Welcome to Baltimore, Ronnie Stanley, Round 1 pick 6

[RaineV1]

Quote

Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald explains that Tunsil yielded the No. 1 spot to Thomas late in offseason workouts after Tunsil made enough physical and mental errors to be demoted. At one point, he whiffed on defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh, who ended up with a clear shot at the quarterback.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/07/04/tunsils-growing-pains-could-keep-him-out-of-a-starting-job/

I knew Tunsil would have some growing pains, but I didn't expect him to be whiffing on people. For someone like Tunsil, that's the worst mistake he could be making, since his athletic ability is his primary selling point.

[ludy51]

Wow. Dallas Thomas couldn't block an artery

[K-Dog]

That's funny right there. 

[Tiznut]

11 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I'm not sure where to put this since the original thread got locked, but Laremy Tunsil lost his starting job at LG to Dallas Thomas.

I'm not sure if you all know anything about Dallas Thomas, but he might be one of the worst guards in the league, if not the worst.

It's unlikely Thomas holds onto that throughout the entire season, but the fact that Tunsil lost his job to Thomas and the fact that Stanley gave the Ravens the confidence to cut Eugene Monroe speaks volumes to those who criticized the Ravens.

It's not yet tc so the talk if him losing a position he didn't have is irrelevant. For all we know it could be a public motivation tool.  not a fan or supporter of his just pointing out you're essentially writing a "told you so" post in July when no one has made it through a padded camp...

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

It's not yet tc so the talk if him losing a position he didn't have is irrelevant. For all we know it could be a public motivation tool.  not a fan or supporter of his just pointing out you're essentially writing a "told you so" post in July when no one has made it through a padded camp...

Clearly its a means of telling Tunsil he has to work hard for it.  Tunsil is not a guard, he is the best Left Tackle in this draft and its humorous how quick people here are to latch onto any little thread to try and believe our guy is better than theirs.

We will wait for the Season Performance and make our final judgements upon Mr. Newsome in regard to Stanley's performance vs Tunsil the man he could have had. We will not judge prematurely, but rather we will be patient and observant of the facts when they come in.  We will not speculate or delve into conjecture, but when the legitimate results are known, if Stanley is not the better player or worse is a liability, it will be time for all to call for Newsome's enshrinement in the Ring of Honor and his retirement from the Baltimore Ravens.  

Let the chips fall where they may.

[BmoreBird22]

49 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

It's not yet tc so the talk if him losing a position he didn't have is irrelevant. For all we know it could be a public motivation tool.  not a fan or supporter of his just pointing out you're essentially writing a "told you so" post in July when no one has made it through a padded camp...

He was the starter at a position where the Dolphins need a clear upgrade. The Dolphins essentially handed him the job straight out of the gate and he lost it. 

Really, do you know a thing about Dallas Thomas? 

Again, I fully expect Tunsil to eventually take it back, but if you knew how truly terrible he is, it'd be horribly embarrassing to lose the job to him at any point. 

[BmoreBird22]

I think Tunsil, and I have said this many times before, is going to have a very tough transition to the NFL. I know, scout the player, not the system, but it's kinda hard not to in this situation with Tunsil and Ole Miss.

If any of you know anything about the Ole Miss offense (I'm gonna guess not many do), it's a RPO offense, or read-pass option offense that heavily utilized run blocking sets as opposed to traditional pass blocking sets. Obviously, as the name of the offense sounds, the quarterback often had the option to read a pass, hand the ball off/pitch the ball, or run the ball himself. Most of the time, a single running play will be called and the quarterback will adjust the play on the fly based on his read pre and post snap, so the offensive line really has no idea what's going on and just blocks for a run play. This certainly made Tunsil's job as a pass protector easier to just go downhill on his man.

Not to mention that due to the nature of the RPO and the need for an athletic quarterback, Tunsil was bailed out by Chad Kelly a fair amount for someone who is praised for only letting up five pressures. Had Tunsil had a less athletic quarterback, like a Tom Brady or Drew Brees, he'd have had far more pressures given up and certainly a few sacks. 

Tunsil was hardly asked to do a reach block and more commonly just went straight man to man. He was also never asked to double team, which may sound like it'll be an easy transition, but understanding when one of the two players is supposed to get off the block and get to the second level and when one is supposed to stay on can be difficult for two players, especially if one has never done it before. 

