My Current Guess At The Ravens 53-Man Roster (Merged)

[EdTheMythicalOne]

11 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well, for punts, you're looking at a large number of punts being either not returned at all or simple fair catches, so that's part of the reason why I find punt returners to be overvalued in terms of a "need". You really don't need a great ST (kick returner, kick coverage, etc.) in order to win in this league... you just can't suck at it. And there's no reason for me to believe that we will suck at it, regardless of who is back there. As long as they're making smart decisions (when to field, when to drop, etc.), I could really care less if we have an "explosive" returner on this team or not. Its a luxury item, not a need item.

I get the "we don't want a stud player getting injured" concept, except I don't really buy it, because I can't recall many, if any, instances where a key player like a Patrick Peterson or an Ed Reed was actually significantly injured returning a kick. The majority of ST injuries occur to players who are being blocked or engaging, not to the people actually making the returns. So while I agree there's risk there, if that's the only guy I trust back to to field the punt properly, I'm taking that risk, because the injury risk isn't nearly as great as the risk of a muffed or botched punt in my opinion.

Time will tell what happens with the new kickoff rules. My gut thinks that its a bit of a gamble for kickers to intentionally kick short, because by doing so, they're probably going to end up kicking to about the 5-10 yard line everytime, which puts the return range at about the same level as it was when the ball was coming out to the 20. Getting a 20 yard return on a kickoff isn't exactly that difficult.

The game has changed a lot as far as special teams go and now punters try to kick away from dangerous returners and prefer to try to get the ball out of bounds. The Ravens have been looking for "the guy" since Jacoby Jones left town and they were indeed horrible. The list of names that have tried and failed is very long. While on the subject of Jacoby Jones...he actually got injured on a return when a member of his own team (Branden Trawick) ran into him. At the time Jones was our #2 receiver and he missed a good chunk of time.

As for the kick offs it would be attempted by those teams blessed with guys that have a strong leg. You don't intentionally hit a change up and kick the ball softer, instead you change the trajectory of the kick and kick it higher in the air, increase the hang time, and allow your gunners and such to get down the field to make a play. And what you said is the whole idea. They might get it out to the 20, but a fair catch is now at the 25. In a game that comes down to inches at times, five extra yards can make a difference. If there is anything to this theory I would think the Ravens would try it out in pre season games. If Tucker never attempts it then we know that some players that mentioned it were just blowing some hot air.
 

[rmcjacket23]

13 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

The game has changed a lot as far as special teams go and now punters try to kick away from dangerous returners and prefer to try to get the ball out of bounds. The Ravens have been looking for "the guy" since Jacoby Jones left town and they were indeed horrible. The list of names that have tried and failed is very long. While on the subject of Jacoby Jones...he actually got injured on a return when a member of his own team (Branden Trawick) ran into him. At the time Jones was our #2 receiver and he missed a good chunk of time.

As for the kick offs it would be attempted by those teams blessed with guys that have a strong leg. You don't intentionally hit a change up and kick the ball softer, instead you change the trajectory of the kick and kick it higher in the air, increase the hang time, and allow your gunners and such to get down the field to make a play. And what you said is the whole idea. They might get it out to the 20, but a fair catch is now at the 25. In a game that comes down to inches at times, five extra yards can make a difference. If there is anything to this theory I would think the Ravens would try it out in pre season games. If Tucker never attempts it then we know that some players that mentioned it were just blowing some hot air.
 

1. Its kind of a myth that Jacoby was a great punt returner. He made some "sexy" plays in the SB and during 2012 and certainly helped win us some games, but if you look at 2013-2014, its not overly impressive. In 2014 he was tied for 9th in punt return average, had 0 TDs, and fumbled 3 times. Less than a year later, he's out of the league completely.

2. That's not what I said. What I said is if a team can pretty consistently get a 20 yard return, and you are intentionally not kicking it in the end zone, a 20 yard return would bring you pretty close to the 25 yard line. If a kicker is kicking it to the 5 yard line intentionally to avoid a touchback, and the return is 20 yards, that spots the ball at the 25... the exact same spot as where a touchback puts you.

There was only three teams in the league last season that didn't average at least 20 yards per return, and the league average is right at about 23-24 yards. So if you intentionally kick the ball to the 1-2 yard line, on average, its the same as a TB at the 25. That's why I'm not convinced (though we will find out) that its a strategy teams will adopt all the time.

Ironically, the notion of a team doing this also goes against your argument of being concerned with a returner getting injured. Less TBs would lead to more collisions, and as such, more injuries. So teams will need to decide if the injury risk to their ST players is worth the reward of potentially gaining less than 5 yards on average (depending on how you look at it, not gaining any yardage at all).

And I doubt we see anything different in the preseason, because Tucker doesn't kick TBs that often in the preseason. He's specifically told not to, so that the coaching staff can evaluate kick coverage on ST. There's literally dozens of guys out there trying to make the team as a ST player and kick coverage guy, so sending Tucker out there to kick TBs every time isn't beneficial in the preseason. He may "practice" this aspect in the preseason, but that's not much different than any other preseason under prior rules. 

[EdTheMythicalOne]

Some roster moves by the Ravens:

SIGNED:

CB Jerraud Powers

CUT/RELEASED:

WR: Marlon Brown

DE: Nordli Capi

DB: Jermaine Whitehead

DB: Nick Perry

[EdTheMythicalOne]

On 5/12/2016 at 9:31 AM, rmcjacket23 said:

1. Its kind of a myth that Jacoby was a great punt returner. He made some "sexy" plays in the SB and during 2012 and certainly helped win us some games, but if you look at 2013-2014, its not overly impressive. In 2014 he was tied for 9th in punt return average, had 0 TDs, and fumbled 3 times. Less than a year later, he's out of the league completely.

