[News] Late For Work 4/27: Ravens Reportedly Focused On Joey Bosa, Two Other Pass Rushers At No. 6

[BR News]

Is the Laremy Tunsil/Ronnie Stanley debate real? The Raves could be the team to resolve the debate Thursday. Plus, five teams that control 2016 draft ... and perhaps who Baltimore selects.

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[EdTheMythicalOne]

I am surprised that with all the coverage about Bosa that nobody mentions his off the field issues (drugs & propensity to party at raves via a report from Walterfootball) and his short comings. There are a lot of holes in his game if people actually look at his tape and not just his highlights. He's very blockable and when game planned against he disappears. He's not as strong against the run as people think and he will struggle in coverage from a combination of his slower processing and lack of agility. There is a hitch in his get along when he tries to change direction.

He's a gamble for a couple of reasons and I would be worried if the Ravens take him at #6.

Edited April 27, 2016 by EdTheMythicalOne
typo

[fusuymada]

No way I believe this and no offense Sara, as team writers are kept in the dark like the rest of us but I don't believe the Ravens will pigeon hole themselves into a defensive end, need or not. I can think of at least 4 players, one of which will be on the board when the Ravens pick and they are all better players than Bosa. If Ramsey, Tunsil, Buckner or Jack is there and they take Bosa, there are problem in the FO, because they are not picking the best player on the board. I can see Tunsil going to the Chargers, Elliott to the Cowboys and Jack to the Jaguars and if we pick Bosa at that pick, we are nuts. I have watched every piece of video available publicly with Bosa in it and first thing that stands out is when you look Suggs and Dumervil, is the quickness off the line, how quick they get into the tackle and then how quickly they can either speed past them or use their hands to get inside. When I look at Bosa I don't see a defensive end who is quick enough to get into the tackle before the tackle locks him up, he doesn't have the speed to get outside or around a pro tackle and his quickness and speed wont get him inside the tackle to get to the qb. Against the best tackles in the draft, he was a non-factor. I would prefer we get Ramsey and if he is not there, I would trade back and grab Hargreaves. Then I would move back up in the draft and get Spence or Nkemdiche. Plenty of defensive linemen in the draft but only two really elite corners, Ramsey and Hargreaves. The others are good but they are not start day 1 corners where Ramsey and Hargreaves are.

[TheConquerorWorm]

I am surprised that with all the coverage about Bosa that nobody mentions his off the field issues (drugs & propensity to part at raves) and his short comings. There are a lot of holes in his game if people actually look at his tape and not just his highlights. He's very blockable and when game planned against he disappears. He's not as strong against the run as people think and he will struggle in coverage from a combination of his slower processing and lack of agility. There is a hitch in his get along when he tries to change direction.

He's a gamble for a couple of reasons and I would be worried if the Ravens take him at #6.

There's ???? on every player at the top. Ramsey may have all the athletic ability and off the chart measurables but why didn't he produce in college? Also, there's the big question, can he even play CB in the NFL? Using a Top 5 pick on a Safety is almost unheard of. Buckner's production wasn't really there either - half of those sacks wouldn't happen in the NFL and came against really weak teams. Tunsil hasn't played in an NFL offense - his offense had no protection schemes or calls - just a spread option. Jack's knee issue? Hargreaves is undersized and may be just a slot corner, etc, etc, etc.

[steelcityraven]

  18 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

I am surprised that with all the coverage about Bosa that nobody mentions his off the field issues (drugs & propensity to part at raves) and his short comings. There are a lot of holes in his game if people actually look at his tape and not just his highlights. He's very blockable and when game planned against he disappears. He's not as strong against the run as people think and he will struggle in coverage from a combination of his slower processing and lack of agility. There is a hitch in his get along when he tries to change direction.

He's a gamble for a couple of reasons and I would be worried if the Ravens take him at #6.

There's ???? on every player at the top. Ramsey may have all the athletic ability and off the chart measurables but why didn't he produce in college? Also, there's the big question, can he even play CB in the NFL? Using a Top 5 pick on a Safety is almost unheard of. Buckner's production wasn't really there either - half of those sacks wouldn't happen in the NFL and came against really weak teams. Tunsil hasn't played in an NFL offense - his offense had no protection schemes or calls - just a spread option. Jack's knee issue? Hargreaves is undersized and may be just a slot corner, etc, etc, etc.

