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IceUpSon89

My Current Guess At The Ravens 53-Man Roster (Merged)

524 posts in this topic

What is the deadcap vs cap savings of cutting

- FS Lewis.

- CB Arrington

- DE Urban 

 

Do you guys have a site where I can find that info. some battle won't be won on the field but on the papers. $$$ is everything in todays NFL if you can find a young player able to give close to what the vet will give, gotta cut some money.

 

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10 minutes ago, KBoum said:

What is the deadcap vs cap savings of cutting

- FS Lewis.

- CB Arrington

- DE Urban 

 

Do you guys have a site where I can find that info. some battle won't be won on the field but on the papers. $$$ is everything in todays NFL if you can find a young player able to give close to what the vet will give, gotta cut some money.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/cap/2016/

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/baltimore-ravens/ - post June 1st showing here

Edited by allblackraven
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9 minutes ago, KBoum said:

What is the deadcap vs cap savings of cutting

- FS Lewis.

- CB Arrington

- DE Urban 

 

Do you guys have a site where I can find that info. some battle won't be won on the field but on the papers. $$$ is everything in todays NFL if you can find a young player able to give close to what the vet will give, gotta cut some money.

 

You should check overthecap.com .

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thanks guys

seeing that is kinda scary for Forsett... 700k deadcap.. 3M savings if cut during training camp. if Allen/Richardson/Dixon  can do the job, the only vet might be gone.

 

K. Lewis might be cut as well 1,4 M savings

 

Matt Elam deadcap vs savings isn't so big so they'll probably  keep him 1 more year. same with Arrington.

Edited by KBoum
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Just want to archive my prediction.

QB: Flacco, Mallett (2)

RB/FB: Forsett, Allen, Dixon, Richardson, Jusczyk (5)

WR: Smith, Perriman, Wallace, Aiken, Moore, Reynolds (6)

TE: Watson, Gillmore, Williams, Waller, Pitta (5)

OL: Wagner, Stanley, Monroe, Yanda, Zuttah, Urschel, Jensen, Lewis (8)

Total offense: 26

DL: Williams, Jernigan, Davis, Henry, Guy, Kaufusi, Urban (7)

LB: Suggs, Dumervil, Smith, Correa, Mosley, Orr, Brown (7)

CB: Smith, Davis, Wright, Arrington, Young, Webb (6)

S: Weddle, Lewis, Brooks, Elam, (4)

Total defense: 24

ST: Tucker, Koch, Cox (3)

 

 

Edited by 808Blackbirds
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2 hours ago, rmw10 said:

What if I told you that you had 54?

I doubt it, but if there are then I would petition for all NFL teams carrying 54 instead of 53.

 

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19 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

. Then again, this is a contract year for both Jensen and Wagner, I believe. I know Wagner. I'm not sure they'll like it much getting bumped in a contract year. I understand you can't build a roster like that but it's something Ozzie must consider. 

 

It is a contract year for Jensen.  Last year as an ERFA.  He will be a RFA next year. 

Sitting either he or Wagner this year would definetly be a tough thing to do.  I think the guy on the ropes is really Monroe.  Our new LT is going to have to prove himself to unseat any veteran.  i understand the politics and $$$ of a first round pick and the expectations....it kinda goes without saying. 

I look forward to the competition that will occur.  Man vs. Man.....may the best man win!

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I dont want to lose Camp or Talliferro until we have seen what both can do, healthy. I have this bad feeling that if we either one go its gonna come back and bite us in the backside. Remember we lose some veterans this year and there is always the Practice Squad. Gotta fine a way to keep these two in my opinion.