Tunsil needs to get a lot better about being more aggressive and powerful with his punches. He allows players to take his edge because he doesn't redirect them with his initial punch. He also lacks requisite lower body strength, so against someone as strong as a Terrell Suggs, bull rushes could become an issue when trying to anchor.

He's got the elite athletecism teams will look for, but playing in a RPO spread offense with very few blocks to make is going to hurt him. He's not some flawless prospect that many make him out to be. He has issues.

Kinda want to see if @The Raven has anything to add since he knows far more about offensive lineman than I do.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

9 hours ago, Danny D said:

Clearly its a means of telling Tunsil he has to work hard for it.  Tunsil is not a guard, he is the best Left Tackle in this draft and its humorous how quick people here are to latch onto any little thread to try and believe our guy is better than theirs.

We will wait for the Season Performance and make our final judgements upon Mr. Newsome in regard to Stanley's performance vs Tunsil the man he could have had. We will not judge prematurely, but rather we will be patient and observant of the facts when they come in.  We will not speculate or delve into conjecture, but when the legitimate results are known, if Stanley is not the better player or worse is a liability, it will be time for all to call for Newsome's enshrinement in the Ring of Honor and his retirement from the Baltimore Ravens.  

Let the chips fall where they may.

This, coming from the guy who said right after the draft that if Stanley isnt the starter at LT by week 3 he's a bust.

[Tiznut]

10 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

He was the starter at a position where the Dolphins need a clear upgrade. The Dolphins essentially handed him the job straight out of the gate and he lost it. 

Really, do you know a thing about Dallas Thomas? 

Again, I fully expect Tunsil to eventually take it back, but if you knew how truly terrible he is, it'd be horribly embarrassing to lose the job to him at any point. 

It's July. 

[BmoreBird22]

22 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

It's July. 

It is and he looks to be having a rough transition

[757RavensFan]

24 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

It's July. 

Agreed.   I think its very premature to judge Tunsil's ability just b/c they have him on 2nd string from OTA's and mini camp. 

it could be something as simple as him not knowing the blocking schemes yet.  As far as we know, it could be just a motivational

tactic used by the coaches to make sure he stays humble and hungry.  

[BmoreBird22]

3 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

Agreed.   I think its very premature to judge Tunsil's ability just b/c they have him on 2nd string from OTA's and mini camp. 

it could be something as simple as him not knowing the blocking schemes yet.  As far as we know, it could be just a motivational

tactic used by the coaches to make sure he stays humble and hungry.  

He got demoted from first team to second team in favor of possibly the worst guard in the league when Tunsil was practically handed the job.

I could believe he doesn't know the schemes because he came from a very simple offense, but it's still a bit worrisome 

[GrimCoconut]

@BmoreBird22

I recall reading in an article before the draft reasons why the LT recently drafted high haven't panned out. It was @Inqui who introduced me to the article. While I admit it didn't change my opinion overnight,  my opinion did change over time for various reasons. The article is listed below: 

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/02/24/nfl-draft-combine-offensive-tackles-history

First,  I went back and looked at Tunsil and realized the rationale provided in the  article was accurate. LT are coming from the spread a lot more than they once did. This could be partly why we chose Stanley over Tunsil since Stanley came from a more traditional offense. 

Second,  Tunsil's behavior issues I once thought were trivial became more apparently not. Even before the bong incident there were signs coming out of his immaturity,  all culminating with the bong video. 

I think we made the right pick right now over the two. 

[Winchester]

On 4/29/2016 at 6:30 AM, 757RavensFan said:

1 hour ago, GrimCoconut said:

@BmoreBird22

I recall reading in an article before the draft reasons why the LT recently drafted high haven't panned out. It was @Inqui who introduced me to the article. While I admit it didn't change my opinion overnight,  my opinion did change over time for various reasons. The article is listed below: 

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/02/24/nfl-draft-combine-offensive-tackles-history

First,  I went back and looked at Tunsil and realized the rationale provided in the  article was accurate. LT are coming from the spread a lot more than they once did. This could be partly why we chose Stanley over Tunsil since Stanley came from a more traditional offense. 

Second,  Tunsil's behavior issues I once thought were trivial became more apparently not. Even before the bong incident there were signs coming out of his immaturity,  all culminating with the bong video. 

