[News] Late For Work 4/26: One Question For Five Potential Defensive Draft Picks

[BR News]

Why so little contact with DeForest Buckner? What it would take to convince the Ravens to trade back. Quarterback drama makes one appreciate Joe Flacco even more.

View the full article

[757RavensFan]

Quote

@RealMikeRob thanks for the love. But #TonyRomo should never B in front of me in anything Just saying 樂 https://t.co/r3FG8QMo0J

—  Steve Smith Sr.

(@89SteveSmith) April 24, 2016

Gotta love Smitty!!  LOL!

[budman]

I just hope that we decide to sit tight and draft at #6. It's repeatedly said that we are never in this situation so we should take advantage to being here and take the player that we feel will have a high percentage of being a difference maker from day 1. We have constantly been drafting very low, which is a great thing as far as we do not have bad seasons all that often but we ususlly have to make deals to move up to get a player we covet. This year we don't have to do that and we have a good chance to get a Stud (their words). I say stay put.

[salamander]

I guess Tom Brady is having a world class hissy fit right now about his suspension being re-instated. Warms my heart.

[757RavensFan]

So it seems as though there were "limited" talks w/ Buckner. 

[TorryGundy]

I really want Buckner. He can start week one for us over Guy who is not a starter in my opinion. Tunsill is starting to look good as I have no idea what Monroe is going to look like. Ramsey may be a pipe dream, I don't think he will fall to us. Hargraves is not worth the 6th pick. Bosa would be a back up for this year but will never give you what Sizzle or Doom brings , so taking him that soon might not be so good. I don't want to be Ozzie right now.

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, TorryGundy said:

I really want Buckner. He can start week one for us over Guy who is not a starter in my opinion. Tunsill is starting to look good as I have no idea what Monroe is going to look like. Ramsey may be a pipe dream, I don't think he will fall to us. Hargraves is not worth the 6th pick. Bosa would be a back up for this year but will never give you what Sizzle or Doom brings , so taking him that soon might not be so good. I don't want to be Ozzie right now.

My problem is I just don't see how Buckner ends up as a really good pass rusher as a 3-4 Dlineman, and if he's not going to be a pass rusher, I really don't have a ton of interest in him as a top 10 pick at that position.

I asked this question to other people before... if Buckner ended up with a career just like Haloti Ngata's time in Baltimore, would you consider that to be a good pick at #6? I'd say that's sort of his ceiling.

[757RavensFan]

5 minutes ago, TorryGundy said:

I really want Buckner. He can start week one for us over Guy who is not a starter in my opinion. Tunsill is starting to look good as I have no idea what Monroe is going to look like. Ramsey may be a pipe dream, I don't think he will fall to us. Hargraves is not worth the 6th pick. Bosa would be a back up for this year but will never give you what Sizzle or Doom brings , so taking him that soon might not be so good. I don't want to be Ozzie right now.

I see Urban starting over Guy. 

[Moderator 3]

In case you missed it in the article, you can enter the Predict the Pick contest here http://www.baltimoreravens.com/ravenstown/contests/predict-the-picks/index.html

[budman]

Just now, 757RavensFan said:

I see Urban starting over Guy.

Agree. It will be interesting to see how he does at camp.If healthy, he has a big upside.

[surfdude]

With Jack's knee being a great concern I think that screws up the draft a little for the Ravens unless someone trades up again for either a RB or another QB. I could see the Ravens trading now with either the Browns or 49ers. Then taking either Buckner , Hargraves or Stanly. Tusil has some character and injury concerns as well. I would be happy with a trade back pick up an extra 3rd round and get either Buckner or Stanly.

[rmcjacket23]

In all honesty, I think plan A is Ramsey and plan B is Bosa. If both are gone, we may just try desperately to trade back.

I have no issue with taking a Tunsil or Stanley, but I'm getting the feeling that the FO really isn't all that interested in upgrading LT in the first round. Just a gut feeling... not much to support that.