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On 3 May 2016 at 5:51 AM, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Guess I should reformat mine so that it is easier to look at quickly: PS = Practice Squad

2: QB: Joe Flacco, Ryan Mallet (PS: 1: Jerrod Johnson)

3: RB: Justin Forsett, Javorius Allen, Kenneth Dixon (PS: 1: Trent Richardson)

1: FB: Kyle Juszczyk

7: WR: Steve Smith Sr., Breshard Perriman, Mike Wallace, Kamar Aiken, Chris Moore, Kaelin Clay (KR/PR), Daniel Brown (PS: 1: Keenan Reynolds)

4: TE: Ben Watson, Crockett Gillmore, Maxx Williams, Darren Waller (most teams keep 4 TE's but only 3 active. Since we'll use Waller on ST I think we keep 4)

7: OL: Eugene Monroe, Ronnie Stanley, Rick Wagner, Jeremy Zuttah, Marshal Yanda, Ryan Jensen, John Urschel (PS: 3: Alex Lewis, Matt Skura, Anthony Fabiano/Stephan Nembot/DeOndre Wesley)

6: DL: Brandon Williams, Timmy Jernigan, Carl Davis, Brent Urban, Lawrence Guy, Bronson Kaufusi (PS: 1: Willie Henry)

8: LB: C.J. Mosley, Zach Orr, Albert McClellan, Arthur Brown, Elvis Dumervil, Terrell Suggs, Kamalei Correa, Za'Darius Smith (PS: 1: Matt Judon)

9: DB: Jimmy Smith, Shareece Wright, Kyle Arrington, Tavon Young, Will Davis, Eric Weddle, Lardarius Webb, Anthony Levine, Nick Perry (PS: 1: Maurice Canaday)

3: ST: Justin Tucker (K), Sam Koch (P), Morgan Cox (LS)

That leaves 3 open roster spots and 1 open practice squad spot. A lot could happen with them. This is the thinking behind my 1st draft anyway but I like what  @rmw10 had to say about Butler making it over Daniel Brown. I could see Henry and Judon taking two of the remaining roster spots and Elam clinging to life with the last one, and then that would leave 3 open slots on the practice squad.

 

Judon, Henry, Lewis, Reynolds will not make it to the practice squad that is why they will either make it on the roster or injured reserve - they are too interesting for other teams not to claim on waivers

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Offense (24)

QB: Flacco, Mallet (2)

RB: Forsett, Richardson, Allen, Dixon (4)

FB: Juszczyk (1)

WR: Wallace, SSS, Perriman, Aiken, Moore, Reynolds (6)

TE: Watson, Williams, Gillmore (3)

OL: Stanley, Wagner, Yanda, Zuttah, Jensen, Urschel, Lewis, Nembot (8)

 

Defense (26)

DL: Williams, Jernigan, Kaufusi, Davis, Guy, Henry (6)

OLB: Suggs, Dumervil, Correa, Z.Smith, Judon, Ochi (6)

ILB: Mosley, Orr, McClellan, Brown (4)

CB: Smith, Wright, Davis, Young, Canady (5)

S: Weddle, Webb, Levine, Brooks, Lewis (5)

 

ST: Tucker, Koch, Cox (3)

 

A couple things. If Richardson is motivated and decides to really tear it up in training camp and has a good preseason, it will be hard to cut him. I have 4 running backs making the team just because I think Forsett will hang around one more year to mentor the guys. I have 3 tight ends because as much as I love Pitta, I don't think he's going to be able to return from 2 hip dislocation/fractures. I have Monroe not making the team and Nembot becoming 1 of 2 UDFAs to make the team. I think Monroe gets traded before the season.

 

I have 6 OLBs making the team because I think Judon and Ochi will impress. And if you think about it, we will need that many LBs if Suggs and/or Dumervil decide to retire next year. I have Arthur Brown making the team. I think Orr and Brown will be swapped in and out similar to what McClain and Ellerbe used to do next to Lewis. I have 5 CBs and 5 Safeties. Levine can play CB if need be. He wasn't really that bad last time he switched to CB. I don't have Elam making the team. If Young, Canady, Ochi and others can prove they're better on special teams, that might make Elam expendable.

 

Of course this prediction is very early. There are gonna be training camp cuts and we know Ozzie loves those.