I think we made the right pick right now over the two. 

Good article grim. Iniqui is the man. He finds some swesome articles. Lunch is about over and I have not eaten yet. Son I can't test to deep. Anyways one point I disagree on a little. Saying these guys can't match athleticism.  The busts are very athletic.  Athletic as the 95-2000 studs (everything was cooler that era,music,sports....) Anyways the couple probs I see are #1 power. The tackle is not going to be quite as fast as the edge rusher so he has to compensate. The tackles in the article were physical specimens. When those guys  Like tyron Smith got their hands on the rusher it was over!! Or landed a punch it knocked the rusher off balance. These guys are bigger but not much stronger than the rusher. Similar athletes but Lane Johnson has got stronger. Joeckel,kalil, Fisher not so much. Is it any coincidence Johnson really impresses the eye test against rushers?? Then there is technique,instincts and feel for blocking which is matured through reps in a pro style offense. Will finish this later.

[rmcjacket23]

13 hours ago, Danny D said:

Clearly its a means of telling Tunsil he has to work hard for it.  Tunsil is not a guard, he is the best Left Tackle in this draft and its humorous how quick people here are to latch onto any little thread to try and believe our guy is better than theirs.

We will wait for the Season Performance and make our final judgements upon Mr. Newsome in regard to Stanley's performance vs Tunsil the man he could have had. We will not judge prematurely, but rather we will be patient and observant of the facts when they come in.  We will not speculate or delve into conjecture, but when the legitimate results are known, if Stanley is not the better player or worse is a liability, it will be time for all to call for Newsome's enshrinement in the Ring of Honor and his retirement from the Baltimore Ravens.  

Let the chips fall where they may.

Cool.

So we shouldn't address this discussion again for at least another 3 years, since that will be the minimum amount of time required in order to determine who is better between the two. That means you don't get to come back in here after year 1 or even month 1 and say "Tunsil is better than Stanley". That certainly would be classified as judging prematurely, and be considered speculation and conjecture.

I do find it amusing though that you take this position now, particularly when the horse you are backing appears to be behind in the race.

 

Edited July 6, 2016 by Moderator 3
Play nicely, please

[RaineV1]

13 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

@BmoreBird22

I recall reading in an article before the draft reasons why the LT recently drafted high haven't panned out. It was @Inqui who introduced me to the article. While I admit it didn't change my opinion overnight,  my opinion did change over time for various reasons. The article is listed below: 

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/02/24/nfl-draft-combine-offensive-tackles-history

First,  I went back and looked at Tunsil and realized the rationale provided in the  article was accurate. LT are coming from the spread a lot more than they once did. This could be partly why we chose Stanley over Tunsil since Stanley came from a more traditional offense. 

Second,  Tunsil's behavior issues I once thought were trivial became more apparently not. Even before the bong incident there were signs coming out of his immaturity,  all culminating with the bong video. 

I think we made the right pick right now over the two. 

I agree with this. The spread offense just asks different things from its tackles than a pro one does. I still think it's sometimes worth grabbing the great athletes when you can, but you haven't to be ready for it to a long term investment, not a quick fix. Since the Ravens really wanted someone that could take the job from Monroe, it makes sense they take someone from a pro style offense instead.

[Inqui]

14 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

@BmoreBird22

I recall reading in an article before the draft reasons why the LT recently drafted high haven't panned out. It was @Inqui who introduced me to the article. While I admit it didn't change my opinion overnight,  my opinion did change over time for various reasons. The article is listed below: 

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/02/24/nfl-draft-combine-offensive-tackles-history

First,  I went back and looked at Tunsil and realized the rationale provided in the  article was accurate. LT are coming from the spread a lot more than they once did. This could be partly why we chose Stanley over Tunsil since Stanley came from a more traditional offense. 

Second,  Tunsil's behavior issues I once thought were trivial became more apparently not. Even before the bong incident there were signs coming out of his immaturity,  all culminating with the bong video. 

I think we made the right pick right now over the two. 

I don't remember that particular article, but we did talk at length about that kinda thing and why Notre Dame is quietly becoming an OL factory. Good for us to get on that particular gravy train before everyone else notices. Of course it's not just OL players who struggle coming from the spread to an NFL system, so I think it's a legit concern for prospects and a big reason to be confident in Stanley.

