Kinda Ticked off about this whole Ravens/Tunsil ordeal

[DenverRaven]

1 hour ago, jdynamite said:

I was pro Tunsil, even considering injury history.  

I mean after all the bad Press Ray Rice, T.Cody dog stuff, B.Pierce drunk driving, the Ravens have tried to have a better image as an organization. I'm sure Steve Biscotti had the final say on whether Tunsil should be the selection following that video, or worth the risk of drafting. 

 

Also the team just had to release Will Hill because of drug violation and suspension, every team knows players " have extracurricular activities " but they still expect players to live to their end of the bargain and pass all test, train and be available to play.   Teams aren't worried about players partying or smoking, it's will he be available to play weekly or will this be an issue where he's suspended missing games.   

You see guys like Dion Jordan, Justin Blackmon, Josh Gordon, Randy Gregory players with potential that can't be trusted and the team suffers when they miss games.    ( Everybody can't be like Lawrence Taylor & Michael Irvin have their fun and still play at an All Pro level every week and not get suspended ). 

And here's the thing, the Ravens are slightly ahead of the curve on this right now. Public image can sway in an instant during the age of social media. While that carries some weight, the fact that a guy may be suspended carries even more weight. If you draft guys with a history like Tunsil, you're taking a risk and opening yourself up to heavy criticism. Sure, maybe he never gets in trouble... But if he does?

Harbaugh has stated that you draft guys based on their play, their passion for the game, and how they they carry themselves off the field. If the Ravens take guys who are slightly more developmental, but have the desire and skill to be 110% better over the long run, while limiting the risk of both off-field issues and injuries, they have a really good chance at continuing a stable, winning franchise.

[trevorsteadman]

So I was reading an article I cannot remember where from but they made a lot of good points that people didn't really look at predraft. I would have rather had Tunsil before Stanley predraft but now looking at the situation I think Stanley might have been better even before the whole cannabis-gate thing. Tunsil has more muscle and is more NFL built as of now, but the offense he played at Ole Miss didn't leave him out on an island to block as much as Stanley. Stanley played in a more pro ready offense which means he may actually come into the league at a higher level than Tunsil. He also may have a higher ceilling (we don't know for sure of course). He is better in run protection and slightly not as good in pass protection. Monroe has been working out (per reports) and is looking good. This is great news. We are not going to cut Monroe because when he does play he is an average or even better than average tackle. Plus the cap savings we would get for cutting him would not be worth it. The amount we would have to pay another tackle of his caliber would be a lot higher. Stanley with his good run protection would also be a good fit in his first season at LG and that is where I see him starting at least. We may be able to actually run the ball this next season. 

[acranfor]

http://www.sbnation.com/2016/3/28/11184656/2016-nfl-draft-breakdown-ronnie-stanley-notre-dame-laremy-tunsil?_ga=1.269135473.1863486421.1424872287

[berad]

14 minutes ago, acranfor said:

http://www.sbnation.com/2016/3/28/11184656/2016-nfl-draft-breakdown-ronnie-stanley-notre-dame-laremy-tunsil?_ga=1.269135473.1863486421.1424872287

Ah, this is the article. Good insight in there - the author is a former Tennessee DE and played 7 years in the league. Good write up for sure, the video clips are a great feature.

[52520Andrew]

If Tunsil gets all the way to 6, I will type in pink for the next year.  I don't see him getting past 3 and the Jags would be stupid to pass on him as well. 

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Willbacker

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Posted 18 February · Report post

On 2/17/2016 at 11:17 AM, 52520Andrew said:

If Tunsil gets all the way to 6, I will type in pink for the next year.  I don't see him getting past 3 and the Jags would be stupid to pass on him as well. 

lol now I want Tunsil and Dallas and Clev wont take him. Only leaves 3 spots so.......

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52520Andrew

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Posted 18 February · Report post

On 2/17/2016 at 1:16 PM, Willbacker said:

lol now I want Tunsil and Dallas and Clev wont take him. Only leaves 3 spots so.......

I won't do it if something crazy happens like he gets arrested or injured before the draft but otherwise I will and you can quote me when he gets drafted lol. And I wouldn't be angry about it either as we would have gotten my top player in the draft. 

Original post where I said it. Also mentioned it here

Yeah still turning my fontpink

 for a year if Tunsil falls to 6(assuming he didn't suffer a huge injury or get arrested or something along those lines). Also would be shocked if he made it past San Diego

I think a video of him hitting up a bong with  gas mask being released as the draft is starting qualifies as something crazy. @BmoreBird22 @rmw10

[rmcjacket23]

13 hours ago, Danny D said:

Legend, you are the supreme poster upon this site. "The Grand Poobaa".  It is not even close. You are all Tunsil and they are all Jack Conklins and Ronnie Stanleys.  You know, hopefuls...little projects. I would never draft a player from Notre Dame unless I was certain he was clearly the best at his position.  Too many scrub games on that schedule.

