My Current Guess At The Ravens 53-Man Roster (Merged)

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

Some of them also might not play ST near as much as all of them are looking to have relatively large roles on defense going forward.

I think James Harrison was a full time ST player and defensive player when he won DPOY, so it can be done.

[BmoreBird22]

2 hours ago, Willbacker said:

It does seem like it comes down to a couple of slots and looking at most of the picks they're relatively the same. @BmoreBird22 is spot on imo except I'd maybe try to ps Canady and replace him with Price. Buck is also making it cuz of Dixon's injury.

One thing Ive noticed during the preseason games tho is on SpTeams Ive seen the likes of Daniel Brown,Beyer,A Brown and Reynolds playing exclusively on every kickoff and punt. Do you guys think that this has any bearing at all on the makeup of the roster?

I've gone way back and forth on whether to include Price or Canady. Without knowing the extent of his injury, I went with the draft pick. 

I saw someone suggest he may go to IR, but phantom IR hasn't worked out for the Ravens in the past.

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I think James Harrison was a full time ST player and defensive player when he won DPOY, so it can be done.

Oh absolutely.  Not saying it can't be done, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's a consideration.  I'd still expect to see all of those guys out there on ST, but you might not see them on every single rep.

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, rmw10 said:

Oh absolutely.  Not saying it can't be done, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's a consideration.  I'd still expect to see all of those guys out there on ST, but you might not see them on every single rep.

For me, I don't find it to be a big deal because you may be out there forike 15 snaps of ST on a play that lasts no more than 10 seconds. 

I don't know why you'd pull your aces from those units 

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I've gone way back and forth on whether to include Price or Canady. Without knowing the extent of his injury, I went with the draft pick. 

I saw someone suggest he may go to IR, but phantom IR hasn't worked out for the Ravens in the past.

The good thing about Canady is that he's back at practice.  He might be a rare one where preseason game 4 actually matters, as he hasn't had much time on the field to this point.  Game 2 was impressive but that was only 11 snaps before he went off the field.

[rmw10]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

For me, I don't find it to be a big deal because you may be out there forike 15 snaps of ST on a play that lasts no more than 10 seconds. 

I don't know why you'd pull your aces from those units 

For sure.  I personally don't care, but I know in the past that guys like Jameel McClain and Dannell Ellerbe played less and less ST as they moved up the ladder on defense.

[BmoreBird22]

4 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

For sure.  I personally don't care, but I know in the past that guys like Jameel McClain and Dannell Ellerbe played less and less ST as they moved up the ladder on defense.

Not a big fan of it personally, but we'll see how it factors in. I'd hate to think someone like Art Brown take a roster spot from someone like Butler

[rmw10]

3 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Not a big fan of it personally, but we'll see how it factors in. I'd hate to think someone like Art Brown take a roster spot from someone like Butler

I still have Brown out, for what it's worth. Just not willing to consider that a sure thing since he still is getting that ST time. 

[BmoreBird22]

3 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I still have Brown out, for what it's worth. Just not willing to consider that a sure thing since he still is getting that ST time. 

I have him out because guys like McClellan, Levine, and Juice can still play ST.

Also, I think that's a reason to bring Elam back. I noticed he was on first team units.

[rmw10]

11 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I have him out because guys like McClellan, Levine, and Juice can still play ST.

Also, I think that's a reason to bring Elam back. I noticed he was on first team units.

It might sound crazy, but I actually think Brown could crack it at ILB.  Correa seems to be playing mostly outside now, and I'm not sure I've ever really considered Levine as a true ILBer, at least not enough to be the #3 there.

[Sami84]

4 hours ago, rmw10 said:

Let's do one final prediction before the "final" roster on Saturday.

Quarterback:
In (2): Joe Flacco, Ryan Mallett
Out (2): Josh Johnson, Jerrod Johnson

Again, I don't think there's much question.  Mallett's performance on Saturday night should have ended all doubt that he wasn't going to be on this roster.  Josh Johnson has done a commendable job all offseason, but I think you'll see him get a bulk of the snaps on Thursday night to allow him to possibly play into a job elsewhere.

