Kinda Ticked off about this whole Ravens/Tunsil ordeal

[rmcjacket23]

12 hours ago, Danny D said:

Let me see....Man block, Zone Blocking Scheme, Pass Protection on Pass Plays.

How high does a Pancaker need to score?  Le"Veon Bell scored a 17.

I'm calling it here and now........Tunsil will completely out perform Stanley. It will not even be close.

Will you agree if we still need a Left Tackle after this boondoggle...........This is Newsomes last year.

Anyway nice try to make some kind of argument it was a good pick.  We'll just go with the results.

P.S. Ray Lewis scored a 13

 

You won't possibly know if we still need a LT after one season. No possible way you could know that.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

You won't possibly know if we still need a LT after one season. No possible way you could know that.

Right?? Ozzie gets fired bc a draft picks isnt a franchise caliber guy in his first year?? Shoot I guess he shoulve been fired back in '97 when JO wasnt our franchise LT his first year... All GMs should be fired if their picks dont pan out year 1 - I mean Clevelands been doing that for years and look at how good they are. Clearly THATS the management style that Bisciotti needs to adapt before this franchise falls any further into failure.

[jdynamite]

22 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

 

But here are the problems...

1. Its easy for fans to just call for somebody to get fired. It requires no accountability on their part to do it, and they will never suffer any of the ramifications from doing it. Its just too convenient for fans to call for people to lose their jobs when they don't have to take any of the responsibility of finding a replacement and dealing with everything that comes after. To me, that's just lazy.

2. For me, all of this "fire Ozzie" talk is moot, because everybody already knows exactly what will happen the moment Ozzie is no longer here. We've been giving Eric DeCosta more money every single year specifically so he stays and becomes GM in the future. Its literally the least kept secret in the entire NFL.

Now, if Ozzie retires or is even fired, that makes DeCosta the GM. And who exactly do you think DeCosta learned how to become a GM from? Who do you think taught him how to evaluate talent, navigate the salary cap, and how to put together a winning franchise? O wait, that's Ozzie.

So you just replaced Ozzie with... Ozzie. 

I'm seriously questioning whether fans actually understand this concept. And for once, just once, I'd love to hear fans present ACTUAL SOLUTIONS. Problem identifying gets you $30K a year in this world. Literally anybody can do it. My dog identified like 5 problems just this morning. Couldn't solve any of them. Reminded me of this message board instantly.

And obviously no reasonable fan says "I wouldn't draft a player from this team because he didn't play a good schedule". Nothing less relevant in evaluating a player than that statement right there. We got a SB MVP QB on our roster who annually played schools I've never even heard of in college. We got an All-World NT on our roster who went to a school I've still never heard, and he's about to get an 8 figure contract.

Plus, for what its worth, Notre Dame had a top 10 schedule in terms of difficulty in 2015, so kinda hard to say that they didn't play a tough schedule.

I've read your answer and I'm unsure why I was included in the quote lol.  I mean your response is clearly geared towards the other poster who's talking about Ozzie various issues he has about "bad picks". 

 

I have never called for Ozzie to get fired not on these boards or any other media comment section, but at the same time I do not sit on here typing " trust in Ozzie " a million times either.   Ultimately we all will cheer for these players and hope they become the best players they can be.   I mean I doubt any fan is hoping a player fails just to trash talk the Front office.   

Example: some people like to point out how both Elam and A.Brown were failed picks, and i liked both picks when they were picked they just haven't worked out ( also the other 2 players that I liked during that draft aren't exactly lighting it up either Safety J.Cyprien & Lb K.Minter ).  

Some people look back and fail to mention hey they liked the pick, they just pretend like it was some crazy reach of a pick...   

It's not like Ozzie is making picks like WR Stephen Hill or LB Marcus Smith in the 1st round true headscratchers. Lol. 

