Kinda Ticked off about this whole Ravens/Tunsil ordeal

[K-Dog]

1 hour ago, Tank 92 said:

Look at the bright side......... at least you are just "ticked off" and not "haunted".   

Yup.

Thats a winning post.

[donkeyking64]

16 hours ago, Danny D said:

Without a doubt, that was the best post I've read in the years I've posted on this site....Kudos.

I want the best player too and Tunsil was the guy.  We'll see how they pan out, but that likely was our shot to "Re-Ogden".

 

Nope....see below.....

4 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

LOL, ladies and gentleman, this post is precisely why fans shouldn't run organizations. They simply don't get it...

1. Stanley was always "up there". The entire league told you this, so why you are ignoring it, I have no idea. Was he as high as Tunsil? Probably not, but there's also not a single reasonable person or respectable talent evaluator (not fans) on this planet who thinks there's a significant gap between Tunsil and Stanley in terms of talent.

2. Here's what millennials don't get (and I know, because I'm one of them)... its not about smoking weed. Teams probably could care less about whether you smoke weed, as long as it doesn't affect your performance or availability on the football field. Its about decision making. 

I could care less whether he smoked weed. And frankly, I don't even blame him for the video being released. But here's what you simply missed entirely... why does the video exist? Explain to me at what point in time does making a video of yourself smoking weed EVER benefit you as a human being at any point in time in your life? Just name one instance? If he's applying for a job at McDonalds, his employer isn't going to like that video. Not a single possible employer on this planet (maybe a weed dispensary is the exception) is going to look at that video and say "yeah, that's good for business". Its about judgment. Making the video shows you lack judgment. Acknowledging on air that you violated NCAA rules voluntarily the night that you get drafted is a lapse in judgment. 

At the end of the day, is it a huge deal? Of course not. But you got a player with multiple instances of poor judgment, and a player who has significant durability questions (something you fans have harped on for years as a concern for this team). And now you're comparing him to a player who he's more talented to but not by much, and has ZERO of those issues. 

The real question probably is... how do you even justify taking Tunsil there? Cool, he's the most talented. Clap, clap, clap. Simpy isn't enough. There's supremely talented guys who can't find jobs in this league every single year.

3. Your last two paragraphs are actually the entire point, and you actually just make the perfect counterpoint against your own argument. The Ravens have stuck with players who have done dumb things... BECAUSE they are pro bowlers, or top tier players. How exactly do you become a pro bowler or a top tier player? Easy... you EARN it. 

Those players have earned the support of that organization. Guess what Laremy Tunsil hasn't done? Any of those things. He hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt from anybody. You yourself said it... he's a kid. So what has he earned in this league?

Tunsil is getting a chance. Its not like he went undrafted and can't find work. He got drafted in the top 15 players of the NFL draft, so lets stop pretending like we stunted this kids growth or his career. If he wants to make a ton of money and be successful, he has now been given an unbelievable chance to do so.

Stop pretending like this guys life is ruined.

Now this one right here. This is probably one of the best posts on the forum since Danny D has been posting on the site.

Whether true or not, Ozzie said they scouts did a real good job on getting information about Tunsil. I think that was in reference to who he was as a person given his decision making and the kind of people he hangs with and the type of drama he finds himself in.

Would it have made a difference to me personally? Maybe. Maybe not. But if you don't believe Ravens are looking for high character guys, then just look at every draft pick they made in the 2016 NFL draft.

[berad]

DeCosta reiterating that Stanley was (even before the video) higher than Tunsil

 

[jimmypowder]

On 4/30/2016 at 6:50 PM, Im Too Legendary said:

It honestly has nothing to do with the aspect of smoking weed, but rather all to do with the ramifications that come from doing so as imposed by the NFL. First of all, smoking weed is one thing, but intentionally recording yourself and keeping said recording is moronic in and of itself. Regardless of whether or not it was personal, you've got to be aware of your popularity and the negativity that would inevitably occur should said video ever reach the public. You're a prime target for national media attention, you should have the foresight to at least ensure anything and everything that could possibly mar your image is deleted, not merely tucked away.

