Kinda Ticked off about this whole Ravens/Tunsil ordeal

[Cville-Raven]

59 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I think it's funny that people questioned whether Stanley was dedicated based off a rumor and practically hated him as our pick ever since but give Tunsil a pass due to his character concerns of which are clearly evident and substantiated. It's quite amusing.

Not to mention Tunsil also has durability concerns which we've already got plenty of at LT.

[Ravensfan23]

15 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Apparently they had like Bosa for a very long time.

Yes they were said to be high on Bosa for a long time, but who's to say they didn't uncover certain character concerns about Tunsil that turned them off him and the video just confirmed what certain teams were thinking about him? I feel like this team spend far too much time, and far too many players are getting suspended for drug usage for these teams not to know all this information about these kids. Tunsil didn't do such a great job of hiding drug usage only to slip up and have his account hacked just moments before the draft. Teams knew, they may not have made their finding public, but they knew. I wouldn't even be surprised if a team like Mia leaked the video, knowing that Tunsil was dropping but wanted to entice a team to take Conklin so that they'd get their guy. Likely? maybe not, but i wouldn't be surprised. 

[Willbacker]

6 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

When I said that, I meant they liked him enough that he was going to be their choice for months. 

I never bought Tunsil to SD because Dunlap still has three years on his contract and talent hasn't been the issue for them; it's been health. Know who's never finished a full college season and had an injury each year? Tunsil.

I know what you meant and since he was the 1st choice after the QBs that's what they're always gonna say and its extremely plausible Bosa was their 1st choice all along. I'm not saying it wasn't but King Dunlop is not a very good LT imo and its not just injuries that's holding this line back. They're just not that good.

I also don't doubt the Ravens had Stanley rated over Tunsil but really did the Titans have Conklin rated over Tunsil but they seemed worried enough they jumped up 8 spots to snag Conklin which means they firmly believed other teams were thinking likewise. That vid killed Tunsil. Cost him like 8 mil total I believe.

[BmoreBird22]

27 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

I know what you meant and since he was the 1st choice after the QBs that's what they're always gonna say and its extremely plausible Bosa was their 1st choice all along. I'm not saying it wasn't but King Dunlop is not a very good LT imo and its not just injuries that's holding this line back. They're just not that good.

I also don't doubt the Ravens had Stanley rated over Tunsil but really did the Titans have Conklin rated over Tunsil but they seemed worried enough they jumped up 8 spots to snag Conklin which means they firmly believed other teams were thinking likewise. That vid killed Tunsil. Cost him like 8 mil total I believe.

The team didn't say that; a reported who had insider information had reported that SD had Bosa as their number one target for a very long time.

[JoeyFlex5]

3 hours ago, Winchester said:

And a player has to actually perform. To much stock is put into a player playing in the game. A player can be available but if he sucks is he really any better than the injured or suspended player 

You clamored for Stanley the last month before the draft over Tunsil...

[Winchester]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

You clamored for Stanley the last month before the draft over Tunsil...

Yep. Because he is cleaner and a harder worker with upside. And Tunsil is juiced which means not much upside left. He is not getting much stronger or explosive. Like I said give Ron Stanley even close to Tunsils strength and upper bod maturity and he is better than Tunsil and people wouldn't even question it

[JoeyFlex5]

28 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Yep. Because he is cleaner and a harder worker with upside. And Tunsil is juiced which means not much upside left. He is not getting much stronger or explosive. Like I said give Ron Stanley even close to Tunsils strength and upper bod maturity and he is better than Tunsil and people wouldn't even question it

I was just pointing out the irony in you saying healthy players have to perform well in order to be better than injury prone players, as if you were saying Tunsil is better, but you were clamoring for StAnley for a while.

[Winchester]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I was just pointing out the irony in you saying healthy players have to perform well in order to be better than injury prone players, as if you were saying Tunsil is better, but you were clamoring for StAnley for a while.

You drew I was saying Tunsil is better from that??  Weren't you clamoring and even arguing for Buckner for a while?? lol I'm glad you changed your mind on that one. Will Henry is going to be better than Buckner. Just as Kufusi will although a different position.