I agree that, all things considered, we seem to have made the right call between the two. My Jags in the forum mock, on the other hand... 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Cool.

So we shouldn't address this discussion again for at least another 3 years, since that will be the minimum amount of time required in order to determine who is better between the two. That means you don't get to come back in here after year 1 or even month 1 and say "Tunsil is better than Stanley". That certainly would be classified as judging prematurely, and be considered speculation and conjecture.

I do find it amusing though that you take this position now, particularly when the horse you are backing appears to be behind in the race.

 

I'm very high on my pick over the one our future Ring of Honor inductee chose.  We certainly will not need 3 years to determine who laid an egg. As I stated we will know when the results from the season roll in and when they roll in I will be extremely vocal.  My guy may take the Jonathon Ogden route, but Newsomes guy is slated to start at left tackle. With him at least we will know very soon. 

Don't listen to the "Front Office" or Pro Football Focus nonsense about needing years to determine if remnant or residual talent is present. Some positions are so skill intensive you know immediately.  Rashad Melvin for instance.  A corner can cover or he cannot. A safety can tackle and has a nose for the ball or not. An outside linebacker can get to the passer or he cannot.  A tackle can keep a QB upright or he cannot.  A tackle can move a man off the spot or he cannot.

We will know very soon, no later than the end of September.

One last thing must be said here. It was an egregious case of malfeasance to not put Stanley in at least a one year position of NFL orientation with a veteran/mentor that could smooth the bumps.  Its Deja Vu all over again, but really isn't surprising any longer.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2016 by Danny D

[BmoreBird22]

53 minutes ago, Danny D said:

I'm very high on my pick over the one our future Ring of Honor inductee chose.  We certainly will not need 3 years to determine who laid an egg. As I stated we will know when the results from the season roll in and when they roll in I will be extremely vocal.  My guy may take the Jonathon Ogden route, but Newsomes guy is slated to start at left tackle. With him at least we will know very soon.

Okay, so why is Laremy Tunsil going to do so well?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Okay, so why is Laremy Tunsil going to do so well?

He's going to do well because the video that scared us away is not credible.  He's going to do well because the Dolphins had the type of talk with him, we should have had.  He's going to struggle with switching assignments at first especially at Guard. But he' going to be able to contain Suh when he's blocking him one on one. And he will clear road.

The tackle results may come in more slowly for Tunsil and that may be the delay in reaching the final conclusion. But they'll come in quickly for Stanley with the current plan.

[rmw10]

4 minutes ago, Danny D said:

He's going to do well because the video that scared us away is not credible.  He's going to do well because the Dolphins had the type of talk with him, we should have had.  He's going to struggle with switching assignments at first especially at Guard. But he' going to be able to contain Suh when he's blocking him one on one. And he will clear road.

The tackle results may come in more slowly for Tunsil and that may be the delay in reaching the final conclusion. But they'll come in quickly for Stanley with the current plan.

I was planning to stay out of this, but I just have to ask...

How is a video that clearly shows his face at the end not credible?  I'm really looking forward to this answer.

[trevorsteadman]

2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I was planning to stay out of this, but I just have to ask...

How is a video that clearly shows his face at the end not credible?  I'm really looking forward to this answer.

Many say that was when he was in high school and he has not done it since. There is no way to know without a drug test.. I think both have about the same success in the NFL. But as of now it looks like Stanley was the choice for us because he played in a more NFL ready offense and he is ready to go. Tunsil on the other hand came from a spread offense and will likely have growing pains especially when he has leaned on his athletic ability all through college. 

[rmw10]

3 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

Many say that was when he was in high school and he has not done it since. There is no way to know without a drug test.. I think both have about the same success in the NFL. But as of now it looks like Stanley was the choice for us because he played in a more NFL ready offense and he is ready to go. Tunsil on the other hand came from a spread offense and will likely have growing pains especially when he has leaned on his athletic ability all through college. 

Tunsil himself said it was 2 years ago, not high school.  Still a long time of course, but not so long that it wasn't considered a problem.  Nevermind the fact that no team really had much time to do the research on anything with that happening 10 minutes before the draft.  It's not like teams could just assume it was several years ago at the time.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article74623587.html

[BmoreBird22]

29 minutes ago, Danny D said:

He's going to do well because the video that scared us away is not credible.  He's going to do well because the Dolphins had the type of talk with him, we should have had.  He's going to struggle with switching assignments at first especially at Guard. But he' going to be able to contain Suh when he's blocking him one on one. And he will clear road.

