Haunted by Missing Ramsey....

[GrimCoconut]

Wow, if we traded up for Ramsey and he has a meniscus tear with us I can't imagine the fury some members would have on that selection. 

[Cville-Raven]

53 minutes ago, JimmyBlack said:

Does anyone think that Perriman will be back on the field this season or is he the next David Reed or Travis Taylor?

Yes he will be back on the field 

Edited May 19, 2016 by Cville-Raven

[Cville-Raven]

4 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Wow, if we traded up for Ramsey and he has a meniscus tear with us I can't imagine the fury some members would have on that selection. 

It would be "I'm haunted by taking Jalen Ramsey" all over the place

Edited May 19, 2016 by Cville-Raven

[AsianRice]

Thank you Cowboys!

[Purple_City39]

It's also being reported that he's previously had microfracture surgery on the same new her just injured

[BmoreBird22]

On 5/12/2016 at 7:07 PM, JoeyFlex5 said:

We can't use a Tampa 2. We don't have the personnel for it and you need a rare type of LB to play that. If we were able to land cravens we wouldve been able to run a 34 type of Tampa 2 if Frazier wanted to be innovative. 

 

Plus, the downsides to Tampa 2 are the same as pees defense. Bend but don't break. Keep the play in front of the db's and the closer they get to the end zone the tighter the Windows get. With the right personnel though a Tampa 2 is a much more effective method than having all your dbs sitting beyond the sticks and rotating coverages and letting slot receivers run free for the first 5 yards.

Are people really saying this is a bad style of defense? Certainly worked for the Panthers.

[K-Dog]

4 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

Not yet, though I have begged for a tool that allows us to reach out and choke a poster.

I can guess a few of them...

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, JimmyBlack said:

Mods are like putting bumpers on the edge of bowling lanes.  Some of us don't seem to stay in our lanes.  I am so glad that we took Stanley over Ramsey now.

Do you think we got lucky in the order?  ....Our F.O. wanted Ramsey in the worst way, settled for Stanley and now Ramsey comes up with a bad transmission.  But was it really luck, or was something else illustrated in the scenario?

2 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

Wow, if we traded up for Ramsey and he has a meniscus tear with us I can't imagine the fury some members would have on that selection. 

I've changed my view upon Drafted and Non Drafted players that develop injuries.  The F.O. still owns those players.  You factor soundness, character and position when you draft and all developments, any contingencies are owned by your F.O.

Our F.O. wanted this guy in the worst way and we were only saved by their stinginess and lack of trust in their own analysis. It doesn't leave one with a positive feeling in any manner.

 

Edited May 20, 2016 by Danny D

[allblackraven]

5 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Now their top 2 picks have a torn meniscus. 

 

If we drafted Ramsey and Jack like everyone wanted... Just imagine.

Correction, not everyone

[redrum52]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Are people really saying this is a bad style of defense? Certainly worked for the Panthers.

They have a disgusting LB group and good enough front.  I personally hate Tampa 2.

[GrimCoconut]

2 hours ago, Danny D said:

Do you think we got lucky in the order?  ....Our F.O. wanted Ramsey in the worst way, settled for Stanley and now Ramsey comes up with a bad transmission.  But was it really luck, or was something else illustrated in the scenario?

I've changed my view upon Drafted and Non Drafted players that develop injuries.  The F.O. still owns those players.  You factor soundness, character and position when you draft and all developments, any contingencies are owned by your F.O.

Our F.O. wanted this guy in the worst way and we were only saved by their stinginess and lack of trust in their own analysis. It doesn't leave one with a positive feeling in any manner.

 

A lot of teams wanted Ramsey and a lot of pundits thought the Jaguars got the best player in the draft. Let's not make the Ravens look silly for wanting someone everyone thought would be a terrific player. 

And as for your second part, sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Are people really saying this is a bad style of defense? Certainly worked for the Panthers.

You need an extremely athletic and smart defense to run it well, it's hard to get that personnel right and that's the only real problem, Panthers had it nailed with a great 4 man front(which took a ton of investment) and an elite MLB and Josh Norman who plays off-zone incredibly well which is another hard find.

 

Ravens are still an LB and probably a future safety and corner along with a blue chip DE away from being able to execute a Tampa 2. Arthur brown would have to step up finally, tavon young would need to be legit, Brandon Williams would have to take a backseat to Willie henry who would need to be an elite interior rusher and run stuffer, jernigan would need to play at his highest level and 2 gap the run and penetrate the pass, KC would be a monster in a Tampa 2 as a will, BK would need to be able to set the edge and pressure the edge quickly and consistently, we would need an answer for strongside DE, and we would probably need to move Mosley to SAM because he isn't suited for MLB in a Tampa 2.