[RavensFanMania]

23 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

If Tunsil gets all the way to 6, I will type in pink for the next year.  I don't see him getting past 3 and the Jags would be stupid to pass on him as well. 

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Willbacker

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Posted 18 February · Report post

lol now I want Tunsil and Dallas and Clev wont take him. Only leaves 3 spots so.......

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52520Andrew

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Posted 18 February · Report post

I won't do it if something crazy happens like he gets arrested or injured before the draft but otherwise I will and you can quote me when he gets drafted lol. And I wouldn't be angry about it either as we would have gotten my top player in the draft. 

Original post where I said it. Also mentioned it here

 

 

I think a video of him hitting up a bong with  gas mask being released as the draft is starting qualifies as something crazy. @BmoreBird22 @rmw10

I still think your font should be pink considering he fell to 6!

[RavensFanMania]

23 hours ago, acranfor said:

http://www.sbnation.com/2016/3/28/11184656/2016-nfl-draft-breakdown-ronnie-stanley-notre-dame-laremy-tunsil?_ga=1.269135473.1863486421.1424872287

Yes, this was a good read.  I remember reading it when it first came out.  

[52520Andrew]

8 minutes ago, RavensFanMania said:

I still think your font should be pink considering he fell to 6!

So you didn't read the part where I said if something crazy happens then I am not doing it? Would you say his profile being hacked as the draft is starting is not something crazy?

[BmoreBird22]

I could still see Tunsil dropping even without that bong incident. I think teams expected something like this; it just solidified his stupidity

[RavensFanMania]

10 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

So you didn't read the part where I said if something crazy happens then I am not doing it? Would you say his profile being hacked as the draft is starting is not something crazy?

of course I read that.  I still think you should change it to pink.  Not for a year or even a week, but maybe a day or two. 

[52520Andrew]

Just now, RavensFanMania said:

of course I read that.  I still think you should change it to pink.  Not for a year or even a week, but maybe a day or two. 

That I might do at some point as he probably would have still fallen due to the QB trades. Don't want to just pass it off in the middle of summer when no one is on either though. Maybe in one of the game threads lol

[RavensFanMania]

Just now, 52520Andrew said:

That I might do at some point as he probably would have still fallen due to the QB trades. Don't want to just pass it off in the middle of summer when no one is on either though. Maybe in one of the game threads lol

That sounds like a fair trade. 

[atomicfront]

16 hours ago, Danny D said:

Let me see....Man block, Zone Blocking Scheme, Pass Protection on Pass Plays.

How high does a Pancaker need to score?  Le"Veon Bell scored a 17.

I'm calling it here and now........Tunsil will completely out perform Stanley. It will not even be close.

Will you agree if we still need a Left Tackle after this boondoggle...........This is Newsomes last year.

Anyway nice try to make some kind of argument it was a good pick.  We'll just go with the results.

P.S. Ray Lewis scored a 13

 

Jonathon Ogden scored a 35

Michael Orr 19

Yanda 34

Jah Reid 23 

 

 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Come on man, you cant sit here and dog on Ozzie for when he makes good picks, saying anyone could do It then complain about his recent picks.  It isn't like we were picking number 1 every year or something.  Teams all passed on JO, Ray, Reed, Ngata, Bolware , etc... Every team misses picks, EVERY SINGLE TEAM.  Playing the "well this guy was available and out performed the guy we drafted" card is so moot, because you can do that for almost every single pick you make. 

You cant draft HoF players every round, or even every draft, its just impossible.  

But I still don't get the love affair for Tunsil, the guy was injured every single year and yet some people here want us to use a top 6 pick on a guy just so we can get a Monroe 2.0, those people would also be the ones to flip out as soon as Tunsil gets hurt and blame Oz for drafting an injury prone LT. 

It's hilarious, some people forget two years ago we were up 14pts on the SB champs with 4th string CBs, but the sky is falling!

Terrible FA signings I agree. I mean who on earth would want SSr.  You most likely hate all the signings we made this year as well.  So who would you have gotten?

