Why all the hate?

[JoeyFlex5]

We picked up 2 extra picks and got kamalei correa, so let's break this down... 

 

For years now, we have been slow on defense, we have big strong pass rushers and DL who can play tough and push the pocket but we absolutely fail miserably to reach the qb in a hurry. We needed an edge rusher with explosion. 

 

Dodd I think was clearly our target but he gets drafted(remember there are 31 other teams drafting, guys get taken, and you can't trade up for everyone you want). So we trade back twice and pick up some good currency in a midloaded class, and we add... Guess what... An explosive edge rusher. But off with ozzies head for giving us what we want with good value... 

 

If you have watched his tape, you see he is a fit here, he has a first step that rivals anyone in the class, he plays heavy handed and plays like he's got something to prove, he hits hards, he moves fast, he plays with authority, and does literally everything better than Spence except for bending the corner. He isn't a rotational guy, he plays with a hard enough nose to be a starter, he can cover, he can move sideline to sideline, he punches blockers in the mouth and drives them back and sheds very well. Literally the only things holding back his stock was: limited array of rush moves(coachable) and weak conference. Boise also used him in a very wide role, if he was asked to pin his ears back his sack numbers would have been much higher. 

 

So, do you guys just latch on to Noah Spence and disregard every other edge rusher? Because I've done my due diligence on this kid, and he's a good pick and a great fit for us and fills a huge void. He may take some time to really catch fire because he does need to work on consistent hand usage, but Noah Spence has a lot more to work on than his hands... 

 

We wanted an explosive edge rusher, we got one, and we hate it? Come on guys. Due diligence, You may see that correa may not be that big a downgrade from Spence after all...

[Jaybirds]

He can also move around if we have 19 guys on the injured reserve again. 

I think we wanted this guy.  Maybe not more than Dodd, but certainly more than Spence.  I think we already know how we're going to use him, and I think we're not going to be worried about it.  We got faster, we got some more coverage, we got an edge rusher.   I'm pretty happy to build the future around him, Mosley and ZDS at linebacker. 

I mentioned him this morning in another thread.  After the first round he seemed like a guy who would be on our radar.  So yeah, I'm very pleased. 

But I guess everyone here wanted Ragland. 

[trevorsteadman]

Ravens nation is spoiled and it is annoying reading the negativity on these forums it really is. These players are coming here and the first thing they will see is how stubborn a lot of fans are. Not a good first impression. We got one one of the best tackles, if not the best tackle in the draft, we got Correa who is very explosive and is versatile. I could see him playing inside linebacker potentially during his career. People say he is a lot like Clay Matthews in the way he plays. He can play inside and out. Kaufusi is a solid DE pick, I think I would have preferred Calhoun here but I think Kaufusi is a very great guy coming from a school you know he will never have off the field issues. He is a strong worker with a coach as a dad and his best football is ahead of him. 

[trevorsteadman]

1 minute ago, Jaybirds said:

He can also move around if we have 19 guys on the injured reserve again. 

I think we wanted this guy.  Maybe not more than Dodd, but certainly more than Spence.  I think we already know how we're going to use him, and I think we're not going to be worried about it.  We got faster, we got some more coverage, we got an edge rusher.   I'm pretty happy to build the future around him, Mosley and ZDS at linebacker. 

I mentioned him this morning in another thread.  After the first round he seemed like a guy who would be on our radar.  So yeah, I'm very pleased. 

But I guess everyone here wanted Ragland. 

If we really wanted Spence like originally reported we would have not traded down. I think Correa is almost as good as Spence on the edge and has the versatility and tools to play inside. I mean his 40 time is a 4.6. This guy can haul. We got a hybrid player everybody has been talking about. But his name wasn't Myles Jack so people act stupid. Some peoples' hate on here is insane.

[Deflated Football]

Great post. I'm guilty of latching onto Spence and at the end of the day, I'm not the one visiting with these guys and watching countless hours of tape so I trust Ozzie and the scouts. I just need to stop getting emotionally invested in some of these college guys and just sit back and trust the front office to take the best player available. I'm all in on Kamalei. 