 

[harfordravenfan]

13 minutes ago, surfdude said:

With Jack's knee being a great concern I think that screws up the draft a little for the Ravens unless someone trades up again for either a RB or another QB. I could see the Ravens trading now with either the Browns or 49ers. Then taking either Buckner , Hargraves or Stanly. Tusil has some character and injury concerns as well. I would be happy with a trade back pick up an extra 3rd round and get either Buckner or Stanly.

Call me greedy but I'd want more than an extra third (unless it's the 49ers I guess)

[harfordravenfan]

13 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

In all honesty, I think plan A is Ramsey and plan B is Bosa. If both are gone, we may just try desperately to trade back.

I have no issue with taking a Tunsil or Stanley, but I'm getting the feeling that the FO really isn't all that interested in upgrading LT in the first round. Just a gut feeling... not much to support that.

 

Would've thought picking so high it would've been easier to figure out our pick but still so many ways they could go but do feel tunsil could be picked if there at 6

[steelcityraven]

Tunsil- Ramsey - Jack - Bosa (one of those 4 have to fall to us - and it is likely that two of them will be available when we pick at # 6). The question at this point really is which one do we like the most bc we are going to have to choose between say Ramsey or Tunsil or maybe between Jack and Bosa... or Bosa vs Tunsil???? IDK how the cards will fall but we are going to have to choose between two studs that will help us for years to come. That's a pretty good position to be in. CANT WAIT!

[usmccharles]

52 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

My problem is I just don't see how Buckner ends up as a really good pass rusher as a 3-4 Dlineman, and if he's not going to be a pass rusher, I really don't have a ton of interest in him as a top 10 pick at that position.

I asked this question to other people before... if Buckner ended up with a career just like Haloti Ngata's time in Baltimore, would you consider that to be a good pick at #6? I'd say that's sort of his ceiling.

Man that's tough.  Ngata was huge for us, but I don't see Buckner even being him. 

[budman]

6 minutes ago, harfordravenfan said:

Would've thought picking so high it would've been easier to figure out our pick but still so many ways they could go but do feel tunsil could be picked if there at 6

Agree. IF the Front Office views Tunsil another Ogden or even close, we grab him no doubt. Longevity at a needed position.

[ryananth]

I sure hope either Ramsey, Bosa or Tunsil are available at 6. If not, I hope we are able to trade down. I think after those three you can throw a blanket over the next 10 players. I'm starting to get scared about Jack's knee.

[757RavensFan]

Just now, budman said:

Agree. IF the Front Office views Tunsil another Ogden or even close, we grab him no doubt. Longevity at a needed position.

Why the assumption that he'll be here for a long time?  With the high demand for an elite LT (if he turns out to be one), a team with 

a ton of cap space can get him after his rookie deal.  It's not like it hasn't happened to us before. 

[rmcjacket23]

11 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Man that's tough.  Ngata was huge for us, but I don't see Buckner even being him. 

Well, and in reality... is being Ngata good enough for the #6 pick?

I mean Ngata was a dominant run stopper in his prime, but he was never a great pass rusher. Are we willing to invest a top 10 draft pick on a player like that?

[usmccharles]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well, and in reality... is being Ngata good enough for the #6 pick?

I mean Ngata was a dominant run stopper in his prime, but he was never a great pass rusher. Are we willing to invest a top 10 draft pick on a player like that?

You know what, im going to say yes.  9 years with us, missed a total of 9 games in 4 seasons, he created a lot of pressure on the QB and had decent sack numbers a couple years and like you said, a dominant run stopper.  One thing I see Buckner doing better is batting down some passes with his massive size. 

[budman]

12 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

Why the assumption that he'll be here for a long time?  With the high demand for an elite LT (if he turns out to be one), a team with

a ton of cap space can get him after his rookie deal.  It's not like it hasn't happened to us before.

