Kinda Ticked off about this whole Ravens/Tunsil ordeal

[JoeyFlex5]

2 minutes ago, Danny D said:

 

With the Odd Couple selecting Stanley for us and two opinions collaborating upon the selection which 95% here applaud and 4% call too close to be critical of I have an idea. I had no issue whatsoever with taking a Tackle in the 1st round, just not this particular Tackle. Now I have to root for him, even knowing he's at most 3rd best.

I have a better proposition. If Stanley fails to the point that he's not our Left Tackle by game 3 and if Ramsey, who the Odd Couple made a lame and badly calculated Trade Up offer for fails to live up to their perceptions by week 8, I want the Raven's exclusive F.O. gig. (No Partnership). Bisciotti will have to make it Part Time for me because I have other commitments, but I assure him that I can do a better job in a quarter of the time it takes one of his current Tandem to miss-evaluate and miss-rank a prospect.

It's not about working harder Steve.......its about working smarter and your guys are playing with an overinflated ball.

This job isn't all coffee and sugar. I'm not sure you're ready.

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, Danny D said:

 

With the Odd Couple selecting Stanley for us and two opinions collaborating upon the selection which 95% here applaud and 4% call too close to be critical of I have an idea. I had no issue whatsoever with taking a Tackle in the 1st round, just not this particular Tackle. Now I have to root for him, even knowing he's at most 3rd best.

I have a better proposition. If Stanley fails to the point that he's not our Left Tackle by game 3 and if Ramsey, who the Odd Couple made a lame and badly calculated Trade Up offer for fails to live up to their perceptions by week 8, I want the Raven's exclusive F.O. gig. (No Partnership). Bisciotti will have to make it Part Time for me because I have other commitments, but I assure him that I can do a better job in a quarter of the time it takes one of his current Tandem to miss-evaluate and miss-rank a prospect.

It's not about working harder Steve.......its about working smarter and your guys are playing with an overinflated ball.

Jonathan Ogden played guard his first year....might want to  have more realistic expectations

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Lol. He thinks he has power. Biscotti and co. Don't read these boards, and if they did they'd probably laugh. 

Agreed usmccharles. Even if Stanley doesn't play guard and starts at LT his first year it's unrealistic to expect him to be an all pro day one. Few players are.

[Winchester]

17 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

And in what way will you hold yourself personally accountable if he doesn't fail?

To be honest it would be really cool around here for a little accountability on any of the sides. Agree with management and if you do not agree with management. I state my favorite flavors every draft. I been reading this board for years but just began posting last year. And I ask for accountability here and from my friends. Last year I took a lot of flack for saying Ron Darby would be the best cornerback in the draft. And Lockett will eventually be close to Antonio Brown or as good. I liked Hunter and Grady a lot as well. Those guys along with Diggs and lockett were my favorites. This yr I like Henry better than Grady. Reshard Robinson will be in the running for best cornerback in the draft. WR to close to call this yr. My pick is Demarcus Robinson. If he is not the best he will be one of the best and for a round 4 pick can't argue if is in the same league as round1 players. Best edge rushers I'm going with Bosa and Spence. Not to say i do not like ravens picks. Chris Moore has more raw skill than many of the receivers drafted before him. T. Young is more than just a slot cornerback. He is going to be a very very good cornerback in all phases. Kufusi has a chance to be special. A little extra burst of speed through dropping some bad weight and a little more power through adding a little muscle and a lot of coaching up and he could be a really productive  edge rusher that teams have to game plan for. Correa I like to learn coverage and scheme technique and he should be a fast punishing 3down LB that excels at blitzing.

[harfordravenfan]

4 hours ago, Danny D said:

 

With the Odd Couple selecting Stanley for us and two opinions collaborating upon the selection which 95% here applaud and 4% call too close to be critical of I have an idea. I had no issue whatsoever with taking a Tackle in the 1st round, just not this particular Tackle. Now I have to root for him, even knowing he's at most 3rd best.

I have a better proposition. If Stanley fails to the point that he's not our Left Tackle by game 3 and if Ramsey, who the Odd Couple made a lame and badly calculated Trade Up offer for fails to live up to their perceptions by week 8, I want the Raven's exclusive F.O. gig. (No Partnership). Bisciotti will have to make it Part Time for me because I have other commitments, but I assure him that I can do a better job in a quarter of the time it takes one of his current Tandem to miss-evaluate and miss-rank a prospect.