The tackle results may come in more slowly for Tunsil and that may be the delay in reaching the final conclusion. But they'll come in quickly for Stanley with the current plan.

Doesn't tell me what makes a good prospect on the field

[trevorsteadman]

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

Tunsil himself said it was 2 years ago, not high school.  Still a long time of course, but not so long that it wasn't considered a problem.  Nevermind the fact that no team really had much time to do the research on anything with that happening 10 minutes before the draft.  It's not like teams could just assume it was several years ago at the time.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article74623587.html

That was just what was initially reported when the video first came out but I have not followed it since. And that is why when it was initially leaked it was a huge thing and he dropped to 15. I still wonder if it didn't come out if we would have selected him or not. We will never know.

[BmoreBird22]

37 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

That was just what was initially reported when the video first came out but I have not followed it since. And that is why when it was initially leaked it was a huge thing and he dropped to 15. I still wonder if it didn't come out if we would have selected him or not. We will never know.

I'm going to personally guess no. The Ravens needed a sure thing and Stanley is more sure thing than Tunsil, in my eyes.

[Tiznut]

5 hours ago, rmw10 said:

I was planning to stay out of this, but I just have to ask...

How is a video that clearly shows his face at the end not credible?  I'm really looking forward to this answer.

That said. How is that video proof that he'll do good.   To say he will play well because that video is fake is just a bad comment 

[Guest]

23 hours ago, rmw10 said:

Tunsil himself said it was 2 years ago, not high school.  Still a long time of course, but not so long that it wasn't considered a problem.  Nevermind the fact that no team really had much time to do the research on anything with that happening 10 minutes before the draft.  It's not like teams could just assume it was several years ago at the time.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article74623587.html

They panicked .

The panic was the result of an aggregation of circumstances.  Significant among them has been the horrific recent First Round draft record. They felt they could not bust with their number 1 again, especially picking @ slot 6. 

The Baltimore Ravens use to have an edge. We were a tough physical team with some characters. They don't want characters any longer either.

Lastly, you gotta look real close at Newsome.  Definitely aging going on real fast now. Listen to him speak and compare his communication abilities to other GM's around the league.  But he can still pick a talented player right?

Now they say Stanley was always their guy. Ok....then they didn't settle at the last minute. Stanley was a deliberate, reflective decision, with plenty of research. This guy has to be the Naz.  If he's not the Naz something is rotten in Denmark. 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ozzie+newsome+youtube&qpvt=ozzie+newsome+youtube&view=detail&mid=BCC819638E1DDE61DA10BCC819638E1DDE61DA10&FORM=VRDGAR

Notice how labored Newsome's breathing is before he even speaks.....he's charging himself up. 

Edited July 8, 2016 by Danny D

[BmoreBird22]

14 minutes ago, Danny D said:

Now they say Stanley was always their guy. Ok....then they didn't settle at the last minute. Stanley was a deliberate, reflective decision, with plenty of research. This guy has to be the Naz.  If he's not the Naz something is rotten in Denmark. 

Still waiting to here how he's the better prospect

[rmw10]

30 minutes ago, Danny D said:

They panicked .

The panic was the result of an aggregation of circumstances.  Significant among them has been the horrific recent First Round draft record. They felt they could not bust with their number 1 again, especially picking @ slot 6. 

The Baltimore Ravens use to have an edge. We were a tough physical team with some characters. They don't want characters any longer either.

Lastly, you gotta look real close at Newsome.  Definitely aging going on real fast now. Listen to him speak and compare his communication abilities to other GM's around the league.  But he can still pick a talented player right?

Now they say Stanley was always their guy. Ok....then they didn't settle at the last minute. Stanley was a deliberate, reflective decision, with plenty of research. This guy has to be the Naz.  If he's not the Naz something is rotten in Denmark. 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ozzie+newsome+youtube&qpvt=ozzie+newsome+youtube&view=detail&mid=BCC819638E1DDE61DA10BCC819638E1DDE61DA10&FORM=VRDGAR

Notice how labored Newsome's breathing is before he even speaks.....he's charging himself up. 

Instead of answering the questions at hand, we're going to talk about how Ozzie communicates?  Cool, got it.