2. That's not what I said. What I said is if a team can pretty consistently get a 20 yard return, and you are intentionally not kicking it in the end zone, a 20 yard return would bring you pretty close to the 25 yard line. If a kicker is kicking it to the 5 yard line intentionally to avoid a touchback, and the return is 20 yards, that spots the ball at the 25... the exact same spot as where a touchback puts you.

There was only three teams in the league last season that didn't average at least 20 yards per return, and the league average is right at about 23-24 yards. So if you intentionally kick the ball to the 1-2 yard line, on average, its the same as a TB at the 25. That's why I'm not convinced (though we will find out) that its a strategy teams will adopt all the time.

Ironically, the notion of a team doing this also goes against your argument of being concerned with a returner getting injured. Less TBs would lead to more collisions, and as such, more injuries. So teams will need to decide if the injury risk to their ST players is worth the reward of potentially gaining less than 5 yards on average (depending on how you look at it, not gaining any yardage at all).

And I doubt we see anything different in the preseason, because Tucker doesn't kick TBs that often in the preseason. He's specifically told not to, so that the coaching staff can evaluate kick coverage on ST. There's literally dozens of guys out there trying to make the team as a ST player and kick coverage guy, so sending Tucker out there to kick TBs every time isn't beneficial in the preseason. He may "practice" this aspect in the preseason, but that's not much different than any other preseason under prior rules. 

1) Jones was a very good returner and that is one of the reasons the Ravens got him. I don't find it odd that his drop off in production came after his teammate blew out his knee.

2) No kicker is intentionally kicking the ball at the 5 to get a team to return it. They are kicking it as close to the goal line as you can to force a kick off. And in the battle of field position a difference of 5 yards can make a lot of difference.

3) I never said there was a concern with a returner getting injured. I said there was a concern if you have one of your premier position players acting as your returner you wouldn't want to expose them. Exposing a guy like Kaelin Clay to only kick offs as opposed to a guy like Ed Reed in the past or Lardarius Webb when he was our starting CB is a huge difference and that is what I am talking about.

And yes, Tucker does kick TBs in pre season. I've watched enough to know that he indeed does.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

On 5/9/2016 at 1:07 PM, Bandwagon said:

Obviously.... I'm talking about mainly around 5 extra people that can't fit in the 53...

Because you have a 10 man practice squad to fill out.

[Mad Puppy]

On 5/1/2016 at 9:17 AM, IceUpSon89 said:

QB:Flacco/Mallet-2

RB:Forsett/Allen/Dixon-3

FB:Juszczyk-1

TE:Watson/gillmore/Williams-3

WR:Smith/Aiken/perriman/Wallace/butler/Moore/Reynolds-7

T:Stanley/Monroe/Lewis/Wagner-4

IL:Yanda/zuttah/urschel/Jensen-4

ST:Tucker/Koch/Cox-3

DE:Guy/urban/kaufusi-3

DT:Williams/Jernigan/Davis/Henry-4

OLB:Suggs/dumervil/correa/smith/judon -5

ILB:Mosely/Orr/McClellan/UDFA-4

CB:Smith/wright/Davis/young/canady-5

S:Weddle/Webb/brooks/Lewis/Elam-5

 

i did this with the idea of keeping all of our draftees and one UDFA. 

 

Sorry but no way EVERY rookie makes the team.

Stanley, is most likely to play, Correa will be a player and Kaufusi should be a rotational guy. The rest have an uphill climb. WR is a crowded area and though we lack talent there, it is highly possible both rookies end up on practice squad or IR(as is usual for drafted WR rookies on this team). With a real possibility that Reynolds gets the Kick return duties when Campanaro has another camp injury and he is finally cut.

Canaday and the Two linemen (ALEX LEWIS OT/G, and WILLIE HENRY DT) have very low chances to make the team. We have a glut of OG on this team and DT is also a position of strength.The Ravens are still bringing in CB veterans.

We shall see but the law of averages says we will be lucky to get 4 starters/part timers out of the draft.

We will likely have a surprise MLB make the team either a free agent vet or UDFA.

[Mad Puppy]

On 5/2/2016 at 3:15 AM, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Defensive Back Edition

 

What most fans remember last season is a secondary that was torched early and often and allowed one huge play after another. Due to numerous injuries and players coming back from injuries the secondary was not healthy and lacked talent early on. What fans may not remember is that when the Ravens added Shareece Wright to the mix and started to slot Lardarius Webb in various alignments the pass defense actually was locked down fairly tight. Fans were dreaming of scenarios where Jalen Ramsey would fall to us at our sixth pick. We learned that Ozzie Newsome actually tried to trade up will Dallas to get their number four pick in and effort to get Ramsey. Ozzie claims that the asking price was too high and the rest is now history. Many thought we would surely draft a corner early on in the second round. I think I could hear the collective gasps when the Ravens traded down not once, but twice, and then finally drafted Correa.

 

So did the Ravens find any help? They certainly hope so. I don't think the Ravens believe they found a starter in this draft, but by selecting Tavon Young in the fourth round they think they found a slot corner with potential to do more. With their last pick; a compensatory pick in the sixth round, they added Maurice Canaday. Young is a bit undersized but is a feisty competitor with a little bit of speed. Canaday has the size you look for and length, but is a bit slow and lacks confidence. He plays way off of receivers for fear of getting beaten deep. He'll need a lot of coaching up.

 

The back end of the secondary has been a miss-mash of names rotating in and out year after year. Matt Elam looks so far to be a bust and is coming back from a torn pectoral muscle. Will Hill got into trouble with substance abuse again and is no longer on the team. Kendrick Lewis didn't really show much in his first season with the team. Terrence Brooks hasn't been able to stay on the field to show his potential due to numerous injuries. What did the Ravens do?