[Edgar]

There won't be a single day that the Ravens regret drafting Stanley.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

 

In terms of fit, i think Stanley is a great fit, both on and off the field. DeCosta was on WBAL talking about how well Stanley performed vs Clemson despite having the protect on 25 pass attempts in the 4th quarter alone. Also i love his athletic ability to work in space. Trestman will be running a ton of screens and asking this guy to lead block around the edge. I've heard that as a player Stanley was the safer pick while Tunsil had more upside, but it just seems like Stanley really fit what and who the Ravens want.  `

I've learned that one must look into whatever DeCosta says in his own defense. (Which is a heck of a lot more than Newsome.)  Now I will acknowledge that Stanley played pretty well in the last Notre Dame drive vs Clemson when the rushers were gassed and on the field too long.  Stanley kept the Defensive End safe in that last Drive/Fumble/Drive.  But DeCosta failed to look closely at the beginning of that 4th quarter when Stanley was played before the Defense gassed out. 

Make no mistake Stanley is a better pass blocker than a run blocker.  But anyone who thinks Stanley is gonna hold up to NFL quality pass rushers better get their helmets on and tighten their chin straps. As far as the run game goes, we lost serious ground when we passed on Tunsil

I'm not going to play DeCosta's game any longer. Watch the 4th quarter for yourself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3syDNpLHkuM

 

 

[JoeyFlex5]

51 minutes ago, Winchester said:

You drew I was saying Tunsil is better from that??  Weren't you clamoring and even arguing for Buckner for a while?? lol I'm glad you changed your mind on that one. Will Henry is going to be better than Buckner. Just as Kufusi will although a different position.

A number of consecutive posts came off as you looking for reasons to prefer Tunsil lol. Not saying you specifically said that but it seemed like you were implying that. 

 

And yeah I was all about Buckner back in like... February lol. It happens.

[Winchester]

32 minutes ago, Danny D said:

I've learned that one must look into whatever DeCosta says in his own defense. (Which is a heck of a lot more than Newsome.)  Now I will acknowledge that Stanley played pretty well in the last Notre Dame drive vs Clemson when the rushers were gassed and on the field too long.  Stanley kept the Defensive End safe in that last Drive/Fumble/Drive.  But DeCosta failed to look closely at the beginning of that 4th quarter when Stanley was played before the Defense gassed out. 

Make no mistake Stanley is a better pass blocker than a run blocker.  But anyone who thinks Stanley is gonna hold up to NFL quality pass rushers better get their helmets on and tighten their chin straps. As far as the run game goes, we lost serious ground when we passed on Tunsil

I'm not going to play DeCosta's game any longer. Watch the 4th quarter for yourself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3syDNpLHkuM

 

 

If Ron Stanley has problems dominating in the run game we will just have to juice him up like Tunsil.

[Winchester]

15 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

A number of consecutive posts came off as you looking for reasons to prefer Tunsil lol. Not saying you specifically said that but it seemed like you were implying that. 

 

And yeah I was all about Buckner back in like... February lol. It happens.

I was just saying in general a player that is available for 16 games has to perform well or he is no more serviceable than the injured or suspended dude. Nothing to do with Tunsil/Stanley. lol I knew your fling with Buckner wouldn't last. 

[Ravensfan23]

2 hours ago, Danny D said:

I've learned that one must look into whatever DeCosta says in his own defense. (Which is a heck of a lot more than Newsome.)  Now I will acknowledge that Stanley played pretty well in the last Notre Dame drive vs Clemson when the rushers were gassed and on the field too long.  Stanley kept the Defensive End safe in that last Drive/Fumble/Drive.  But DeCosta failed to look closely at the beginning of that 4th quarter when Stanley was played before the Defense gassed out. 

Make no mistake Stanley is a better pass blocker than a run blocker.  But anyone who thinks Stanley is gonna hold up to NFL quality pass rushers better get their helmets on and tighten their chin straps. As far as the run game goes, we lost serious ground when we passed on Tunsil

I'm not going to play DeCosta's game any longer. Watch the 4th quarter for yourself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3syDNpLHkuM

 

 

Not sure exactly what you mean by this but Stanley held up well the entire game. I just watch every offensive snap from the link you provided and I gave Stanley 2 negative plays in pass pro. Lawson destroyed him with a great spin move and also bull rushed him to get the QB off his spot. Other then that it was a great matchup that Stanley performed well in. 