You are also most certainly not the only person keeping the heat on this selection. Calling it a mistake and holding Newsomes feet to his fire on it. Newsome is a lost dog and we need a  stud Dalamatian to charge into the fire and save our Franchise from burning. A fire that  in fact Newsome started with his careless matches. Yes, others are quickly calling the passes on Tunsil a mistake.  He was there. Somehow, against all probability, he was ours and our Fire Dog was sleeping in the smoke again. Enough of the respect and homage to the man.  Build him a statue, put his name in the ring of honor, but lord, hear our pleas and get him out of our football lives ASAP.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, jdynamite said:

I do agree that some on these boards do lean on " Ozzie knows best" too much lol. We do have a great front office, but it is okay to question and debate over picks, players, etc., I mean why do people get so offended lol. 

With that said I can't pretend like Stanley was my guy, I understand the pick, but I was hoping for a trade back a few spots, maybe pick up a future 2nd or 3rd rounder after Ramsey was taken..   

 

Hopefully there really is virtually no difference between them similar to Russell Okung & Trent Williams  2010 tackle debate. 

But here are the problems...

1. Its easy for fans to just call for somebody to get fired. It requires no accountability on their part to do it, and they will never suffer any of the ramifications from doing it. Its just too convenient for fans to call for people to lose their jobs when they don't have to take any of the responsibility of finding a replacement and dealing with everything that comes after. To me, that's just lazy.

2. For me, all of this "fire Ozzie" talk is moot, because everybody already knows exactly what will happen the moment Ozzie is no longer here. We've been giving Eric DeCosta more money every single year specifically so he stays and becomes GM in the future. Its literally the least kept secret in the entire NFL.

Now, if Ozzie retires or is even fired, that makes DeCosta the GM. And who exactly do you think DeCosta learned how to become a GM from? Who do you think taught him how to evaluate talent, navigate the salary cap, and how to put together a winning franchise? O wait, that's Ozzie.

So you just replaced Ozzie with... Ozzie. 

I'm seriously questioning whether fans actually understand this concept. And for once, just once, I'd love to hear fans present ACTUAL SOLUTIONS. Problem identifying gets you $30K a year in this world. Literally anybody can do it. My dog identified like 5 problems just this morning. Couldn't solve any of them. Reminded me of this message board instantly.

And obviously no reasonable fan says "I wouldn't draft a player from this team because he didn't play a good schedule". Nothing less relevant in evaluating a player than that statement right there. We got a SB MVP QB on our roster who annually played schools I've never even heard of in college. We got an All-World NT on our roster who went to a school I've still never heard, and he's about to get an 8 figure contract.

Plus, for what its worth, Notre Dame had a top 10 schedule in terms of difficulty in 2015, so kinda hard to say that they didn't play a tough schedule.

Edited May 12, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[BmoreBird22]

34 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

If Tunsil gets all the way to 6, I will type in pink for the next year.  I don't see him getting past 3 and the Jags would be stupid to pass on him as well. 

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Willbacker

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Posted 18 February · Report post

lol now I want Tunsil and Dallas and Clev wont take him. Only leaves 3 spots so.......

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52520Andrew

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Posted 18 February · Report post

I won't do it if something crazy happens like he gets arrested or injured before the draft but otherwise I will and you can quote me when he gets drafted lol. And I wouldn't be angry about it either as we would have gotten my top player in the draft. 

Original post where I said it. Also mentioned it here

 

 

I think a video of him hitting up a bong with  gas mask being released as the draft is starting qualifies as something crazy. @BmoreBird22 @rmw10

Sneaky. 

Well, if you believe reports, he was gonna be there at 6, anyway, but I'll concede.

[52520Andrew]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

Sneaky. 

Well, if you believe reports, he was gonna be there at 6, anyway, but I'll concede.

Yeah it is a tough one as I think he very well could have fallen but it is hard to say at this point. I may do it for a week at some point but definitely not for a year.

Also @Inqui is the other one to make the pledge

[ellicottraven]

I remember saying in these posts that if Tunsil were available, the Ravens will cartwheel their pick to the Commish. Alas, I hadn't anticipated his gas mask video surfacing an hour before the draft and I suppose nor did the Ravens. But, having said that, the more I think about how much research the Ravens did for their #6 pick, it is very likely they would still take Stanley over Tunsil regardless of the video. But, then again, who really knows what to believe?

[Ravenseconbeast]

Does not 'irk' me at all.

 

Plenty of players with 'potential' that are better gifted players that never pan out in NFL.  

Pick the right player to help your team.  Lets move on.  Tunsil isn't worth the drama.  

Edited May 12, 2016 by Ravenseconbeast

[Inqui]

30 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Yeah it is a tough one as I think he very well could have fallen but it is hard to say at this point. I may do it for a week at some point but definitely not for a year.

Also @Inqui is the other one to make the pledge

Yeah, that was me as well. And we had the same stipulation that some big unforeseen event (hypothetically, if a video of him doing a bong emerged on Twitter) didn't count because that's always an implied part of the discussion of a player falling. It'll be the same with a guy like Myles Garrett next year.

Fwiw though, I'll admit I still wanted us to take Tunsil when he was there at 6. I won't pretend Stanley was the big no-brainer pick like everyone else is doing (which puts me in an ironic situation after spending the whole draft season in the clear minority of people who actually liked him), but taking him over Tunsil is still nothing to be disappointed about despite the OP's whinges.