 

They made one of their three big free agent splashes by signing Eric Weddle. Weddle is a proven veteran with strong leadership skills whom the Ravens hope can help settle down the rest of the secondary and keep them from giving up the big plays. Continuously searching for an Ed Reed type, rangy, center-fielder at the other safety position and not finding that guy, Ozzie Newsome is hoping that converted CB and former college safety Lardarius Webb can be the answer.

 

What does our inventory look like? At cornerback you have Jimmy Smith in his second season removed from a lisfranc injury that clearly affected him last season. Starting opposite him is his good friend Shareece Wright whom the Ravens rewarded handsomely with a new contract after his showing last season. Veteran corner and potential slot player Kyle Arrington looks to show more than he did last year. Will Davis returns from an injury and hopes he can earn a spot. The two rookies mentioned above; Tavon Young and Maurice Canaday, are in the mix. After that is a mix of street free agents and practice squad players that might be squeezed out of a spot. Jumal Rolle, Julian Wilson, Jermaine Whitehead, and ERFA Sheldon Price are all still in house. At safety we have newly acquired Eric Weddle, Lardarius Webb, special team ace Anthony Levine, Terrence Brooks, former first round pick Matt Elam, Kendrick Lewis, and Nick Perry.

 

I can see up to eight or nine roster spots being devoted to the secondary giving enough freedom to carry whichever players suit our needs the best. Who gets the call?

 

Roster Count: 9: Jimmy Smith, Shareece Wright, Kyle Arrington, Tavon Young, Will Davis, Eric Weddle, Lardarius Webb, Anthony Levine, Nick Perry.

Total Roster Count: 48

 

I seriously think Matt Elam is in danger of losing his spot and especially so if he has a bad preseason. Terrence Brooks has been too injury prone, and Kendrick Lewis didn't show much. Nick Perry I think is a wild card because he's a big body safety who might be able to fulfill that dime linebacker spot I mentioned earlier. Levine is a stand out on special teams and also is a versatile player who can play corner in a pinch.

Bold Choices I like it.

[Suggsrules]

 Here is my re-attempt at a 53 #2.

QB: Flacco, Mallet

RB/FB: Forsett, Dixon, Allen, Juice  (T-rich) (somehow I have a feeling he makes it be it through another player's injury or a trade)

WR: Smith Sr., Permian, Wallace, Aiken, Moore, Reynolds  (Camp do not see him making team now with reynolds getting navy clearance.) 

TE: Watson, Williams, Gillmore, Pitta

OL: Stanley, Wagner, Yanda, Jensen,Urschel, Zuttah, Lewis, Monroe (no point letting Monroe go we have plenty of cap room unless someone trades for him and one of our seemingly strong OL Undrafted signee's step up and force a move)

 

DL: Williams, Jernigan, Davis, Kaufusi, Guy, Henry 

OLB: Suggs, Dumervil, Correa, Smith, Judon, Ochi

ILB: Mosely, Orr, Mclellan, Brown

CB: Smith, Wright, Young, Davis, Powers (i knew there would be a fa pick up)

S: Weddle, Webb, Levine, Brooks, Elam

ST: Tucker, Koch, Cox

[rmw10]

2 hours ago, Mad Puppy said:

Sorry but no way EVERY rookie makes the team.

Stanley, is most likely to play, Correa will be a player and Kaufusi should be a rotational guy. The rest have an uphill climb. WR is a crowded area and though we lack talent there, it is highly possible both rookies end up on practice squad or IR(as is usual for drafted WR rookies on this team). With a real possibility that Reynolds gets the Kick return duties when Campanaro has another camp injury and he is finally cut.

Canaday and the Two linemen (ALEX LEWIS OT/G, and WILLIE HENRY DT) have very low chances to make the team. We have a glut of OG on this team and DT is also a position of strength.The Ravens are still bringing in CB veterans.

We shall see but the law of averages says we will be lucky to get 4 starters/part timers out of the draft.

We will likely have a surprise MLB make the team either a free agent vet or UDFA.

The 4th round guys are in no real danger.  As I've said before, no team is using a 4th round pick on a guy they don't anticipate making the team.  The only ways they aren't on the roster is if they get arrested, injured, or just flat out suck.  Lewis and Henry both have pretty much guaranteed chances because they're young players that would squeeze out someone else before they're gone.

[Darhk_Raven]

3 hours ago, Suggsrules said:

 Here is my re-attempt at a 53 #2.

QB: Flacco, Mallet

RB/FB: Forsett, Dixon, Allen, Juice  (T-rich) (somehow I have a feeling he makes it be it through another player's injury or a trade)

WR: Smith Sr., Permian, Wallace, Aiken, Moore, Reynolds  (Camp do not see him making team now with reynolds getting navy clearance.) 

TE: Watson, Williams, Gillmore, Pitta

OL: Stanley, Wagner, Yanda, Jensen,Urschel, Zuttah, Lewis, Monroe (no point letting Monroe go we have plenty of cap room unless someone trades for him and one of our seemingly strong OL Undrafted signee's step up and force a move)

 

DL: Williams, Jernigan, Davis, Kaufusi, Guy, Henry 

OLB: Suggs, Dumervil, Correa, Smith, Judon, Ochi

ILB: Mosely, Orr, Mclellan, Brown

CB: Smith, Wright, Young, Davis, Powers (i knew there would be a fa pick up)

S: Weddle, Webb, Levine, Brooks, Elam

ST: Tucker, Koch, Cox

So I take it the order that you have the players in is your starters and back ups... if so what makes you put Maxx over Gilmore?

[Suggsrules]

No my list is not put in any particular order.  I did not put that much thought into it sorry.   Just simply my two cents for what t's worth as to who would make the team.  All of that is as of now of course barring injury and camp battles that will determine the fate of some.  I would not speculate on starters Maxx and Gillmore will be on plenty of plays as will Watson and a healthy Pitta.   Trestman loves two tight ends as we all know he currently has four viable options.  Does anybody have an infallible crystal ball certainly not me.  

