Why all the hate?

[BmoreBird22]

Honestly, I'm not upset with the second and third round picks because from what I've heard, they're really good athletes and that's something you cannot coach up. A player is either athletic or they are not athletic. 

Also, these two guys seem to have great intangibles. They have a desire to play, a desire to be great, and relentless effort. You cannot coach a player's motor or desire. That has to come from within that player. However, you can coach a player on how to use their hands, how to use counters, etc. The Ravens are taking a real chance here, but these guys have the upside and potential to be great pass rushers, from the sounds of it. 

[BmoreBird22]

Also, I think people are being very narrow minded on their approach. A lot of people are comparing players RIGHT NOW. These players have yet to hit the weight rooms, classroom, field, meet with coaches, or really even begin learning. So, someone like Noah Spence may be a better pass rusher than KC now, but will he be in three years when the class is truly judged? I don't know; maybe. However, there is a chance KC will be better down the road and that's what Ozzie is looking for. He is not only concerned with this year; Ozzie is concerned with the future.

[Winchester]

38 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Also, I think people are being very narrow minded on their approach. A lot of people are comparing players RIGHT NOW. These players have yet to hit the weight rooms, classroom, field, meet with coaches, or really even begin learning. So, someone like Noah Spence may be a better pass rusher than KC now, but will he be in three years when the class is truly judged? I don't know; maybe. However, there is a chance KC will be better down the road and that's what Ozzie is looking for. He is not only concerned with this year; Ozzie is concerned with the future.

So ravens have to suck for 3 seasons before acknowledging the team needs a makeover?? Oh well that is where the ravens are going. People realize a double digit losing season makes the ravens a bad team?? With consecutive double digit losing seasons, 3 non winning seasons out of 4. And old roster void of young impact players.

[Italian Raven]

5 hours ago, Italian Raven said:

I just realized both KC and Kaufusi recorded a great 3 cones drill. (6,96 and 7,03).. it probably won't weight as much as on pass-rushers as an indicator of their bending but if we keep walking the same path we might end with Kentrell Brothers at ILB (6,99 three-cones). I throw it in there.

Tavn Young: 6,80 (3rd among CBs)
Chris Moore: 6,76 (5th among WRs)
..and Brothers is still there

[Wildabeast88]

13 hours ago, Inqui said:

Speaking for myself I'm a little underwhelmed by the Correa pick mostly because I spent all this time wanting a clear first-rounder (like Dodd). I'm not saying it's a bad pick, but for me it felt relatively meh considering I spent the weeks before the draft hoping for a first-round talent and we ended up with someone I'd been hoping to land in the third - and we lost out on Spence after trading back twice.

Like I say I don't hate the pick and I'm obviously giving him a year or two to show how good he is as a prospect, but it just feels a little anticlimactic (though fwiw it does sound like he was getting consideration from at least two teams in the late first).

But I'll also say that how I feel about a draft pick is a terrible indicator for how good that pick will be. I remember feeling distinctly underwhelmed by the 2014 class and that turned out to be fantastic. In contrast, I was excited about the 2013 class, and, uh, yeah.....

100 percent how I feel including my general feeling of how good the draft is. However the more I read the more I like the pick still not a huge Bronson fan 

[Geving]

What a terrible draft! Not renewing my gamepass for next year. What is wrong with Ozzie lately?

You'd expect Stanley at #6 to turn out to be a great pro, but I'm not so sure about it.

Passing on Jack and Spence to pick up some mid rounders and end up with KC is a huge mistake.

Day three wasn't bad. Might be a gem or two in between them, but that's hard to say. I expect impact players and playmakers in round one and two though. Hope they prove me wrong, but I believe this draft was a major bust.

We need playmakers for [profanity deleted] sake.

 

[DomMcRaven]

17 hours ago, Deflated Football said:

Great post. I'm guilty of latching onto Spence and at the end of the day, I'm not the one visiting with these guys and watching countless hours of tape so I trust Ozzie and the scouts. I just need to stop getting emotionally invested in some of these college guys and just sit back and trust the front office to take the best player available. I'm all in on Kamalei. 

Guilty of this as well.

For the rest of the bolded statements, this! You know something, I seriously planning on making a "Prospects You Have a Man Crush On" as we get closer to next year's draft. That way, I can refer to that thread while reading the Draft Day threads.

[Sizzlebshu]

5 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Also, I think people are being very narrow minded on their approach. A lot of people are comparing players RIGHT NOW. These players have yet to hit the weight rooms, classroom, field, meet with coaches, or really even begin learning. So, someone like Noah Spence may be a better pass rusher than KC now, but will he be in three years when the class is truly judged? I don't know; maybe. However, there is a chance KC will be better down the road and that's what Ozzie is looking for. He is not only concerned with this year; Ozzie is concerned with the future.