Agreed... there is no such thing as a sure thing but you look for the uncoachables. Size, speed, athleticism, intelligence (football), play making ability, etc. The player with the best combination of those attributes gets closer to being a sure thing. (that's why we have an NFL combine and colleges have pro days, etc.) To show who has there attributes and how much. Is that fool proof- clearly not but the players at the top possess enough of the attributes to be successful that these companies (teams) feel better about making multi-million dollar investments in. When certain players possess many of these attributes- that means that they have all of the tools to be successful - if they do not allow (off the field distraction, head issues, drugs, women, conditioning, etc.) to detract then they can expect success! Bosa has the size, speed, football intelligence and play making ability to allow him to be a low risk gamble. Are there other issues to take into the equation ... yes but are the big enough to detract from the above mentioned attributes (what about Ramsey, Tunsil, Jack, Buckner, Zeke, etc.) that's what the Ravens need to do their homework on. You can bet that they already have!

[Black&purple#55]

No way I believe this and no offense Sara, as team writers are kept in the dark like the rest of us but I don't believe the Ravens will pigeon hole themselves into a defensive end, need or not. I can think of at least 4 players, one of which will be on the board when the Ravens pick and they are all better players than Bosa. If Ramsey, Tunsil, Buckner or Jack is there and they take Bosa, there are problem in the FO, because they are not picking the best player on the board. I can see Tunsil going to the Chargers, Elliott to the Cowboys and Jack to the Jaguars and if we pick Bosa at that pick, we are nuts. I have watched every piece of video available publicly with Bosa in it and first thing that stands out is when you look Suggs and Dumervil, is the quickness off the line, how quick they get into the tackle and then how quickly they can either speed past them or use their hands to get inside. When I look at Bosa I don't see a defensive end who is quick enough to get into the tackle before the tackle locks him up, he doesn't have the speed to get outside or around a pro tackle and his quickness and speed wont get him inside the tackle to get to the qb. Against the best tackles in the draft, he was a non-factor. I would prefer we get Ramsey and if he is not there, I would trade back and grab Hargreaves. Then I would move back up in the draft and get Spence or Nkemdiche. Plenty of defensive linemen in the draft but only two really elite corners, Ramsey and Hargreaves. The others are good but they are not start day 1 corners where Ramsey and Hargreaves are.

i agree

[steelcityraven]

  39 minutes ago, fusuymada said:

No way I believe this and no offense Sara, as team writers are kept in the dark like the rest of us but I don't believe the Ravens will pigeon hole themselves into a defensive end, need or not. I can think of at least 4 players, one of which will be on the board when the Ravens pick and they are all better players than Bosa. If Ramsey, Tunsil, Buckner or Jack is there and they take Bosa, there are problem in the FO, because they are not picking the best player on the board. I can see Tunsil going to the Chargers, Elliott to the Cowboys and Jack to the Jaguars and if we pick Bosa at that pick, we are nuts. I have watched every piece of video available publicly with Bosa in it and first thing that stands out is when you look Suggs and Dumervil, is the quickness off the line, how quick they get into the tackle and then how quickly they can either speed past them or use their hands to get inside. When I look at Bosa I don't see a defensive end who is quick enough to get into the tackle before the tackle locks him up, he doesn't have the speed to get outside or around a pro tackle and his quickness and speed wont get him inside the tackle to get to the qb. Against the best tackles in the draft, he was a non-factor. I would prefer we get Ramsey and if he is not there, I would trade back and grab Hargreaves. Then I would move back up in the draft and get Spence or Nkemdiche. Plenty of defensive linemen in the draft but only two really elite corners, Ramsey and Hargreaves. The others are good but they are not start day 1 corners where Ramsey and Hargreaves are.

i agree

Eli Apple can start day 1 for us!