[trevorsteadman]

A big reason I also think this has happened is because no defensive back or receivers and honestly we don't need a receiver. Defensive back we could use an upgrade at safety or depth at wide receiver but to me DE/OLB is the biggest need. These guys also are coming from smaller schools with smaller names. People need to wake up and smell the new fresh talent.

[Jaybirds]

1 minute ago, trevorsteadman said:

If we really wanted Spence like originally reported we would have not traded down. I think Correa is almost as good as Spence on the edge and has the versatility and tools to play inside. I mean his 40 time is a 4.6. This guy can haul. We got a hybrid player everybody has been talking about. But his name wasn't Myles Jack so people act stupid. Some peoples' hate on here is insane.

I'm just mind-boggled about how many people we put on Injured Reserves the past two years, how we've never gotten to see Perriman in a real game yet, and people insisted we draft a guy with one knee.  I just.... no. 

There's a couple of other hybrid guys still available: Killebrew, Scooby, Schobert to a degree.  I wonder if people will be just as angry when we get one of them. 

[trevorsteadman]

Just now, Jaybirds said:

I'm just mind-boggled about how many people we put on Injured Reserves the past two years, how we've never gotten to see Perriman in a real game yet, and people insisted we draft a guy with one knee.  I just.... no. 

There's a couple of other hybrid guys still available: Killebrew, Scooby, Schobert to a degree.  I wonder if people will be just as angry when we get one of them. 

I'm pulling for Killebrew

[Jaybirds]

Just now, trevorsteadman said:

I'm pulling for Killebrew

We were talking about him this morning, yes?  Glad I was wrong and he's still on the board.  Especially since we missed Cravens. 

Actually, if I had a complaint about tonight....  it really seemed like our plan was to trade back into the 2nd round.  Or at least the third.  It wasn't entirely up to us; it takes two to tango.  But we failed to execute.  Might not have been the best plan afterall.  But then people would complain about us not trying. 

 

[Sizzlebshu]

11 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

We picked up 2 extra picks and got kamalei correa, so let's break this down... 

 

For years now, we have been slow on defense, we have big strong pass rushers and DL who can play tough and push the pocket but we absolutely fail miserably to reach the qb in a hurry. We needed an edge rusher with explosion. 

 

Dodd I think was clearly our target but he gets drafted(remember there are 31 other teams drafting, guys get taken, and you can't trade up for everyone you want). So we trade back twice and pick up some good currency in a midloaded class, and we add... Guess what... An explosive edge rusher. But off with ozzies head for giving us what we want with good value... 

 

If you have watched his tape, you see he is a fit here, he has a first step that rivals anyone in the class, he plays heavy handed and plays like he's got something to prove, he hits hards, he moves fast, he plays with authority, and does literally everything better than Spence except for bending the corner. He isn't a rotational guy, he plays with a hard enough nose to be a starter, he can cover, he can move sideline to sideline, he punches blockers in the mouth and drives them back and sheds very well. Literally the only things holding back his stock was: limited array of rush moves(coachable) and weak conference. Boise also used him in a very wide role, if he was asked to pin his ears back his sack numbers would have been much higher. 

 

So, do you guys just latch on to Noah Spence and disregard every other edge rusher? Because I've done my due diligence on this kid, and he's a good pick and a great fit for us and fills a huge void. He may take some time to really catch fire because he does need to work on consistent hand usage, but Noah Spence has a lot more to work on than his hands... 

 

We wanted an explosive edge rusher, we got one, and we hate it? Come on guys. Due diligence, You may see that correa may not be that big a downgrade from Spence after all...

You realize we had a chance to draft Noah Spence who is an infinitely better pass rusher than Kamalei or Myles Jack who is a better player than anyone who went off the board today and likely on day 1 as well. Could have taken Chris Jones (a much higher upside guy) 

Correa is an underweight edge setter. He isn't an edge bender. He certainly isn't a power rusher. We aren't playing him at ILB and we aren't running a 4-3. He isn't super technically refined On top of all that, he didn't even play against top competition like Upshaw did.  What's the positive? He's relentless? Who cares. Any idiot can be that or coached to be that. We didn't get an explosive EDGE at all. We got an effort/motor player. 