It's not about working harder Steve.......its about working smarter and your guys are playing with an overinflated ball.

Opinions vary and I don't share yours but wondering why tunsil gets 5 weeks less to "prove himself" than Ramsey?

[rmcjacket23]

7 hours ago, Winchester said:

To be honest it would be really cool around here for a little accountability on any of the sides. Agree with management and if you do not agree with management. I state my favorite flavors every draft. I been reading this board for years but just began posting last year. And I ask for accountability here and from my friends. Last year I took a lot of flack for saying Ron Darby would be the best cornerback in the draft. And Lockett will eventually be close to Antonio Brown or as good. I liked Hunter and Grady a lot as well. Those guys along with Diggs and lockett were my favorites. This yr I like Henry better than Grady. Reshard Robinson will be in the running for best cornerback in the draft. WR to close to call this yr. My pick is Demarcus Robinson. If he is not the best he will be one of the best and for a round 4 pick can't argue if is in the same league as round1 players. Best edge rushers I'm going with Bosa and Spence. Not to say i do not like ravens picks. Chris Moore has more raw skill than many of the receivers drafted before him. T. Young is more than just a slot cornerback. He is going to be a very very good cornerback in all phases. Kufusi has a chance to be special. A little extra burst of speed through dropping some bad weight and a little more power through adding a little muscle and a lot of coaching up and he could be a really productive  edge rusher that teams have to game plan for. Correa I like to learn coverage and scheme technique and he should be a fast punishing 3down LB that excels at blitzing.

Taking a lot of "flack" isn't accountability. 

I'm talking like literally punishing yourself for being wrong about complete opinion statements that you people put out as factual and "guarantees". 

I'm talking like not posting on boards for several months. I'm talking about not watching the Ravens play at all for several months.

Those are the kinds of things I think people who make internet "guarantees" and end up being dead wrong should have done to them. 

Nobody cares about "taking flack" from people you don't know and will never know.

Easiest thing in the World for a person to do is make "guarantees" and spew off opinions without spending any time doing your own research AND not having to ever answer or be held accountable for them. Its one of the fundamental differences between a person who can be the General Manager of a football team (Ozzie) and one who can't (every fan ever). One is held accountable, and one isn't.

[Kinda_Dante]

7 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Taking a lot of "flack" isn't accountability. 

I'm talking like literally punishing yourself for being wrong about complete opinion statements that you people put out as factual and "guarantees". 

I'm talking like not posting on boards for several months. I'm talking about not watching the Ravens play at all for several months.

Those are the kinds of things I think people who make internet "guarantees" and end up being dead wrong should have done to them. 

Nobody cares about "taking flack" from people you don't know and will never know.

Easiest thing in the World for a person to do is make "guarantees" and spew off opinions without spending any time doing your own research AND not having to ever answer or be held accountable for them. Its one of the fundamental differences between a person who can be the General Manager of a football team (Ozzie) and one who can't (every fan ever). One is held accountable, and one isn't.

Public apology thread?

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, Kinda_Dante said:

Public apology thread?

That can work also. Though for the people that constantly make "guarantees", I don't think that's sufficient.

Don't get me wrong... I don't expect everybody to always apologize or get tarred and feathered for giving an opinion on something. But when people constantly make "guarantees" or consistently try to pass off opinions as 100% facts and end up being blatantly wrong, there should be consequences.

Or at least some semblance of personal accountability.
 

[Kinda_Dante]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

That can work also. Though for the people that constantly make "guarantees", I don't think that's sufficient.

Don't get me wrong... I don't expect everybody to always apologize or get tarred and feathered for giving an opinion on something. But when people constantly make "guarantees" or consistently try to pass off opinions as 100% facts and end up being blatantly wrong, there should be consequences.

Or at least some semblance of personal accountability.
 

Yeah I get you. It's easy to say you know more than the F.O. and that  they should take more risks when your job doesn't depend on it.

[JoeyFlex5]

I'd like to see a public apology thread from Mike mayock and John gruden. It would be a mile long. And I'd like to see their analysis on all the prospects they got wrong.

[berad]

Just for the record, moderators/admins do not condone 'punishments' for things that do not break the board rules. There is no way for us to enforce them, either, without vastly overstepping our bounds.

