[News] Eisenberg: Only Certainty Is Uncertainly In Ravens Draft

[EdTheMythicalOne]

  2 hours ago, The Greek said:

aj hawk could be an option for us for 1 season while we develop another mlb already in house or through the draft or ufa. not sure what his asking price would be

hes on Cincis roster

They recently released him and I don't think he's a good fit for us. He's not an edge rusher.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

  2 hours ago, ravens4life86 said:

48 hours..tick tock..
By now Im sure Ozzie and co. I have most logical scenarios ran through and who they would take.

Secondly People need to Get off this JACK Injury Concern..bridge jumping train.
For one.. several reports have contradicted themselves, second rumors(99%) Truth) is that Teams are exploiting his injury hoping he drops by flooding market with injury concerns. I know he wouldnt drop past the Giants at 10.. so his injuries are no more then teams trying to scare people..

If Jack is at 6, Ravens take him..

I think people like to forget Tunsil beat woman,jumped out of a Building and often injured himself..Too much Baggage Hello!!!
Its either..Ramsey,Bosa,Jack,...maybe Buckner..or Zeke Elliott

Ummm get the facts.... he got in a domestic dispute with his step father because he pushed his mom. It has never been reported that he had beat a woman. He didn't jump out a window his teammate Nkimdiche did.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a great story! :)

[ellicottraven]

At this point, I am just waiting with baited breath as to how the draft unfolds and who we take. I can only hope the Niners and the Browns who pick after us don't end up with better prospects down the road. That is what makes me nervous about picking this high. There is no room for error period. Therefore, I'm not ruling out Elliott, Stanley, VH3 or Buckner for that matter. We just need to get this pick right!!!

[ellicottraven]

Seems NFL.com is reporting the Saints are trying to get ahead of SF and Cleveland to land Paxton Lynch. (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000656075/article/new-orleans-saints-in-play-for-paxton-lynch) They are presently at #12. The spot before SF and Cleveland is.... The Ravens. To move from #12 to #6 is going to take a couple more picks than moving just one or two spots, but, in my opinion, a best case scenario would be to move back, grab Hargreaves, take the extra picks and move back into the first and grab Spence or Nkemdiche. Both are character concerns but if you hit on Hargreaves, who is squeaky clean, then there will be a little fan leeway if they miss on Spence or Nkemdiche.

I don't entirely disagree with your strategy. But, the only issue I have is we may very well still get Nkemdiche or Spence at 36.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

  2 hours ago, WNC-Raven said:

You're always very level headed so I would like to know why you think Jack's knee is a gigantic concern? It seems like all of the concern really ramped up last week when am "anonymous" GM said it was a time bomb. Before that he was being held up as a top 4 pick. Feels to me like whoever released that statement is getting exactly what they intended if having him fall was in fact their intention. Heck maybe the Ravens said it? Also I read that Tunsil was injured every single season he played in college. How would you rate the concern level between Tunsil and Jack's injury history moving forward? Both appear to have enormous upside if healthy.

1. His medical re-check only occurred within the last few weeks I believe, and that's when discussions about his draft stock changed. 

2. Obviously there are varying opinions, and its up to each individual team to determine the concerns. There's already been a few teams that have indicated he's been moved to the "risk" category of their draft boards, and there are multiple teams that think he will long term need micro-fracture surgery, which historically is among the toughest surgeries to recover from. 

For me, the risk doesn't necessarily match up with the reward. Good player, explosive, but doesn't do anything specifically well. He's not a pure pass rusher, and my guess is the defensive player we will target we either want to be a pass rusher or a secondary playmaker. 

I don't see the desire for us to spend two first round picks in three years on MLB, a position where we are shifting towards playing only one at a time. I believe last season we are in nickel or dime packages about 60% of the time, which can easily eliminate the need for two MLBs on the field at the same time.

Mostly just a guess on my part. Tunsil's injury history is a bit different because its sort of multiple, small injuries, as opposed to one major one with long term possibly complications. 