Noah Spence has traits that project to success on the NFL level. He is already built well for the NFL. His game translates. KC does not. This isn't hard. This isn't me being bias. There is no projection with Spence for the most part. He has an nfl ready body, an array of moves. He needs to learn a few things, but they are easily taught. There is a significant and potentially overly-inflated one (projection) with KC. 

Edited April 30, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[Sizzlebshu]

12 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Lmao @ overpriced hardware.

 

I'll say this though Winchester you mentioned Kenneth dixon, and that's my guy right now. Between him, day, and billings. Dixon could be an absolute game changer especially in trestmans offense. Most electrifying runner since sproles.

Yea we have 10 electrifying god tier runningbacks on the roster apparently (liked the dixon pick but come on) 

[Sizzlebshu]

16 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I don't think value outweighs risk when you're talking about a guy who is almost guaranteed to have a short career that could quite possibly be injury riddled. I think taking an edge rusher who does only that is short sighted when considering that our OLB who basically dictates our entire defense is quickly on his way out. We need an edge rusher for the time being, but more importantly we need a guy to take the reins from suggs, if we don't find that soon then we are in trouble, correa looks like he very well has that potential of playing at a very high level in all aspects, including edge rushing, there is nothing wrong with sacrificing a bit of edge rushing for the sake of getting a far more well rounded player, an olb who does it all at a high level is harder to find than just a designated pass rusher. 

Who cares if KC will only be here for 4 years because he sucks. I will take 4-5 pro bowl years of Jack and let someone else blow their cap on him. 

The OLB in our defense is the DPI. He isn't there to cover. He isn't there to stop the run really. The d-line is there to eat blocks so they can make plays in the run and pass, but it's almost a joke to say that their main value isn't as pass rushers. 

I see quality run stuffers signed off the street every single year. Wasting a 2nd round pick on a guy who maybe can do that is the definition of bad. This almost doesn't happen ever with pass rushers. 

You and me have clearly different views on Correa's EDGE ability. He is 25-30lbs underweight for the position which initially red shirts him and makes him a liability against the run. He is going to lose speed putting on that much weight and thats going to hurt his pass rush potential. Considering he will never be a power rusher, that isn't good. 

Edited April 30, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[Sizzlebshu]

14 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I'm happy with Stanley over Ramsey honestly. I was only worried about his commitment to football but his interviews and press conferences have felt very reassuring. My single biggest fear for this season was flacco coming off an acl with Monroe and hurst rotating at LT and watching Joe with no time to throw and getting hammered. 

 

nothing can completely destroy a team quite like having a wet paper bag for an OL, and with no starting caliber LT that's exactly what you have.

Monroe is a starting quality LT. Injuries are his issue. Now we have depth. It's too bad our offense will have to put up 25+ a game because someone on our defense will get hurt and it will cause the entire thing to collapse because we have no quality depth there. 

Smith is already hurt (fantastic)

Suggs coming off an achilles 

Weddle has some injury issues 

No depth at ILB

Edited April 30, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[JoeyFlex5]

9 hours ago, Willbacker said:

In fact Joey Flex will be doing cartwheels when we select Scooby Wright. So no hating.

I'm so relieved we didn't. The tim Tebow of linebackers. 

[JoeyFlex5]

9 hours ago, bcavanagh said:

Because our team is lacking big time play makers and came away with average talent....trading back and passing on Jack will be a bad bad badddddd mistake..I don't mind the Stanley pick now after seeing round two unfold, sickening....

Just because they werent names you were clamoring for all year doesn't make them average talents. 

 

Stanley is an elite talent and fills a huge hole. Correa has elite and 3 down potential over, kaufusi I'm not too big on but he also has great upside and fills a need, and then we NAILED rounds 4 and 5, all good value picks and all filled need and all system fits and high ceiling guys and only 1 player with injury concerns.

 

But sure, let's draft Tunsil and Jack and trade back up for Spence and watch only one of them pan out long term because they all have big red flags.

[usmccharles]

I think its just the fact that we attach ourselves to certain names and get disapointed when we dont get the guy we wanted.  When in reality we dont look into these players as much as the FO.  I would of rather had Cravens here....but i trust Oz. 

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Who cares if KC will only be here for 4 years because he sucks. I will take 4-5 pro bowl years of Jack and let someone else blow their cap on him. 

The OLB in our defense is the DPI. He isn't there to cover. He isn't there to stop the run really. The d-line is there to eat blocks so they can make plays in the run and pass, but it's almost a joke to say that their main value isn't as pass rushers. 

I see quality run stuffers signed off the street every single year. Wasting a 2nd round pick on a guy who maybe can do that is the definition of bad. This almost doesn't happen ever with pass rushers. 