The whole defense got tired thing is an excuse. The ND offense left plays on the field all game with dropped passes and the young QB missing wide open guys to extend drives. In fact if not for the overall offensive perform being so poor for ND the entire game might have looked like the 2nd half did for ND, minus the 3 TOs. Clemson loaded the box and dared a young QB making his 4th start in college FB to beat them and he couldn't early on. That ND oline was at a disadvantage the entire first half because it's nearly impossible to get movement in the run game when a defense is slanting and run blitzing on every 1st and 2nd down because they don't fear your QB. 

Now i'm not saying Stanley is a great run blocker or making any excuses for his run blocking, but to insinuate that DeCosta is trying to play a game with fans by saying Stanley held up well in that game is just wrong, because Stanley did have a good game, in the rain, on the road in a hostile environment, with a inexperienced QB. I'm sure all those things played a factor in the evaluation of Stanley in that game. 

[Ravensfan23]

1 hour ago, Winchester said:

If Ron Stanley has problems dominating in the run game we will just have to juice him up like Tunsil.

I honestly feel the Ravens don't need him to dominate in the run game to be at his best. Trestman is only gonna run the ball 15-25 times a game. The Ravens are a run first offense crowd may as well accept that now. If you don't run the ball 30+ times with the likes of Schuab, Mallett and the other guy at QB, you sure don't do it with Flacco back in control. So there's that. Then if you look at the running game from last season the Ravens didn't ask it's oline to blow people off the ball, just seal off running lanes which Stanley is fully capable of doing. Also, Trestman's use of the play action helps keep defenders on their heels and that also helps the run game. So i don't think he needs to be a dominant run blocker. Short yardage, we need this first down or TD, is where any issues about his lack of power in the run game my show up, but good technique can get him by. 

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Not sure exactly what you mean by this but Stanley held up well the entire game. I just watch every offensive snap from the link you provided and I gave Stanley 2 negative plays in pass pro. Lawson destroyed him with a great spin move and also bull rushed him to get the QB off his spot. Other then that it was a great matchup that Stanley performed well in. 

The whole defense got tired thing is an excuse. The ND offense left plays on the field all game with dropped passes and the young QB missing wide open guys to extend drives. In fact if not for the overall offensive perform being so poor for ND the entire game might have looked like the 2nd half did for ND, minus the 3 TOs. Clemson loaded the box and dared a young QB making his 4th start in college FB to beat them and he couldn't early on. That ND oline was at a disadvantage the entire first half because it's nearly impossible to get movement in the run game when a defense is slanting and run blitzing on every 1st and 2nd down because they don't fear your QB. 

Now i'm not saying Stanley is a great run blocker or making any excuses for his run blocking, but to insinuate that DeCosta is trying to play a game with fans by saying Stanley held up well in that game is just wrong, because Stanley did have a good game, in the rain, on the road in a hostile environment, with a inexperienced QB. I'm sure all those things played a factor in the evaluation of Stanley in that game. 

You are mischaracterizing that 4th quarter, singled out by DeCosta.........which I watched and every other Stanley game, every play this year.  I wouldn't have drafted him with the Steelers pick and I am telling this board he will fail and he will fail large and that Newsome and DeCosta will have to depart if they have any integrity at all.  Stanley is Elam in Tackle form.

 

[Ravensfan23]

1 hour ago, Danny D said:

You are mischaracterizing that 4th quarter, singled out by DeCosta.........which I watched and every other Stanley game, every play this year.  I wouldn't have drafted him with the Steelers pick and I am telling this board he will fail and he will fail large and that Newsome and DeCosta will have to depart if they have any integrity at all.  Stanley is Elam in Tackle form.

 

Ok then help me out. I'm not a professional scout and I have too many other responsibility to allow my joy of watching CFB to become anything more then a hobby or 6 hour release on Saturday. So with that said I may very well have mischaracterized that 4th quarter, but don't leave me hanging, let me know the real because I saw a top level LT who kept his QB clean all game despite poor conditions. So what did I miss and why shouldn't i listen to DeCosta who made a statement which I happen to agree with. 