Jack as a potential trade-back target, possibly in the 10-12 range, makes sense. Just don't see at #6. 

Micro fracture surgery is no joke and it is not a guarantee that you will come back from it.

Basically his condition is deteriorating cartilage in his knee. When that cartilage is almost completely gone you get some lovely bone on bone rubbing action which hurts to Hell and back. The surgery is taking a drill to drill holes into whatever existing cartilage you have left, let the thing bleed out and form lots of scar tissue that hardens over time to artificially replace the cartilage in your knee. There are several basketball players that have had this done to varying degrees of success.

His knee is a ticking time bomb. The condition doesn't magically get better over time. It will continue to wear down and eventually wear out. The question is how fast is it going to happen? Are you gonna get 10 years out of him, or will be be done in 3? That's your risk/reward issue right there. Because like I said, he gets that surgery done and he will be out for at least one full year and there is no guarantee he will be able to come back and play football.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

  4 hours ago, Raven_Don said:

We didn't go 5-11 because of the offense... the defense let us down the first half of the year... I honestly don't care who we select... I am more concerned with the player selected to be a difference maker... i.e. C.J Mosley... that's all I care about... Go Ravens!!!

Our inability to Run the ball (Control the Clock), Rush the passer, and Cover in the secondary were the reasons why we were 5-11.

And why weren't we able to run the ball and rush the passer or cover anyone? Injuries.

We lost our starting Center, Left Tackle, and our Right Tackle was coming back from a lisfranc injury. We lost our starting and back up running backs. We lost our starting left side edge rusher which negated our right side edge rusher. Both Jimmy Smith and L. Webb were dealing with injury issues all season long.

I think a healthy Ravens team last year would have been at least .500. We were on our 4th starting QB, our 3rd and 4th string RB, our 3rd and 4th string WR, and it was simply a mess.

[JimmyBlack]

I would take Tunsil over Ramsey but there is a chance that neither are available at number 6.

[Grapple Raven]

Jack's stock is dropping like a rock, because at his medical recheck it was discovered that besides the known knee injury with the torn meniscus that hasn't healed as quickly as they thought he was diagnosed with " chondral defect", see link below:

http://sportsnaut.com/2016/04/report-myles-jack-chondral-defect-right-knee/

This is separate from the original injury of the torn meniscus, and the chondral defect is seen by some to be a deal breaker because it will cause constant pain and swelling and will mean that it would have to be managed constantly.  It would mean less practice time and could reduce the amount of time he has for his career, and possibly could require more extensive surgery with no guarantee of a complete repair.

Personally, I don't see the Ravens taking on the risk using their 6th rounder on another player with possible major knee issues, imho.  Some teams might be willing to take the risk, but I don't think the Ravens can afford it.

 

Tunsil on the other hand has had several injuries that went viewed collectively do raise some concern as to his overall durability...a sprained knee, partially torn bicep, a broken leg and a disclocated ankle that required surgery in 2015, all of these occurring within a three yr. span that caused him to never complete a full season of college football.

 

 

[harfordravenfan]

3 minutes ago, Grapple Raven said:

Jack's stock is dropping like a rock, because at his medical recheck it was discovered that besides the known knee injury with the torn meniscus that hasn't healed as quickly as they thought he was diagnosed with " chondral defect", see link below:

http://sportsnaut.com/2016/04/report-myles-jack-chondral-defect-right-knee/

This is separate from the original injury of the torn meniscus, and the chondral defect is seen by some to be a deal breaker because it will cause constant pain and swelling and will mean that it would have to be managed constantly.  It would mean less practice time and could reduce the amount of time he has for his career, and possibly could require more extensive surgery with no guarantee of a complete repair.

Personally, I don't see the Ravens taking on the risk using their 6th rounder on another player with possible major knee issues, imho.  Some teams might be willing to take the risk, but I don't think the Ravens can afford it.