You and me have clearly different views on Correa's EDGE ability. He is 25-30lbs underweight for the position which initially red shirts him and makes him a liability against the run. He is going to lose speed putting on that much weight and thats going to hurt his pass rush potential. Considering he will never be a power rusher, that isn't good. 

You keep referring to correa as a run stuffer and edge setter... I seriously doubt you have studied up on the kid if you really believe that. 

 

Also he is in the 240s, and at 6'2 you think he needs to be 270 and gain 30 lbs? Please. He can gain 10 lbs and he will have the size for it. Stop looking at attributes in a vacuum and see the whole package. He's 240 so he's too small, he can't use his hands well right now so he's never gonna learn, he isn't as explosive as Spence(not true to begin with) bla bla, it sounds ridiculous picking apart these things one by one. Bulking up 10lbs shouldn't be hard for a Polynesian kid who is far from maxed out, at 250 with his explosiveness he will be plenty effective(sum of the parts, not looking at his weight in a vacuum), hands are coachable, he has a better first step than Spence and is overall more explosive, so what if Spence RIGHT NOW can throw hands slightly better and plays lighter on his feet, he better be able to bend the corner on every snap as soft as he plays. You sound so bitter because you personally wanted Spence so badly that you won't even acknowledge other edge defenders.

Edited May 1, 2016 by JoeyFlex5

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Yea we have 10 electrifying god tier runningbacks on the roster apparently (liked the dixon pick but come on) 

No. Don't know where this came from. I haven't liked LT since i realized how soft he runs 2 years ago, i like buck and have since he was at USC but he is far from Dixon's level, I think Richardson doesn't make the team, I think forsett was a system product.. 

 

Any more words you wanna try to put in my mouth? Dixon has been one of my favorite sleeper prospects for a while and he is incredible in the open field and runs with surprising power, and fits like a dream in this offense. Dixon had no business going in the 4th.

[GrimCoconut]

Yeah, I don't see a run stuffer in Correa at all. That's an area he needs to improve IMO. He's not strong enough right now in the run game. The way he uses his hands need work, too, with the technique. 

[Sizzlebshu]

35 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

No. Don't know where this came from. I haven't liked LT since i realized how soft he runs 2 years ago, i like buck and have since he was at USC but he is far from Dixon's level, I think Richardson doesn't make the team, I think forsett was a system product.. 

 

Any more words you wanna try to put in my mouth? Dixon has been one of my favorite sleeper prospects for a while and he is incredible in the open field and runs with surprising power, and fits like a dream in this offense. Dixon had no business going in the 4th.

Hyperbole and sarcasm are lost on you aren't they? The point is we have a lot invested in the position, but honestly no real guy tbh. 

 

 

[Sizzlebshu]

36 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Yeah, I don't see a run stuffer in Correa at all. That's an area he needs to improve IMO. He's not strong enough right now in the run game. The way he uses his hands need work, too, with the technique. 

Eh I disagree. I think Correa will have to gain wt just to hold up (10-15 lbs minimum likely the latter).  Even then, i doubt he will ever have an effective power rush. I also think his speed rush gets hurt by that more than ppl think. I think he gains the weight and is able to make plays against the run. I just doubt he has the moveset, athletic ability at an nfl weight (which he is far off right now,) or the flexibility to be an effective pass rusher or to really have an OLB pass rushing specialty. He will lose speed to hold up in the nfl. He will probably never be a power rusher. Idt he is flexible or quick enough when he puts on wt to be an edge bender.  I think you can teach him to make plays against the run and that with 10-15lbs he can do that better. 

 

[BmoreBird22]

4 hours ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Noah Spence has traits that project to success on the NFL level. He is already built well for the NFL. His game translates. KC does not. This isn't hard. This isn't me being bias. There is no projection with Spence for the most part. He has an nfl ready body, an array of moves. He needs to learn a few things, but they are easily taught. There is a significant and potentially overly-inflated one (projection) with KC. 

He's not especially long and he most certainly does not have an array of moves. He tries to use his speed and quickness on just about every snap. He tries to gain the edge and use a rip move to get around the edge. That's going to get defended well in the NFL if that's all you do.

Doesn't have much of an inside game, not very strong to combat the run, doesn't have great hand usage. 

I do think Noah Spence shows a lot of natural pass rushing ability and there is a lot to like, but he's far from some finished product.

[Sizzlebshu]

6 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

He's not especially long and he most certainly does not have an array of moves. He tries to use his speed and quickness on just about every snap. He tries to gain the edge and use a rip move to get around the edge. That's going to get defended well in the NFL if that's all you do.

Doesn't have much of an inside game, not very strong to combat the run, doesn't have great hand usage. 