[rmcjacket23]

54 minutes ago, fusuymada said:

No way I believe this and no offense Sara, as team writers are kept in the dark like the rest of us but I don't believe the Ravens will pigeon hole themselves into a defensive end, need or not. I can think of at least 4 players, one of which will be on the board when the Ravens pick and they are all better players than Bosa. If Ramsey, Tunsil, Buckner or Jack is there and they take Bosa, there are problem in the FO, because they are not picking the best player on the board. I can see Tunsil going to the Chargers, Elliott to the Cowboys and Jack to the Jaguars and if we pick Bosa at that pick, we are nuts. I have watched every piece of video available publicly with Bosa in it and first thing that stands out is when you look Suggs and Dumervil, is the quickness off the line, how quick they get into the tackle and then how quickly they can either speed past them or use their hands to get inside. When I look at Bosa I don't see a defensive end who is quick enough to get into the tackle before the tackle locks him up, he doesn't have the speed to get outside or around a pro tackle and his quickness and speed wont get him inside the tackle to get to the qb. Against the best tackles in the draft, he was a non-factor. I would prefer we get Ramsey and if he is not there, I would trade back and grab Hargreaves. Then I would move back up in the draft and get Spence or Nkemdiche. Plenty of defensive linemen in the draft but only two really elite corners, Ramsey and Hargreaves. The others are good but they are not start day 1 corners where Ramsey and Hargreaves are.

So, just so I'm clear... you have multiple times made statements questioning the "off field concerns" of Laremy Tunsil and suggested that they are sufficient to not draft him at #6, yet, now, you are possibly advocating trading back up into the first round to grab Nkemdiche, who is arguably one of the biggest "red flag" players in the entire draft in terms of off-field concerns? And that same guy also seems to frequently get lost on film and there are major questions about him taking plays off and simply not playing as hard as he can?

Just trying to understand the logic behind that?

I mean this sounds a lot like some of the guys on here who bashed the Ravens for drafting Perriman due to his past injury concerns and are now simultaneously advocating for Myles Jack to be a top 10 pick for us. 

Kind of a head scratcher don't ya think?

Edited April 27, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[steelcityraven]

Shaq Lawson , Kevin Dodd, Noah Spence, Leonard Floydd, Kyler Fackrell, Jordan Jenkins, Sau Cravens, Darron Lee, Aaron Wallace, Emmauel Ogbah, Shiro Davis, Carl Nassib, Anthony Zettel, Drew Iddings, Deforest Buckner, Bronson Kafusi, Deon Lowry, DJ Pettaway, Travis Feeney, Devondre Campbell, Brandon WIlliams, and more are all pass rushers (DEs or OLBs) in this years draft who we can land after BOSA.
Many of them in the 3rd and 4th rounds (where we have a bevy of picks) and many of the quality players who can contribute now! This years draft is deep in on of the positions that we have need! (PASS RUSHER). No need to jump to quickly. If Tunsil or Ramsey are there... I say we take them first. We can surely add help in the pass rushing dept. a little later. If those two and Jack are gone... then sure go ahead and grab Bosa... and lets add William Jackson CB in round 2.

[eze17]

My worry: SD-Tunsil, DAL-Bosa, JAX-Ramsey....Which leaves us with Jack as best player available. Gotta admit his injuries scare me. That would leave Buckner, Stanley and Hargreaves as good, but I don't think exceptional, consolation picks.

[eze17]

OH, and you could throw Zeke Eliot in there with best player available, but I don't know if the Ravens would seriously take him...

[Fastynart]

My worry: SD-Tunsil, DAL-Bosa, JAX-Ramsey....Which leaves us with Jack as best player available. Gotta admit his injuries scare me. That would leave Buckner, Stanley and Hargreaves as good, but I don't think exceptional, consolation picks.

If the picks go as you say, the Ravens would be smart to trade down, IF a team offers a great deal. Jack is not the guy to take at #6. Knee is really questionable. Could be one and done.

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, Fastynart said:

If the picks go as you say, the Ravens would be smart to trade down, IF a team offers a great deal. Jack is not the guy to take at #6. Knee is really questionable. Could be one and done.

I think the only other option there is to find out just what difference in ratings we have between Tunsil and Stanley.

We really don't know how highly we have either player rated, but I don't think we should dismiss Stanley as an option at #6 if our "top three" perceived guys are off the board.