 

 

I'd use my 6th round pick on him in a heartbeat 

[Drew P]

4 hours ago, CaliRavenFan said:

At first I hated the idea of taking Tunsil at #6 but if Myles Jack is gone he is the next best player to take. I am not sold on Ramsey being the Superstar they are making him out to be but that could be my fear of drafting another FSU Defensive Back.. Bosa in my opinion is identical to Clowney and I just don't see him making the instant impact. I will be Happy with Tunsil, Excited for Elliot and down right screaming for JOY if we end up with Jack.

While Bosa isn't explosive off the edge he's a powerful guy and comes across as someone who loves football and wants to succeed. Clowney on the other hand just wanted to get paid and call it a career.

[Grapple Raven]

1 minute ago, harfordravenfan said:

I'd use my 6th round pick on him in a heartbeat 

Hardfordravenfan, I totally get you...Jack is a great talented prospect.  But I think it is worrisome that if the Ravens were to choose Jack and that knee would become a concern due to what you knew before you drafted him, it would be detrimental for the Ravens.... think about it this way...your first round draft picks for two years in a row can't see the field due to knee injuries???     I just don't see the Ravens being willing to risk that.  Talk about folks storming the Castle with pitchforks in hand...? lol

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

No on Elliott....

[harfordravenfan]

1 hour ago, Grapple Raven said:

Hardfordravenfan, I totally get you...Jack is a great talented prospect.  But I think it is worrisome that if the Ravens were to choose Jack and that knee would become a concern due to what you knew before you drafted him, it would be detrimental for the Ravens.... think about it this way...your first round draft picks for two years in a row can't see the field due to knee injuries???     I just don't see the Ravens being willing to risk that.  Talk about folks storming the Castle with pitchforks in hand...? lol

Knee issue scares me too grapple. Was just messing with ya since ur post said 6th rounder. I'd take jaylon Smith or Jack without thinking twice with my 6th round pick (assume that was a typo?)

[mearzunkies]

  7 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  7 hours ago, CaliRavenFan said:

At first I hated the idea of taking Tunsil at #6 but if Myles Jack is gone he is the next best player to take. I am not sold on Ramsey being the Superstar they are making him out to be but that could be my fear of drafting another FSU Defensive Back.. Bosa in my opinion is identical to Clowney and I just don't see him making the instant impact. I will be Happy with Tunsil, Excited for Elliot and down right screaming for JOY if we end up with Jack.

I don't think Jack's a consideration. His knee is a gigantic concern.

You're always very level headed so I would like to know why you think Jack's knee is a gigantic concern? It seems like all of the concern really ramped up last week when am "anonymous" GM said it was a time bomb. Before that he was being held up as a top 4 pick. Feels to me like whoever released that statement is getting exactly what they intended if having him fall was in fact their intention. Heck maybe the Ravens said it? Also I read that Tunsil was injured every single season he played in college. How would you rate the concern level between Tunsil and Jack's injury history moving forward? Both appear to have enormous upside if healthy.

One is a MAJOR injury that may have cartilage damage.

[hen826957]

I would take Tunsil over Ramsey but there is a chance that neither are available at number 6.

In my scenario, l would take Ramsey over Tunsil in a heartbeat. Ozzie is great finding late round OT gems in the draft during the course of the years like Marshal Yanda, Rick Wagner, KO, etc. We could find one in the later rounds. I want a star potential and a player like Ramsey has it. He could help our secondary tremendously. ?

[jravens1313]

19 minutes ago, hen826957 said:

In my scenario, l would take Ramsey over Tunsil in a heartbeat. Ozzie is great finding late round OT gems in the draft during the course of the years like Marshal Yanda, Rick Wagner, KO, etc. We could find one in the later rounds. I want a star potential and a player like Ramsey has it. He could help our secondary tremendously. ?

What LT has Ozzie found in the late Rounds? The only good LT ever had was JO. 

[hen826957]

9 minutes ago, jravens1313 said:

29 minutes ago, hen826957 said:

In my scenario, l would take Ramsey over Tunsil in a heartbeat. Ozzie is great finding late round OT gems in the draft during the course of the years like Marshal Yanda, Rick Wagner, KO, etc. We could find one in the later rounds. I want a star potential and a player like Ramsey has it. He could help our secondary tremendously. ?