Running Back:
In (5): Justin Forsett, Terrance West, Kenneth Dixon, Buck Allen, Kyle Juszczyk
PUP (1): Lorenzo Taliaferro
Out (1): Stephen Houston

I didn't think it was going to happen originally, but I think Buck was in serious danger before Dixon got hurt.  The injury probably saves his spot for the time being.  I fully expect West and Dixon to take over the bulk of the carries as the season goes on.  Taliaferro will stick on PUP in case we have a need midseason.

Wide Receiver:
In (7): Steve Smith, Kamar Aiken, Mike Wallace, Breshad Perriman, Chris Moore, Michael Campanaro, Jeremy Butler
Bubble (1): Keenan Reynolds
Out (4): Chris Matthews, Chuck Jacobs, Dobson Collins, Darius White

Jeremy Butler simply played his way onto the roster, and I don't see any way you can cut him at this point.  We may not really need 7, but it could also really help if we want to ease Steve and Breshad back into it.  Keenan Reynolds remains on my bubble simply because I believe coaches really do love him.  I think he's much more on the side of being cut, though.

Tight End:
In (3): Crockett Gillmore, Dennis Pitta, Maxx Williams
Bubble (1): Daniel Brown
IR (1): Ben Watson
Susp. (2): Darren Waller, Nick Boyle

This position got interesting with Watson's injury, as Pitta and Williams remain out.  It sounds like Williams and Pitta should both be back by week 1, but should they not, Daniel Brown may sneak his way on.  So much for all of that depth, right?  Waller should get a roster spot upon his return from suspension.

Offensive Line:
In (8): Ronnie Stanley, Alex Lewis, Jeremy Zuttah, Marshal Yanda, Rick Wagner, John Urschel, Ryan Jensen, De'Ondre Wesley
Bubble (2): Vlad Ducasse, James Hurst
Out (5): Blaine Clausell, Stephane Nembot, Matt Skura, Anthony Fabiano, Jarell Broxton

I think the only real question here right now is who gets the 8th OL spot.  I opted for Wesley at this point since I'm going to guess that Lewis will open at LG in week 1, and I think they might want a true backup T for the time being.  It's a coin flip between Ducasse and Wesley for me, though.  It really could go either way.  I can't completely rule out Hurst either, though.

Defensive Line:
In (6): Brandon Williams, Timmy Jernigan, Lawrence Guy, Carl Davis, Brent Urban, Willie Henry
Bubble (2): Kapron Lewis-Moore, Michael Pierce
Out (1): Trevon Coley
IR (1): Bronson Kaufusi

I think we'd really like to keep a 7th here as Henry is in need of some development, but the numbers just don't allow.  If a need arises, I'm going to guess the team feels confident that they could pick someone up to plug in like they've done so often in the past.  I think they'd really like Pierce to clear waivers and go the practice squad, but I think a team could value a NT enough to claim him.

Inside Linebacker:
In (4): CJ Mosley, Zach Orr, Kamalei Correa, Anthony Levine
Bubble (1): Arthur Brown
Out (2): Patrick Onwuasor, Kavell Conner

Don't overlook Arthur Brown simply due to the numbers.  Correa has been playing a bit more outside as the preseason went along, and Levine still isn't a traditional ILB.  Arthur could stick due to a lack of true ILB depth.  I still have him out for now, but he's also on the 1st team ST unit so he could be a surprise to some.

Outside Linebacker:
In (6): Terrell Suggs, Elvis Dumervil, Albert McClellan, Za'Darius Smith, Matt Judon, Chris Carter
Out (3): Brennen Beyer, Victor Ochi, Mario Ojemudia

Chris Carter may not have done much since the 1st preseason game, but he looks like a mainstay on ST and I think that could give him a roster spot.  He's another with the versatility to play ILB which could help us go a little lighter there.  Ochi could come down with an "injury" and take a year off.

