[News] Late For Work 5/2: You're Gonna Like Ravens' Draft Grades

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, Fastynart said:

A good article whether you agree or not. The only baloney piece was about Ray Rice impacting this draft. No one could have foreseen what happened with Ray Rice. He was a solid citizen, gave it his all on the field and, up until "the incident", was a model citizen. He makes one (albeit huge) mistake, and everyone dumps on him. If you paid attention to the video, you would see his girlfriend attacking him. The chicken NJ authorities deemed it unworthy of prosecution so why should the NFL be the enforcers? Purely a PR move.

Well, its not so much that everybody is dumping on him, but a business that takes such a massive PR hit like this one did can't afford to be "lenient" in its evaluation of players with off-field concerns. 

Its one thing that have a player like Ray who had shown no signs of being that "type" of guy have an incident, but its an entirely different thing to hire somebody who you knew had a history of off-field issues and then have that continue in their career.

The NFL are the enforcers because, like most employers, they hold their employees to a higher standard than just the law. The law is a MINIMUM standard what is right/wrong in society, not the maximum standard. Its not sufficient to just say "the law said I did nothing wrong, so don't punish me".

[bioLarzen]

I've wrote it elswhere: for thos who were disappointed by the Stanley pick, a fun fact to consider: when the Titans were on the clock, Tunsil was still on the board - still they opted for Conklin - which means that they would have surely not pick Tunsil at #1 (as there seems to be no logic that they didn't pick him at #8 but would have do so at #1). Since there was only one OT - Stanley - off the board when the Titans picked, it's logical to assume they would have picekd Stanley or Conklin at #1. And, as basically no serious draft analysis put Conklin ahead of Stanley, it's only fair to assume that there's a good chance that if the Titans kept the #1 pick, they would have picked Stanley.

Which means there's a good chance we picked a potential 1/1 pick in Stanley...

[stixfix69]

IMO, I see Matt Judon, Willie Henry, and Dixon having a impact aside from the top 3 picks....I also think we collected some solid UDFA players, over-all i feel we picked, players with high octane motors...JMO....

[rmcjacket23]

7 hours ago, fusuymada said:

The Ravens got an A the year we drafted Kindle and Cody and last year Perriman got us an A as well and how did that turn out. In reality, it is a C- or a D at best. We are so scared of players that made mistakes in college that we drafted boy scouts and altar boys. Sorry, Football is a violent sport and sometimes those guys can straighten out and sometimes they get in more trouble, but we just can't keep avoiding everybody because of college mistakes. Terrell Suggs, Ray Lewis, Jamal Lewis, Ray Rice just to name a few were crucial in either one or both of the super bowls and based on our logic of drafting now, none of them would be on the Ravens. There are quite a bit more and Ozzie used to seek these guys out, now Bisciotti has neutered him and he has to take the squeaky clean guys who really are not the playmakers. The Ravens are a football team, not a personnel company and they can't be run the same way, Steve. We had a lousy draft and we ran away from the best players.

Obviously, couple of problems with this line of thinking.

1. The players you listed didn't have those concerns until they started playing in the league. Its one thing to have a player with no history of off-field concerns have an incident during their career. Its an entirely different thing to hire somebody who you already know comes with off-field concerns and that continues in their career.

The former is basically "unexpected". Its the equivalent of a business hiring somebody with no history of fraud who then defrauds them. 

The latter is partially "expected". Its the equivalent of a business hiring somebody who has already knowingly committed fraud, and then defrauds that company again. This makes the business look exponentially worse, because of the "should have known" theory.

2. The Ravens are a business first, football team second. They choose personnel based on that premise, not necessarily how they are on the football field. 

3. You have no idea who the best players are, so nothing can be said factually about that.

 

[ravenscavecreek]

The Ravens got an A the year we drafted Kindle and Cody and last year Perriman got us an A as well and how did that turn out. In reality, it is a C- or a D at best. We are so scared of players that made mistakes in college that we drafted boy scouts and altar boys. Sorry, Football is a violent sport and sometimes those guys can straighten out and sometimes they get in more trouble, but we just can't keep avoiding everybody because of college mistakes. Terrell Suggs, Ray Lewis, Jamal Lewis, Ray Rice just to name a few were crucial in either one or both of the super bowls and based on our logic of drafting now, none of them would be on the Ravens. There are quite a bit more and Ozzie used to seek these guys out, now Bisciotti has neutered him and he has to take the squeaky clean guys who really are not the playmakers. The Ravens are a football team, not a personnel company and they can't be run the same way, Steve. We had a lousy draft and we ran away from the best players.