I do think Noah Spence shows a lot of natural pass rushing ability and there is a lot to like, but he's far from some finished product.

I've seen bend the edge, use swim and actually display counter moves when the initial one stalls. I'm not saying its a complete toolbox, but he has more than 1. 

Run defense can be learned. Idt he lacks strength at all.

 

I mean to me its simple math almost. Spence played in the Big 10 and did well. He has an nfl ready body. When he played lower competition he did what he was suppose to do and dominate. 

 

Correa has limited opportunity against the Power 5. He doesn't have an nfl ready body. He didn't exactly dominate the competition either. Feels like a man without a true position. Maybe he is a SAM linebacker. Maybe he can kick inside and use that quickness and body he has now to blitz A and B gaps (my personal best fit for him). 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[GrimCoconut]

The one thing I noticed about Spence is he looks like he's got dog in him. I didn't see that from Correa but then again it's hard to really get film on him rushing the passer to say. 

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

I've seen bend the edge, use swim and actually display counter moves when the initial one stalls. I'm not saying its a complete toolbox, but he has more than 1. 

Run defense can be learned. Idt he lacks strength at all.

He most commonly tries to take the edge and use a rip move. He's going to have to learn to go underneath consistently.

He gets pushed off the line too much. Watch Jack Conklin manhandle him in run defense when EKU played MSU. He can chase down plays and play in pursuit, but he does not hold up at the ppint of attack

[Sizzlebshu]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

He most commonly tries to take the edge and use a rip move. He's going to have to learn to go underneath consistently.

He gets pushed off the line too much. Watch Jack Conklin manhandle him in run defense when EKU played MSU. He can chase down plays and play in pursuit, but he does not hold up at the ppint of attack

I mean the same can be said of Vic Beasely and he was a top 8 pick. I don't think you can teach that ability. I think the other moves can be learned and Spence at least knows some of them. 

Again I think run defense can be learned. An Conklin was a top 8 pick in this draft. He isn't exactly getting white washed by Joe Nobody from the Mountain West Conference. 

[BmoreBird22]

13 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

I mean the same can be said of Vic Beasely and he was a top 8 pick. I don't think you can teach that ability. I think the other moves can be learned and Spence at least knows some of them. 

Again I think run defense can be learned. An Conklin was a top 8 pick in this draft. He isn't exactly getting white washed by Joe Nobody from the Mountain West Conference. 

I had similar concerns with the run game, but Beasley was a vastly superior athlete, he was bendier, had a lethal spin move, and his hand usage was further along. Beasley was a lot of potential, but he was a lot closer to being a finished product.

That's a game where I would have expected more from Spence because Conklin has heavy feet and Spence has good quickness, but he didn't dominate. I know Conklin went high (probably too high) and he isn't a joke, but it was just one game that really stood out.

[Sizzlebshu]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I had similar concerns with the run game, but Beasley was a vastly superior athlete, he was bendier, had a lethal spin move, and his hand usage was further along. Beasley was a lot of potential, but he was a lot closer to being a finished product.

That's a game where I would have expected more from Spence because Conklin has heavy feet and Spence has good quickness, but he didn't dominate. I know Conklin went high (probably too high) and he isn't a joke, but it was just one game that really stood out.

Well let's put it this way: If we are poking holes in skill sets, I can poke a lot more in Correa than you can in Spence/Jack. 

[BmoreBird22]

4 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Well let's put it this way: If we are poking holes in skill sets, I can poke a lot more in Correa than you can in Spence/Jack. 

I mever said a thing about Jack, but that may be true at the moment, but the Ravens obviously think highly of KC and think he can develop further. 

[Sizzlebshu]

21 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I mever said a thing about Jack, but that may be true at the moment, but the Ravens obviously think highly of KC and think he can develop further. 

Yeah I know Im just citing Jack since we passed up on those 2 guys + Chris Jones to get this guy and honestly character and injury aside, i'd have taken any of 3 above him. 

Look maybe he can. I hope I'm wrong. I just go by what my eyes tell me and it isn't good. 

[BmoreBird22]

7 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Yeah I know Im just citing Jack since we passed up on those 2 guys + Chris Jones to get this guy and honestly character and injury aside, i'd have taken any of 3 above him. 

Look maybe he can. I hope I'm wrong. I just go by what my eyes tell me and it isn't good. 

I haven't watched a ton, but his speed/agility numbers were off the charts and he's a very motivated and dedicated player. Sounds like he could be another Kruger 

[Sizzlebshu]

10 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I haven't watched a ton, but his speed/agility numbers were off the charts and he's a very motivated and dedicated player. Sounds like he could be another Kruger 

I mean im not sure that his number matter at that weight

 

ogbah went high because he had similar numbers at 270 or so