 

Furthermore you act like as if there's such a disparaging difference between Tunsil and Stanley to the point where Tunsil is considered light years ahead of Stanley in any way. I know for a fact that if you were to own a business and you have two very comparable prospects in front of you for only one available position, you're honestly going to sit there and tell me that you're going to pick the individual whose currently going through a myriad of allegations and issues over the other prospect who is as clean as can be? Yeah, good luck banking your highest pick in over a decade on the notion of "everyone makes mistakes". There's no room for 50/50 in that regard here. 

We're talking game suspensions if caught, did you seemingly forget about Will Hill already? Look where that got him--it's not the act of smoking weed. I'll reiterate it again, it's the consequences that are imposed. This is far and above one of the most idiotic postings I've seen on this forum; you couch scouts are delusional. 

More than smoking weed , it was the fact he left it out there taped! Don't think for a minute the Ray Rice video didn't come up. 

[jimmypowder]

On 5/1/2016 at 2:43 AM, Mahatma_Sloth said:

we passed on jack as well.... maybe an injury riddled failure of a season last year caused ravens to place a higher value on players with durability giving them the edge as far as board ranking goes

Well trust me ,Ravens management has a better handle on Jack's injury than we do .

 

I know they wanted Jack bad but there is talk of microfracture surgery and his longevity as an NFL player being quite short.

[billick]

1. Stanley was always "up there". The entire league told you this, so why you are ignoring it, I have no idea. Was he as high as Tunsil? Probably not,

 

no, I do not think he was, or is now. who was ?

[flynismo]

who's Goddell?

[Guest]

20 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Best post in years?  You must not read too many posts on here.  It's just a difference of opinions, but like the second post in this thread said: two guys for the same position, ill take the one with less issues that's still a great prospect.  Hell, I even mocked Stanley to us before that happened.  We aren't the only team that passed on Tunsil either.

No...not "best post in years".........that was clearly the best post ever written in all my years here.

Truer more timely words were never written.

[raven-flavored-ultron]

I don't get the angst about Tunsil, as others have noted, he is not on some ethereal level above Stanley, Stanley is a super-elite prospect, grades out as a better run blocker, more durable and better character risk then Tunsil. Now it is completely possible that had he been drafted by the Ravens, Tunsil would have been a model citizen, this organization runs that sort of ship, then again, if his judgment is poor, you can't take that risk. There is a stigma that still attaches to the handling of the Ray Rice situation in Baltimore and you can be sure the team is more proactive in dealing with possible embarrassments. You can't just take flyers on the sixth pick in the draft. They made the correct decision.

As for Jalen Ramsey, again, people act as if he is this sure thing. Read his scouting reports, he had a lot of trouble with receivers with great route-running skills. Even someone as gifted as Ramsey has possible downside. In fact, DBs taken in the top 10 of the NFL draft in the last decade have busted out at a high rate. The Cowboys asked for the Ravens' second and third-round draft picks to move up for Ramsey and that's just too much to move up 2 spots when you have elite prospects at other positions of need available to you at the sixth spot and a need for those later picks.

[RavensDieHard21]

Madden Ratings, coming out of college anyways lmao 

Laremy Tunsil: Strength 92, Toughness 92, Pass Blocking 97, Run Blocking 88, Health 82. Factor in the risk of failing drug tests in the future or defaming his step father* 

Ronnie Stanley: Strength 90, Toughness 93, Pass Blocking 95, Run Blocking 91, Health 97. Factor in that he has never missed a game or been in trouble with drugs or violence. 

From a pure talent prospective Tunsil's ability to mirror pass rushers with his light and quick feet is slightly better than Stanley and he is also a bit stronger and more aggressive once the ball is snapped. 

But the thing I love about Stanley is that he still has a lot of room to gain strength in the next few years, which will translate to anchoring against top-tier bull rushers. It will also help in the run game and might help him pack an even greater punch at the point of attack. The thing that I see being a big difference in their run blocking is that Stanley understands his assignment and has great abilities to turn his hips and lock defenders out of the running lane, which will only improve with strength. In comparison, Tunsil knows he is a bully and this gets in his way as he often gets distracted from his assignment by making it a 1 on 1 battle with a defender rather than sealing the edge and continuing up field. \

Stanley is great coming out and his skills are only bound to get better. 