Bronson was a much better pick. Well coached. Bigger upside. Higher athleticism. 

 

 

 

 

[Inqui]

Speaking for myself I'm a little underwhelmed by the Correa pick mostly because I spent all this time wanting a clear first-rounder (like Dodd). I'm not saying it's a bad pick, but for me it felt relatively meh considering I spent the weeks before the draft hoping for a first-round talent and we ended up with someone I'd been hoping to land in the third - and we lost out on Spence after trading back twice.

Like I say I don't hate the pick and I'm obviously giving him a year or two to show how good he is as a prospect, but it just feels a little anticlimactic (though fwiw it does sound like he was getting consideration from at least two teams in the late first).

But I'll also say that how I feel about a draft pick is a terrible indicator for how good that pick will be. I remember feeling distinctly underwhelmed by the 2014 class and that turned out to be fantastic. In contrast, I was excited about the 2013 class, and, uh, yeah.....

[trevorsteadman]

1 minute ago, Jaybirds said:

We were talking about him this morning, yes?  Glad I was wrong and he's still on the board.  Especially since we missed Cravens. 

Actually, if I had a complaint about tonight....  it really seemed like our plan was to trade back into the 2nd round.  Or at least the third.  It wasn't entirely up to us; it takes two to tango.  But we failed to execute.  Might not have been the best plan afterall.  But then people would complain about us not trying. 

 

I'm really hoping he is one of our 4ths. I also wouldn't be against adding Booker. Great running back still on the board even though it is far from a need.

[Jaybirds]

Just now, trevorsteadman said:

I'm really hoping he is one of our 4ths. I also wouldn't be against adding Booker. Great running back still on the board even though it is far from a need.

I don't think we'll have the picks to spend on a spot like RB where we have so many guys already.  Oh, wait.....

[Jaybirds]

6 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

You realize we had a chance to draft Noah Spence who is an infinitely better pass rusher than Kamalei or Myles Jack who is a better player than anyone who went off the board today and likely on day 1 as well. Could have taken Chris Jones (a much higher upside guy) 

Correa is an underweight edge setter. He isn't an edge bender. He certainly isn't a power rusher. We aren't playing him at ILB and we aren't running a 4-3. He isn't super technically refined On top of all that, he didn't even play against top competition like Upshaw did.  What's the positive? He's relentless? Who cares. Any idiot can be that or coached to be that. We didn't get an explosive EDGE at all. We got an effort/motor player. 

Bronson was a much better pick. Well coached. Bigger upside. Higher athleticism. 

 

 

 

 

We didn't want Spence.  I'm not convinced we wanted Jack, either.  But very clearly without question we didn't want Spence.  It's that simple. 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-draft/Ozzie-Newsome-Explains-Passing-On-Myles-Jack-And-Noah-Spence/1686b7a2-423e-4259-b6ae-f530a2bdec67

Edited April 30, 2016 by Jaybirds

[pitchblack_20]

The only problem I have is I honestly think the FO was hoping players fell to them and they didn't. I believe all of our picks so far have been back-up plans. I just want to see them live on the edge a little and gamble once or twice. Like someone else said every pick is a gamble. 

[JoeyFlex5]

7 hours ago, Sizzlebshu said:

You realize we had a chance to draft Noah Spence who is an infinitely better pass rusher than Kamalei or Myles Jack who is a better player than anyone who went off the board today and likely on day 1 as well. Could have taken Chris Jones (a much higher upside guy) 

Correa is an underweight edge setter. He isn't an edge bender. He certainly isn't a power rusher. We aren't playing him at ILB and we aren't running a 4-3. He isn't super technically refined On top of all that, he didn't even play against top competition like Upshaw did.  What's the positive? He's relentless? Who cares. Any idiot can be that or coached to be that. We didn't get an explosive EDGE at all. We got an effort/motor player. 