Jack is a bit too risky for my liking, and he plays a position that I don't find nearly as important as some of the others we are discussing.

Edited April 27, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[cec327]

I do not believe that any of the draft prognosticators have looked at the possible draftees as much as the Raven. Everyone has an opinion but few have the facts about these players. Smoke screens always seem to appear about character issues, desire to play, toughness, and whatever else commentators conjure up or simply repeat what others have said. I am sure that the Ravens have done their homework for this draft.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

1 hour ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

There's ???? on every player at the top. Ramsey may have all the athletic ability and off the chart measurables but why didn't he produce in college? Also, there's the big question, can he even play CB in the NFL? Using a Top 5 pick on a Safety is almost unheard of. Buckner's production wasn't really there either - half of those sacks wouldn't happen in the NFL and came against really weak teams. Tunsil hasn't played in an NFL offense - his offense had no protection schemes or calls - just a spread option. Jack's knee issue? Hargreaves is undersized and may be just a slot corner, etc, etc, etc.

1) I am not advocating for Ramsey specifically because I don't see all this supposed "playmaker" ability he's supposed to have. He's a jack of all trades but master of none. I don't think he's the best corner in the draft.

2) Buckner won't wow you, but he fits our system and would be the safe pick. You could find a rotational 3-4 DE/DT later in the draft though.

3) Tunsil is supposedly the best/highest ceiling LT in the draft. He's got some durability concerns, and he accepted funds in college that was against the rules.

4) Jack's knee is the only question I hear about him. No off field stuff. If the Ravens doctors think his knee is not an issue he's a great pick.

5) Don't think Hargreaves is a top 10 pick.

So yeah, there are questions about players. Bosa has questions about his actual ability AND off the field drug related issues. It'd be one thing if he was a sure-fire freak of nature athlete with crazy measurables and tape that is a nonstop highlight reel, but this isn't the case with him. So the deal is what questions/issues are you willing to put up with in return for the talent on the field?

[EdTheMythicalOne]

8 minutes ago, cec327 said:

I do not believe that any of the draft prognosticators have looked at the possible draftees as much as the Raven. Everyone has an opinion but few have the facts about these players. Smoke screens always seem to appear about character issues, desire to play, toughness, and whatever else commentators conjure up or simply repeat what others have said. I am sure that the Ravens have done their homework for this draft.

This drug thing is not a smoke screen as it pertains to Bosa and his fellow teammates Ezekiel Elliott and Noah Spence. Bosa got suspended because he would not submit to a drug test. That happened.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

So, just so I'm clear... you have multiple times made statements questioning the "off field concerns" of Laremy Tunsil and suggested that they are sufficient to not draft him at #6, yet, now, you are possibly advocating trading back up into the first round to grab Nkemdiche, who is arguably one of the biggest "red flag" players in the entire draft in terms of off-field concerns? And that same guy also seems to frequently get lost on film and there are major questions about him taking plays off and simply not playing as hard as he can?

Just trying to understand the logic behind that?

I mean this sounds a lot like some of the guys on here who bashed the Ravens for drafting Perriman due to his past injury concerns and are now simultaneously advocating for Myles Jack to be a top 10 pick for us. 

Kind of a head scratcher don't ya think?

Spence is also in that circle of "party drug" users with Bosa and Elliott.

Nkemdiche is just a train wreck. He wants a panther because they are just like cats. Um, no they aren't. Domesticated cats don't have the ability to maul and kill humans. Remember the tiger trainers that had a long time performance tiger that they trusted turn on and maul Roy? These guys are professionals and that happened to them.  His family includes a "large number of people who aren't related to me, but are similar in blood to me." To me that is code for a gang. He fell out of a window at a party.

[FloridalovesRavens]

Somehow I think Torrey might be sorry he left but who knows. Seems he posts a lot about Ravens??

Hopefully we will get the player we covet most. One thing for sure the Oz will do what he thinks is best. I just hope they don't trade back. This is a chance we haven't had in a long time and hopefully will not see again for a long while lol.

[eze17]

Haven't there been some issues with Shaq Lawson getting in trouble also? I seem to remember hearing something about him, but I am not sure...