For us to run it properly I think it would take at least another 2 years with key players getting re-signed and others panning out.

[BmoreBird22]

10 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

You need an extremely athletic and smart defense to run it well, it's hard to get that personnel right and that's the only real problem, Panthers had it nailed with a great 4 man front(which took a ton of investment) and an elite MLB and Josh Norman who plays off-zone incredibly well which is another hard find.

I don't think it'd be all that bad for the Ravens to incorporate it. No team runs it 100% of the time, anyway, but to have it be the base defense would be fine with me. 

Mosley is a pretty ideal MLB in the Tampa 2 because he can flow sideline to sideline so effortlessly. We really dog him for his man coverage skills (seriously, corners get a break until year three, but we can't give that to Mosley..?), but he has athletic range and I've never really had an issue with his ability to cover ground in zones. He's a lot better in coverage than most people are willing to give him credit for.

You have the ideal 3T for the Tampa 2 with Jernigan. An undersized penetrator? Perfect. And Williams wouldn't take a backseat to anyone. He has a real uncanny ability to knife through the line and I almost wonder if he'd be better as a 1T penetrator. His leverage and ability to collapse the pocket are great, but for a big guy, he can really slip through some gaps. Sure, drafting someone like Kaufusi and Henry may be preparing for Williams potentially leaving next year, but for right now, he's not taking a backseat to anyone since 4-3 fronts still use a "NT". And as far as the defensive ends go, I'm not really worried with Smith, Doom, and Suggs. It's certainly a group that could use some more youth in it, but I don't really doubt the four man front.

As for the secondary, you don't need an "off man zone corner". Much like Seattle's Cover 3 scheme, you want corners who can jam their man at the line and smother them along the sideline as they drop back 10-15+ yards. It's a great scheme for opportunistic corners if they can leverage their man to the sideline and keep their eye on the ball because it creates so many more opportunities for interceptions. I know Jimmy would love this scheme and Wright has shown he's far better when using the sideline to his advantage. With the safeties, Weddle would be fine. He played a more rover type role in SD, anyway, so asking him to be able to come down and defend the line of scrimmage, bust a slot receiver over the middle, or just hold his own in zone coverage isn't going to be some huge issue. The one I'd worry about is Webb, but even then, he played well enough at the end of the season and he wasn't a huge liability. 

The only place I'd worry is at outside linebacker where the Ravens have Mosley and KC as pretty much guarantees, and I suppose you'd hope Arthur Brown could play the WILL like many expected him to in the 4-3, but the depth behind them is shaky and even expecting Brown to be a great WILL is optimistic, at best. 

 

[ALPHA]

It's times like these I'm glad Ozzie is our GM, he had enough sense to see the trade value wasn't there. Putting a premium on durability is going to look genius when Tunsil starts missing games.

[52520Andrew]

20 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

Wow, if we traded up for Ramsey and he has a meniscus tear with us I can't imagine the fury some members would have on that selection. 

It would be hilarious as well if people wanted to blame the FO on a player with pretty much no injury history(unless I am missing something) getting injured in practice. 

[52520Andrew]

18 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Are people really saying this is a bad style of defense? Certainly worked for the Panthers.

Well to be fair, the Panthers have 2 exceptional coverage LBs which was his original point on why the scheme may not be effective for us. 

[JoeyFlex5]

17 hours ago, allblackraven said:

Correction, not everyone

Lol.. I've never seen such a strong and committed 1 man bandwagon. Its admirable

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Well to be fair, the Panthers have 2 exceptional coverage LBs which was his original point on why the scheme may not be effective for us. 

Mosley has the requisite sideline to sideline ability. Sure, we don't have someone who can cover like Davis as a secondary option, but that shouldn't stop it from being an option.

[JoeyFlex5]

4 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I don't think it'd be all that bad for the Ravens to incorporate it. No team runs it 100% of the time, anyway, but to have it be the base defense would be fine with me. 

Mosley is a pretty ideal MLB in the Tampa 2 because he can flow sideline to sideline so effortlessly. We really dog him for his man coverage skills (seriously, corners get a break until year three, but we can't give that to Mosley..?), but he has athletic range and I've never really had an issue with his ability to cover ground in zones. He's a lot better in coverage than most people are willing to give him credit for.