Bronson was a much better pick. Well coached. Bigger upside. Higher athleticism. 

 

 

 

 

 

Noah Spence is not an infinitely better pass rusher. He is soft, he gets washed anytime a blocker gets to latch, he's never covered a lick and he is invisible in the run game. Correa has more going for him than being "relentless", he has burst, every bit as much as Spence, the difference is that one bends the edge better because they are lighter in their feet and the other does literally everything else better. 

 

 

 

 

[Sizzlebshu]

5 minutes ago, Jaybirds said:

We didn't want Spence.  I'm not convinced we wanted Jack, either.  But very clearly without question we didn't want Spence.  It's that simple. 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-draft/Ozzie-Newsome-Explains-Passing-On-Myles-Jack-And-Noah-Spence/1686b7a2-423e-4259-b6ae-f530a2bdec67

I get it and I don't have a problem with that. I'm just saying there were several better options at that point and we lost out on pretty much every one of them

[Sizzlebshu]

7 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

 

Noah Spence is not an infinitely better pass rusher. He is soft, he gets washed anytime a blocker gets to latch, he's never covered a lick and he is invisible in the run game. Correa has more going for him than being "relentless", he has burst, every bit as much as Spence, the difference is that one bends the edge better because they are lighter in their feet and the other does literally everything better. 

 

 

Being a run defender has nothing to do with being a pass rusher. Don't care about covering. I'm paying him to kill QBs. Spence may only do 1 trick, but its the 2nd most valuable trick (passing) in the league and not everyone can do it. It has value and is uncommon

 

Unlike everything Correa is and can do

[Jaybirds]

2 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

I get it and I don't have a problem with that. I'm just saying there were several better options at that point and we lost out on pretty much every one of them

So you don't have a problem with us taking the guy we want over the guys we don't want.  Okay, cool.  But then you can't assume there really were several better options at that point.  We got the guy we wanted.  If we wanted those other guys we would have taken them. 

[Edgar]

You know what? I watched Kaufusi in one game two months ago and thought I knew him.

I just watched two games complete and realised in was wrong in my initial assessment and in how quickly I second guessed the picks.

This guy is VERY long. He gets off the ball faster than Buckner. He is a better pass rusher than buckner. Not as strong as Buckner.

His pursuit and motor do not rival Boss's, they exceed his. This guy chases down plays 20 yards down field and never lolly gags. 

He drops into coverage, he blocks kicks, he forces fumbles. He has a burst around the edge. I saw a swim move,  a spin moveand a guy who simply spills his guts. I plan to rewatch these games and to watch the ones I've yet to see so that I can make sure but I think we have an end who needs to add some muscle but is already a pass rusher who will only get better.

I'm so glad you started this topic because I'm thinking a lot of the nay saying comes from such passion in studying these players for months that we build up a picture or scenario that we see as perfect and it might take a few days for a more objective clarity to set in.

Don't take my word for it. Go to draft breakdown and watch Fresno state.You will only need to watch the first half.

Then watch Cincinnati. See what you think.

[Sizzlebshu]

12 minutes ago, Inqui said:

Speaking for myself I'm a little underwhelmed by the Correa pick mostly because I spent all this time wanting a clear first-rounder (like Dodd). I'm not saying it's a bad pick, but for me it felt relatively meh considering I spent the weeks before the draft hoping for a first-round talent and we ended up with someone I'd been hoping to land in the third - and we lost out on Spence after trading back twice.

Like I say I don't hate the pick and I'm obviously giving him a year or two to show how good he is as a prospect, but it just feels a little anticlimactic (though fwiw it does sound like he was getting consideration from at least two teams in the late first).

But I'll also say that how I feel about a draft pick is a terrible indicator for how good that pick will be. I remember feeling distinctly underwhelmed by the 2014 class and that turned out to be fantastic. In contrast, I was excited about the 2013 class, and, uh, yeah.....

Dodd wasn't anywhere near a clear first rounder. He is an older rookie who is a 1 hit wonder. 

