sflegend89

Passing on Myles Jack....

99 posts in this topic

 I'm usually a massive Ozzie/Eric supporter, I'm usually defending them during the draft. Tonight they have done something so incredibly inept for our football team I don't know if I will sleep tonight.

It's this simple, the reward out weighed the risk. It's not like we passed on Jack and got a super polished pro-ready player with no significant risk. Correa has upside but he's a risk himself, he's pretty boom or bust. How do you pass on a top 5 talent risk for a 2nd round caliber risk? We opted for getting a base hit over trying to knock it out of the park. In the 2nd round that's not acceptable. When you get a chance to hit it out of the park in the 2nd round you take it, if you strike out so be it, it was worth it.

Look, Jack could play 1 season and retire, it was still the wrong decision. Because you know what else could happen? He could persevere and be the best ILB in football for 5-8 years. That my friends is called risk-reward and in the 2nd round you accept those two realities with a smile on your face. I envy Dallas and Jacksonville for sharing that mentality with me, they could be totally wrong and neither Jaylon or Myles Jack ever pan out because of their knee's.. but you know what? It was worth the risk. 

Edited by sflegend89
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I gotta disagree. We needed a 2nd rounder that would be a long term starter, and Ozzie and co. must  have thought Jack was more likely to fail than to succeed. A one year linebacker isn't worth taking in the 2nd.

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10 minutes ago, sflegend89 said:

Look, Jack could play 1 season and retire, it was still the wrong decision. Because you know what else could happen? 

Say whu...?

If Jack plays one season and retires, it was still the wrong decision, because he might have, but didn't, play eight years? Isn't that like saying Ryan Leaf was the right pick to make, because theoretically, he might not have sucked, even though he did?

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You are way way way overblowing this and blowing how much of an impact he'll have well out of proportion. he wasn't even the best prospect in this draft - not even the best linebacker if Jaylon Smith hadn't gotten hurt - let alone a world beater. Just take chill pill.

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15 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Say whu...?

If Jack plays one season and retires, it was still the wrong decision, because he might have, but didn't, play eight years? Isn't that like saying Ryan Leaf was the right pick to make, because theoretically, he might not have sucked, even though he did?

The point is you don't have hindsight when you make the pick. There is a worst case scenario, a best case scenario, and somewhere in between. For a talent like Jack you take that risk. Correa is boom or bust, we didn't pass on Jack for a polished player.

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6 minutes ago, VeiledPsychosis said:

You are way way way overblowing this and blowing how much of an impact he'll have well out of proportion. he wasn't even the best prospect in this draft - not even the best linebacker if Jaylon Smith hadn't gotten hurt - let alone a world beater. Just take chill pill.

 

Are you denying that Myles Jack was a top 5 talent? I'm always a "In Ozzie We Trust" guy but they got this one wrong, bottom line. If Jack sat and sat in the 2nd round you may have a point. But a team not only immediately took him, they traded up for him. Risk-reward. Jacksonville felt the reward out weighed the risk, I agree with them

 

Again, Correa is boom or bust, Correa could only be a situational pass rusher his whole career and Jack could go on to be a top 5 ILB for many years to come. The analogy I used really is super accurate. We opted to get a base hit over swinging for the fences out of fear of striking out. I'm of the mentality (as is Jacksonville and Dallas) that the reward out weighed the risk. Jacksonville has been doing a great job drafting as of late, I absolutely think they were on the right side of the Myles Jack debate and we were too afraid of our shadow to pull the trigger.

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I really implore people to watch the tape on Correa as well, he honestly doesn't even dominate against lesser competition. I see the upside but passing on a player like Jack for a 4th/5th and Correa is just not an intelligent trade off. If we took a polished pro-ready player I would understand. We passed on a top 5 talent for a boom or bust player, that is inexcusable. 

 

Edited by sflegend89
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4 minutes ago, CalvinSmoke said:

Nothing you can do now except hope these guys are as coach able as our scouts say they are 

Yeah, I'm pulling for him. I mean even if you wanted to give us a pass for not taking Jack. Passing on Spence is the straw that broke the camel's back. I had him rated higher than Correa by a sizable margin. I hope they just said Correa was higher on their board at the presser to make the fans feel better. Because if that was actually true I have no idea what film they were watching, Spence pops far more on film and is just a higher caliber prospect overall.