This thread is moving away from topic, can we bring it back please?

[rmcjacket23]

5 minutes ago, berad said:

Just for the record, moderators/admins do not condone 'punishments' for things that do not break the board rules. There is no way for us to enforce them, either, without vastly overstepping our bounds.

This thread is moving away from topic, can we bring it back please?

Then make it a rule perhaps?

Those that make guarantees that turn out to be inaccurate are suspended from the board for a period of time.

Sounds more than reasonable to me...

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

37 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Umm, no.

1. We don't even know that Stanley will be the LT this season. If I had to bet right now, I'd say he wouldn't. Naturally, that doesn't make him a bust either, considering maybe the greatest LT in history, Jonathan Ogden, didn't start at LT his rookie year either. 

2. Obviously three games isn't anywhere near a good enough sample size to draft any conclusions about anybody. 3 YEARS would be a much more reasonable basis than 3 games. Kind of laughable that fans think three games is a sample size. I once saw Kyle Boller play pretty well for 3 games.

3. So, in summary, you won't hold yourself accountable at all. That's what I thought. 

I'll go out on another not so big limb... whatever you do for a living, Steve, Ozzie and Eric would ALL do it better. Don't care what it is, don't care how much education, intelligence, or knowledge it takes. That's how little I value guys claiming they could do the job better. Those guys never do their own jobs well.

You're giving a lot of credit, assuming he has a job.

[Kinda_Dante]

I think everyone just needs to accept that the F.O. know more than any of us do. They made the right pick because even if you believe that Tunsil was the better prospect it is a very slim margin so Stanley wins out due to him being a cleaner prospect.

Also it is not just convenient that people started liking Stanley better right before the draft, it's due to the fact that as we get closer to the drafts the media actually starts catching up to what NFL FO's are really thinking.

Without them having played a single down yet Stanley was the right pick because they were both very close talent wise. In three years when we can actually evaluate their play we can make a decision on whether or not Tunsil was worth the character and injury concerns.

[GrimCoconut]

Lol what has happened to this thread? I'm with @berad and I think we should drop the subject of punishing forum members for incorrect guarantees. I'm one who greatly dislikes absolutes made by members but punishing regular fans for mistakes in their opinions seems counterintuitive to the purpose of a message board. 

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Lol what has happened to this thread? I'm with @berad and I think we should drop the subject of punishing forum members for incorrect guarantees. I'm one who greatly dislikes absolutes made by members but punishing regular fans for mistakes in their opinions seems counterintuitive to the purpose of a message board. 

To me, opinions and guarantees aren't the same thing.

A guarantee is a certainty. It says that something will 100% happen. There's no possible way it couldn't happen.

[berad]

28 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Then make it a rule perhaps?

Those that make guarantees that turn out to be inaccurate are suspended from the board for a period of time.

Sounds more than reasonable to me...

The Administrators are open for suggestions, through the feedback forum or PM.

As someone else alluded to, professional sportscasters and analysts throw out predictions and guarantees on a daily basis that are unfounded, incorrect, and (if anyone held them to it) embarrassing.

Maybe we should just not worry about other people 'guaranteeing' things they have no control over.

edit - before I have to shut it down or hide a dozen posts, can we get to the topic please?

Edited May 19, 2016 by berad

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, berad said:

The Administrators are open for suggestions, through the feedback forum or PM.

As someone else alluded to, professional sportscasters and analysts throw out predictions and guarantees on a daily basis that are unfounded, incorrect, and (if anyone held them to it) embarrassing.

Maybe we should just not worry about other people 'guaranteeing' things they have no control over.

That's fine. The comparison is a bit off to me though. Predictions aren't guarantees. When somebody guarantees something, it means there's no possible alternative other than that event happening.

And those people should be held accountable as well. That's sort of my whole point... nobody is held accountable for the things they say anymore, especially on the internet. They don't have to worry about being intelligent, educated, factual, etc. They can just say whatever they want and nothing will ever happen to them.

[GrimCoconut]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

To me, opinions and guarantees aren't the same thing.

A guarantee is a certainty. It says that something will 100% happen. There's no possible way it couldn't happen.

I think you're taking it too seriously. I get your point and I don't like outlandish guarantees either, such as how we screwed up and didn't take Tunsil and that Tunsil will certainly be the better player. These prospects were close for me before the draft, although I had Tunsil ahead. 