What LT has Ozzie found in the late Rounds? The only good LT ever had was JO. 

Any OL position l mean. Ozzie is good finding OL players in the later rounds. ?

Edited April 27, 2016 by hen826957

[jravens1313]

  1 hour ago, jravens1313 said:

  1 hour ago, hen826957 said:

In my scenario, l would take Ramsey over Tunsil in a heartbeat. Ozzie is great finding late round OT gems in the draft during the course of the years like Marshal Yanda, Rick Wagner, KO, etc. We could find one in the later rounds. I want a star potential and a player like Ramsey has it. He could help our secondary tremendously. ?

What LT has Ozzie found in the late Rounds? The only good LT ever had was JO. 

Any OL position l mean. Ozzie is good finding OL players in the later rounds. ?

But there is a reason why teams draft LT's so high. Because they have rare ability and face the best rushers without help. The majority of the league's good LT's were high first round picks.

[Grapple Raven]

4 hours ago, harfordravenfan said:

Knee issue scares me too grapple. Was just messing with ya since ur post said 6th rounder. I'd take jaylon Smith or Jack without thinking twice with my 6th round pick (assume that was a typo?)

My mistake hardfordravenfan, yes I meant to say with 6th pick. lol Thanks for pointing that out. Sorry for the confusion. 

[hen826957]

  1 hour ago, hen826957 said:

  1 hour ago, jravens1313 said:

  1 hour ago, hen826957 said:

In my scenario, l would take Ramsey over Tunsil in a heartbeat. Ozzie is great finding late round OT gems in the draft during the course of the years like Marshal Yanda, Rick Wagner, KO, etc. We could find one in the later rounds. I want a star potential and a player like Ramsey has it. He could help our secondary tremendously. ?

What LT has Ozzie found in the late Rounds? The only good LT ever had was JO. 

Any OL position l mean. Ozzie is good finding OL players in the later rounds. ?

But there is a reason why teams draft LT's so high. Because they have rare ability and face the best rushers without help. The majority of the league's good LT's were high first round picks.

So l'm guessing is that you rather take Tunsil over Ramsey. Nah l want a playmaker. l would take Ramsey over Tunsil if both were on the board anyday. Tunsil is a great player though, but Ramsey has star potential. ?

[EdTheMythicalOne]

6 hours ago, Drew P said:

While Bosa isn't explosive off the edge he's a powerful guy and comes across as someone who loves football and wants to succeed. Clowney on the other hand just wanted to get paid and call it a career.

A few issues with Bosa:

1) He doesn't fit our current scheme so we'd have to change the defense when he comes into the game which could clue teams in on what we're doing.

2) He's got an off the field issue with ecstasy (also known as molly) and likes to party. Does that remind you of anybody that even when he's not playing football no football related entity can stop themselves from telling stories about him hanging out in bars and such? He refused to take a drug test and stated that it was because he knew he would test positive for Adderal; which wouldn't be a problem if he had a prescription for it. Guess what, taking Adderal without a prescription would be considered a PED since it is a form of amphetamine. To be fair and what I haven't heard a lot being reported about this; is that his fellow teammates Ezekiel Elliott and Noah Spence are also known to party like rock stars with molly too. Just so you don't think I am making this up:

http://m.campussports.net/teams-worry-joey-bosa-ezekiel-elliott-use-hard-party-drugs/

3) He's actually not all that powerful and that is one of the knocks on him. Not as strong as you'd like for an edge guy against the run, not as fast as you'd like for an edge guy for the pass rush, and not as agile as you'd like for him to drop into coverage. He's just kinda all around average with a high motor. I don't know if you can survive in the NFL with "try hard." I certainly wouldn't take a top 10 pick on a guy that doesn't knock anything out of the park. He's supposedly the best edge rush guy in a very weak edge rush class. Doesn't mean he's a top 10 pick in my opinion. Tape on him shows he lacks punch in his tackles, he gets blown off his rushes by blocks at angles, and when teams focus on him they almost eliminate him.