 

Best of luck to Correa, hope he succeeds, I just hate the way we approached the 2nd round, 2 major miscues.

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2 minutes ago, sflegend89 said:

Yeah, I'm pulling for him. I mean even if you wanted to give us a pass for not taking Jack. Passing on Spence is the straw that broke the camel's back. I had him rated higher than Correa by a sizable margin. I hope they just said Correa was higher on their board at the presser to make the fans feel better. Because if that was actually true I have no idea what film they were watching, Spence pops far more on film and is just a higher caliber prospect overall.

 

Best of luck to Correa, hope he succeeds, I just hate the way we approached the 2nd round, 2 major miscues.

Noah was over rated bro... Beating up division 2 talent, avoiding contact. He has a lot to learn. It's why he was available 

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1 minute ago, CalvinSmoke said:

Noah was over rated bro... Beating up division 2 talent, avoiding contact. He has a lot to learn. It's why he was available 

Watch him vs Kentucky at EKU. Urban Meyer talked very highly of him at Ohio State as well, basically said all his issues were off the field and he was a stand out talent on their team, an OSU team that was STACKED with future NFL players mind you. I don't think he was overrated at all when you see where he was drafted. He's a guy who could've gone mid-late 1st and nobody would've batted an eye. May not have super impressive combine numbers but he's just a damn good football player. I had him rated above Correa as did the Bucs apparently who don't even run a 3-4 and still took Spence.

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5 minutes ago, sflegend89 said:

Watch him vs Kentucky at EKU. Urban Meyer talked very highly of him at Ohio State as well, basically said all his issues were off the field and he was a stand out talent on their team, an OSU team that was STACKED with future NFL players mind you. I don't think he was overrated at all when you see where he was drafted. He's a guy who could've gone mid-late 1st and nobody would've batted an eye. May not have super impressive combine numbers but he's just a damn good football player. I had him rated above Correa as did the Bucs apparently who don't even run a 3-4 and still took Spence.

He deserved to go in the 2nd round. He was hyped as if we passed on a top 5 talents. Which we didn't but he is good. Just don't think it would have been a great fit. Pittsburgh would have ran to him all year long. 

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Only time will tell. I'm all in on Correa, hope with our coaching staff his explosiveness can be used to mold him into a stud pass rusher. I still don't condone how we played that 2nd round but it's in the past now I suppose, I still stand by everything I said in my OP though. 

At least we're not Pittsburgh who took the two biggest bust risk corners in the early portion of the draft back to back.

Edited by sflegend89
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Calm down and think. You're emotional right now(even though it's only football), take a breather. Maybe some melatonin. You need sleep my friend,

Nobody, and I mean nobody loved Myles Jack here more than me. I've watched 50% of his snaps LIVE, as in in person. I was at the Rose Bowl watching him since his true freshman year. Hell of a talent, but if anything happens to that knee his career has a chance to go into the gutter. I'm not upset we passed on him anymore. Every team did it at least once. He might have not even been on our board. I hope he plays for 12 plus years, but to call this a supremely idiotic move is supremely idiotic. His injury screwed him over. It's a shame really but I understand why we did it. I don't want a Chris Borland on my team. I just don't. KC might be a stud pass rusher for years. Jack himself said somethings about longevity that is damning. 

 

As for Noah Spence. Same deal. This "top ten talent" stuff becomes moot. I watched his tape, he wasn't bad but he wasn't amazing. He had talent, but he wasn't amazing or anything. And the Bucs will still suck btw. You traded your damn third and fourth rounders for a freaking kicker.. You're still telling me you're mad at our draft after that fact? That is SIGNIFICANTLY worse than what we did. Ozzie gambled.. Did he win? Who knows? KC has got loads of potential and maybe with proper pro coaching he becomes a better player.  Spence is  another player who's a drug suspension away from never playing again. 

 

I get the hate for KC, but he's got more pure talent than Upshaw ever had as a pass rusher. Was just poorly coached. Even the most mediocre pro coach would probably do him wonders. 

 

And you don't know you will sleep tonight? My sick father is downstairs vomiting his guts out and I'm going to have to take care of him. I have literally watched friends and family members die right before my eyes. If this makes you lose sleep, and has made this much of an impact on your life then can we trade? Please? Your life sounds wonderful.