[jdynamite]

On May 2, 2016 at 2:14 AM, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Defensive Line Edition

 

The front line defense of the Ravens has been extremely good against the rush in recent history. If there is one weakness it is that there is no real pass rush threat coming from this group. It already was a fairly solid group of players and although the Ravens front office declared they were looking to get after the quarterback it seems like that threat will predominately come from our outside linebackers. So what names are in the mix for the roster spots?

 

Brandon Williams will be returning to spearhead the attack at the nose, but also of note is that he is a pending free agent. The Ravens need to decide on locking him up long term or finding a replacement. I personally don't think that player is on the roster. Also returning to the mix are tackles Carl Davis, and Timmy Jernigan. Jernigan has shown a slow but steady progression and might emerge as more of a pass rushing threat and Carl Davis still has something to show us. Also joining them will be rookie Willie Henry, and UDFA's O.J. Mau and Micheal Pierce. Pierce could be the back up to Williams at the nose and has some notoriety for being able to squat 750lbs.

 

On the interior edges we have lunch pail performer Lawrence Guy who added a little bit of a pass rushing threat, two oft-injured players in Kapron Lewis-Moore and Brent Urban, rookie third round pick Bronson Kaufusi, Nordly Capi, and UDFA Maro Ojamuda. Keep in mind that the Ravens play a hybrid sort of front seven and a lot of these players are interchangeable at end and tackle with a rare few also being able to play nose tackle as well.

 

The Ravens used seven different players long that front three or sometimes four and I could see them carrying as many as six roster spots for defensive line to keep a steady rotation in place and the big bodies fresh. Which names do I think you'll be seeing come opening day?

 

Brandon Williams will be the nose tackle, there really is no question about that. The Ravens love the work of Lawrence Guy and if he isn't a starter he is a stout rotational player. Timmy Jernigan will get the nod to start along side of Williams. Carl Davis could contend with Lawrence Guy for his spot as a starter, but should also at least make the club as a rotational player and as a back up to Brandon Williams. I think the team takes another chance on a healthy Brent Urban. It would take a lot to go wrong for a third round pick to not make the roster so my final spot goes to Bronson Kaufusi. Kapron Lewis-Moore has been injured too much and unfortunately just hasn't shown a lot in his time as a Raven. I think the Ravens try to keep Micheal Pierce on the practice squad.

 

Roster Count: 6: Brandon Williams, Timmy Jernigan, Carl Davis, Brent Urban, Lawrence Guy, Bronson Kaufusi

Total Roster Count: 31

 

Where is Rookie Willie Henry out of Michigan? 

[elemento]

7 hours ago, rmw10 said:

The 4th round guys are in no real danger.  As I've said before, no team is using a 4th round pick on a guy they don't anticipate making the team.  The only ways they aren't on the roster is if they get arrested, injured, or just flat out suck.  Lewis and Henry both have pretty much guaranteed chances because they're young players that would squeeze out someone else before they're gone.

People have no idea how good Willie Henry is. There's zero chance he is not part of the 53-roster. (unless drugs, arrests, injuries happen as you said etc)

The Ravens got a massive steal with him. Along with Dixon, he is the player I'm more excited about. Don't be surprised if he becomes a full-time starter in 2 years. The kid is an Ox. Great burst amazing athlete, long arms and a gym rat. 

[Mad Puppy]

8 hours ago, rmw10 said:

The 4th round guys are in no real danger.  As I've said before, no team is using a 4th round pick on a guy they don't anticipate making the team.  The only ways they aren't on the roster is if they get arrested, injured, or just flat out suck.  Lewis and Henry both have pretty much guaranteed chances because they're young players that would squeeze out someone else before they're gone.

I couldn't disagree more. The 4th round has an ~20-25% success rate of becoming a starter. After drafting 5 players only 1 is likely to become a starter. 

As I said in another Thread I would have traded 2 of the 4th rounders to re-enter the 3rd round and draft a higher potential player.

[rmw10]

5 minutes ago, Mad Puppy said:

I couldn't disagree more. The 4th round has an ~20-25% success rate of becoming a starter. After drafting 5 players only 1 is likely to become a starter. 

As I said in another Thread I would have traded 2 of the 4th rounders to re-enter the 3rd round and draft a higher potential player.

I pointed it out in a previous thread (and I was actually wrong then on the number) but only 2 players drafted in the 4th round in the last 3 years have not made the drafting team's opening day roster.  Chris Harper, who was a failed WR to HB convert, and Vince Mayle, who never should have been drafted in the 4th round in the first place.

The success rate doesn't matter in their first season.  Teams don't draft guys in the 4th round only to cut them.  As seen above, it's a rare instance that it actually happens.

[GrimCoconut]

53 minutes ago, Mad Puppy said:

I couldn't disagree more. The 4th round has an ~20-25% success rate of becoming a starter. After drafting 5 players only 1 is likely to become a starter. 

As I said in another Thread I would have traded 2 of the 4th rounders to re-enter the 3rd round and draft a higher potential player.

Because Bernard Pierce and Jah Reid were any better than guys taken in the 4th rounds. The entire draft is a gamble. Granted, the earlier you pick the less a gamble it should be but there are plenty of day one and two "busts."

[Winchester]

7 hours ago, Mad Puppy said:

I couldn't disagree more. The 4th round has an ~20-25% success rate of becoming a starter. After drafting 5 players only 1 is likely to become a starter. 

As I said in another Thread I would have traded 2 of the 4th rounders to re-enter the 3rd round and draft a higher potential player.