U need to get a job as a GM in the NFL. Let us know which NFL team hires you.

[ravenscavecreek]

Very solid draft as we get great depth and a few potential starters. My only knock on the draft, which many have already stated is that we should not have passed up on Spence after the trade back. Correa is a high potential player with burst, a relentless motor and great work ethic, but he is not as good against the run as Spence and he isn't as natural of a pass rusher either.

After a few years we will tell, but Spence is far more refined and was extremely successful on the left side at Ohio State, which faces far better competition in the Big 10 then Boise State.

U need to do your homework. Spence was labeled a one trick pony (pass rusher) by all the experts and is considered terrible against the run. Correa is an all around player. Nuff said.

[bioLarzen]

Even if we assume he's right, I would really love to hear Mr. Hensley's explanation of what's wrong with goiung "safe". I bet he would have liked us to pick Jack - but what would his opinion be if Jack went down in his sophomore season never to really recover - a possibility well within the range of reality... Or what if we chose Tunsil over Stanley, to get an OT who's injured just as often as Monroe, while Stanley keeps protecting Mariota's blind side for seasons uninterrupted? Would Mr. Hensley write "well, I still think it was worth going bold with the draft"?

Edited May 2, 2016 by bioLarzen

[RRRRRavens]

How this draft will contribute to the Raven’s success as a team as measured in win-loss percentages for this and future years only time will tell. There seem to be strong opinions on either side. But one thing seems very clear to me. If the draft, and other acquisitions, did not seem exciting it should produce exciting play on the field this year. Here’s my logic.

On the offense side of the ball we should be set up for an exciting time. We’ve shored up our O-line, especially at LT, which we have been trying to do since Joe F arrived in 2008. This should give our two excellent passing QBs, JF or RM, more time to pass. Added to that is our improvement in targets for Joe or Ryan (acquired Wallace and Moore, SSS and Perriman coming off IR, drafting running back Dixon known for his receptions) all of whom show promise for getting open – the biggest problem for our receivers in recent years.

On the defense side life will be exciting too, both good and bad. We still lack an ILB able to cover opponents TEs and our CB situation is shaky. That is the bad side but you have to admit it does make it exciting in a negative sort of way. For positive excitement on defense we have drafted three pass rushers noted for their high-speed motors. Watching them chase hapless opposition QBs running for their football life will be fun. We put Webby back as safety helping in the ball-hawking department. Then we signed a veteran all-pro safety to pull it all together. Whether it works or not we’ll just have to wait and see. But you won’t be going to get a beer from the fridge when the defense is on the field.

I can’t predict where we’ll end up in the standings this year but I think I can predict the journey will be fun to watch. My ego doesn’t rise or fall with the success of the Ravens each year as I think it does with some fans. I watch them for the drama and this year is shaping up to be one of their more exciting years. Go RAVENS!!!

[stixfix69]

it's not about a player talent, it's about finding players who can fit in our system....Players come and go, but the system we have had over the years have stayed the same, so you look for players who can be disciplined, and responsible within the system.....Have to wait and see this draft class play in pre-season, but i am very optimistic last years draft class will step it up, considering due to injury many were forced in to a lot of PT....

[CLWG]

After cooling down a bit, I am going to reserve judgment until training camp. The more I view film on our picks the less critical I am of these picks. I still say they got burnt by not picking Spence though.

[Mobtown]

Heard someone on the radio say "man these ravens are going to church to get players".. I laughed but he's on point. I understand character issues, but it might compromise production and toughness that is necessary in the AFC North. These moves have John Harbaugh's stamp all over it.

why does it have to be either or? Can good football players only come with histories of bad decisions?

[bioLarzen]

2 hours ago, YankeeRaven said:

To be fair the Ravens did try to trade up and get Ramsey, you can't blame them you gotta blame the Cowboys their asking price was too high, but it was a little surprising they passed on Noah Spence.

The surprising fact is that the Cowboys asked the fair price: for their #4 pick (1800 TVC points) they asked our #6 plus our #40 (1600 + 240=1840) TVC (well, maybe the 'Boys' 2017 5th rounder (they didn't have a 5th rounder this year) with the #4 pick would have made the perfect deal, putting the value of their side of the deal to somewhere around 1830 TVC points). What Ozzie offered was #6 + #104 which gives a total value of 1686 - well less than the value of the #4 pick. So, in this case the Cowboys were right, I guess Ozzie just tried to make a win-win bargain (assuming the Cowboys would have probably still be able to pick up Elliott at #6 and get a free 4th rounder, while we would have got Ramsey) which Jerry turned down for fear they could still end up losing Elliott which they admittedly wanted to avoid at all cost.