 

Sometimes the risk isn't worth it. Think clearly for a minute. Jack goes down during the offseason during practice and becomes Sergio kindle and suddenly he becomes a terrible pick. Ozzie didn't want to go down that road again.

Edited by LosT_in_TranSlatioN
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43 minutes ago, sflegend89 said:

I really implore people to watch the tape on Correa as well, he honestly doesn't even dominate against lesser competition. I see the upside but passing on a player like Jack for a 4th/5th and Correa is just not an intelligent trade off. If we took a polished pro-ready player I would understand. We passed on a top 5 talent for a boom or bust player, that is inexcusable. 

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/kamalei-correa-vs-northern-illinois-2015-2/

He really shines on this tape. Same level of comp. His better film is in 2014 were he had far better numbers but hard to find film. Has tons of potential just hasent been able to put it all together just yet. Suggs and doom will help him with that. Hes gonna be one hell of a player.  

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I had Correa above Spence, and apparently so did the team.  He is raw, but if he was refined then he would have been a top 20 pick.

He was playing out of position a lot of the time at Boise State, playing DE in a 4-3 and even playing middle linebacker on probably 5-10% of their snaps this year). When you saw him stand up on the outside, he beat his man a very large percentage of the time.

He needs to get stronger, learn how to use his hands and he will be a special player.

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Obviously the ravens aren't selling out to win now, they are about long term stability. Myles Jack could very well be out of football before his 2nd contract, and if we don't win it all by then, then it's a massive bust pick. Not to mention if Myles Jack even lasts the whole 4 years will he stay healthy throughout it? He could end up missing half a year every year because he needs surgery every offseason. The ravens still have a sizable window to win multiple titles, and with a team that desperately lacked pass rush for the present and an even more bleak outlook there for the future, we needed a guy who we thought could be a long term fixture. 

 

If Joe flacco has 3 years left and we need to win one, then start selling the farm, take guys like nkemdiche and hope he stays out of trouble long enough, take a Myles Jack and hope his knee holds up, make a fat contract offer to a pass rusher in free agency, but don't do it when your qb has another 8-10 years left. 

 

With the window of opportunity we currently have, we need to put together a team that will consist of cornerstone home grown veterans 5 years down the road, a team full of guys we drafted and signed for the long haul building process, and once the chemistry develops then we're in business. 

 

We just aren't in any position right now to draft guys with massive injury concerns. Especially after what happened to our first round pick and a boatload of other players last year. We need guys who can step in and play all 3 downs(CK can, Spence cant) if suggs gets hurt, we need guys to extend our qbs career and help get the most out of him like stanley, we need to build smart, not sell out to get as many sexy picks as we want even though all logic tells you otherwise. 

 

I think our 2nd round could have been much better, namely by trading up for cravens or alexander, but passing on Jack and Spence for correa I believe was the right move. We avoided injury risks and character risks and avoided the one trick pony and got a high character player with a well rounded skill set.

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1 hour ago, flynismo said:

I like how I got negged for pointing out a very obvious flaw in the logic presented. LOL

Any player could suck. You proved nothing. Tell us again how the Vikings suck and how much better the ravens are.

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14 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Obviously the ravens aren't selling out to win now, they are about long term stability. Myles Jack could very well be out of football before his 2nd contract, and if we don't win it all by then, then it's a massive bust pick. Not to mention if Myles Jack even lasts the whole 4 years will he stay healthy throughout it? He could end up missing half a year every year because he needs surgery every offseason. The ravens still have a sizable window to win multiple titles, and with a team that desperately lacked pass rush for the present and an even more bleak outlook there for the future, we needed a guy who we thought could be a long term fixture. 

 

If Joe flacco has 3 years left and we need to win one, then start selling the farm, take guys like nkemdiche and hope he stays out of trouble long enough, take a Myles Jack and hope his knee holds up, make a fat contract offer to a pass rusher in free agency, but don't do it when your qb has another 8-10 years left. 

 

With the window of opportunity we currently have, we need to put together a team that will consist of cornerstone home grown veterans 5 years down the road, a team full of guys we drafted and signed for the long haul building process, and once the chemistry develops then we're in business. 