[Willbacker]

@52520Andrew You covered yourself quite well. Now who do think isn't  gonna fall to #32 next year.

Sorry didn't mean to doublescreen lol.

[Winchester]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

 

But here are the problems...

1. Its easy for fans to just call for somebody to get fired. It requires no accountability on their part to do it, and they will never suffer any of the ramifications from doing it. Its just too convenient for fans to call for people to lose their jobs when they don't have to take any of the responsibility of finding a replacement and dealing with everything that comes after. To me, that's just lazy.

2. For me, all of this "fire Ozzie" talk is moot, because everybody already knows exactly what will happen the moment Ozzie is no longer here. We've been giving Eric DeCosta more money every single year specifically so he stays and becomes GM in the future. Its literally the least kept secret in the entire NFL.

Now, if Ozzie retires or is even fired, that makes DeCosta the GM. And who exactly do you think DeCosta learned how to become a GM from? Who do you think taught him how to evaluate talent, navigate the salary cap, and how to put together a winning franchise? O wait, that's Ozzie.

So you just replaced Ozzie with... Ozzie. 

I'm seriously questioning whether fans actually understand this concept. And for once, just once, I'd love to hear fans present ACTUAL SOLUTIONS. Problem identifying gets you $30K a year in this world. Literally anybody can do it. My dog identified like 5 problems just this morning. Couldn't solve any of them. Reminded me of this message board instantly.

And obviously no reasonable fan says "I wouldn't draft a player from this team because he didn't play a good schedule". Nothing less relevant in evaluating a player than that statement right there. We got a SB MVP QB on our roster who annually played schools I've never even heard of in college. We got an All-World NT on our roster who went to a school I've still never heard, and he's about to get an 8 figure contract.

Plus, for what its worth, Notre Dame had a top 10 schedule in terms of difficulty in 2015, so kinda hard to say that they didn't play a tough schedule.

I get what you are saying. But Eric Decosta is his own person with his own beliefs,style,personality etc. ... if everybody was exactly like their teacher everything would be the same. Some become better than their teacher while some never come near their teachers status. Decosta learns from the league In general. He picks up on rival teams success and failures as well as Ozzies and draws from it. However Eric and Ozzie share enough beliefs that if this draft and free agent class is a failure, do not be surprised to see a different regime altogether if Ozzie were to "retire" since Biscotti probably would not fire him. Biscotti will consider how many of the failed experiments Eric Decosta was in favor of and actually were his ideas himself. As for who the replacement would be. Biscotti would probably be split between experience and an obscure young bright scouting assistant that is always right but his bosses are to proud to listen to him and acknowledge it. Football coaching, scouting, management is a dirty business!! Intelligent inclined guys are held down for being to good. For the record I do not like the free agent class. However I really like the draft class potential

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, Winchester said:

I get what you are saying. But Eric Decosta is his own person with his own beliefs,style,personality etc. ... if everybody was exactly like their teacher everything would be the same. Some become better than their teacher while some never come near their teachers status. Decosta learns from the league In general. He picks up on rival teams success and failures as well as Ozzies and draws from it. However Eric and Ozzie share enough beliefs that if this draft and free agent class is a failure, do not be surprised to see a different regime altogether if Ozzie were to "retire" since Biscotti probably would not fire him. Biscotti will consider how many of the failed experiments Eric Decosta was in favor of and actually were his ideas himself. As for who the replacement would be. Biscotti would probably be split between experience and an obscure young bright scouting assistant that is always right but his bosses are to proud to listen to him and acknowledge it. Football coaching, scouting, management is a dirty business!! Intelligent inclined guys are held down for being to good. For the record I do not like the free agent class. However I really like the draft class potential

Steve's not dumb. He knows it would be stupid to let DeCosta go at this point. He's being paid like a GM.

I get that they are different people, but their styles aren't much different and neither are their beliefs. They both share similar (bordering on identical) visions for how to put a team together.

That's why, in my opinion, its just not wise for fans to think that firing Ozzie changes anything about this team and the way its put together. Its not like we are all of the sudden going to go out and start spending $40M in FA on somebody else's players. Frankly, I don't even think Steve puts a team put together that way, and so he wouldn't hire somebody that has a different philosophy to begin with.

 

[atomicfront]

Wonderlick scores of offensive linemen in draft.  So Tunsil was the lowest of all the highly rated o-linemen in draft.  Not a good sign.  

 

Laremy Tunsil – Ole Miss – 15 of 50
Ronnie Stanley – Notre Dame – 27 of 50
Jack Conklin – Michigan State – 29 of 50
Taylor Decker – Ohio State – 36 of 50
German Ifedi – Texas A&M – 27 of 50
LeRaven Clark – Texas Tech – 18 of 50
Brandon Shell – South Carolina – 17 of 50
Graham Glascow – Michigan – 34 of 50
Reese Odhiambo – Boise State – 27 of 50
Christian Westerman – Arizona State – 16 of 50
Caleb Benenoch – UCLA – 27 of 50
Joe Thuney – North Carolina State – 39 of 50
Ryan Kelly – Alabama – 29 of 50

Edited May 12, 2016 by atomicfront

[Winchester]

28 minutes ago, atomicfront said:

Wonderlick scores of offensive linemen in draft.  So Tunsil was the lowest of all the highly rated o-linemen in draft.  Not a good sign.  