[usmccharles]

2 hours ago, raven-flavored-ultron said:

I don't get the angst about Tunsil, as others have noted, he is not on some ethereal level above Stanley, Stanley is a super-elite prospect, grades out as a better run blocker, more durable and better character risk then Tunsil. Now it is completely possible that had he been drafted by the Ravens, Tunsil would have been a model citizen, this organization runs that sort of ship, then again, if his judgment is poor, you can't take that risk. There is a stigma that still attaches to the handling of the Ray Rice situation in Baltimore and you can be sure the team is more proactive in dealing with possible embarrassments. You can't just take flyers on the sixth pick in the draft. They made the correct decision.

As for Jalen Ramsey, again, people act as if he is this sure thing. Read his scouting reports, he had a lot of trouble with receivers with great route-running skills. Even someone as gifted as Ramsey has possible downside. In fact, DBs taken in the top 10 of the NFL draft in the last decade have busted out at a high rate. The Cowboys asked for the Ravens' second and third-round draft picks to move up for Ramsey and that's just too much to move up 2 spots when you have elite prospects at other positions of need available to you at the sixth spot and a need for those later picks.

I agree with both points.  Tunsil is no doubt more polished than Stanley right now, but considering the off the field stuff and health issues, I think it was an easy choice for the FO.  When I look at Tunsil, for some reason I instantly think of Monroe.

As far as Ramsey, I agree.  I didn't see some huge ball hawk guy or anything too special.  He can play S or CB which obviously makes him more versatile but I wouldn't be shocked if he didn't live up to his #5 spot.  I think Stanley has a better chance of having an overall better career than Ramsey, but I really did love the Jags draft. 

[Guest]

On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 1:25 PM, donkeyking64 said:

But if you don't believe Ravens are looking for high character guys, then just look at every draft pick they made in the 2016 NFL draft.

Which brings us right back to this sites all time great post...

Character is a fine thing, but in an era where few players stay with this team beyond their rookie deal, character is a commodity vastly over emphasized especially at this time of year.  We won't get into the character issues with those making those character issue decisions. 

If Oz had stuck to talent, especially these last five years or so, we would have been a lot better off.  I'm praying this is his last year. He took Stanley, I'll side with Tunsil regarding which produces more.

[BmoreBird22]

So, as far as the Stanley-Tunsil debate goes, the Ravens had Tunsil as top 15 and Stanley as top 4. The Dolphins had Tunsil as their number 8 prospect. The Titans flat out passed on Tunsil after trading up when everyone believed he'd be the number one pick had the Titans stayed.

Basically, fans and the media are overrating him.

[allblackraven]

4 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

So, as far as the Stanley-Tunsil debate goes, the Ravens had Tunsil as top 15 and Stanley as top 4. The Dolphins had Tunsil as their number 8 prospect. The Titans flat out passed on Tunsil after trading up when everyone believed he'd be the number one pick had the Titans stayed.

Basically, fans and the media are overrating him.

I don't think he is overrated from the talent perspective - he is really good player. All the other stuff, mostly durability imo, must have made teams pull the breaks a little and that unfortunate video release was nail in the coffin. After that showed up, I was little surprised he went so high.

Edited May 4, 2016 by allblackraven

[I AM LEGEND]

Lol only on this board......during this discussion.... is Tunsil now overrated...he was number 1 on almost 50 different mock drafts for 3 months...

 

But because Ozzie and them passed on him..he was now magically not even top 15 on the Ravens boards.

LMAOOOO...guys please take the purple shades off... My fault I should have known better than make this topic on this board. People who go against the Raven way on this board are treated like the Antichrist.

 

Who knows maybe the Ravens will bring Will hill back and let him fail his 12th drug test. Oh that's right..it was a low money deal..so the character concerns don't really mean as much...

 

Or maybe Suggs can pour bleach over his girlfriend again and the Ravens will cut him...oh Nvm..he's the face of the team...

 

Let's keep picking on the 20 year olds and  tell them they messed up too much to be on our team

 

[GrimCoconut]

3 minutes ago, I AM LEGEND said:

Lol only on this board......during this discussion.... is Tunsil now overrated...he was number 1 on almost 50 different mock drafts for 3 months...