You wouldn't have drafted him, OK. So many other people sign the praises of the pick. So why shouldn't anyone buy into what you are selling? What are your credentials as a talent evaluator? No shot at you just really interesting in knowing because you could be a guy who scouts for a living and just haven't caught his big break. Does Stanley have issues that can't be helped by NFL coaching? Does development not take place in the NFL or does a guy have to perform exactly how he did in college? I understand that you hate the pick, but questioning Newsome and DeCosta's integrity is uncalled for, especially if you are not willing to say you'll never question their ability again if you're proven wrong. OR you'll never post about a collegiate prospect again if proven wrong. Those two guys liveihood rest on these picks, all you have on the line is your opinion. 

[JoeyFlex5]

19 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Ok then help me out. I'm not a professional scout and I have too many other responsibility to allow my joy of watching CFB to become anything more then a hobby or 6 hour release on Saturday. So with that said I may very well have mischaracterized that 4th quarter, but don't leave me hanging, let me know the real because I saw a top level LT who kept his QB clean all game despite poor conditions. So what did I miss and why shouldn't i listen to DeCosta who made a statement which I happen to agree with. 

You wouldn't have drafted him, OK. So many other people sign the praises of the pick. So why shouldn't anyone buy into what you are selling? What are your credentials as a talent evaluator? No shot at you just really interesting in knowing because you could be a guy who scouts for a living and just haven't caught his big break. Does Stanley have issues that can't be helped by NFL coaching? Does development not take place in the NFL or does a guy have to perform exactly how he did in college? I understand that you hate the pick, but questioning Newsome and DeCosta's integrity is uncalled for, especially if you are not willing to say you'll never question their ability again if you're proven wrong. OR you'll never post about a collegiate prospect again if proven wrong. Those two guys liveihood rest on these picks, all you have on the line is your opinion. 

He is no more informed than you are, don't bother waiting for a detailed explanation. I have seen some absurd posts from this guy for the past couple of weeks regarding our draft. 

 

Stanley did just fine that game and sometimes your tackle just doesn't have a perfect play, which happened twice against the best DL in the nation, no big deal at all

 

[RavensDieHard21]

Stanley has gotten better every year, now there is no school work and this is his full-time job. I expect he will come in stronger and leaner to accompany his improved skills coming from Juan.

[Winchester]

On 5/16/2016 at 1:19 AM, Ravensfan23 said:

I honestly feel the Ravens don't need him to dominate in the run game to be at his best. Trestman is only gonna run the ball 15-25 times a game. The Ravens are a run first offense crowd may as well accept that now. If you don't run the ball 30+ times with the likes of Schuab, Mallett and the other guy at QB, you sure don't do it with Flacco back in control. So there's that. Then if you look at the running game from last season the Ravens didn't ask it's oline to blow people off the ball, just seal off running lanes which Stanley is fully capable of doing. Also, Trestman's use of the play action helps keep defenders on their heels and that also helps the run game. So i don't think he needs to be a dominant run blocker. Short yardage, we need this first down or TD, is where any issues about his lack of power in the run game my show up, but good technique can get him by. 

Do not want him to just get by. Dominating while protecting Joe Cool as well as run game has huge impact on the game. It takes the rivals confidence as well as tires them out and springs big runs!! Which in turn will not allow the defense to sell out stopping Joe cool. Not to mention if the defensive line is worrying about getting dominated then his attention is not completely on tackling the running back, pressuring Joe Cool or trying to keep up with reading strategy. At no. 6 overall Ron Stanley needs to ge an anchor. Not somebody you  gameplan around to help with things he can not do well. And I do believe he will add muscle and get in better shape to supplement his natural skills. Castillo is a big advocate of being stronger than your opponent really helps you control your opponent. Being no.6 overall and reps riding on Ron Stanley I would bet coaching will get to work pretty fast to design programs to get Ron Stanley stronger and in better shape.

[Ravensfan23]

6 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Stanley has gotten better every year, now there is no school work and this is his full-time job. I expect he will come in stronger and leaner to accompany his improved skills coming from Juan.