Cornerback:
In (5): Jimmy Smith, Shareece Wright, Tavon Young, Will Davis, Jerraud Powers
Bubble (2): Sheldon Price, Maurice Canady
Out (2): Kyle Arrington, Carrington Byndom

I really wanted to go 6 here, but this was another time where I had to step back and consider what I think the Ravens will do.  We've seen so little of Canady because he's been injured that I'm not sure he makes it.  Price has been a decent option, but I'm not sure he's done enough to make it.  Levine being versatile could cost them jobs, but I wouldn't be shocked at all to see either of them make it.  They represent #54 and #55 on my roster solely because they are CBs.

Safety:
In (4): Eric Weddle, Lardarius Webb, Kendrick Lewis, Terrence Brooks
Out (2): Matt Elam, Julian Wilson

It's a shame Elam got hurt since he seemed to be doing well, but can't play if you're hurt.  That likely saved Brooks, although he didn't play well on Saturday.  Kendrick Lewis is interesting as he hasn't practiced in a couple of weeks, so we'll see how that plays out.

Special Teams:
In (3): Justin Tucker, Sam Koch, Morgan Cox
Out (1): Wil Lutz

Another year of no comments here.

1

I think sheldon price and Pierce have earned their spots in the 53. I'd actually cut carl davis and I would have cut buck allen. I just don't see any potential in them. they well and truely have shown nothing in the way of improvement.

[rmw10]

8 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

I think sheldon price and Pierce have earned their spots in the 53. I'd actually cut carl davis and I would have cut buck allen. I just don't see any potential in them. they well and truely have shown nothing in the way of improvement.

I don't disagree entirely.  I really like what Pierce has shown, but I just don't see a way on the roster for him right now.  Although I realize you have major disdain for Carl Davis and I won't take it that far, I will say that I haven't been impressed by him.  He started out strong last year and never really got better.  With that being said, I'd be very surprised if we gave up on a 3rd round pick that quickly.

[Sami84]

4 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I don't disagree entirely.  I really like what Pierce has shown, but I just don't see a way on the roster for him right now.  Although I realize you have major disdain for Carl Davis and I won't take it that far, I will say that I haven't been impressed by him.  He started out strong last year and never really got better.  With that being said, I'd be very surprised if we gave up on a 3rd round pick that quickly.

 

for me, i really think this thinking about picks being given more chances simply because they were drafted higher is unhealthy. After a year, if an undrafted player is showing more than a 3rd rounder you cut the 3rd rounder. It's not about where you're drafted, it's about what you are showing.

[GrimCoconut]

27 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

It might sound crazy, but I actually think Brown could crack it at ILB.  Correa seems to be playing mostly outside now, and I'm not sure I've ever really considered Levine as a true ILBer, at least not enough to be the #3 there.

I don't think it's that crazy. McClellan could play inside, so don't discount that. McClellan may have replaced Upshaw but we'll see how much 

6 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I don't disagree entirely.  I really like what Pierce has shown, but I just don't see a way on the roster for him right now.  Although I realize you have major disdain for Carl Davis and I won't take it that far, I will say that I haven't been impressed by him.  He started out strong last year and never really got better.  With that being said, I'd be very surprised if we gave up on a 3rd round pick that quickly.

I really think Pierce makes the team. It's just a hunch but I think it happens 

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, Sami84 said:

for me, i really think this thinking about picks being given more chances simply because they were drafted higher is unhealthy. After a year, if an undrafted player is showing more than a 3rd rounder you cut the 3rd rounder. It's not about where you're drafted, it's about what you are showing.

Again, I don't entirely disagree with that notion.  However, the Ravens clearly though highly enough of Davis to take him in the 3rd round.  I can't imagine they think he's a finished product after only 1 year.