In a typical draft i would trade a tandem of round4 picks to get back into round3 no debate about it!! However what this draft is missing in top10 sex appeal it made up in a deep pool of talent. There is not much separating round3 and round4 at many positions in this draft. Will Henry and Hassan Ridgeway are as skilled as the round2 defensive tackles. And are actually better at getting to the qb than Robinson and Reed. T young and Reshard Robinson are as good as the round2 cornerbacks. Young has skills to be very very good cornerback. Just a notch below the top guys is his ceiling. Robinson I said it before is the best cornerback in this draft. Call me out on it guys and insult me if I'm wrong!! I wanted ravens to get him.  Chris Moore and malcolm mitchell are better than many of the round2 and round3 receivers. As a matter of fact Mayock and some of the  experts took notice of Chris Moore later in draft season and said he creeper under radar and has more raw talent than many of the receivers that will get drafted before him. And said although he is a late player to push up draft boards a team could draft him in round2 even without a lot of hours scouting on him as typical round2 picks. He plays far faster than his 40 time. He pulled away from Jackson 4.37 and Apple 4.40. He is raw as an intermediate route runner but very flexible and sudden. Will Henry could run a 4.8 and 2 gap. His get off and closing speed is rush LB territory.  !  Moore and Henry have top shelf work ethics. My point is this is not a typical round4. Dixon speaks for himself as a talent available round4.

 

Demarcus Robinson is a unique round 4 talent as well  would not surprise me if he turns out to be the best receiver in this draft. I would of preferred him over Alex Lewis. I liked many players in round4. Would like the ravens to of drafted Ridgeway, Reshard Robinson and Demarcus Robinson in addition to the players already drafted in round4. I would actually trade a round 1 pick from next year for additional round 3 and and 2 round4 picks this draft. With the Robinsons in round4 and Ngakoue round3 ravens would really benefit this year with all that talent. Then there is higbee that is more talented than most round2 TEs. So this is not your typical round4 in typical drafts

[KBoum]

My first 53 attempt 

 

QB: Flacco, Mallet

RB/FB: Dixon, Allen, Juice. T-Rich/West (1 of them makes the team and they cut Forsett, he's getting old, would free a big capsavings)

WR: Smith Sr., Perriman, Wallace, Aiken, Moore, Reynolds, Butler

TE: Watson, Williams, Gillmore. (I believe they will use some more 2 TE sets this year - Waller on IR trying to coach/bulk him up)

OL: Stanley, Wagner, Yanda, Jensen,Urschel, Lewis, 1 of. (Monroe or Zuttah will be cut)

 

DTs: Williams (2 gap), Davis (2 gap) Jernigan (1 gap)  Henry (1 gap)

LDEs: Kaufusi/Guy/Doom

RDEs: Suggs/ZDS/Judon

SAM: Dumervil/Correa/Ochi

ILB: Mosley, Orr, Mclellan, Brown, Trade or Camp Cut

CB: Smith, Wright, Young, Davis, Powers, --- Canady (IR)

FS: Webb, Brooks

SS: Weddle, Elam, Levine (won't save much money cutting Elam unlike Lewis)

ST: Tucker, Koch, Cox

[rmcjacket23]

On 5/14/2016 at 8:02 PM, EdTheMythicalOne said:

1) Jones was a very good returner and that is one of the reasons the Ravens got him. I don't find it odd that his drop off in production came after his teammate blew out his knee.

2) No kicker is intentionally kicking the ball at the 5 to get a team to return it. They are kicking it as close to the goal line as you can to force a kick off. And in the battle of field position a difference of 5 yards can make a lot of difference.

3) I never said there was a concern with a returner getting injured. I said there was a concern if you have one of your premier position players acting as your returner you wouldn't want to expose them. Exposing a guy like Kaelin Clay to only kick offs as opposed to a guy like Ed Reed in the past or Lardarius Webb when he was our starting CB is a huge difference and that is what I am talking about.

And yes, Tucker does kick TBs in pre season. I've watched enough to know that he indeed does.

1. I don't care what the reason is why Jacoby hasn't been as good. I'm not looking for excuses or reasons. All I care about is production. The drop in production could have been caused by one of a dozen reasons, including age and a reduction in speed that comes with age. Decision making is a factor there, and that has diminished as well (which would have nothing to do with any injuries).

2. I didn't say kickers were intentionally kicking the ball to the 5 yard line... I said they don't necessarily have a choice. No kicker in the league is good enough to consistently kick the ball to exactly the 1-2 yard line every time. Those kickers just simply don't exist on the planet. While the GOAL is to kick the ball as close to the goal line as possible, goals and things people actually accomplish are two different things. If the ball lands at the 3-4 yard line, and the average kick return is 23-24 yards, that's spotting the ball somewhere between the 25-30 yard line on average... meaning a touchback would yield better yardage.

That's the entire point. If the average kick return is 23-24 yards, a kickoff that lands literally right on the goal line would yield only a net 1-2 yard gain. That's sort of the best case scenario on average.

3. The only time we put premier position players on the field for punts is when we are fair catching. We've done this with Ed, Webb, etc., and that's not likely to change. You want somebody out there with good hands and who is smart and knows what to do... that's the reason for that. 

My point is that having a player who is purely a kick returner can often be a wasted roster spot, particularly when anybody we would do that for is an unknown. Jacoby was an established returner, just like a guy like Hester was. We don't have a deep enough or talented enough roster to give somebody a roster spot purely for their return skills when we don't even know if those skills exist.

4. Yes, he does. That's not what I said either. I said he's not kicking TBs all the time, nor is he even doing it most of the time. That doesn't accomplish anything in a preseason game. All it shows is that Tucker can kick the ball far, which he and everybody else already knows.