There has never been nor will there ever be a test to measure a person's heart. How bad Stanley wants to be great will be displayed by the work he puts in now as a pro. 

I think the thing many people fail to realize is the adjustment from being an amateur to a pro is indeed a tough one but it's meant for you to grow as a person, in life and in your profession. Whatever limitations any of these guys had as college kids can be developed the more they are coached and compete with grown men. I can't wait until Suggs and Doom get their hands on Stanley during practice cause it should only make him better if he's wired the right way. 

Also even though he's been a disappointment in most cases as a Raven, Monroe will help Stanley tremendously in the weight room. No one can ever deny Monroe's work ethic there. Those two are similar in body type and style of play imo. Monroe should help Stanley quickly build up his core, lower body and overall strength in the weight room and with his eating habits. 

[Ravensfan23]

5 hours ago, Winchester said:

Do not want him to just get by. Dominating while protecting Joe Cool as well as run game has huge impact on the game. It takes the rivals confidence as well as tires them out and springs big runs!! Which in turn will not allow the defense to sell out stopping Joe cool. Not to mention if the defensive line is worrying about getting dominated then his attention is not completely on tackling the running back, pressuring Joe Cool or trying to keep up with reading strategy. At no. 6 overall Ron Stanley needs to ge an anchor. Not somebody you  gameplan around to help with things he can not do well. And I do believe he will add muscle and get in better shape to supplement his natural skills. Castillo is a big advocate of being stronger than your opponent really helps you control your opponent. Being no.6 overall and reps riding on Ron Stanley I would bet coaching will get to work pretty fast to design programs to get Ron Stanley stronger and in better shape.

Honestly I think you are living in fantasy if you think any LT consistently dominates in the run game playing and play out. Stanley is plenty good enough in the run game. Does he blow people off the ball? No but he won't be asked to either. The Ravens are no longer a power blocking, line up and run the ball 35 times a game even though you know we're coming team. Nobody in the NFL is. 

While Stanley doesn't blow people off the ball, his defender rarely makes the tackle and he's really good blocking in space. So if you are worried about a defenders getting discouraged, that guy not making tackles all day will have the same effect. Also play calling has more to do with keeping a defense honest then the dominate play of a LT. If Stanley continues to seal off running lanes and getting to the second level to block he'll be fine. 

At #6 you want a LT who you hope will be on the field every game and perform consistently for the next decade. I don't care if he isn't "dominant" in the run game, especially when you have so many LTs drafted in the top 10 who's flopped in the last 5+ years. 

[JoeyFlex5]

18 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

There has never been nor will there ever be a test to measure a person's heart. How bad Stanley wants to be great will be displayed by the work he puts in now as a pro. 

I think the thing many people fail to realize is the adjustment from being an amateur to a pro is indeed a tough one but it's meant for you to grow as a person, in life and in your profession. Whatever limitations any of these guys had as college kids can be developed the more they are coached and compete with grown men. I can't wait until Suggs and Doom get their hands on Stanley during practice cause it should only make him better if he's wired the right way. 

Also even though he's been a disappointment in most cases as a Raven, Monroe will help Stanley tremendously in the weight room. No one can ever deny Monroe's work ethic there. Those two are similar in body type and style of play imo. Monroe should help Stanley quickly build up his core, lower body and overall strength in the weight room and with his eating habits. 

Oddly I kinda thought Monroe and Tunsil had identical builds. Extremely thick core and arms, compact and stocky, disproportionate lower body.

[Tru11]

On 16-5-2016 at 4:49 AM, Edgar said:

There won't be a single day that the Ravens regret drafting Stanley.

dont jinx it cause when them injuries start to happen all bets are off , not to mention he has yet to take the field.

also lets not forget that people can make mistakes or have a lapse in judgment.

if i learned anything here its that is does not take much for the fans to turn on someone.....

Heck just look at this thread.
From the SB till the draft majority was on the Tunsil bandwagon and few wanted anything to do with Stanley at the 6th spot.
Ow how things done changed rather quick once day 1 of the draft was over 

 

 

[Ravensfan23]

Meant from an general body type. Both guys are the more athletic body type opposed heavier type LT like a JO or Gather. 