You have the ideal 3T for the Tampa 2 with Jernigan. An undersized penetrator? Perfect. And Williams wouldn't take a backseat to anyone. He has a real uncanny ability to knife through the line and I almost wonder if he'd be better as a 1T penetrator. His leverage and ability to collapse the pocket are great, but for a big guy, he can really slip through some gaps. Sure, drafting someone like Kaufusi and Henry may be preparing for Williams potentially leaving next year, but for right now, he's not taking a backseat to anyone since 4-3 fronts still use a "NT". And as far as the defensive ends go, I'm not really worried with Smith, Doom, and Suggs. It's certainly a group that could use some more youth in it, but I don't really doubt the four man front.

As for the secondary, you don't need an "off man zone corner". Much like Seattle's Cover 3 scheme, you want corners who can jam their man at the line and smother them along the sideline as they drop back 10-15+ yards. It's a great scheme for opportunistic corners if they can leverage their man to the sideline and keep their eye on the ball because it creates so many more opportunities for interceptions. I know Jimmy would love this scheme and Wright has shown he's far better when using the sideline to his advantage. With the safeties, Weddle would be fine. He played a more rover type role in SD, anyway, so asking him to be able to come down and defend the line of scrimmage, bust a slot receiver over the middle, or just hold his own in zone coverage isn't going to be some huge issue. The one I'd worry about is Webb, but even then, he played well enough at the end of the season and he wasn't a huge liability. 

The only place I'd worry is at outside linebacker where the Ravens have Mosley and KC as pretty much guarantees, and I suppose you'd hope Arthur Brown could play the WILL like many expected him to in the 4-3, but the depth behind them is shaky and even expecting Brown to be a great WILL is optimistic, at best. 

 

I guess you're just a bit more optimistic than me. I like jernigan and henry as a 43 tandem a lot and I think we'd be better off with that than a NT, interior pressure is huge and I think henry could be better at that than Williams.

[BmoreBird22]

14 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I guess you're just a bit more optimistic than me. I like jernigan and henry as a 43 tandem a lot and I think we'd be better off with that than a NT, interior pressure is huge and I think henry could be better at that than Williams.

Interior pressure is great, which Williams is good at in his own right, but the 4-3 defense, especially the Tampa 2, still relies on a NT to stop the run. One of the biggest weaknesses of the Tampa 2 is if runs are able to get past the DT's. Having two great penetrators is awesome, but not if they're overpursuing. You still want that two gapper who can control the run, which is what Brandon Williams obviously does best.

I think you'd be bery hardpressed to find a 4-3 defense that doesn't utilize a two gap NT. Hell, the Giants just spent $9M a year on one.

And that's not to say Henry won't be great because everything I've heard has me excited, but Williams is still necessary 

[52520Andrew]

46 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Mosley has the requisite sideline to sideline ability. Sure, we don't have someone who can cover like Davis as a secondary option, but that shouldn't stop it from being an option.

Just because he may have speed doesn't mean he is Luke Kuechley or Lavonte David back there. Mosley has shown to be much more a thumper thus far in his career than a coverage specialist.

[BmoreBird22]

7 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Just because he may have speed doesn't mean he is Luke Kuechley or Lavonte David back there. Mosley has shown to be much more a thumper thus far in his career than a coverage specialist.

He may not have their man coverage abilities, but Mosley can hang in zones at a high level. He's extremely aware and flows well in bursts. We shouldn't use his man coverage as the end all be all for his entire coverage ability. 

[ellicottraven]

All I can do right now is say a silent prayer for Dallas and Jerry Jones to continue to be a terrible decision maker. Had they actually been smart on draft day, they would've traded their #4 pick to us for our #6 and #102 and still have Zeke and saved 4.5MM on his contract to boot. But, alas we were blessed that Jerry is blessed with chicken meat in his head! I'm just grateful for the way that things played out, because Stanley is going to be a stud for us for a very long time.

I say all this because subsequent to Jalen's meniscus tear, that he actually had microfracture surgery (the same one that had Jack falling to round 2) when he was in high school. I'm not wishing that Jalen has a similar type injury at all, but the notion that he may not play this year (despite all the reports of a small tear) because to me a tear is a tear. It is going to be a while before he can suit up, learn the defense and get coached up to be ready to play. Remember what happened with Breshad? Imagine us in a similar position this year with Ramsey and losing a 3rd or 4th round pick in the bargain? It wouldn't sit well with the fans period. 