If Tucker is kicking TBs in the preseason, its for a reason. Most likely, it has to do with us wanting to see how our defense does in a normal situation. But generally speaking, doesn't do the ST unit any good in a preseason game to watch Tucker kick the ball through the end zone.

In just looking back at 2015 preseason, 11 of the 16 kickoffs (excluding onside kicks or "squibs") that Tucker had were returned. And it looks like 4 of the 5 that weren't returned all occurred in the last preseason game of the year. So during the primary evaluation period (first three preseason games), Tucker had one TB. 

[EdTheMythicalOne]

Ravens add three more:

signed:

QB Josh Johnson

OG Vlad Ducasse

UDFA DB: Sam Brown

That's the second Johnson they have at QB now because they also have Jerrod Johnson. Camp arm and I think Ducasse is a camp body as well. Could be insurance in case they do cut Monroe and a rookie doesn't pan out at Guard like they hope. Sam Brown....he's got a shot. If he can play he'll make it on the roster

Edited May 16, 2016 by EdTheMythicalOne

[EdTheMythicalOne]

On 5/14/2016 at 4:10 PM, jdynamite said:

Where is Rookie Willie Henry out of Michigan? 

I didn't include a practice squad roster and my total roster count of people I named is only about 50 out of 53. Those last three spots can come down to whom the Ravens want to keep extras at other positions and I named Henry there or as a possible Practice squad player. While he might be good, he's got Brandon Williams and Carl Davis ahead of him at DT on the depth chart. I also didn't include Matt Judon who could also be one of those last 3 roster spot bubble picks.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. I don't care what the reason is why Jacoby hasn't been as good. I'm not looking for excuses or reasons. All I care about is production. The drop in production could have been caused by one of a dozen reasons, including age and a reduction in speed that comes with age. Decision making is a factor there, and that has diminished as well (which would have nothing to do with any injuries).

2. I didn't say kickers were intentionally kicking the ball to the 5 yard line... I said they don't necessarily have a choice. No kicker in the league is good enough to consistently kick the ball to exactly the 1-2 yard line every time. Those kickers just simply don't exist on the planet. While the GOAL is to kick the ball as close to the goal line as possible, goals and things people actually accomplish are two different things. If the ball lands at the 3-4 yard line, and the average kick return is 23-24 yards, that's spotting the ball somewhere between the 25-30 yard line on average... meaning a touchback would yield better yardage.

That's the entire point. If the average kick return is 23-24 yards, a kickoff that lands literally right on the goal line would yield only a net 1-2 yard gain. That's sort of the best case scenario on average.

3. The only time we put premier position players on the field for punts is when we are fair catching. We've done this with Ed, Webb, etc., and that's not likely to change. You want somebody out there with good hands and who is smart and knows what to do... that's the reason for that. 

My point is that having a player who is purely a kick returner can often be a wasted roster spot, particularly when anybody we would do that for is an unknown. Jacoby was an established returner, just like a guy like Hester was. We don't have a deep enough or talented enough roster to give somebody a roster spot purely for their return skills when we don't even know if those skills exist.

4. Yes, he does. That's not what I said either. I said he's not kicking TBs all the time, nor is he even doing it most of the time. That doesn't accomplish anything in a preseason game. All it shows is that Tucker can kick the ball far, which he and everybody else already knows.

If Tucker is kicking TBs in the preseason, its for a reason. Most likely, it has to do with us wanting to see how our defense does in a normal situation. But generally speaking, doesn't do the ST unit any good in a preseason game to watch Tucker kick the ball through the end zone.

In just looking back at 2015 preseason, 11 of the 16 kickoffs (excluding onside kicks or "squibs") that Tucker had were returned. And it looks like 4 of the 5 that weren't returned all occurred in the last preseason game of the year. So during the primary evaluation period (first three preseason games), Tucker had one TB. 

1) Sure, the exact correlation to Jones getting injured and then being less productive means nothing to you because it doesn't support the argument you want to make, even though that is exactly what happened. He was our #2 receiver and a top return man in his first season with the Ravens.

2) Kick returns might be averaging 20+ yards now because they now add the yardage from the endzone as well which is a recent development within the last few years. So now if you receive the ball 5 yards deep in the endzone and return it 15 yards, you get credit for a 20 yard kick return, but the ball is on the 15.

3) Why does Ed Reed and Webb have return yards on punts if they were always fair catching them? Reed even had a punt return TD. I don't even know why we are discussing this because my whole point is that you don't put a quality roster player in on returns for the risk of injury to said player. This is why you usually DO have a guy that is considered a return specialist who is not a primary skill position player. It may be your 3rd RB, 3rd or 4th receiver, 3rd or 4th corner, something like that. For the past several years we didn't have players healthy or good enough to play position skills AND be a return man. Hence, Kaelin Clay. If nobody plays better than Clay it is his job to lose again and it will be his primary job on the team. This is almost like saying, why carry a guy who is JUST a long snapper. Why not make it some other guy who can actually do something other than that since a long snapper only comes in for 10 plays or so a game?

4) So you agree with me, good. Now that we got that settled...Tucker is one of the best kickers around and I bet you he'd hit a kick off target more often than not if that was his job to do so. Sam Koch can do it with punts and that's why he got paid.

This is gonna be my last response to you because you seem to want to go around in circles and disregard anything if it doesn't support your side of the discussion.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

On 5/14/2016 at 8:26 AM, Mad Puppy said:

Bold Choices I like it.

Thanks, but Nick Perry was just cut, so there goes that idea

I was right about Marlon Brown. Apparently he was cut due to a failed physical. He's been banged up a lot the last few seasons with back issues if I remember correctly. Shame. He came out of nowhere and went promptly back there.

[rmcjacket23]

28 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

1) Sure, the exact correlation to Jones getting injured and then being less productive means nothing to you because it doesn't support the argument you want to make, even though that is exactly what happened. He was our #2 receiver and a top return man in his first season with the Ravens.