 

Laremy Tunsil – Ole Miss – 15 of 50
Ronnie Stanley – Notre Dame – 27 of 50
Jack Conklin – Michigan State – 29 of 50
Taylor Decker – Ohio State – 36 of 50
German Ifedi – Texas A&M – 27 of 50
LeRaven Clark – Texas Tech – 18 of 50
Brandon Shell – South Carolina – 17 of 50
Graham Glascow – Michigan – 34 of 50
Reese Odhiambo – Boise State – 27 of 50
Christian Westerman – Arizona State – 16 of 50
Caleb Benenoch – UCLA – 27 of 50
Joe Thuney – North Carolina State – 39 of 50
Ryan Kelly – Alabama – 29 of 50

The dolphins can afford to get him some ginko biloba now that his rookie contract is cheaper. I was not surprised by this. I was thinking about his intelligence to download a playbook and an edge rushers gameplan. I would of guessed Ron Stanley would score about 30. But 27 is fine because he is a dedicated worker evident by his working on a legit degree while playing football. 

Edited May 12, 2016 by Winchester

[rmcjacket23]

43 minutes ago, atomicfront said:

Wonderlick scores of offensive linemen in draft.  So Tunsil was the lowest of all the highly rated o-linemen in draft.  Not a good sign.  

 

Laremy Tunsil – Ole Miss – 15 of 50
Ronnie Stanley – Notre Dame – 27 of 50
Jack Conklin – Michigan State – 29 of 50
Taylor Decker – Ohio State – 36 of 50
German Ifedi – Texas A&M – 27 of 50
LeRaven Clark – Texas Tech – 18 of 50
Brandon Shell – South Carolina – 17 of 50
Graham Glascow – Michigan – 34 of 50
Reese Odhiambo – Boise State – 27 of 50
Christian Westerman – Arizona State – 16 of 50
Caleb Benenoch – UCLA – 27 of 50
Joe Thuney – North Carolina State – 39 of 50
Ryan Kelly – Alabama – 29 of 50

Kind of hard to argue this is relevant though, especially for a LT. 

Center MIGHT matter. 

[Winchester]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Kind of hard to argue this is relevant though, especially for a LT. 

Center MIGHT matter. 

Probably Do not need to be Einstein. But have to be smart enough to learn and anticipate tendencies. I'm curious what Connor McGovern's is?? I like him a lot. And Willie Beavers.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, atomicfront said:

Wonderlick scores of offensive linemen in draft.  So Tunsil was the lowest of all the highly rated o-linemen in draft.  Not a good sign.  

 

Laremy Tunsil – Ole Miss – 15 of 50
Ronnie Stanley – Notre Dame – 27 of 50
Jack Conklin – Michigan State – 29 of 50
Taylor Decker – Ohio State – 36 of 50
German Ifedi – Texas A&M – 27 of 50
LeRaven Clark – Texas Tech – 18 of 50
Brandon Shell – South Carolina – 17 of 50
Graham Glascow – Michigan – 34 of 50
Reese Odhiambo – Boise State – 27 of 50
Christian Westerman – Arizona State – 16 of 50
Caleb Benenoch – UCLA – 27 of 50
Joe Thuney – North Carolina State – 39 of 50
Ryan Kelly – Alabama – 29 of 50

Let me see....Man block, Zone Blocking Scheme, Pass Protection on Pass Plays.

How high does a Pancaker need to score?  Le"Veon Bell scored a 17.

I'm calling it here and now........Tunsil will completely out perform Stanley. It will not even be close.

Will you agree if we still need a Left Tackle after this boondoggle...........This is Newsomes last year.

Anyway nice try to make some kind of argument it was a good pick.  We'll just go with the results.

P.S. Ray Lewis scored a 13

 

Edited May 13, 2016 by Danny D

[JoeyFlex5]

46 minutes ago, Danny D said:

Let me see....Man block, Zone Blocking Scheme, Pass Protection on Pass Plays.

How high does a Pancaker need to score?  Le"Veon Bell scored a 17.

I'm calling it here and now........Tunsil will completely out perform Stanley. It will not even be close.

Will you agree if we still need a Left Tackle after this boondoggle...........This is Newsomes last year.

Anyway nice try to make some kind of argument it was a good pick.  We'll just go with the results.

P.S. Ray Lewis scored a 13

 

Are you mad about the whole coffee thing?

[trevorsteadman]

1 hour ago, Danny D said:

Let me see....Man block, Zone Blocking Scheme, Pass Protection on Pass Plays.

How high does a Pancaker need to score?  Le"Veon Bell scored a 17.

I'm calling it here and now........Tunsil will completely out perform Stanley. It will not even be close.

Will you agree if we still need a Left Tackle after this boondoggle...........This is Newsomes last year.

Anyway nice try to make some kind of argument it was a good pick.  We'll just go with the results.

P.S. Ray Lewis scored a 13

 

I think Stanley will outperform Tunsil solely for the fact is that the Ravens offensive line is solid already and the Miami Dolphins O-line has been awful for Tannehill ever since he entered the league. Add in the Dolphins have 0 weapons. Those scores don't really matter unless you play center and quarterback it seems to be a little better of an indicator. 