 

We just aren't in any position right now to draft guys with massive injury concerns. Especially after what happened to our first round pick and a boatload of other players last year. We need guys who can step in and play all 3 downs(CK can, Spence cant) if suggs gets hurt, we need guys to extend our qbs career and help get the most out of him like stanley, we need to build smart, not sell out to get as many sexy picks as we want even though all logic tells you otherwise. 

 

I think our 2nd round could have been much better, namely by trading up for cravens or alexander, but passing on Jack and Spence for correa I believe was the right move. We avoided injury risks and character risks and avoided the one trick pony and got a high character player with a well rounded skill set.

I can not believe you talked yourself into liking Correa better than Spence. Correa is going to be a substantial bust. While Spence and Correa are raw there is no way you can say Correa has more upside to coach up. He is stiff and weak. Spence gets washed from bad techniques. His is coachable. Correa just plain is missing the the firepower to be an impact edge rusher. How long is he going to suck for before hopefuls acknowledge it is a terrible pick. Spence did a nightclub drug a couple yrs ago when he was not even 20. He is not a drama player that sits around hitting a Bong like Darth Vapor aka Tunsil. Correa can have all the character you want what good is it if He sucks?? Fans are talking themselves into liking these picks. Nobody wanted Correa or Kufusi and now he is better than Spence after ravens draft

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15 minutes ago, Winchester said:

I can not believe you talked yourself into liking Correa better than Spence. Correa is going to be a substantial bust. While Spence and Correa are raw there is no way you can say Correa has more upside to coach up. He is stiff and weak. Spence gets washed from bad techniques. His is coachable. Correa just plain is missing the the firepower to be an impact edge rusher. How long is he going to suck for before hopefuls acknowledge it is a terrible pick. Spence did a nightclub drug a couple yrs ago when he was not even 20. He is not a drama player that sits around hitting a Bong like Darth Vapor aka Tunsil. Correa can have all the character you want what good is it if He sucks?? Fans are talking themselves into liking these picks. Nobody wanted Correa or Kufusi and now he is better than Spence after ravens draft

I have liked correa for a good while and I was not the least bit surprised by the pick because I figured he was on our radar. He is a true 34OLB and Spence is a pass rushing specialist. Correa doesn't get washed in the run game, he moves blockers and rips  pretty effectively, Spence gets absolutely leveled in the run game because he is soft when engaging. Correa also holds up very well dropping into zone and has even played out wide in man for a good chunk of snaps, Spence has done no such thing. Also correas jump off the snap is barely a half notch below spences, and his closing speed, tenacity in pursuit, and functional strength are all better than Spence. 

 

Is Spence a better pass rusher? Obviously. Is Spence the better player? I find it hard to say he is, I'd be happy with a pass rusher, and im just as happy with a OLB who does everything. 

 

5 years from now, correa could be our starting OLB and the leader of our defense, and Spence could very well just be a rotational guy still.

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58 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Any player could suck. You proved nothing. Tell us again how the Vikings suck and how much better the ravens are.

You obviously missed the point of the Vikings thing, just like you missed the point here.. But I don't expect any different from you.

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I'd have took the risk. I'd also a have took the risk on Spence. Tunsil at pick 6 may have been a gambLe, but I'd have taken the risk where miami took it.

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Tunsil, Spence, Jack all have buyer beware red flags. Our picks are talented and clean off the field.

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Seriously, how does a team come away with 2 of the top 5 rated players in the draft? haha. I mean on the face of it, taking away Jack's knee issue. 

Fair play to the Jags for taking the risk. I know we weren't sure on how long Jack could be around in the NFL but he's far more talented than Correa so surely there's a risk there too?

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1 minute ago, mc_red23 said:

Seriously, how does a team come away with 2 of the top 5 rated players in the draft? haha. I mean on the face of it, taking away Jack's knee issue. 

Fair play to the Jags for taking the risk. I know we weren't sure on how long Jack could be around in the NFL but he's far more talented than Correa so surely there's a risk there too?

Building some team. Fowler didn't play a snap last year, malik jackson was signedm drafted Robinson for wide receiver who I wanted badly that year, decent qb. Solid team thatl win that division I think

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6 minutes ago, ALPHA said:

Tunsil, Spence, Jack all have buyer beware red flags. Our picks are talented and clean off the field.

i thought jack was clean off the field as well.

what did he do ?

 

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5 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

i thought jack was clean off the field as well.

what did he do ?

 

Nothing, he's on about his knee.

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