Edited by RobFuseRaven
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On 5/2/2016 at 6:13 PM, Cville-Raven said:

Assuming I counted right I think the 53 will look something similar to this

QB: Flacco, Mallet

RB/FB: Forsett, Dixon, Allen, Juice

WR: Smith Sr., Perriman, Wallace, Aiken, Moore, Camp or Reynolds

TE: Watson, Williams, Gillmore, Pitta

OL: Stanley, Wagner, Yanda, Jensen,Urschel, Zuttah, Lewis, Wesley

 

DL: Williams, Jernigan, Davis, Kaufusi, Guy, Henry 

OLB: Suggs, Dumervil, Correa, Smith, Judon

ILB: Mosely, Orr, Mclellan, FA or Brown

CB: Smith, Wright, Young, Davis, Arrington, FA

S: Weddle, Webb, Levine, Brooks, Elam

ST: Tucker, Koch, Cox

This is probably exactly what its going to be when time comes.

It's just so saddening watching so many RBs go, Like LT who had a really nice rookie year and then sat out one year never knowing his full potential, and then Trent Richardson whose made a really strong push to stay NFL and he seems really dedicated even though I never really liked this RB, and terrance west who everyone liked for 2014 draft I always thought he did great in cleveland even though he clearly wanted out of there 

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  • Offense - 25

    (2)QB: Joe Flacco / Ryan Mallet

    (4)RB/FB: Justin Forsett / Buck Allen / Kenneth Dixon / Kyle Juszczyk

    (7)WR: Steve Smith Sr / Mike Wallace / Kamar Aiken / Breshad Perriman / Chris  Moore / Mike Campanaro / Keenan Reynolds

    (4)TE: Ben Watson / Crocket Gillmore / Maxx Williams / Darren Waller

    (8)OL: Eugene Monroe / Ronnie Stanley / Marshal Yanda / Rick Wagner / Jeremy Zuttah /  Ryan Jensen / John Urshel / Alex Lewis

    Defense - 25

    (6)DL: Brandon Williams / Timmy Jernigan / Carl Davis / Bronson Kaufusi / Brent Urban / Willie Henry 

    (5)OLB: Terrell Suggs / Elvis Dumervil / Za'Darius Smith / Kamalei Correa / Matt Judon 

    (4)ILB: CJ Mosley / Arthur Brown / Albert McClellan / Zach Orr

    (5)CB: Jimmy Smith / Shareece Wright / Will Davis / Tavon Young / Jerroud Powers

    (5)S: Eric Weddle / Lardarius Webb / Terrence Brooks / Anthony Levine / Matt Elam 

    ST - 3

    (3)ST: Justin Tucker / Sam Koch / Morgan Cox

    PS: Patrick Onwuasor / Matt Skura / Kaelin Klay / Maurice Canady / Jarrell Broxton / Jeremy Butler / Nembot
     

     

Edited by elemento
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The only reason why I make the predictions I did is because the Ravens tend to favor their draft picks and sometimes UDFA's over veterans they brought in or guys whom they drafted years ago and just haven't shown anything for various reasons.

As much as I like Taliafero and Campanaro; they've been beset by injuries every season they've been on the team. Doesn't matter how much talent you've got if you can't get on the field to use it. They will both have to remain healthy and show big things in pre season to keep their spots.

DL/OLB will be a tough spot to make the team. There are a lot of talented young guys and not enough positions to go around. I see a lot of names going to the PS here.

I think the team will ultimately cut Monroe, especially if they see good things out of Stanley.

Injuries will also have a huge affect on the roster and how it shakes out. They have to trim from 90 all the way down to 53 eventually. Of course there are 10 more practice squad spots, but then you've got to get down to only 46 for game day. Sheesh!

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Looks like a few guys I think we all thought wouldn't make the roster have been cut:

WR: Chuck Jacobs: waived

HB: Terrence Magee: waived

G: Leon Brown: waived

TE: Konrad Reuland: ERFA tender withdrawn

sources:

 

 

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19 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

The only reason why I make the predictions I did is because the Ravens tend to favor their draft picks and sometimes UDFA's over veterans they brought in or guys whom they drafted years ago and just haven't shown anything for various reasons.

As much as I like Taliafero and Campanaro; they've been beset by injuries every season they've been on the team. Doesn't matter how much talent you've got if you can't get on the field to use it. They will both have to remain healthy and show big things in pre season to keep their spots.

