago, ryananth said:

PREACH, Crusader!!! Q don't play that

Yeah Q don't play that. Maybe you missed the camera shot of Boldin and Torrey sitting next each other on the bench looking miserable last year? I loved having Anquan as a Raven but he and Torrey obviously are not happy with their new team and they both were fan favorites in Baltimore. Q don't play that! Too funny. You should have said Q don't play. As in play football.

Kind of like our 2 first rounder's and second round have been doing. One difference, Torrey and Boldin (13 Years) have the RING!

Big deal - Caylin Hauptmann & David Carr have TWO RINGS each! Maybe the Ravens should do as YOU SAY and cut Yanda & Flacco for those two Alpha Dogs!! lol

And our UNDRAFTED free agent had MORE catches, yards AND TDs than either of them (at a cost of $16 million dollars less).

[mearzunkies]

I dare any team to go up to the Ravens on game day and state that... LOL ESPECIALLY in the BANK!

[bioLarzen]

"Rice was deemed a civic treasure until he got in trouble."

... and afterwards, too. He never did anything slightly wrong since that incident.

Let's not forget that either.

[mearzunkies]

Well I am really curious now. Where in the world are all the videos of our draft picks being introduced to the fans? Only Stanley's been introduced and Young showed up on flock day. But, nobody else? I thought Kaufusi was aleady here on the final day of the draft? Why no videos? I thought we had a big staff of PR and BR.com people on board. Every other team in the NFL has extensive footage on all of their draft picks, but we are lacking sorely in that department. It's just not now but has been the case for a long time. We lag behind the rest of the NFL in website content for sure.

LOL the BR site has won awards... The others ehhh Not so much...

[harfordravenfan]

11 minutes ago, bioLarzen said:

"Rice was deemed a civic treasure until he got in trouble."

... and afterwards, too. He never did anything slightly wrong since that incident.

Let's not forget that either.

Agreed, truly sad no team gave him a second chance while Hardy and others do

[mendii]

Not sure how I feel about reveling in the assault charge one of our recent draft picks has received.

[Crusader]

Not sure how I feel about reveling in the assault charge one of our recent draft picks has received.

I don't think you will have to worry about him. If you read his statements you feel his sorry for his family and embarrassment not to for get he knows how close he came to killing him.......as long as he don't drink alcohol.

[Crusader]

  6 hours ago, Crusader said:

  7 hours ago, WNC-Raven said:

  8 hours ago, ryananth said:

PREACH, Crusader!!! Q don't play that

Yeah Q don't play that. Maybe you missed the camera shot of Boldin and Torrey sitting next each other on the bench looking miserable last year? I loved having Anquan as a Raven but he and Torrey obviously are not happy with their new team and they both were fan favorites in Baltimore. Q don't play that! Too funny. You should have said Q don't play. As in play football.

Kind of like our 2 first rounder's and second round have been doing. One difference, Torrey and Boldin (13 Years) have the RING!

Big deal - Caylin Hauptmann & David Carr have TWO RINGS each! Maybe the Ravens should do as YOU SAY and cut Yanda & Flacco for those two Alpha Dogs!! lol

And our UNDRAFTED free agent had MORE catches, yards AND TDs than either of them (at a cost of $16 million dollars less).

If your going to critizem you really need to follow the conversation more closely because that don't make any sense.

[J.O.14]

  12 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

"Rice was deemed a civic treasure until he got in trouble."

... and afterwards, too. He never did anything slightly wrong since that incident.

Let's not forget that either.

Agreed, truly sad no team gave him a second chance while Hardy and others do

Life of an aging running back...