2) Kick returns might be averaging 20+ yards now because they now add the yardage from the endzone as well which is a recent development within the last few years. So now if you receive the ball 5 yards deep in the endzone and return it 15 yards, you get credit for a 20 yard kick return, but the ball is on the 15.

3) Why does Ed Reed and Webb have return yards on punts if they were always fair catching them? Reed even had a punt return TD. I don't even know why we are discussing this because my whole point is that you don't put a quality roster player in on returns for the risk of injury to said player. This is why you usually DO have a guy that is considered a return specialist who is not a primary skill position player. It may be your 3rd RB, 3rd or 4th receiver, 3rd or 4th corner, something like that. For the past several years we didn't have players healthy or good enough to play position skills AND be a return man. Hence, Kaelin Clay. If nobody plays better than Clay it is his job to lose again and it will be his primary job on the team. This is almost like saying, why carry a guy who is JUST a long snapper. Why not make it some other guy who can actually do something other than that since a long snapper only comes in for 10 plays or so a game?

4) So you agree with me, good. Now that we got that settled...Tucker is one of the best kickers around and I bet you he'd hit a kick off target more often than not if that was his job to do so. Sam Koch can do it with punts and that's why he got paid.

This is gonna be my last response to you because you seem to want to go around in circles and disregard anything if it doesn't support your side of the discussion.

LOL, no.

1. I don't care about Jacoby's injury because neither I nor you have any idea how much it impacted him in the return game. You can GUESS that it caused him to decline, just like I can GUESS that his decline is based more on reduced speed due to age and poor decision making, with the latter being the most noticeable regression in my eyes.

And your timeline is a bit off. Jacoby's first season in Baltimore was in 2012... the SB season. He was the "#3" WR on that team, and was 5th on the team in receiving yardage behind Boldin, Torrey, Pitta, and even Ray Rice. He averaged 25 yards a game and had 1 regular season TD as a receiver.

AND, in 2013, which was by far Jacoby's best season as a WR, he was still the #3 WR, even after we lost Boldin and Pitta. Marlon Brown, a rookie UDFA at the time, had more receptions, targets, yards and TDs than Jacoby. Jacoby still averaged 38 yards per game and had 2 TDs as a receiver.

And 2014 obviously isn't even worth talking about for him in terms of being a receiver... he caught 9 passes... total.

2. The return yardage is based on how many yards they actually get, not where the ball is spotted. So if a kicker kicks the ball 5 yards into the end zone, and the return comes out 23 yards, that spots the ball at the 18 yard line.

Under the NEW rules, if a kicker kicks the ball in the endzone, you'll rarely see anybody bring it out, since a TB is now at the 25. YOUR argument is that kickers will intentionally kick the ball short of the end zone, which is possible. Though, again, if they intentionally kick the ball short of the end zone, and an average return is 23 yards, on average, the ball is going to be spotted about the same as a new TB would be (the 25 yard line). If you want to convince yourself that even a handful of kickers in the league are good enough to put the ball between the goal line and the 1 yard line 100% of the time, so that they will get a net gain, on average, of 1-2 yards on a kickoff, be my guest. There isn't any historical information to support that.

3. So that entire post was just to agree with me. If you're saying that a kick returner is typically your 3rd or 4th best receiver or a reserve secondary player, then you are correct... I've said that over and over again already. An actual return specialist who does nothing on the team but return kicks is very rare and almost unheard of, thus when people are referencing guys like Keenan Reynolds as guys who will be kept solely as kick returners, I point out that teams generally don't do that. It doesn't make sense to do it.

If you recall, Jacoby basically was that player in 2014. He did nothing in terms of offensive production, and we actually cut him (not having anybody even remotely capable of doing better on our roster) for less than $1M in cap savings.

 

Edited May 16, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[EdTheMythicalOne]

On 5/16/2016 at 0:35 PM, rmcjacket23 said:

LOL, no.

1. I don't care about Jacoby's injury because neither I nor you have any idea how much it impacted him in the return game. You can GUESS that it caused him to decline, just like I can GUESS that his decline is based more on reduced speed due to age and poor decision making, with the latter being the most noticeable regression in my eyes.

And your timeline is a bit off. Jacoby's first season in Baltimore was in 2012... the SB season. He was the "#3" WR on that team, and was 5th on the team in receiving yardage behind Boldin, Torrey, Pitta, and even Ray Rice. He averaged 25 yards a game and had 1 regular season TD as a receiver.

AND, in 2013, which was by far Jacoby's best season as a WR, he was still the #3 WR, even after we lost Boldin and Pitta. Marlon Brown, a rookie UDFA at the time, had more receptions, targets, yards and TDs than Jacoby. Jacoby still averaged 38 yards per game and had 2 TDs as a receiver.

And 2014 obviously isn't even worth talking about for him in terms of being a receiver... he caught 9 passes... total.

2. The return yardage is based on how many yards they actually get, not where the ball is spotted. So if a kicker kicks the ball 5 yards into the end zone, and the return comes out 23 yards, that spots the ball at the 18 yard line.

Under the NEW rules, if a kicker kicks the ball in the endzone, you'll rarely see anybody bring it out, since a TB is now at the 25. YOUR argument is that kickers will intentionally kick the ball short of the end zone, which is possible. Though, again, if they intentionally kick the ball short of the end zone, and an average return is 23 yards, on average, the ball is going to be spotted about the same as a new TB would be (the 25 yard line). If you want to convince yourself that even a handful of kickers in the league are good enough to put the ball between the goal line and the 1 yard line 100% of the time, so that they will get a net gain, on average, of 1-2 yards on a kickoff, be my guest. There isn't any historical information to support that.