So, while not wishing ill will on the Jags ( who are really draft debacle magnets lately), I am just glad things turned out the way they did on draft day!

[52520Andrew]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

He may not have their man coverage abilities, but Mosley can hang in zones at a high level. He's extremely aware and flows well in bursts. We shouldn't use his man coverage as the end all be all for his entire coverage ability. 

That is one big zone for a Tampa 2 though as you have to defend against the TE up the seam, a big vulnerability in the Tampa 2. Not exactly sold on Mosley doing that and less sold on our depth at the position.

[JoeyFlex5]

28 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

All I can do right now is say a silent prayer for Dallas and Jerry Jones to continue to be a terrible decision maker. Had they actually been smart on draft day, they would've traded their #4 pick to us for our #6 and #102 and still have Zeke and saved 4.5MM on his contract to boot. But, alas we were blessed that Jerry is blessed with chicken meat in his head! I'm just grateful for the way that things played out, because Stanley is going to be a stud for us for a very long time.

I say all this because subsequent to Jalen's meniscus tear, that he actually had microfracture surgery (the same one that had Jack falling to round 2) when he was in high school. I'm not wishing that Jalen has a similar type injury at all, but the notion that he may not play this year (despite all the reports of a small tear) because to me a tear is a tear. It is going to be a while before he can suit up, learn the defense and get coached up to be ready to play. Remember what happened with Breshad? Imagine us in a similar position this year with Ramsey and losing a 3rd or 4th round pick in the bargain? It wouldn't sit well with the fans period. 

So, while not wishing ill will on the Jags ( who are really draft debacle magnets lately), I am just glad things turned out the way they did on draft day!

The jags were trading back if we took Ramsey and I think it was Miami that was willing to offer a nice haul to move up for zeke. Dallas knew this and they had a slim chance of getting zeke if they traded back at all

[JoeyFlex5]

29 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

That is one big zone for a Tampa 2 though as you have to defend against the TE up the seam, a big vulnerability in the Tampa 2. Not exactly sold on Mosley doing that and less sold on our depth at the position.

This. Mosley has good speed but I don't think he's the kind of guy who can execute that zone consistently, especially in the red zone which is where you really need your LB to make light work of the TE. I think mosley can be effective between the 20s in a Tampa 2 but the point of that defense is to crack down in the red zone and I don't think mosley is gonna be able to man up with top flight TEs in those jumpball situations.

[52520Andrew]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

This. Mosley has good speed but I don't think he's the kind of guy who can execute that zone consistently, especially in the red zone which is where you really need your LB to make light work of the TE. I think mosley can be effective between the 20s in a Tampa 2 but the point of that defense is to crack down in the red zone and I don't think mosley is gonna be able to man up with top flight TEs in those jumpball situations.

I mean I like CJ, I think there is a good chance that he is able to handle the responsibilities but I also think there is a good chance he has his struggles and it is a key zone in the Tampa 2.

I also wouldn't compare him to the best coverage ILB in the league last year which makes this whole comparing of the Panthers and Ravens defenses pointless. 

[GrimCoconut]

Let's see how Mosley looks in coverage this year. I mean, it's not like a player can't get better and improve. I know this is the NFL and all, but come on now. Let's see what happens in training camp and preseason and the early part of the year and see if he's capable. It's his third year, after all. 

[Winchester]

Mosley has the speed instincts and athleticism to be very good in coverage. His probs last year was trying to do to much surrounded by a slow defense. witb Correa and Brown or a lb ravens trade for or sign I believe Mosley excels at coverage

[BmoreBird22]

17 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

That is one big zone for a Tampa 2 though as you have to defend against the TE up the seam, a big vulnerability in the Tampa 2. Not exactly sold on Mosley doing that and less sold on our depth at the position.

 

17 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

This. Mosley has good speed but I don't think he's the kind of guy who can execute that zone consistently, especially in the red zone which is where you really need your LB to make light work of the TE. I think mosley can be effective between the 20s in a Tampa 2 but the point of that defense is to crack down in the red zone and I don't think mosley is gonna be able to man up with top flight TEs in those jumpball situations.

All I'm saying is most people hate on his coverage because he can't split out wide and cover a halfback as fast as Duke Johnson across the entire field. 

I have no lack of faith in his zone coverage, which is very solid. He's hyper aware and flows very well.

Not saying he's Luke Kuechly (who was a beast in college), but Mosley isn't nearly as bad as some make him out to be based on a few plays.