I am more than OK with people disagreeing and not liking moves the FO makes, theres some I don't like.  Its what we are all here to do, discuss the franchise.  But the negative attitude by some on here just blows my mind.  When did these people become Ravens fans? I am not saying that because of the hate for OZ, a lot of posters are reminding me of Jerry Seinfeld, breaking up with a girl because she had man hands, just looking for problems. 

You're not allocating enough emphasis Kubiak's way.  What was the difference between 2013 and 2015?.........Kubiak.

I don't have the time.  I can't wait for Bisciotti to come to the understanding that Newsome is Passe and that DeCosta can't Filter. When DeCosta seriously pointed to lost players as a sign of his success I threw up in my mouth a little.  Do the folks here have any idea how long its gonna take our backseat Cigar chomping owner to realize his top Draft Dog can't hunt any longer and his protégé is a pick hoarder afraid to pull the trigger on big game?  This could literally take a  decade.

We had a QB for the decade, but by the time this is sorted out we're gonna need another one.

[I AM LEGEND]

Ex-Raven says Ravens should have drafted Tunsil 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baltimore-sports-blog/bal-ex-raven-wally-williams-says-team-should-have-drafted-laremy-tunsil-20160505-story.html

[cobrajet]

On 5/1/2016 at 5:52 AM, SuRihtanil said:

Honestly I wanted Stanley all along if Ramsey wasn't there.  I like Stanley's footwork and he is a bull in the run game.  I also like his character the Ravens got some guys with superb character this year.  Honestly, I think Stanley will probably be a Ravens for next decade so we should probably let thoughts of another player go and embrace Stanley 100%.

I would not go as far as to say, "bull in the run game," Conklin and Tunsil were rated better than Stanley, however IMHO Stanley was better than all the OT's in the passing game. IMHO, he is the guy to protect Joe's knee. I absolutely love the pick!!!!!!!!!!! With that said, I really wanted Noah Spence (who was a charater risk) and Myles Jack (injury risk) in the second, but I am slowly starting to get over it.

[JoeyFlex5]

When are people going to just ADMIT that it is lack of big name recognition that makes them hate this class... Tunsil and Stanley were 1a and 1b and Tunsil slightly edged out Stanley so therefore he must be the only option because he was the unlikely guy to fall... But Guess what, he fell, and for good reason, and clearly made Stanley the top tackle. 2 players this close in talent are separated by things like injuries and character, where Stanley blows Tunsil out of the water.

 

Just because Tunsil was once the top prospect doesn't mean he was the top prospect come draft night. Treadwell was once a top 10 pick and vh3 Was considered a lock to go top 8 for months, they fell for various reasons in a long and slow process, but the Tunsil ordeal happened suddenly so nobody had time to sour on him. 

 

Had someone shined a brighter light on tunsils injuries and lack of pro style experience a month earlier, along with the bong vid, everyone would be singing a different tune. 

[I AM LEGEND]

56 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

When are people going to just ADMIT that it is lack of big name recognition that makes them hate this class... Tunsil and Stanley were 1a and 1b and Tunsil slightly edged out Stanley so therefore he must be the only option because he was the unlikely guy to fall... But Guess what, he fell, and for good reason, and clearly made Stanley the top tackle. 2 players this close in talent are separated by things like injuries and character, where Stanley blows Tunsil out of the water.

 

Just because Tunsil was once the top prospect doesn't mean he was the top prospect come draft night. Treadwell was once a top 10 pick and vh3 Was considered a lock to go top 8 for months, they fell for various reasons in a long and slow process, but the Tunsil ordeal happened suddenly so nobody had time to sour on him. 

 

Had someone shined a brighter light on tunsils injuries and lack of pro style experience a month earlier, along with the bong vid, everyone would be singing a different tune. 

Sooooooo Tunsil's injuries and not playing in a pro style offense just came to light right before the draft? 