3. So that entire post was just to agree with me. If you're saying that a kick returner is typically your 3rd or 4th best receiver or a reserve secondary player, then you are correct... I've said that over and over again already. An actual return specialist who does nothing on the team but return kicks is very rare and almost unheard of, thus when people are referencing guys like Keenan Reynolds as guys who will be kept solely as kick returners, I point out that teams generally don't do that. It doesn't make sense to do it.

If you recall, Jacoby basically was that player in 2014. He did nothing in terms of offensive production, and we actually cut him (not having anybody even remotely capable of doing better on our roster) for less than $1M in cap savings.

 

Already told you this discussion was over. Already said what I've had to say now like 2-3 times over. None of your points convince me to alter my course of thinking on these subjects. You completely ignore points I make and then make other arguments to repeat yourself essentially. Now if you want to make another post just for the "last word" factor, go for it. Just don't take my lack of any future responses for me agreeing with you.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Here's my go at it. Granted theres always some shock we never see coming, and some person we all think that's safe who gets cut:

QB - Flacco, Mallett (2)

RB - Forsett, Buck, Dixon, Juice (4)

TE - Watson, Gillmore, Maxx, Pitta (4)

WR - SS, Aiken, Perriman, Wallace, Camp, Moore (6)

OL - Monroe, Stanley, Urschel, Yanda, Wagner, Jensen, Lewis, Wesley (8)

 

NT - Williams, Davis (2)

DT - Jernigan, Henry (2)

DE - Urban, Guy, Kaufusi (3)

OLB - Suggs, Doom, Smith, Correa, Judon/Ochi (5)

MLB - Mosley, Orr, McClellan (3)

CB - Jimmy, Wright, Young, Powers, Arrington, Davis (6)

S - Weddle, Webb, Lewis, Brooks, Onwuasor* (5)

 

SP - Tucker, Koch, Cox (3)

 

*Hybrid safety, MLB

 

Couple of these guys will definitely get the IR designation which will make it easier. My bubble players are: Butler (wr), Richardson (rb), Reynolds (wr), Elam (ss), Ochi (olb).

Last guys in were: Pitta (te), Juice (fb), Wesley (ot), 

 

I have a feeling about Onwuasor. Guy generates turnovers and has the size/athleticism to be that safety/lb hybrid we want. Really like him though its a long shot -- but hes my UDFA pick to make the team. Ochi is a close 2nd there... i something happens to Judon, Z Smith or Correa i think hes a shoe in.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

On 5/16/2016 at 11:59 AM, EdTheMythicalOne said:

I didn't include a practice squad roster and my total roster count of people I named is only about 50 out of 53. Those last three spots can come down to whom the Ravens want to keep extras at other positions and I named Henry there or as a possible Practice squad player. While he might be good, he's got Brandon Williams and Carl Davis ahead of him at DT on the depth chart. I also didn't include Matt Judon who could also be one of those last 3 roster spot bubble picks.

dude, dont take this harshly, you're just about the 10th person ive seen using "whom" over and over again in their posting, and using it incorrectly. It's not a replacement for "who" that sounds higher brow or more intelligent - it's literally only to be used in certain situations.

If the subject is he/she/they you use "who" every time. Even when it's him/her "who" is appropriate, but this is literally the only time you can use "whom." 

When in doubt, use "who" until you're 100% sure of the rare cases that "whom" is appropriate. Trust me, it doesnt sound more professional or intelligent.

 

**End Rant**

 

[Darhk_Raven]

15 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Here's my go at it. Granted theres always some shock we never see coming, and some person we all think that's safe who gets cut:

QB - Flacco, Mallett (2)

RB - Forsett, Buck, Dixon, Juice (4)

TE - Watson, Gillmore, Maxx, Pitta (4)

WR - SS, Aiken, Perriman, Wallace, Camp, Moore (6)

OL - Monroe, Stanley, Urschel, Yanda, Wagner, Jensen, Lewis, Wesley (8)

 

NT - Williams, Davis (2)

DT - Jernigan, Henry (2)

DE - Urban, Guy, Kaufusi (3)

OLB - Suggs, Doom, Smith, Correa, Judon/Ochi (5)

MLB - Mosley, Orr, McClellan (3)

CB - Jimmy, Wright, Young, Powers, Arrington, Davis (6)

S - Weddle, Webb, Lewis, Brooks, Onwuasor* (5)

 

SP - Tucker, Koch, Cox (3)

 

*Hybrid safety, MLB

 

Couple of these guys will definitely get the IR designation which will make it easier. My bubble players are: Butler (wr), Richardson (rb), Reynolds (wr), Elam (ss), Ochi (olb).

Last guys in were: Pitta (te), Juice (fb), Wesley (ot), 

 

I have a feeling about Onwuasor. Guy generates turnovers and has the size/athleticism to be that safety/lb hybrid we want. Really like him though its a long shot -- but hes my UDFA pick to make the team. Ochi is a close 2nd there... i something happens to Judon, Z Smith or Correa i think hes a shoe in.

I agree with you about Onwuasor, he could definitely be that hybrid player for us. So you have us cutting ties with Zuttah? 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Just now, Darhk_Raven said:

I agree with you about Onwuasor, he could definitely be that hybrid player for us. So you have us cutting ties with Zuttah? 

Zuttah could stay and Wesley stays on the PS. Idk.... just my first guess for now. If Urschel out plays him I could see him gone bc he would free up ~$3-4m in cap space that could be used to extend B Williams... 

[Darhk_Raven]

2 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Zuttah could stay and Wesley stays on the PS. Idk.... just my first guess for now. If Urschel out plays him I could see him gone bc he would free up ~$3-4m in cap space that could be used to extend B Williams... 

I understand what you're saying. You could easily come up with a scenario where it's either him or Monroe that gets cut to save money to extend Williams.