DL/OLB will be a tough spot to make the team. There are a lot of talented young guys and not enough positions to go around. I see a lot of names going to the PS here.

I think the team will ultimately cut Monroe, especially if they see good things out of Stanley.

Injuries will also have a huge affect on the roster and how it shakes out. They have to trim from 90 all the way down to 53 eventually. Of course there are 10 more practice squad spots, but then you've got to get down to only 46 for game day. Sheesh!

I cant see a world in which cutting Monroe is the smart move.  Even if he gets beaten out as the starter there is no way he is not getting kept for depth.  Maybe if someone offers a really good trade but other then that I would keep Monroe without hesitation.

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21 hours ago, Adreme said:

I cant see a world in which cutting Monroe is the smart move.  Even if he gets beaten out as the starter there is no way he is not getting kept for depth.  Maybe if someone offers a really good trade but other then that I would keep Monroe without hesitation.

You don't spend several million on a swing tackle. Nobody is going to offer anything in trade for him because of the salary he's got attached to him and the injury history. If Stanley is what he's supposed to be we've got plenty of other bodies in camp to provide depth. Cutting him makes all the sense in the world after the June 1st cut off date, especially if it helps you pick up a piece elsewhere.

Edited by EdTheMythicalOne
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(2) QB - Flacco, Mallet

(3) RB - Forsette, Allen, Dixon

(1) FB - Juszczyk

(3) TE - Watson, Gillmore, Williams

(7) WR - Smith, Wallace, Perriman, Aiken, Moore, Matthews, Campanaro

(8) OL - Monroe, Stanley, Zuttah, Yanda, Wagner, Jenson, Urschel, Lewis

(4) DT - Williams, Jernigan, Davis, Henry

(3) DE - Guy, Kaufusi, Urban

(4) ILB - Mosley, Orr, McClellan, Brown

(5) OLB - Suggs, Dumerville, Correa, Smith, Judon

(5) CB - Smith, Wright, Davis, Young, Arrington

(2) FS - Weddle, Levine

(2) SS - Webb, Brooks

(3) ST - Tucker, Koch, Cox

(1) 53rd Man - Ochi

 

IR/S - Boyle

PS - Waller, Butler, Reynolds, Canady, Broxton, Skura, Puckett, ?, ?, ?

 

Position Battles:

West, Richardson vs. Ochi for the 53rd Man spot

Butler vs. Matthews for the 6th WR spot

Reynolds vs Campanaro for the 7th WR spot and Return duties

Elam vs. Brooks or Levine for the final S spot

Canady vs. Arrington for the 5th CB spot

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Why do we have so many people 

 

 

makes me sad

and with no space left we still have to worry about return specialist

wow this sucks 

Edited by Bandwagon
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31 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

We have "so many" because every team carries 90 in the off-season.

Obviously.... I'm talking about mainly around 5 extra people that can't fit in the 53...

Edited by Bandwagon
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4 minutes ago, Bandwagon said:

Obviously.... I'm talking about mainly around 5 extra people that can't fit in the 53...

Injuries will happen throughout camp and preseason, so that number will dwindle.

Also, not really a big fan of having a player on the roster as purely a "return specialist". Things could change with the new kickoff rules (though I doubt it), but in the past few years there really just aren't enough opportunities for kick returns for our team to have a guy on the roster specifically for that role.

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20 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

You don't spend several million on a swing tackle. Nobody is going to offer anything in trade for him because of the salary he's got attached to him and the injury history. If Stanley is what he's supposed to be we've got plenty of other bodies in camp to provide depth. Cutting him makes all the sense in the world after the July cut off date, especially if it helps you pick up a piece elsewhere.

Is there anyone available worth spending that money on?  I dont see anyone in free agency worth picking up at the moment so even in the case that he gets beat out by Stanley and is not on the field (I think the Stanley plays guard for a year is more likely personally) then all you are doing is cutting depth and making your team worse,regardless of how you feel about Monroe he is clearly better then whoever else would be backing up Stanley, so you are making your team worse to save money that you have no need for at the moment which is terrible team building.