Edited May 2, 2016 by bioLarzen

[bioLarzen]

It was just plain bizzarre to see that the place where the Ravens got the most hatred and heat during the draft was not a fottball fan bar in downtown Pittsburgh - but the forum of the Baltimore Ravens website... Guys whose user name I've never ever seen here came crawling out of the woodwork and held a hate party rarely seen...

[mc_red23]

48 minutes ago, fusuymada said:

The Ravens got an A the year we drafted Kindle and Cody and last year Perriman got us an A as well and how did that turn out. In reality, it is a C- or a D at best. We are so scared of players that made mistakes in college that we drafted boy scouts and altar boys. Sorry, Football is a violent sport and sometimes those guys can straighten out and sometimes they get in more trouble, but we just can't keep avoiding everybody because of college mistakes. Terrell Suggs, Ray Lewis, Jamal Lewis, Ray Rice just to name a few were crucial in either one or both of the super bowls and based on our logic of drafting now, none of them would be on the Ravens. There are quite a bit more and Ozzie used to seek these guys out, now Bisciotti has neutered him and he has to take the squeaky clean guys who really are not the playmakers. The Ravens are a football team, not a personnel company and they can't be run the same way, Steve. We had a lousy draft and we ran away from the best players.

In reality we don't know anything yet. You're questioning the grades and the timing of them from the pundits yet you come up with your own. Makes sense 

[bioLarzen]

12 minutes ago, CLWG said:

After cooling down a bit, I am going to reserve judgment until training camp. The more I view film on our picks the less critical I am of these picks. I still say they got burnt by not picking Spence though.

I think we should put off judgement at least until the end of the season. Just take the example of Carl Davis: after the draft he was one of the guys who were rarely talked about. A great pre-season and start to the season made him look like the steal of the draft. Then he "disappeared", so at the end of the season, once again, nobody was talking about him...

Rookies can be like that. ZaDarius Smith had a great rookie season - it doesn't automatically mean he won't have the sophomore slump (altough fingers crossed he won't)... Maxx Williams had an OK rookie season, but not a great one (as expected of rookie TE's) - it doesn't mean he won't go on to become Todd Heap v2.0...

 

The best is to judge a draft class at the end of their contract - 3-4 seasons after their draft.

[hen826957]

The Ravens got an A the year we drafted Kindle and Cody and last year Perriman got us an A as well and how did that turn out. In reality, it is a C- or a D at best. We are so scared of players that made mistakes in college that we drafted boy scouts and altar boys. Sorry, Football is a violent sport and sometimes those guys can straighten out and sometimes they get in more trouble, but we just can't keep avoiding everybody because of college mistakes. Terrell Suggs, Ray Lewis, Jamal Lewis, Ray Rice just to name a few were crucial in either one or both of the super bowls and based on our logic of drafting now, none of them would be on the Ravens. There are quite a bit more and Ozzie used to seek these guys out, now Bisciotti has neutered him and he has to take the squeaky clean guys who really are not the playmakers. The Ravens are a football team, not a personnel company and they can't be run the same way, Steve. We had a lousy draft and we ran away from the best players.

I agree with you. Only time will tell though, it's a OK draft but it could've been better. They could've gotten what the Jaguars gotten with thier first two picks Ramsey and Myles Jack. Disappointed in that. ?

[Drew P]

2 hours ago, surfdude said:

I'm glad they did. Spence is all hype.

I think they are getting a guy that plays his butt off every play

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, CLWG said:

After cooling down a bit, I am going to reserve judgment until training camp. The more I view film on our picks the less critical I am of these picks. I still say they got burnt by not picking Spence though.

If I were you, I'd reserve judgment until probably training camp of 2018, at the earliest.

You're just simply not going to know anything about any of these guys by the end of training camp in their first season.

[eze17]

  1 hour ago, ravenscavecreek said:

Great draft except for all the know it all crybabies on this site who have no life.

It was just plain bizzarre to see that the place where the Ravens got the most hatred and heat during the draft was not a fottball fan bar in downtown Pittsburgh - but the forum of the Baltimore Ravens website... Guys whose user name I've never ever seen here came crawling out of the woodwork and held a hate party rarely seen...

Wow, I agree...I didn't even bother responding there was so much hate flying around. I'm used to some negative nellies, but that was a trip...only time will tell, but i'm pretty happy with how it all worked out. Personally, I wanted to see us upgrade at CB and ILB more, but I thought overall we filled some holes and added much needed depth.