[rmcjacket23]

5 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

for me, i really think this thinking about picks being given more chances simply because they were drafted higher is unhealthy. After a year, if an undrafted player is showing more than a 3rd rounder you cut the 3rd rounder. It's not about where you're drafted, it's about what you are showing.

Too shortsighted. You're not going to know nearly enough about either player after a season and a half to make that sort of assessment.

If we cut everybody who got outplayed in camp, we'd have guys like Marlon Brown instead of Kamar Aiken. Plenty of instances where those kinds of decisions would backfire long term in a BIG way.

[Sami84]

10 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Too shortsighted. You're not going to know nearly enough about either player after a season and a half to make that sort of assessment.

If we cut everybody who got outplayed in camp, we'd have guys like Marlon Brown instead of Kamar Aiken. Plenty of instances where those kinds of decisions would backfire long term in a BIG way.

 

who said Aiken was ever outplayed by brown? He wasn't...aiken wasnt even on the team in 2013 and he actually took browns place.

[rmcjacket23]

14 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

who said Aiken was ever outplayed by brown? He wasn't...aiken wasnt even on the team in 2013 and he actually took browns place.

Perhaps Aiken is a poor example for the name in it of itself, but you missed the point. Do you not see at all how its possible that choosing an UDFA over a higher-end draft pick based on literally one training camp may cause a long term problem?

[Sami84]

56 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Perhaps Aiken is a poor example for the name in it of itself, but you missed the point. Do you not see at all how its possible that choosing an UDFA over a higher-end draft pick based on literally one training camp may cause a long term problem?

 

plenty of 3rd round picks have flopped..sometimes players are over evaluated and some are under evaluated. sometimes the eye test has to win over the hype test.

[rmcjacket23]

11 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

plenty of 3rd round picks have flopped..sometimes players are over evaluated and some are under evaluated. sometimes the eye test has to win over the hype test.

That's great. But formulating the "eye test" (which is generally a poor way to do things, given your eyes lie to you and they often don't know what they are seeing) based on a few weeks of practices isn't exactly a great way to do that.

Eye test can certainly lead to you picking the inferior player. 

And as a general practice, the higher the round pick, the lower the chance of "flopping". This has been proven historically.

Edited August 29, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, Sami84 said:

who said Aiken was ever outplayed by brown? He wasn't...aiken wasnt even on the team in 2013 and he actually took browns place.

alright then, we'd have had omar brown in the 53 in stead of literally any other db

[BmoreBird22]

3 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

alright then, we'd have had omar brown in the 53 in stead of literally any other db

Well, Sami was actually a HUGE advocate for Omar Brown.

[Willbacker]

2 hours ago, rmw10 said:

Again, I don't entirely disagree with that notion.  However, the Ravens clearly though highly enough of Davis to take him in the 3rd round.  I can't imagine they think he's a finished product after only 1 year.

Harbs did make the famous quote about not keeping potential but the best 53. Pierce to me just seems like a more bonafide NT than Davis. What do we do if Williams does go down? Btw I'm thinking we keeping Davis over Pierce with Pierce going to ps

 

29 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

That's great. But formulating the "eye test" (which is generally a poor way to do things, given your eyes lie to you and they often don't know what they are seeing) based on a few weeks of practices isn't exactly a great way to do that.

Eye test can certainly lead to you picking the inferior player. 

And as a general practice, the higher the round pick, the lower the chance of "flopping". This has been proven historically.

We've seen 1st rounders(and overall 1st rd picks) flop tremendously while undrafted players have made the HOF. Its not the rule of thumb but it happens. And I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "eye test" but players are evaluated mainly using this form of test.

[rmcjacket23]

55 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

Harbs did make the famous quote about not keeping potential but the best 53. Pierce to me just seems like a more bonafide NT than Davis. What do we do if Williams does go down? Btw I'm thinking we keeping Davis over Pierce with Pierce going to ps

 

We've seen 1st rounders(and overall 1st rd picks) flop tremendously while undrafted players have made the HOF. Its not the rule of thumb but it happens. And I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "eye test" but players are evaluated mainly using this form of test.