Would he be overpaid for that role? Yes.  Does it matter? No.

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1 minute ago, Adreme said:

Is there anyone available worth spending that money on?  I dont see anyone in free agency worth picking up at the moment so even in the case that he gets beat out by Stanley and is not on the field (I think the Stanley plays guard for a year is more likely personally) then all you are doing is cutting depth and making your team worse,regardless of how you feel about Monroe he is clearly better then whoever else would be backing up Stanley, so you are making your team worse to save money that you have no need for at the moment which is terrible team building.

Would he be overpaid for that role? Yes.  Does it matter? No.

The first round of cuts haven't happened yet and teams haven't had to get to terms with their real salary cap number yet. Some decent veterans will wind up being cut because teams have drafted rookies or had a youngster waiting in the wings that they think has finally emerged and is a cheaper option than the vet that may still have 2-3 years left in the tank. It happens every year. This is why we have Dumervil and had Daryl Smith on the team. I would say Dwight Freeney is worth spending some money on depending on how our young pass rushers pan out.

Stanley probably won't play guard even though he could. He's not known for his run blocking and that is primarily what guards do. I could see him possibly moving over to RT if Ricky Wagner still looks hobbled coming back from his lisfranc injury.

Eugene Monroe is a talent if he's healthy. He's played about half of a season for the past two seasons and is making some very eyebrow raising comments on Twitter after having shoulder surgery. There is a such thing as a term and it goes like this, "Addition by subtraction." Meaning the move you made to get rid of somebody actually made the team better. This is not an example of terrible team building, this is an example of what the Ravens do every year. If you don't produce; especially if you are getting mad money, you're gone.

Overpaid is one thing, grossly overpaid and sitting on IR is another. So yeah, it does matter.

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10 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

The first round of cuts haven't happened yet and teams haven't had to get to terms with their real salary cap number yet. Some decent veterans will wind up being cut because teams have drafted rookies or had a youngster waiting in the wings that they think has finally emerged and is a cheaper option than the vet that may still have 2-3 years left in the tank. It happens every year. This is why we have Dumervil and had Daryl Smith on the team. I would say Dwight Freeney is worth spending some money on depending on how our young pass rushers pan out.

Stanley probably won't play guard even though he could. He's not known for his run blocking and that is primarily what guards do. I could see him possibly moving over to RT if Ricky Wagner still looks hobbled coming back from his lisfranc injury.

Eugene Monroe is a talent if he's healthy. He's played about half of a season for the past two seasons and is making some very eyebrow raising comments on Twitter after having shoulder surgery. There is a such thing as a term and it goes like this, "Addition by subtraction." Meaning the move you made to get rid of somebody actually made the team better. This is not an example of terrible team building, this is an example of what the Ravens do every year. If you don't produce; especially if you are getting mad money, you're gone.

Overpaid is one thing, grossly overpaid and sitting on IR is another. So yeah, it does matter.

I just looked it up to make sure but I see the Ravens as 12M over the cap right now for this year.  Assuming a little under half that goes into signing your draft picks and that you want to have about 2-3M floating around just in case which honestly leaves enough room to sign 1 minor free agent like Freeney if you want to (though I am also not sure how much he really has left in the tank).

When focusing on the pay issue though the issue is not how much he makes but how much you save by cutting him.  Cutting him saves 2M so the question is "Is he worth 2M?"  My answer to that would be yes so I would not hesitate to keep him.

A lot of people might say he is worth a June 1st cut but that just pushes the cap hit onto next year which seems like a waste when you dont want to have an needless cap hit for next year when you do not have to especially when next years cap is fairly tight but on the good note you can revisit cutting Monroe next year and it will probably be correct to do so.

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9 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Injuries will happen throughout camp and preseason, so that number will dwindle.

Also, not really a big fan of having a player on the roster as purely a "return specialist". Things could change with the new kickoff rules (though I doubt it), but in the past few years there really just aren't enough opportunities for kick returns for our team to have a guy on the roster specifically for that role.

you still have punt returns.

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9 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

you still have punt returns.