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Winchester said:

 

 

  I'm curious how much you rate Tunsil?? And what are your issues with Ron Stanley not ever being as good as Tunsil. Because Tunsil and Stanley are pretty close and the highest rated tackles the last several years. And Ron Stanley has a lot more potential once he packs on 12-14lbs of muscle and leans out a little. He could be the best left tackle in the game. He is similar to Clady in his prime but has stronger legs and hips than Clady. My opinion Ron Stanley with 12-14 lbs of muscle and a little leaner is going to be a force at left tackle!! Something you may want to consider Ron Stanley looks more intelligent and like somebody that is going to work for the ravens and hitting the weights. Tunsil looks like he is taking his paychecks and nfl status to strip clubs!!

First, I'm hopeful Stanley pans out. You have to be, though I never would have selected him before Tunsil.

Tunsil backs folks off the ball.  Stanley is all grasp and grapple and I don't think the NFL Refs are going to let him get away with the holding he did in college. I also don't think the NFL Refs are going to let him start half a count before the ball snap either, which he has a penchant for.  I don't think he is near the talent Tunsil is and all scouts had Tunsil heads above him after the combine agility drills.

We have Stanley now. What are you gonna do?  But there is no  way he was the better prospect. Maybe fate will intervene and it will work out for us. But to this eye Newsome settled again.  He's a settler and in this new era we are no longer the Ravens. We are now the Baltimore Settlers. The Baltimore Compromises.

In the end though, it's not about Stanley. He is what he is. It's about Newsome and DeCosta and Bisciotti. We have a huge problem and at the rate its going, its gonna take years to even begin the fix.

By the  way, its not just Newsome's drafting that is bad. Agree his Free Agent signings since the Championship have been horrific with a couple exceptions.  I thought Daryl Smith played well for us and Kubiak's tight end was a good sign.

 

Edited May 13, 2016 by Danny D

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

13 minutes ago, Danny D said:

First, I'm hopeful Stanley pans out. You have to be, though I never would have selected him before Tunsil.

Tunsil backs folks off the ball.  Stanley is all grasp and grapple and I don't think the NFL Refs are going to let him get away with the holding he did in college. I also don't think the NFL Refs are going to let him start half a count before the ball snap either, which he has a penchant for.  I don't think he is near the talent Tunsil is and all scouts had Tunsil heads above him after the combine agility drills.

We have Stanley now. What are you gonna do?  But there is no  way he was the better prospect. Maybe fate will intervene and it will work out for us. But to this eye Newsome settled again.  He's a settler and in this new era we are no longer the Ravens. We are now the Baltimore Settlers. The Baltimore Compromises.

In the end though, it's not about Stanley. He is what he is. It's about Newsome and DeCosta and Bisciotti. We have a huge problem and at the rate its going, its gonna take years to even begin the fix.

By the  way, its not just Newsome's drafting that is bad. Agree his Free Agent signings since the Championship have been horrific with a couple exceptions.  I thought Daryl Smith played well for us and Kubiak's tight end was a good sign.

 

Dumervil, Forsett, Steve Smith, Will Hill (prior to suspension)... just a couple.

Not all scouts had Tunsil ahead of Stanley... The media "scouts" did, but the guys that are tied in were reporting that the league was almost split on their opinions between Tunsil and Stanley as more info leaked closer to the draft. There's a reason that Todd McShay, in his last mock before the draft, had predicted that the Ravens would take Stanley with Tunsil still on the board. He had info that if the board fell that way, we would go Stanley - and this was before any tape or twitter mess... They had him rated higher.

You may not, and you can side with those that had Tunsil rated higher. I wont argue that its not the majority bc it most likely is... but that doesnt mean that there arent any talent evaluators out there with really good track records that had Stanley rated higher.

If the Ravens had Stanley higher, whatever the reason, they made the right pick. 

And everyone thats said Ozzie drafts have been horrible, and he doesnt have it anymore I still havent had one person be able to do this - name a team or GM that over the last 8 years or so has consistently put together drafts better than ours. List the players taken, draft position, and do a comparison for me. Bc if Ozzie is so bad, it ought to be pretty easy to just pick a team at random that will be better.... 

If you can find a couple fine... im sure there are. But if we're talking 2-3 teams, why would we give up our FO thats definitely top 10, probably top 5, and arguably top 3 even over just the past 8 years; and risk the likelihood that what we end up with on the other side is something a lot worse.

I wont say its perfect, but im realistic. What Ozzie did in his first 5-10 years as GM is near impossible to sustain or replicate. In comparison hes recent drafts havent been on par, but that insane early draft record shouldnt be the standard of comparison. It should be the rest of the NFL, and compared to that hes still well above average.

This is a well-built team still. With health alone we'll return to playoff contention. And if a couple FA's and draft picks pan out we'll be back to super bowl contention. That will show.... and ppl will still find stuff to complain about.

[ellicottraven]

1 minute ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Dumervil, Forsett, Steve Smith, Will Hill (prior to suspension)... just a couple.