[JoeyFlex5]

56 minutes ago, I AM LEGEND said:

Sooooooo Tunsil's injuries and not playing in a pro style offense just came to light right before the draft? 

People weren't talking about it much. And actually a lot of leaked info was out there saying teams had Stanley rated higher for these reasons. Whether it was true Or not well never know but there's a solid chance that most teams had Stanley higher

[Winchester]

To me this is a clear pic. Tunsil is a little more dominant and agressive at point of attack. Their feet and skill to catch speed is very similar. Tunsils upper body Is far more matured. Ron Stanley generates his movement through technique. His hands and feet working and hip snap and hip push. Tunsil is more dominant but more raw upper body strength as opposed to Ron Stanley's techniques. You give Ron Stanley similar upper body strength and he is the better player.  However Ron Stanley has to commit to packing on muscle getting stronger in his upper bod/core. To be as good as Tunsil and exceed him

[JoeyFlex5]

57 minutes ago, Winchester said:

To me this is a clear pic. Tunsil is a little more dominant and agressive at point of attack. Their feet and skill to catch speed is very similar. Tunsils upper body Is far more matured. Ron Stanley generates his movement through technique. His hands and feet working and hip snap and hip push. Tunsil is more dominant but more raw upper body strength as opposed to Ron Stanley's techniques. You give Ron Stanley similar upper body strength and he is the better player.  However Ron Stanley has to commit to packing on muscle getting stronger in his upper bod/core. To be as good as Tunsil and exceed him

Tunsil also has to stay on the field to even compete with Stanley. And i'm not referring to his antics, he has to stay healthy which he hasn't done.

[Tru11]

This thread has the potential to make it to page 10.

I believe in you guys.

 

[Ravensfan23]

7 hours ago, I AM LEGEND said:

Sooooooo Tunsil's injuries and not playing in a pro style offense just came to light right before the draft? 

To the public and certain insiders yes. The same way the 2 QBs got overrated at the last moment. I think the issue at hand is the fact that fans and even media don't know much about these players outside of what we see on field and on youtube. The attention of the combine and draft have made amateurs feel like they are pro scouts with all the youtube vids and mock drafts. So you'll hear about a guy being the top rated players for months and as a fan that's all you're hearing, so we believe it. However that doesn't mean that's what Ozzie or any other GM believes because they aren't relying on Mayock or Kiper to lay the ground work on a player. In October we the fans and even the media are fully focused on the season at hand, while scouts and other personnel guys are doing what they get paid to do....scout potential draft eligible players. So Tunsil's injuries, character and style of play may have just popped up to fans and media members but the team already knew. Believe him or not, but Ozzie's reaction to the Tunsil video was that it wasn't surprising. So it sounds like Tunsil's character was always in question for the Ravens. 

Also i'm hearing people like Wally Williams say you can't pass on Tunsil, even with character issues, because of his talent. Well it's not just about talent and what the guy can do for you on field. I would imagine that none of us know what it feels like to be in Mr. B's position in terms of committing millions of dollars to a guy. However if anyone has built a business or worked to build a business you know how thin the line between character and what a guy/girl can offer to help you grow. I've never had the privilege to sit and talk to Mr. B, but reading about his business advantages and listening to him talk about his Staffing companies, he speaks a lot about being able to trust the people you put in place to do what you pay them to do. Tunsil could have been worlds better then Stanley and it probably would have been near impossible to convince Mr. Bisciotti to draft him. A top 10 LT is viewed as your franchise LT and your franchise LT should be trusted to be a leader for the next 10 years or so. He'll set the tone for the entire oline, he should be the guy who is looked to as the explain of is expected of other olineman coming in. I don't believe you have to draft all choir boys and guys with squeaky clean backgrounds but you have to be able to trust the guy you are drafting, especially at the top of the draft and i don't think Tunsil could be trusted in the Ravens eyes. 