 

But because Ozzie and them passed on him..he was now magically not even top 15 on the Ravens boards.

LMAOOOO...guys please take the purple shades off... My fault I should have known better than make this topic on this board. People who go against the Raven way on this board are treated like the Antichrist.

 

Who knows maybe the Ravens will bring Will hill back and let him fail his 12th drug test. Oh that's right..it was a low money deal..so the character concerns don't really mean as much...

 

Or maybe Suggs can pour bleach over his girlfriend again and the Ravens will cut him...oh Nvm..he's the face of the team...

 

Let's keep picking on the 20 year olds and  tell them they messed up too much to be on our team

 

Remember this: just because the media rates a prospect higher than others doesn't make that prospect better than others the media rated lower than that top prospect. Case in point, Clowney vs. Mack, Joeckel vs. Lane Johnson, and I could go for many other examples--even Trae Waynes vs. Marcus Peters. Yes, there's times where the media is spot-on, but they've been wrong plenty before. The media hyped Robinson when Matthews came out and he's looked to be the better LT. 

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, allblackraven said:

I don't think he is overrated from the talent perspective - he is really good player. All the other stuff, mostly durability imo, must have made teams pull the breaks a little and that unfortunate video release was nail in the coffin. After that showed up, I was little surprised he went so high.

The video didn't move him up or down boards; that would just take him off.

Talent wise, he's clearly good, but again, 8th and top 15, so it's not like he was this unquestionable best player

[BmoreBird22]

43 minutes ago, I AM LEGEND said:

Lol only on this board......during this discussion.... is Tunsil now overrated...he was number 1 on almost 50 different mock drafts for 3 months...

 

But because Ozzie and them passed on him..he was now magically not even top 15 on the Ravens boards.

LMAOOOO...guys please take the purple shades off... My fault I should have known better than make this topic on this board. People who go against the Raven way on this board are treated like the Antichrist.

 

Who knows maybe the Ravens will bring Will hill back and let him fail his 12th drug test. Oh that's right..it was a low money deal..so the character concerns don't really mean as much...

 

Or maybe Suggs can pour bleach over his girlfriend again and the Ravens will cut him...oh Nvm..he's the face of the team...

 

Let's keep picking on the 20 year olds and  tell them they messed up too much to be on our team

 

1. Mock drafts are media generated, not team generated, so who really cares? Did anyone see Keanu Neal or Karl Joseph going that high? Probably not. Did the media pick Bosa to the Chargers? No. It's stupid to say a mock draft is where a player was ranked according to teams.

2. Two teams have said where he was ranked (Dolphins said 8 and they drafted him) and the Titans flat out passed on him for Conklin at 8 after trading up. That should say something. 

3. Stanley was the unquestioned best player in the draft prior to the 2015 season and teams don't tend to deviate too much from their boards, so if Stanley was high before and during the season, he was high for the entire process.

[allblackraven]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

The video didn't move him up or down boards; that would just take him off.

Talent wise, he's clearly good, but again, 8th and top 15, so it's not like he was this unquestionable best player

Probably. I know he was OT No. 2 on my board.

[BmoreBird22]

12 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Probably. I know he was OT No. 2 on my board.

And apparently on several teams boards if you believe reports that came out prior to the draft.

[usmccharles]

4 hours ago, I AM LEGEND said:

Lol only on this board......during this discussion.... is Tunsil now overrated...he was number 1 on almost 50 different mock drafts for 3 months...

But because Ozzie and them passed on him..he was now magically not even top 15 on the Ravens boards.

LMAOOOO...guys please take the purple shades off... My fault I should have known better than make this topic on this board. People who go against the Raven way on this board are treated like the Antichrist.

Who knows maybe the Ravens will bring Will hill back and let him fail his 12th drug test. Oh that's right..it was a low money deal..so the character concerns don't really mean as much...

Or maybe Suggs can pour bleach over his girlfriend again and the Ravens will cut him...oh Nvm..he's the face of the team...

Let's keep picking on the 20 year olds and  tell them they messed up too much to be on our team

I think it has more to do with health concerns as well.  Tunsil being hurt every single year and Stanley with zero injury issues.  Didn't Tunsil play in a whole 6 games last year? 