Not all scouts had Tunsil ahead of Stanley... The media "scouts" did, but the guys that are tied in were reporting that the league was almost split on their opinions between Tunsil and Stanley as more info leaked closer to the draft. There's a reason that Todd McShay, in his last mock before the draft, had predicted that the Ravens would take Stanley with Tunsil still on the board. He had info that if the board fell that way, we would go Stanley - and this was before any tape or twitter mess... They had him rated higher.

You may not, and you can side with those that had Tunsil rated higher. I wont argue that its not the majority bc it most likely is... but that doesnt mean that there arent any talent evaluators out there with really good track records that had Stanley rated higher.

If the Ravens had Stanley higher, whatever the reason, they made the right pick. 

And everyone thats said Ozzie drafts have been horrible, and he doesnt have it anymore I still havent had one person be able to do this - name a team or GM that over the last 8 years or so has consistently put together drafts better than ours. List the players taken, draft position, and do a comparison for me. Bc if Ozzie is so bad, it ought to be pretty easy to just pick a team at random that will be better.... 

If you can find a couple fine... im sure there are. But if we're talking 2-3 teams, why would we give up our FO thats definitely top 10, probably top 5, and arguably top 3 even over just the past 8 years; and risk the likelihood that what we end up with on the other side is something a lot worse.

I wont say its perfect, but im realistic. What Ozzie did in his first 5-10 years as GM is near impossible to sustain or replicate. In comparison hes recent drafts havent been on par, but that insane early draft record shouldnt be the standard of comparison. It should be the rest of the NFL, and compared to that hes still well above average.

This is a well-built team still. With health alone we'll return to playoff contention. And if a couple FA's and draft picks pan out we'll be back to super bowl contention. That will show.... and ppl will still find stuff to complain about.

I wanted to write a rebuttal to Danny D's assertions as well, but was too tired and sleepy! I haven't really read your whole post but the first sentence made me feel like you were on point! Good night!

[Winchester]

57 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Dumervil, Forsett, Steve Smith, Will Hill (prior to suspension)... just a couple.

Not all scouts had Tunsil ahead of Stanley... The media "scouts" did, but the guys that are tied in were reporting that the league was almost split on their opinions between Tunsil and Stanley as more info leaked closer to the draft. There's a reason that Todd McShay, in his last mock before the draft, had predicted that the Ravens would take Stanley with Tunsil still on the board. He had info that if the board fell that way, we would go Stanley - and this was before any tape or twitter mess... They had him rated higher.

You may not, and you can side with those that had Tunsil rated higher. I wont argue that its not the majority bc it most likely is... but that doesnt mean that there arent any talent evaluators out there with really good track records that had Stanley rated higher.

If the Ravens had Stanley higher, whatever the reason, they made the right pick. 

And everyone thats said Ozzie drafts have been horrible, and he doesnt have it anymore I still havent had one person be able to do this - name a team or GM that over the last 8 years or so has consistently put together drafts better than ours. List the players taken, draft position, and do a comparison for me. Bc if Ozzie is so bad, it ought to be pretty easy to just pick a team at random that will be better.... 

If you can find a couple fine... im sure there are. But if we're talking 2-3 teams, why would we give up our FO thats definitely top 10, probably top 5, and arguably top 3 even over just the past 8 years; and risk the likelihood that what we end up with on the other side is something a lot worse.

I wont say its perfect, but im realistic. What Ozzie did in his first 5-10 years as GM is near impossible to sustain or replicate. In comparison hes recent drafts havent been on par, but that insane early draft record shouldnt be the standard of comparison. It should be the rest of the NFL, and compared to that hes still well above average.

This is a well-built team still. With health alone we'll return to playoff contention. And if a couple FA's and draft picks pan out we'll be back to super bowl contention. That will show.... and ppl will still find stuff to complain about.

While I like this draft for most part. But Ozzies first 5 yrs really is overrated. Ogden was a great pick. But Lewis was very lucky. Ravens were going to draft whatever linebacker fell to them. Ravens needed linebackers desparately!! Then Ozzie hit on some picks a rock could of hit on. Peter Boulwsre stood out as a no brainer. McAlister again ravens were going best cornerback available. Starks was not a good pick. He blended well and played one good year on the superbowl team but that was it. There were 2 cornerbacks drafted round2 that far outperformed him!! Then Travis was a reach and terrible pick. While Jamal Lewis was great for a couple yrs there was a great running back on the roster. Priest Holmes I liked better than lewis. He was a better all around back Ravens would of been better served using that pick on Plaxico Buress, defensive player or oline player. With a dominant bookend to Ogden or legit #1 WR ravens likely would of repeated the championship. Then outside of adalius the ravens did not draft any elite players after round1 from 96-2000. A couple gems round2-4 and again a repeated championship.  Then take into account that superbowl team was not built through the draft only. There were many splash free agent signings as well. A lost art of late by ravens. While I'm against senseless shopping sprees. Ozzies mentor taught him calculated impact signings was a tool for building a championship team. Even the patriots added Revis. He was very instrumental in ravens offensive stall in second half of their playoff victory. If you do not sign an impact player "in his prime"once in a while you are at a disadvantage because rivals are drawing talent from this resource.