[hen826957]

Ramsey please slide to us man. You best fit on our team not the Cowboys or Jags. He needs to be a Raven. Please! Let him slide to us. ?

[steelcityraven]

Somehow I think Torrey might be sorry he left but who knows. Seems he posts a lot about Ravens??

Hopefully we will get the player we covet most. One thing for sure the Oz will do what he thinks is best. I just hope they don't trade back. This is a chance we haven't had in a long time and hopefully will not see again for a long while lol.

I dont have a problem with a trade back on two conditions:

1. Our guy is off of the board (Tunsil, Ramsey, or Bosa)
2. Somebody throws the house at us. If someone wants to give us what Cleveland got... this draft is deep enough (and future picks) id be okay with trading back.

I don't think either scenario is likely but strange things happen on draft day!

[steelcityraven]

  2 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

There's ???? on every player at the top. Ramsey may have all the athletic ability and off the chart measurables but why didn't he produce in college? Also, there's the big question, can he even play CB in the NFL? Using a Top 5 pick on a Safety is almost unheard of. Buckner's production wasn't really there either - half of those sacks wouldn't happen in the NFL and came against really weak teams. Tunsil hasn't played in an NFL offense - his offense had no protection schemes or calls - just a spread option. Jack's knee issue? Hargreaves is undersized and may be just a slot corner, etc, etc, etc.

1) I am not advocating for Ramsey specifically because I don't see all this supposed "playmaker" ability he's supposed to have. He's a jack of all trades but master of none. I don't think he's the best corner in the draft.

2) Buckner won't wow you, but he fits our system and would be the safe pick. You could find a rotational 3-4 DE/DT later in the draft though.

3) Tunsil is supposedly the best/highest ceiling LT in the draft. He's got some durability concerns, and he accepted funds in college that was against the rules.

4) Jack's knee is the only question I hear about him. No off field stuff. If the Ravens doctors think his knee is not an issue he's a great pick.

5) Don't think Hargreaves is a top 10 pick.

So yeah, there are questions about players. Bosa has questions about his actual ability AND off the field drug related issues. It'd be one thing if he was a sure-fire freak of nature athlete with crazy measurables and tape that is a nonstop highlight reel, but this isn't the case with him. So the deal is what questions/issues are you willing to put up with in return for the talent on the field?

Your sentiments on buckner remind me of the same things being said about Elam when he was at Fla... not a flashy player... but a safe pick and fits our system. IDK at # 6 I think they need to make a splash! At # 6 they are expected to come in and play now. Which is why I don't think we are really after Bosa. Jacks knee is fine... he had a meniscus mend which was more then scoped... and he was down longer as a result of trying to make sure it was done right not just scoping it. Jack would come in and make an impact now. Ramsey is a jack of all trades and the only reason he has not mastered any is because he is such a superior athlete that FSU used him everywhere. That says a lot when your that much better of an athlete then everyone at FSU and that you can show that type of transition with fluidity and that versatility can be highly sought after a this level. Tunsil did accept some funds in college - that means he did what EVERY college player has done... but tonsil happened to get caught. Out of 354 offensive plays last year... Tunsil allowed zero sacks and only 5 QB hurries. I wish Monroe had those type of durability issues. I agree that Hargraves is probably outside of the top 10 and if we were targeting him... we should trade back. Finally, BOSA, JACK , TUNSIL, RAMSEY or even BUCKNER... we are sure to land a stud -who can help us now and in the future. They all have questions and that makes them human but they al have an athletic / physical upside that greatly outweighs most of the questions surrounding these 5 guys... and that makes them very good draft picks. All 5 are elite and will change the face of our team for the next several years!

[steelcityraven]

  1 hour ago, eze17 said:

My worry: SD-Tunsil, DAL-Bosa, JAX-Ramsey....Which leaves us with Jack as best player available. Gotta admit his injuries scare me. That would leave Buckner, Stanley and Hargreaves as good, but I don't think exceptional, consolation picks.

If the picks go as you say, the Ravens would be smart to trade down, IF a team offers a great deal. Jack is not the guy to take at #6. Knee is really questionable. Could be one and done.