[ravensdan]

On May 13, 2016 at 2:58 AM, usmccharles said:

Come on man, you cant sit here and dog on Ozzie for when he makes good picks, saying anyone could do It then complain about his recent picks.  It isn't like we were picking number 1 every year or something.  Teams all passed on JO, Ray, Reed, Ngata, Bolware , etc... Every team misses picks, EVERY SINGLE TEAM.  Playing the "well this guy was available and out performed the guy we drafted" card is so moot, because you can do that for almost every single pick you make. 

You cant draft HoF players every round, or even every draft, its just impossible.  

But I still don't get the love affair for Tunsil, the guy was injured every single year and yet some people here want us to use a top 6 pick on a guy just so we can get a Monroe 2.0, those people would also be the ones to flip out as soon as Tunsil gets hurt and blame Oz for drafting an injury prone LT. 

It's hilarious, some people forget two years ago we were up 14pts on the SB champs with 4th string CBs, but the sky is falling!

Terrible FA signings I agree. I mean who on earth would want SSr.  You most likely hate all the signings we made this year as well.  So who would you have gotten?

I am more than OK with people disagreeing and not liking moves the FO makes, theres some I don't like.  Its what we are all here to do, discuss the franchise.  But the negative attitude by some on here just blows my mind.  When did these people become Ravens fans? I am not saying that because of the hate for OZ, a lot of posters are reminding me of Jerry Seinfeld, breaking up with a girl because she had man hands, just looking for problems. 

Seinfeld is classic!

[Winchester]

18 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Oddly I kinda thought Monroe and Tunsil had identical builds. Extremely thick core and arms, compact and stocky, disproportionate lower body.

common when big guys are juiced. If Ron Stanley can build even close to that kind of muscle maturity he would be the best left tackle in the league!! Except his legs and hips are naturally bigger and  stronger and more symmetrical to his upper bod. So he will play with better balance,not top heavy 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Winchester

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

18 hours ago, Tru11 said:

dont jinx it cause when them injuries start to happen all bets are off , not to mention he has yet to take the field.

also lets not forget that people can make mistakes or have a lapse in judgment.

if i learned anything here its that is does not take much for the fans to turn on someone.....

Heck just look at this thread.
From the SB till the draft majority was on the Tunsil bandwagon and few wanted anything to do with Stanley at the 6th spot.
Ow how things done changed rather quick once day 1 of the draft was over 

 

 

You're right. Because having a video of you using a bong in a gas mask is clearly not a valid reason to pass up on someone especially since the NFL's stance on using that substance is very harsh. 

 

Once that video came out we couldn't draft him dude. I will say this. Tunsil was the better prospect(which is saying a lot. Stanley was pretty damn great himself), but if he turns into the offensive tackle version of Josh Gordon then he's utterly useless to us. 

[rmcjacket23]

On 5/17/2016 at 10:13 PM, Danny D said:

You are mischaracterizing that 4th quarter, singled out by DeCosta.........which I watched and every other Stanley game, every play this year.  I wouldn't have drafted him with the Steelers pick and I am telling this board he will fail and he will fail large and that Newsome and DeCosta will have to depart if they have any integrity at all.  Stanley is Elam in Tackle form.

 

And in what way will you hold yourself personally accountable if he doesn't fail?

[Guest]

15 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

And in what way will you hold yourself personally accountable if he doesn't fail?

 

With the Odd Couple selecting Stanley for us and two opinions collaborating upon the selection which 95% here applaud and 4% call too close to be critical of I have an idea. I had no issue whatsoever with taking a Tackle in the 1st round, just not this particular Tackle. Now I have to root for him, even knowing he's at most 3rd best.

I have a better proposition. If Stanley fails to the point that he's not our Left Tackle by game 3 and if Ramsey, who the Odd Couple made a lame and badly calculated Trade Up offer for fails to live up to their perceptions by week 8, I want the Raven's exclusive F.O. gig. (No Partnership). Bisciotti will have to make it Part Time for me because I have other commitments, but I assure him that I can do a better job in a quarter of the time it takes one of his current Tandem to miss-evaluate and miss-rank a prospect.

It's not about working harder Steve.......its about working smarter and your guys are playing with an overinflated ball.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Danny D