 

I do really like this draft class. I like Ron Stanley over Tunsil but not completely. Ron Stanley is close to Tunsil and that is with Tunsil roided up and a far stronger and matured upper body. Give Stanley that kind of muscle maturity and he would be better than Tunsil. But with that said, he actually has to work to build the muscle. Not go through the motions in the weight program but really hit the weights hard and take in protein/nutrition and supplements needed for muscle and strength gains!! Ron Stanley needs at least 12-14lbs of legit functional muscle in his upper body and core to play at his peak or he could struggle in the nfl. He has the higher ceiling but he has to really hit the weights and cross training to hit his potential.   If he hits the training and nutrition he will be better than Tunsil. If not then Tunsil could outperform him. And if that happens friends, Ravens management will get roasted like never b4!!

Edited May 13, 2016 by Winchester

[usmccharles]

2 hours ago, Winchester said:

While I like this draft for most part. But Ozzies first 5 yrs really is overrated. Ogden was a great pick. But Lewis was very lucky. Ravens were going to draft whatever linebacker fell to them. Ravens needed linebackers desparately!! Then Ozzie hit on some picks a rock could of hit on. Peter Boulwsre stood out as a no brainer. McAlister again ravens were going best cornerback available. Starks was not a good pick. He blended well and played one good year on the superbowl team but that was it. There were 2 cornerbacks drafted round2 that far outperformed him!! Then Travis was a reach and terrible pick. While Jamal Lewis was great for a couple yrs there was a great running back on the roster. Priest Holmes I liked better than lewis. He was a better all around back Ravens would of been better served using that pick on Plaxico Buress, defensive player or oline player. With a dominant bookend to Ogden or legit #1 WR ravens likely would of repeated the championship. Then outside of adalius the ravens did not draft any elite players after round1 from 96-2000. A couple gems round2-4 and again a repeated championship.  Then take into account that superbowl team was not built through the draft only. There were many splash free agent signings as well. A lost art of late by ravens. While I'm against senseless shopping sprees. Ozzies mentor taught him calculated impact signings was a tool for building a championship team. Even the patriots added Revis. He was very instrumental in ravens offensive stall in second half of their playoff victory. If you do not sign an impact player "in his prime"once in a while you are at a disadvantage because rivals are drawing talent from this resource.

 

Come on man, you cant sit here and dog on Ozzie for when he makes good picks, saying anyone could do It then complain about his recent picks.  It isn't like we were picking number 1 every year or something.  Teams all passed on JO, Ray, Reed, Ngata, Bolware , etc... Every team misses picks, EVERY SINGLE TEAM.  Playing the "well this guy was available and out performed the guy we drafted" card is so moot, because you can do that for almost every single pick you make. 

You cant draft HoF players every round, or even every draft, its just impossible.  

But I still don't get the love affair for Tunsil, the guy was injured every single year and yet some people here want us to use a top 6 pick on a guy just so we can get a Monroe 2.0, those people would also be the ones to flip out as soon as Tunsil gets hurt and blame Oz for drafting an injury prone LT. 

4 hours ago, Danny D said:

First, I'm hopeful Stanley pans out. You have to be, though I never would have selected him before Tunsil.

Tunsil backs folks off the ball.  Stanley is all grasp and grapple and I don't think the NFL Refs are going to let him get away with the holding he did in college. I also don't think the NFL Refs are going to let him start half a count before the ball snap either, which he has a penchant for.  I don't think he is near the talent Tunsil is and all scouts had Tunsil heads above him after the combine agility drills.

We have Stanley now. What are you gonna do?  But there is no  way he was the better prospect. Maybe fate will intervene and it will work out for us. But to this eye Newsome settled again.  He's a settler and in this new era we are no longer the Ravens. We are now the Baltimore Settlers. The Baltimore Compromises.

In the end though, it's not about Stanley. He is what he is. It's about Newsome and DeCosta and Bisciotti. We have a huge problem and at the rate its going, its gonna take years to even begin the fix.

By the  way, its not just Newsome's drafting that is bad. Agree his Free Agent signings since the Championship have been horrific with a couple exceptions.  I thought Daryl Smith played well for us and Kubiak's tight end was a good sign.

 

It's hilarious, some people forget two years ago we were up 14pts on the SB champs with 4th string CBs, but the sky is falling!

Terrible FA signings I agree. I mean who on earth would want SSr.  You most likely hate all the signings we made this year as well.  So who would you have gotten?

I am more than OK with people disagreeing and not liking moves the FO makes, theres some I don't like.  Its what we are all here to do, discuss the franchise.  But the negative attitude by some on here just blows my mind.  When did these people become Ravens fans? I am not saying that because of the hate for OZ, a lot of posters are reminding me of Jerry Seinfeld, breaking up with a girl because she had man hands, just looking for problems. 

[jdynamite]

22 hours ago, acranfor said:

http://www.sbnation.com/2016/3/28/11184656/2016-nfl-draft-breakdown-ronnie-stanley-notre-dame-laremy-tunsil?_ga=1.269135473.1863486421.1424872287

Great article thanks for the post man. Also got a bookmark for future draft videos from this site ??. ?