Yes, I know this. That's not the point. The hierarchy, historically, works like this:

1st rounders perform better than 2nd rounders

2nd rounders perform better than 3rd rounders

Rinse repeat.

If you were to plot all draft picks over history and put them on a curve based on production, it would be a downward sloping line starting from 1st rounders down to UDFAs.

This is called a generalization. It doesn't mean that 100% of players will fall under these hierarchies, but as a rule of thumb, your better players are 1st rounders, then 2nd rounders, then 3rd rounders, etc.

As for the "eye test", I'm fine with using the eye test... as long as you're a person who is in the business of talent evaluation. Fans are pretty much not qualified to be in that business at all. So when I hear fans referencing their own personal "eye tests" as a matter of evaluation, I treat it as like 1/10th of a grain of salt, because from what I know about a lot of fans, their eyes don't have any idea what they're looking at.

As I tell everybody, the coaching staff sees 100% of the things you see and 100% of the things you don't see. So when fans claim they see something, coaches already saw it and processed it already. There isn't any information fans have as talent evaluators that coaches and FO personnel don't.

Edited August 29, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[allblackraven]

I take it full pressers for Butler and Levine today were an early announcement and a reward for offseason performance. Well deserved, congrats to both of them.

[rossihunter2]

2 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

I take it full pressers for Butler and Levine today were an early announcement and a reward for offseason performance. Well deserved, congrats to both of them.

it would be pretty cruel to cut them after that lol

[rmw10]

25 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

I take it full pressers for Butler and Levine today were an early announcement and a reward for offseason performance. Well deserved, congrats to both of them.

Usually a pretty good sign this close to the season. I think one of the beat guys, maybe Aaron Wilson, alluded to that a couple of years back. 

[Moderator 3]

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

Usually a pretty good sign this close to the season. I think one of the beat guys, maybe Aaron Wilson, alluded to that a couple of years back. 

Definitely don't want to hijack, but I miss Aaron badly.  He was the best source we ever had.

[Maryland]

12 hours ago, Sami84 said:

for me, i really think this thinking about picks being given more chances simply because they were drafted higher is unhealthy. After a year, if an undrafted player is showing more than a 3rd rounder you cut the 3rd rounder. It's not about where you're drafted, it's about what you are showing.

Since it seems like some folks are arguing against this notion a bit, I will say that cutting-ties with draft picks early in favor of a UDFA at the same position is a huge point of emphasis when the Seahawks are recruiting the UDFA market; they give agents this brochure full of stats illustrating that they give UDFAs a fair chance. There is something to be gained down the line by keeping UDFAs over recent draft picks: it encourages more high-end UDFAs to sign with you in the future because it shows you'll give them a chance. 

Regarding the specific Pierce vs. Carl Davis debate, I would not give up on Davis just yet, since I still think there is some potential there (mostly just based on talent if the work ethic ever comes around). Davis seems like can play 3-tech or NT, whereas Pierce is more of a pure, traditional 0-tech like B.Williams. They're different players. I really liked what I saw out of Pierce and will be pretty disappointed if they cut him. I can see why people are excited about him, especially compared to Davis who seems like he's not improving, but I wouldn't want to cut either one yet.

[kjbmore]

Just now, kjbmore said:

Any chance we cut Campanaro??

I think I recall Chris Moore fielding fielding punts or kickoffs against Detroit. 

Do we run with Butler and Moore as the last couple of receivers, ask Moore to return and go with 6? He showed great hands on that lay out snag, Butler hasn't dropped a thing either. 

I don't recall Camp having done much in PS, do we not want to show it, are we just keeping him safe?

Or do we play happy families and just keep everybody.

feel pretty stupid if we cut Butler and Camp goes down week 2 or something 

the safer play definitely feels like Butler

could we possibly start the season with Aiken, Wallace and Butler

butlers laid out TD has to be the highlight of the PS