Desperation pushed up EDGE rushers

If you think 2014 was underwhelming at the time, idk what to tell you. Mosely was a top 20 player. Jernigan was ranked 14th. 

[Sizzlebshu]

3 minutes ago, Jaybirds said:

So you don't have a problem with us taking the guy we want over the guys we don't want.  Okay, cool.  But then you can't assume there really were several better options at that point.  We got the guy we wanted.  If we wanted those other guys we would have taken them. 

I'm not sure we did. We got a guy we wanted. Whether it was the best one on the board when we were first picking, who knows? 

[Jaybirds]

Just now, Sizzlebshu said:

I'm not sure we did. We got a guy we wanted. Whether it was the best one on the board when we were first picking, who knows? 

Oh I see, gotcha.  I think it might have been.  I know a lot of sites had him in the top 40.  I think we really might have had a first round grade on him. 

[Sizzlebshu]

Just now, Jaybirds said:

Oh I see, gotcha.  I think it might have been.  I know a lot of sites had him in the top 40.  I think we really might have had a first round grade on him. 

Tbh I had a mid-late 3rd round grade on Correa. I think he got pushed up because it was a really weak EDGE class. 

[Jaybirds]

3 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Tbh I had a mid-late 3rd round grade on Correa. I think he got pushed up because it was a really weak EDGE class. 

Possible, I'd have to see more team boards to agree or disagree.  Only reason I mention it is DeCosta said something aout getting two first rounders.  Based just on our draft room, I think we may have.  But the guys on TV won't see it that way. 

 

[Sizzlebshu]

3 minutes ago, Jaybirds said:

Possible, I'd have to see more team boards to agree or disagree.  Only reason I mention it is DeCosta said something aout getting two first rounders.  Based just on our draft room, I think we may have.  But the guys on TV won't see it that way. 

 

Still waiting for a link on the presser

[Jaybirds]

5 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Still waiting for a link on the presser

I never offered one?  Not sure what you mean. 

[allblackraven]

5 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Still waiting for a link on the presser

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/videos/videos/Full_Presser_Ravens_Talk_Day_2_Of_NFL_Draft/57757149-b56f-4616-a9d6-79ad4ef65e5f

Apparently, they are after a high motor defenders running to the ball every snap and not what we were led to believe - edge pass rushers. So, they had Correa higher on the board than Noah Spence.

I like this guy, he is pretty hard nosed and tough but I just can't believe we are going to rely on Suggs coming off a terrible injury and Dumervil who is getting up there in age, after already showing he's completely different guy without Sizzle on the other side.

[JoeyFlex5]

23 minutes ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Hey look it's a guy who doesn't watch any tape at all. 

Being a run defender has nothing to do with being a pass rusher. Don't care about covering. I'm paying him to kill QBs. Spence may only do 1 trick, but its the 2nd most valuable trick (passing) in the league and not everyone can do it. It has value and is uncommon

 

Unlike everything Correa is and can do

Ok but this doesn't negate the fact that Spence and Jack clearly weren't on out boards. I thought Spence was just fine character wise but jacks knee is a real problem for a injury prone team like ours. And you're just wrong. I've watched tape on correa, I am lost as to where you see an undersized edge setter... He FLIES off the ball and may not have elite bend but his bend is respectable and he bullies blockers even if he is smaller. He seriously doesn't lag that far behind Spence in pass rushing and blows him away everywhere else. 

 

If you tell me it's between a 10 sack guy who does nothing else but come in on 3rd down, and an 8 sack guy who plays at a high level in all phases and can play multiple positions.. Im taking the latter. 

 

And I LIKED Spence, quite a bit, but he seriously is not this God tier prospect you make him out to be.

[Sizzlebshu]

4 minutes ago, Jaybirds said:

I never offered one?  Not sure what you mean. 

i meant I havent watched it yet and posted a topic in Ravens Talk. Watching it now. Compared KC to Upshaw lol. Talking about their motors. I havent heard one positive thing said about their physicals at all which is concerning.