I really don't believe that Jacks knee is all that questionable. He had a meniscus repair instead of a scope. (if there was more damage then that... they would have fixed it when they did the repair as the exploratory surgery would have revealed more). They were inside his knee and knew exactly what was intact and if structural damage existed... they reported none. They knew when they did the repair, that it wasn't worse then that but that a meniscus repair would be a longer healing process (six -eight weeks)... instead the few days it would have been - if he would have simply got it cleaned up with a scope. He is not in great shape bc he has been off of the knee (per doctors orders) so that it heals correctly. But Conditioning has never been an issue for Jack and I believe that the health of his knee has more to do with certain team doctors spreading those rumors in an attempt to get his draft stock to drop. Most team doctors that checked this guy out gave him a clean bill of health (including Dr. Leigh Ann Curl our team orthopedic doctor). If Jack falls to us... he is not a consolation prize. I personally do not think he will get past JAX... where Dr. Kaplan and his team down there also gave Jack a clean bill of health. But if he falls to us bc of someone else's rumors ... I would have to admit that I would be pretty happy to land this guy! Gotta be careful this time of year. It is kinda like politics, where there is a degree of truth in the stuff being said but nobody is ever sure how much however!

[Maryland]

Not sure why they would draft Lawson or Floyd at #6 when they could trade-down with someone and still get one of the two most likely. The Titans were reported to be interested in trading up, and you could possibly get either one at #15.

It will be painful for me to watch if we pass on Tunsil, considering he is the #1 prospect in this draft at a position of great need. I would rather see him gone before our pick if that's the case lol.

[steelcityraven]

Not sure why they would draft Lawson or Floyd at #6 when they could trade-down with someone and still get one of the two most likely. The Titans were reported to be interested in trading up, and you could possibly get either one at #15.

It will be painful for me to watch if we pass on Tunsil, considering he is the #1 prospect in this draft at a position of great need. I would rather see him gone before our pick if that's the case lol.

I am with you. IF Tunsil is there and we don't take him. I would be upset! The only way that I would feel good about this is if we took Ramsey.... or we got a boat load of picks from someone else to trade back! If someone through the house at us and we took Stanley instead of Tunsil a little later... I could be very okay with a scenario like that.

[steelcityraven]

Ramsey please slide to us man. You best fit on our team not the Cowboys or Jags. He needs to be a Raven. Please! Let him slide to us. ?

Boy do I hope he does slide to us... and I guess that could happen... (Chargers taking Tunsil, Cowboys taking Zeke and Jags taking Jack) that is possible but I really don't like our chances. I really do think that If it did... you and I would be doing some backflips! Lets hope... (another scenario that could cause Ramsey to fall to us is another trade- which is possible)~!

[designermaryland]

Please let the Bosa hype be a smoke screen. Dude has Courtney Upshaw written all over him. Unproductive at best against any formidable competition. Hoping we trade back a few positions and pick a solid CB.

[eze17]

  58 minutes ago, hen826957 said:

Ramsey please slide to us man. You best fit on our team not the Cowboys or Jags. He needs to be a Raven. Please! Let him slide to us. ?

Boy do I hope he does slide to us... and I guess that could happen... (Chargers taking Tunsil, Cowboys taking Zeke and Jags taking Jack) that is possible but I really don't like our chances. I really do think that If it did... you and I would be doing some backflips! Lets hope... (another scenario that could cause Ramsey to fall to us is another trade- which is possible)~!

I don't think he will be at #6 either...but if he is, I think it would be hard for the Ravens brass not to rush the stage and snag him!

[ravens4life86]

STEVE B said from Day 1, We are getting Pass Rush!!
So Ill be doing backflips if we get a franchise changing Pass Rusher.. in Bosa,Lawson,Floyd.

[Kinda_Dante]

34 minutes ago, designermaryland said:

Please let the Bosa hype be a smoke screen. Dude has Courtney Upshaw written all over him. Unproductive at best against any formidable competition. Hoping we trade back a few positions and pick a solid CB.

I really don't get why anyone dislikes Bosa. People look at his numbers and say he struggled but he was consistently dominant, but its hard to get sacks when you have to fight through double or triple teams to get to the QB. If you actually watch him play he always dominates the guy in front of him with his strength and superior hand fighting.