That said, Tunsil has injury concerns, maturity and character concerns, and he doesn't come from a pro style offense so there's no guarantee he even pans out as expected. Robinson was expected to be a sure thing but hasn't been, same goes for Joeckel and Fisher while 3rd round pick Armstead is the best of that group. 

[rmw10]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

That's fine. The comparison is a bit off to me though. Predictions aren't guarantees. When somebody guarantees something, it means there's no possible alternative other than that event happening.

And those people should be held accountable as well. That's sort of my whole point... nobody is held accountable for the things they say anymore, especially on the internet. They don't have to worry about being intelligent, educated, factual, etc. They can just say whatever they want and nothing will ever happen to them.

Or you could just ignore it...

[GrimCoconut]

3 minutes ago, berad said:

The Administrators are open for suggestions, through the feedback forum or PM.

As someone else alluded to, professional sportscasters and analysts throw out predictions and guarantees on a daily basis that are unfounded, incorrect, and (if anyone held them to it) embarrassing.

Maybe we should just not worry about other people 'guaranteeing' things they have no control over.

edit - before I have to shut it down or hide a dozen posts, can we get to the topic please?

I just connected the two points since the topic hasn't exactly gone off topic since the deviation occurred due to guarantees around Tunsil being better. 

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Umm, no.

1. We don't even know that Stanley will be the LT this season. If I had to bet right now, I'd say he wouldn't. Naturally, that doesn't make him a bust either, considering maybe the greatest LT in history, Jonathan Ogden, didn't start at LT his rookie year either. 

2. Obviously three games isn't anywhere near a good enough sample size to draft any conclusions about anybody. 3 YEARS would be a much more reasonable basis than 3 games. Kind of laughable that fans think three games is a sample size. I once saw Kyle Boller play pretty well for 3 games.

3. So, in summary, you won't hold yourself accountable at all. That's what I thought. 

I'll go out on another not so big limb... whatever you do for a living, Steve, Ozzie and Eric would ALL do it better. Don't care what it is, don't care how much education, intelligence, or knowledge it takes. That's how little I value guys claiming they could do the job better. Those guys never do their own jobs well.

See, thats the problem with a lot of fans, they want things and they want it now. Some fans need to understand that it takes time to build a competitor.  From what Danny D is saying, he would of been disappointed and wrote off Ogden after the first 3 games of his career.  I think that says enough about his skills to evaluate

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by usmccharles

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, GrimCoconut said:

I think you're taking it too seriously. I get your point and I don't like outlandish guarantees either, such as how we screwed up and didn't take Tunsil and that Tunsil will certainly be the better player. These prospects were close for me before the draft, although I had Tunsil ahead. 

That said, Tunsil has injury concerns, maturity and character concerns, and he doesn't come from a pro style offense so there's no guarantee he even pans out as expected. Robinson was expected to be a sure thing but hasn't been, same goes for Joeckel and Fisher while 3rd round pick Armstead is the best of that group. 

No question they were close.

More of a fight on my part to show a certain segment of the fan board that they actually don't know more than the FO does, and if they were held as accountable (or even partially accountable) as people who actually have to make these decisions, one of two things would happen. Either they'd shut up quickly and not say a word, or they'd get fired.

In fact, I'll even "guarantee" that those are the only two possible outcomes that could occur when fans claim they know more than the FO AND have to be held accountable for thinking that.

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Or you could just ignore it...

Anybody can just ignore anything.

I could type a long list of expletives and slurs at somebody and my response to them could be "hey, just ignore it".

Doesn't make it right.

[AsianRice]

That's why you hardly see me getting into unreasonable discussion: read through it, don't like it so ignore it and if like it, discuss it....less stressful....lol

[Kinda_Dante]

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 6:56 AM, Tru11 said:

This thread has the potential to make it to page 10.

I believe in you guys.

 

We're almost there!

[ellicottraven]

18 minutes ago, Kinda_Dante said:

We're almost there!

I just want to assist in a noble cause.

[Winchester]

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Taking a lot of "flack" isn't accountability. 

I'm talking like literally punishing yourself for being wrong about complete opinion statements that you people put out as factual and "guarantees". 

I'm talking like not posting on boards for several months. I'm talking about not watching the Ravens play at all for several months.