Edited April 27, 2016 by EdTheMythicalOne
typo

[Drew P]

8 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

A few issues with Bosa:

1) He doesn't fit our current scheme so we'd have to change the defense when he comes into the game which could clue teams in on what we're doing.

2) He's got an off the field issue with ecstasy (also known as molly) and likes to party. Does that remind you of anybody that even when he's not playing football no football related entity can stop themselves from telling stories about him hanging out in bars and such? He refused to take a drug test and stated that it was because he knew he would test positive for Adderal; which wouldn't be a problem if he had a prescription for it. Guess what, taking Adderal without a prescription would be considered a PED since it is a form of amphetamine. To be fair and what I haven't heard a lot being reported about this; is that his fellow teammates Ezekiel Elliott and Noah Spence are also known to party like rock stars with molly too. Just so you don't think I am making this up:

http://m.campussports.net/teams-worry-joey-bosa-ezekiel-elliott-use-hard-party-drugs/

3) He's actually not all that powerful and that is one of the knocks on him. Not as strong as you'd like for an edge guy against the run, not as fast as you'd like for an edge guy for the pass rush, and not as agile as you'd like for him to drop into coverage. He's just kinda all around average with a high motor. I don't know if you can survive in the NFL with "try hard." I certainly wouldn't take a top 10 pick on a guy that doesn't knock anything out of the park. He's supposedly the best edge rush guy in a very weak edge rush class. Doesn't mean he's a top 10 pick in my opinion. Tape on him shows he lacks punch in his tackles, he gets blown off his rushes by blocks at angles, and when teams focus on him they almost eliminate him.

I'm not advocating he is the second coming. He's a football player and is a legit every down player at the next level. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if the Ravens selected him at 6 if available. IMO there isn't much separation in the grouping of players linked to the Ravens.

[rmcjacket23]

9 hours ago, hen826957 said:

So l'm guessing is that you rather take Tunsil over Ramsey. Nah l want a playmaker. l would take Ramsey over Tunsil if both were on the board anyday. Tunsil is a great player though, but Ramsey has star potential. ?

I'd take Ramsey over Tunsil, but I can't envision a scenario where both of them are available at #6 and we have a choice, so I'm not sure its worth talking about much.

The ONLY reason I'd make that choice is because Monroe is a respectable LT when he's healthy. 

In regards to just finding another LT late in the draft, that's pretty hard to do. Finding solid Guards or maybe a RT later in the draft is something we are certainly capable of doing, but its not overly common to see high quality LTs emerge out of later round picks. It does happen, but its far less frequent than most positions.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

3 hours ago, Drew P said:

I'm not advocating he is the second coming. He's a football player and is a legit every down player at the next level. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if the Ravens selected him at 6 if available. IMO there isn't much separation in the grouping of players linked to the Ravens.

Even though he's not a sure thing and has this drug issue? Something smells fishy about him and I just rather not go there with that high of a pick. Usually a guy that has questionable talent and some off field issues would drop to a 3rd round pick, but because he's supposedly the best of the crop he's going in the first round? I would like the Ravens to pass just because there are too many questions about him. If he turns out to be a success elsewhere so be it. At the same time I wouldn't be surprised to hear of him failing drug tests in the near future and flaming out of the NFL.

[Drew P]

1 minute ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Even though he's not a sure thing and has this drug issue? Something smells fishy about him and I just rather not go there with that high of a pick. Usually a guy that has questionable talent and some off field issues would drop to a 3rd round pick, but because he's supposedly the best of the crop he's going in the first round? I would like the Ravens to pass just because there are too many questions about him. If he turns out to be a success elsewhere so be it. At the same time I wouldn't be surprised to hear of him failing drug tests in the near future and flaming out of the NFL.

The draft is a crap shoot there is no sure thing.