[757RavensFan]

2 hours ago, goldenboldin said:

What I would give to sit down with Oz, Eric and Coach and ask them why they passed on Noah Spence, or Mackenzie Alexander, or Myles Jack. That's what I'm most intrigued about

I think they're a little too busy running the team to meet w/ you, but they offered this article in their place.  

[eze17]

Oh, and to all those people who are saying we're only drafting "choir boys", and want us to draft "mean bad guys", Alex Lewis spent 45 days in jail for beating somebody up while in college...Happy now?

[ZCSlugo]

  1 hour ago, ravenscavecreek said:

Great draft except for all the know it all crybabies on this site who have no life.

It was just plain bizzarre to see that the place where the Ravens got the most hatred and heat during the draft was not a fottball fan bar in downtown Pittsburgh - but the forum of the Baltimore Ravens website... Guys whose user name I've never ever seen here came crawling out of the woodwork and held a hate party rarely seen...

Not all of us post everyday, but we are on the site everyday catching up on the daily news. Like many I was more shocked by who was not taken, more than who was. Their are a few regular poster on here whose hate party never ends, hard to believe they are Raven fans at all.

[eze17]

  1 hour ago, bioLarzen said:

  1 hour ago, ravenscavecreek said:

Great draft except for all the know it all crybabies on this site who have no life.

It was just plain bizzarre to see that the place where the Ravens got the most hatred and heat during the draft was not a fottball fan bar in downtown Pittsburgh - but the forum of the Baltimore Ravens website... Guys whose user name I've never ever seen here came crawling out of the woodwork and held a hate party rarely seen...

Not all of us post everyday, but we are on the site everyday catching up on the daily news. Like many I was more shocked by who was not taken, more than who was. Their are a few regular poster on here whose hate party never ends, hard to believe they are Raven fans at all.

There's always some squeelers, bungles and brownies fans lurking around this site trying to get our goat...

[Crusader]

I like the first three picks for next year but I just feel Ravens will be going into their 4th year with questionable secondary. Maybe teams will not have time to throw is Ravens philosophy?

[Crusader]

Oh, and to all those people who are saying we're only drafting "choir boys", and want us to draft "mean bad guys", Alex Lewis spent 45 days in jail for beating somebody up while in college...Happy now?

Good one!!!!

[goldenboldin]

Alright people here really take things literally lol. Alright let's phrase it for those people again...

hmm i wonder what Oz and company were thinking passing on those guys?

I love people character assassinating the commentators on this site just because they disagree. Obviously I have no football credentials but there are dozens of ex-coaches, analysts, scouts, and pundits that have plenty of knowledge and many of them are saying the same thing. Look face it ravens went safe in the draft. they went into the draft thinking they were a playoff team and not a team that won just 5 games a year ago so I hope we all stop with the passive aggressive comments just because we want to get defensive of our team

[goldenboldin]

  2 hours ago, goldenboldin said:

Heard someone on the radio say "man these ravens are going to church to get players".. I laughed but he's on point. I understand character issues, but it might compromise production and toughness that is necessary in the AFC North. These moves have John Harbaugh's stamp all over it.

why does it have to be either or? Can good football players only come with histories of bad decisions?

you're right it's not neccesarily one or the other, but i think most teams these days are willing to overlook pure talent and production when that player has off the field issues. and Harbaugh is strong on that we all know. So just stating that out loud. I don't think it's bad at all actually, but hope it doesn't compromise the quality of our team

[terpmaniac]

I have an idea. Let the message board experts pick the players. Let's see how that works out. Most of you have never set foot in a football GM's office but of course you still know whats best for the team...really?

[GyMan20]

Even if we assume he's right, I would really love to hear Mr. Hensley's explanation of what's wrong with goiung "safe". I bet he would have liked us to pick Jack - but what would his opinion be if Jack went down in his sophomore season never to really recover - a possibility well within the range of reality... Or what if we chose Tunsil over Stanley, to get an OT who's injured just as often as Monroe, while Stanley keeps protecting Mariota's blind side for seasons uninterrupted? Would Mr. Hensley write "well, I still think it was worth going bold with the draft"?

This might be my favorite thing I've read today.

[Crusader]

Look what they said in 2013
BALTIMORE RAVENS: Credit general manager Ozzie Newsome for his thorough understanding of his team and the draft board. He simply lets the board work in his favor and selects the right players to fill the team's biggest needs at the right value. Safety Matt Elam replaces Bernard Pollard as the designated tough guy in the back end, bringing better ball skills and awareness. Brown, a plug-and-play starter at inside linebacker, has the athleticism to rack up gaudy production as a sideline-to-sideline playmaker. Tackle Brandon Williams and end John Simon add depth to an already imposing defensive front. GRADE: B