Those are the kinds of things I think people who make internet "guarantees" and end up being dead wrong should have done to them. 

Nobody cares about "taking flack" from people you don't know and will never know.

Easiest thing in the World for a person to do is make "guarantees" and spew off opinions without spending any time doing your own research AND not having to ever answer or be held accountable for them. Its one of the fundamental differences between a person who can be the General Manager of a football team (Ozzie) and one who can't (every fan ever). One is held accountable, and one isn't.

Taking flack or whatever you call it is accountability to me. Shoot an email to anybody on my Facebook page and and ask to describe my personality. You will get I do not like making mistskes, I beat myself up over mistakes and always try to correct mistakes. And I do not like to be wrong. lol but in a good way. I  state my favorite flavors every draft. And I'm behind the players I like. And if I'm wrong I welcome the taunting i receive from family friends and co workers. Most people trust what I say so naturally I get some flack when I'm wrong. A lot actually. Bubbly friends know I'm harder on myself than anybody else is. As for not posting or not watching games. Not hard to do lol. I do not post during summer anyways. From about memorial day to labor. And when ravens are losing I do not watch the game anyways. When ravens are not going to be contenders the games are not as much fun and I do not watch all of the games. Trying to forecast players is part my geek side hobby part sneak preview of the season. I considered a thread of players members would of picked with each pick. Even state player You would trade up for and what you would offer. And late in football season the forum looks at it to reflect back on how the players perform. Then after couple seasons the members can legitimize support and criticism of management's decisions. Just for fun and members need to remain mature about it and not gloat to much if you are correct and be humble and mature about those who were wrong. After all it is just for fun. Theres a couple players i wanted ravens to get but i liked the ravens draft overall. My fav ravens draft in a good while.

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Taking flack or whatever you call it is accountability to me. Shoot an email to anybody on my Facebook page and and ask to describe my personality. You will get I do not like making mistskes, I beat myself up over mistakes and always try to correct mistakes. And I do not like to be wrong. lol but in a good way. I  state my favorite flavors every draft. And I'm behind the players I like. And if I'm wrong I welcome the taunting i receive from family friends and co workers. Most people trust what I say so naturally I get some flack when I'm wrong. A lot actually. Bubbly friends know I'm harder on myself than anybody else is. As for not posting or not watching games. Not hard to do lol. I do not post during summer anyways. From about memorial day to labor. And when ravens are losing I do not watch the game anyways. When ravens are not going to be contenders the games are not as much fun and I do not watch all of the games. Trying to forecast players is part my geek side hobby part sneak preview of the season. I considered a thread of players members would of picked with each pick. Even state player You would trade up for and what you would offer. And late in football season the forum looks at it to reflect back on how the players perform. Then after couple seasons the members can legitimize support and criticism of management's decisions. Just for fun and members need to remain mature about it and not gloat to much if you are correct and be humble and mature about those who were wrong. After all it is just for fun. Theres a couple players i wanted ravens to get but i liked the ravens draft overall. My fav ravens draft in a good while.

Perks of the internet though... you can SAY all of these things and nobody will know the difference, thus why I ask for accountability that can be seen. 

I have no interest in using Facebook to communicate with you or any of your "friends". Judging by some of the references you've made to them before, I'd be terrified to do so on the sheer fact that I think they have no idea what they're talking about anyway.

And I think I can say pretty confidently that most people ON THIS BOARD do NOT trust what you say. I'd be willing to bet a substantial amount of just about anything that if you were to poll people that read your posts, respond to them, etc., you'd find that the overwhelming majority of them do not trust what you say, particularly when it comes to this team.

Could very well be the case for me as well, but I'm not the one touting that people trust me.

[Winchester]

2 hours ago, usmccharles said:

See, thats the problem with a lot of fans, they want things and they want it now. Some fans need to understand that it takes time to build a competitor.  From what Danny D is saying, he would of been disappointed and wrote off Ogden after the first 3 games of his career.  I think that says enough about his skills to evaluate

 

Ogden did not play guard from not being able to play tackle. There was already a vet pro bowl left tackle. It was impressive Ogden looked so good at a position he never played before. Do you believe he would not of been a stand out left tackle as a rookie?? While being standout in 3 games is not realistic for every future all pro, By the end of season 1 there is usually a very good idea.