In terms of fit, i think Stanley is a great fit, both on and off the field. DeCosta was on WBAL talking about how well Stanley performed vs Clemson despite having the protect on 25 pass attempts in the 4th quarter alone. Also i love his athletic ability to work in space. Trestman will be running a ton of screens and asking this guy to lead block around the edge. I've heard that as a player Stanley was the safer pick while Tunsil had more upside, but it just seems like Stanley really fit what and who the Ravens want.  `

[GrimCoconut]

I think it's funny that people questioned whether Stanley was dedicated based off a rumor and practically hated him as our pick ever since but give Tunsil a pass due to his character concerns of which are clearly evident and substantiated. It's quite amusing.

[GrimCoconut]

8 hours ago, I AM LEGEND said:

Sooooooo Tunsil's injuries and not playing in a pro style offense just came to light right before the draft? 

Fair argument but I recall reading an article written about a month and a half ago how these LT coming out of college struggle and how the lack of playing in a pro style offense reflects that. Not saying Tunsil sucks because I think he was better as a prospect but it was a point someone made.

Edited May 15, 2016 by GrimCoconut

[ellicottraven]

I'm totally reconciled and happy with Stanley. I am actually beginning to believe we may have drafted him regardless of the gas mask video. Just look at the amount of scouting that had been done on him prior to the draft and how little of Tunsil was done. I'm not claiming we always take players we scout heavily, but still. I just think Stanley is a better scheme fit character notwithstanding. He has greater upside in terms of just his physical traits. He can add more muscle and get a whole lot stronger. He doesn't have swagger or bravado about him, but neither did J.O who is perhaps the greatest LT in NFL history.

[Winchester]

6 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Tunsil also has to stay on the field to even compete with Stanley. And i'm not referring to his antics, he has to stay healthy which he hasn't done.

And a player has to actually perform. To much stock is put into a player playing in the game. A player can be available but if he sucks is he really any better than the injured or suspended player 

[Willbacker]

Whose to say Tunsil wouldn't have been picked by the Chargers. That vid could have changed their minds too.

[BmoreBird22]

7 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

Whose to say Tunsil wouldn't have been picked by the Chargers. That vid could have changed their minds too.

Apparently they had like Bosa for a very long time.

[Willbacker]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Apparently they had like Bosa for a very long time.

Well I'm sure they did but its still possible he was their backup choice.

[BmoreBird22]

49 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Fair argument but I recall reading an article written about a month and a half ago how these LT coming out of college struggle and how the lack of playing in a pro style offense reflects that. Not saying Tunsil sucks because I think he was better as a prospect but it was a point someone made.

I think it's entirely fair to question his fit because of Ole Miss's offense. I know a lot of people get very hyped over that five pressure stat, but many fail to realize that it came over 250 snaps and that because Ole Miss runs a read option and RPO offense, it meant that Tunsil wasn't actually "pass blocking" 250 times. 

Often, Tunsil was actually run blocking for the RPO, anticipating a run that could turn into a pass. So, he wasn't actually sliding into protection, just rather trying to drive his man back. It also meant that he would have a combo blocker just due to the design of run plays, so he's getting double teams on pass plays. Also, on many of the options, he was asked to simply get to the second level, leaving his man free to rush, so it limits his pass blocks even more.

Furthermore, his array of blocks is limited as well. I'm not sure he ever executed a reach block in that offense. He was pretty much a downhill, get to the second level type guy, so it's entirely fair to question how he'll translate.

On the flip side, Ronnie Stanley was often on an island with no help and he had erratic quarterback play behind him, something that can really mess up a tackle. 

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

Well I'm sure they did but its still possible he was their backup choice.

When I said that, I meant they liked him enough that he was going to be their choice for months. 

I never bought Tunsil to SD because Dunlap still has three years on his contract and talent hasn't been the issue for them; it's been health. Know who's never finished a full college season and had an injury each year? Tunsil.