Sort of. Actual opportunities to return punts are becoming fewer and far between. We've been right at about 40 punt returns per season the last three years, and that's excluding touchbacks and fair catches.

So you're talking 2-3 opportunities a game at best. With only 46 guys playing a week, its kind of hard to justify a specialist like that, which is why its pretty rare for teams to have one.

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16 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Sort of. Actual opportunities to return punts are becoming fewer and far between. We've been right at about 40 punt returns per season the last three years, and that's excluding touchbacks and fair catches.

So you're talking 2-3 opportunities a game at best. With only 46 guys playing a week, its kind of hard to justify a specialist like that, which is why its pretty rare for teams to have one.

It is a dual-edged sword. At times the Ravens had Ed Reed returning punts, Lardarius Webb, and when Jacoby Jones was here and also our #2 WR he was returning punts and kicks. In Arizona they had Patrick Peterson returning kicks and punts. But these guys are front line starters, or close enough to it, that you don't want to risk losing them to injury on a kick or punt return.

In a perfect world the returner you have would also be perhaps a nickel or dime corner, a second or maybe third RB, a slot or fourth receiver. Somebody you can have step in and offer you something on the field other than the ability to return kicks and punts. Kaelin Clay got the job last season and did see some action as a receiver, but I am not so sure the Ravens think he's enough of a talent as a receiver. We've got Campanaro in house and if he was healthy I don't think Clay would have even been on the team. They drafted Keenan Reynolds.

All this being said, the war of field position is a big one and if you have a serious weapon in the return game like a Devin Hester then you make some exceptions.

I also think the new rule of a touchback giving you 25 yards will have the opposite action of what was intended. I think kickers will intentionally chip the kick short as to not give up the free 25 yards.

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7 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

It is a dual-edged sword. At times the Ravens had Ed Reed returning punts, Lardarius Webb, and when Jacoby Jones was here and also our #2 WR he was returning punts and kicks. In Arizona they had Patrick Peterson returning kicks and punts. But these guys are front line starters, or close enough to it, that you don't want to risk losing them to injury on a kick or punt return.

In a perfect world the returner you have would also be perhaps a nickel or dime corner, a second or maybe third RB, a slot or fourth receiver. Somebody you can have step in and offer you something on the field other than the ability to return kicks and punts. Kaelin Clay got the job last season and did see some action as a receiver, but I am not so sure the Ravens think he's enough of a talent as a receiver. We've got Campanaro in house and if he was healthy I don't think Clay would have even been on the team. They drafted Keenan Reynolds.

All this being said, the war of field position is a big one and if you have a serious weapon in the return game like a Devin Hester then you make some exceptions.

I also think the new rule of a touchback giving you 25 yards will have the opposite action of what was intended. I think kickers will intentionally chip the kick short as to not give up the free 25 yards.

Well, for punts, you're looking at a large number of punts being either not returned at all or simple fair catches, so that's part of the reason why I find punt returners to be overvalued in terms of a "need". You really don't need a great ST (kick returner, kick coverage, etc.) in order to win in this league... you just can't suck at it. And there's no reason for me to believe that we will suck at it, regardless of who is back there. As long as they're making smart decisions (when to field, when to drop, etc.), I could really care less if we have an "explosive" returner on this team or not. Its a luxury item, not a need item.

I get the "we don't want a stud player getting injured" concept, except I don't really buy it, because I can't recall many, if any, instances where a key player like a Patrick Peterson or an Ed Reed was actually significantly injured returning a kick. The majority of ST injuries occur to players who are being blocked or engaging, not to the people actually making the returns. So while I agree there's risk there, if that's the only guy I trust back to to field the punt properly, I'm taking that risk, because the injury risk isn't nearly as great as the risk of a muffed or botched punt in my opinion.

Time will tell what happens with the new kickoff rules. My gut thinks that its a bit of a gamble for kickers to intentionally kick short, because by doing so, they're probably going to end up kicking to about the 5-10 yard line everytime, which puts the return range at about the same level as it was when the ball was coming out to the 20. Getting a 20 yard return on a kickoff isn't exactly that difficult.

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