[Cillmatic]

5 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Come on man, you cant sit here and dog on Ozzie for when he makes good picks, saying anyone could do It then complain about his recent picks.  It isn't like we were picking number 1 every year or something.  Teams all passed on JO, Ray, Reed, Ngata, Bolware , etc... Every team misses picks, EVERY SINGLE TEAM.  Playing the "well this guy was available and out performed the guy we drafted" card is so moot, because you can do that for almost every single pick you make. 

You cant draft HoF players every round, or even every draft, its just impossible.  

But I still don't get the love affair for Tunsil, the guy was injured every single year and yet some people here want us to use a top 6 pick on a guy just so we can get a Monroe 2.0, those people would also be the ones to flip out as soon as Tunsil gets hurt and blame Oz for drafting an injury prone LT. 

It's hilarious, some people forget two years ago we were up 14pts on the SB champs with 4th string CBs, but the sky is falling!

Terrible FA signings I agree. I mean who on earth would want SSr.  You most likely hate all the signings we made this year as well.  So who would you have gotten?

I am more than OK with people disagreeing and not liking moves the FO makes, theres some I don't like.  Its what we are all here to do, discuss the franchise.  But the negative attitude by some on here just blows my mind.  When did these people become Ravens fans? I am not saying that because of the hate for OZ, a lot of posters are reminding me of Jerry Seinfeld, breaking up with a girl because she had man hands, just looking for problems. 

Lol bro, you know Wincester and Danny D are trolls, right? They're just trying to get a rise out of dudes.

[usmccharles]

Just now, Cillmatic said:

Lol bro, you know Wincester and Danny D are trolls, right? They're just trying to get a rise out of dudes.

Well I get bored at work and I need something to do sometimes.  Ill be damned if I actually work

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

8 hours ago, Winchester said:

While I like this draft for most part. But Ozzies first 5 yrs really is overrated. Ogden was a great pick. But Lewis was very lucky. Ravens were going to draft whatever linebacker fell to them. Ravens needed linebackers desparately!! Then Ozzie hit on some picks a rock could of hit on. Peter Boulwsre stood out as a no brainer. McAlister again ravens were going best cornerback available. Starks was not a good pick. He blended well and played one good year on the superbowl team but that was it. There were 2 cornerbacks drafted round2 that far outperformed him!! Then Travis was a reach and terrible pick. While Jamal Lewis was great for a couple yrs there was a great running back on the roster. Priest Holmes I liked better than lewis. He was a better all around back Ravens would of been better served using that pick on Plaxico Buress, defensive player or oline player. With a dominant bookend to Ogden or legit #1 WR ravens likely would of repeated the championship. Then outside of adalius the ravens did not draft any elite players after round1 from 96-2000. A couple gems round2-4 and again a repeated championship.  Then take into account that superbowl team was not built through the draft only. There were many splash free agent signings as well. A lost art of late by ravens. While I'm against senseless shopping sprees. Ozzies mentor taught him calculated impact signings was a tool for building a championship team. Even the patriots added Revis. He was very instrumental in ravens offensive stall in second half of their playoff victory. If you do not sign an impact player "in his prime"once in a while you are at a disadvantage because rivals are drawing talent from this resource.

 

I do really like this draft class. I like Ron Stanley over Tunsil but not completely. Ron Stanley is close to Tunsil and that is with Tunsil roided up and a far stronger and matured upper body. Give Stanley that kind of muscle maturity and he would be better than Tunsil. But with that said, he actually has to work to build the muscle. Not go through the motions in the weight program but really hit the weights hard and take in protein/nutrition and supplements needed for muscle and strength gains!! Ron Stanley needs at least 12-14lbs of legit functional muscle in his upper body and core to play at his peak or he could struggle in the nfl. He has the higher ceiling but he has to really hit the weights and cross training to hit his potential.   If he hits the training and nutrition he will be better than Tunsil. If not then Tunsil could outperform him. And if that happens friends, Ravens management will get roasted like never b4!!

Curious, why isnt an NFL team employing you as a scout?

I mean, you've known every impact player ever, see the pro bowl potential in guys that go undrafted or are sitting on the bench (Rob Housler, Marqise Lee... if only someone would give them a chance!), you wouldve obviously made every great pick that Ozzie and every other team has made in history while having the foresight to know when they were drafting busts and which player(s) wouldve been better picks, you understand exactly what every prospect needs to become an All Pro (12-15 lbs of that functional muscle!! and HOF here we come)...

I just dont get it - here on the BR.com message boards we have arguably one of the greatest talent evaluators in the world, who has contacts in other scouting depts to get the inside scoop on guys, and yet you dont care to get an NFL GM or Scouting dept head type job and would rather slum it here with all us homer fans.

All I can say is thank you for choosing to share your foresight and knowledge here with us instead of an NFL GM so that we can learn exactly what it takes to build a Super Bowl championship team, while all these clueless GM's and FO's try to figure it out on their own. 

Jokes on them, bc back in '96-2000 when you were (what? 5-10 years old??) you were sitting there knowing that riding Jamal was a mistake and that Holmes was the truth, A childhood prodigy in the making, who as a youngster had talent evaluating chops better than that of one of the greatest GMs in the history of the NFL in his prime.

How are you not in the HoF as a GM already? It's a crime.