[mc_red23]

It's the Titans that should be ticked off, they traded picks to move up 7 spots in the draft to get Conklin at 8 

[usmccharles]

9 minutes ago, mc_red23 said:

It's the Titans that should be ticked off, they traded picks to move up 7 spots in the draft to get Conklin at 8 

Well considering what happened with Tunsil, maybe they weren't the only ones to have Conklin ahead of Tunsil afterwards and thought he wouldn't be there at 15. 

[I AM LEGEND]

8 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

So, as far as the Stanley-Tunsil debate goes, the Ravens had Tunsil as top 15 and Stanley as top 4. The Dolphins had Tunsil as their number 8 prospect. The Titans flat out passed on Tunsil after trading up when everyone believed he'd be the number one pick had the Titans stayed.

Basically, fans and the media are overrating him.

Pretty sure the Dolphins stated that Tunsil was the best player in the draft and they were filled with excitement when he slid to them....but yea I guess #8 prospect sounds a lot better.

[rmcjacket23]

11 hours ago, Danny D said:

Which brings us right back to this sites all time great post...

Character is a fine thing, but in an era where few players stay with this team beyond their rookie deal, character is a commodity vastly over emphasized especially at this time of year.  We won't get into the character issues with those making those character issue decisions. 

If Oz had stuck to talent, especially these last five years or so, we would have been a lot better off.  I'm praying this is his last year. He took Stanley, I'll side with Tunsil regarding which produces more.

Judging by how the "talent" who has left this team in the last few years has performed elsewhere, this statement doesn't appear to be based on anything whatsoever.

I'd strongly suggest you start watching some football.

[rmcjacket23]

2 hours ago, I AM LEGEND said:

Pretty sure the Dolphins stated that Tunsil was the best player in the draft and they were filled with excitement when he slid to them....but yea I guess #8 prospect sounds a lot better.

I don't think saying that the Miami Dolphins, a team that is universally laughed at and mocked for their extremely poor evaluation of talent (both in FA and in the draft, as reflective by their historical irrelevance in this league), had Tunsil graded as the best player is really good for your argument. In fact, that should make you immediately think that maybe he isn't the best player in the draft.

Regardless, none of this matters. The FO already told you exactly what happened. They had Stanley rated slightly better than Tunsil before, and after the events of Thursday, its the easiest decision in the world. 

You can start making huge leaps by thinking that fans now think Tunsil is garbage and blah blah blah... all pointless. Nobody is saying that, but you can keep spinning it if you want to.

As far as your comparisons to Suggs and players who are actually, in fact, already Ravens, I can't help you understand this very simple concept. One is a player for the team already, the other isn't. There's a grand canyon like difference between the two. 

Again, if that's above your comprehension level, that's not my issue. 

[ludy51]

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Judging by how the "talent" who has left this team in the last few years has performed elsewhere, this statement doesn't appear to be based on anything whatsoever.

I'd strongly suggest you start watching some football.

Watching games before making judgments? Preposterous!

Don't you know that nowadays that if something FEELS correct, than it is? No matter what the data says! 

[DenverRaven]

4 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Well considering what happened with Tunsil, maybe they weren't the only ones to have Conklin ahead of Tunsil afterwards and thought he wouldn't be there at 15. 

"Football Insider" Cecil Lammey in Denver had Conklin ahead of Stanley, and on par with Tunsil, but graded them all out pretty similarly. Only one person's opinion, but it was definitely out there.

[usmccharles]

8 minutes ago, DenverRaven said:

"Football Insider" Cecil Lammey in Denver had Conklin ahead of Stanley, and on par with Tunsil, but graded them all out pretty similarly. Only one person's opinion, but it was definitely out there.

I guess anyone can rank players in any way they want.  I think the overall consensus was 1a- Tunsil, 1b- Stanley, 2- Conklin

[DenverRaven]

Just now, usmccharles said:

I guess anyone can rank players in any way they want.  I think the overall consensus was 1a- Tunsil, 1b- Stanley, 2- Conklin

Yeah, it definitely was. Wouldn't surprise me if the Titans had Conkiln a number of spots below Tunsil on their board. But, they made whatever choice was best for them. Overall, I'm happy we didn't take Tunsil in hindsight.