Long as at least 1 or 2 seasons without missing games which is our problem now. Not years they get too expensive. It was supposed to be a derogatory remark on our current state at LT

Edited April 26, 2016 by budman

[Tobenna_MBA]

If Ramsey is there at 6, I might honestly send thank You cards to the chargers jaguars and cowboys

[usmccharles]

17 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

Why the assumption that he'll be here for a long time?  With the high demand for an elite LT (if he turns out to be one), a team with 

a ton of cap space can get him after his rookie deal.  It's not like it hasn't happened to us before. 

Guys that we view as a franchise player, we will retain.  Unless he refuses to sign prior to FA and tests the market, we will make a competitive offer if he is worth it to us. 

[rmcjacket23]

9 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

Why the assumption that he'll be here for a long time?  With the high demand for an elite LT (if he turns out to be one), a team with 

a ton of cap space can get him after his rookie deal.  It's not like it hasn't happened to us before. 

Historically, its a pretty safe assumption. Not guaranteed, but a safe one.

How many "elite" first round draft picks have we allowed to walk in FA after their rookie contract expired? Frankly, I don't see any in the list I'm looking at.

Ogden, Ray Lewis, Boulware, McAlister, Jamal Lewis, Heap, Ed Reed, Suggs, Ngata, Flacco, and lump in Jimmy (though he's not at the level of those guys).

If we look at the list, 17 first round draft picks from 96-12 drafts. 11 of them signed a second deal with us after their rookie deal, which is about as long term as it gets from NFL standards.

The six that didn't...Duane Starks, Travis Taylor, Kyle Boller, Mark Clayton, Ben Grubbs, and Michael Oher. I think technically Boller was here beyond his rookie deal, but will lump him in the non long-term group for obvious reasons.

Basically, Grubbs was a great player that we allowed to walk, and I suppose you could argue Starks was a pretty good player we allowed to walk, but neither of them belong in the group of great players I listed above. You're basically talking a "who's who" of Ravens all-time in the first group I listed.

Bottom line... if we get a player we think is "great" in the first round, its pretty rare that we allow them to leave. We've never been afraid to spend top dollar on players we think are great.

[RavensDieHard21]

  1 hour ago, TorryGundy said:

I really want Buckner. He can start week one for us over Guy who is not a starter in my opinion. Tunsill is starting to look good as I have no idea what Monroe is going to look like. Ramsey may be a pipe dream, I don't think he will fall to us. Hargraves is not worth the 6th pick. Bosa would be a back up for this year but will never give you what Sizzle or Doom brings , so taking him that soon might not be so good. I don't want to be Ozzie right now.

My problem is I just don't see how Buckner ends up as a really good pass rusher as a 3-4 Dlineman, and if he's not going to be a pass rusher, I really don't have a ton of interest in him as a top 10 pick at that position.

I asked this question to other people before... if Buckner ended up with a career just like Haloti Ngata's time in Baltimore, would you consider that to be a good pick at #6? I'd say that's sort of his ceiling.

Uh yes? If he were able to bring that level of production here then we would be in great shape. There are more pressing needs no doubt, but Ngata stuffed the run, made big played when they were needed, such as forcing fumbles in the back field, and he also occupied blockers while intimidating them.

I don't know if Buckner lives up to that simply because his center of gravity is far different from Ngata's. From my perspective, he most likely will not have a bull rush nearly as effective as Ngata's as he just plays too high and gets mauled by guards.

If we didn't have a chance at landing Bosa, Ramsey, Jack, or Tunsil, and we were picking at 8 or 9 then he is worth the slight gamble, but I still think even Elliot, Lawson and Hargreaves are more refined at their positions than Buckner, hence will be safer picks.

[WNC-Raven]

1 hour ago, TorryGundy said:

I really want Buckner. He can start week one for us over Guy who is not a starter in my opinion. Tunsill is starting to look good as I have no idea what Monroe is going to look like. Ramsey may be a pipe dream, I don't think he will fall to us. Hargraves is not worth the 6th pick. Bosa would be a back up for this year but will never give you what Sizzle or Doom brings , so taking him that soon might not be so good. I don't want to be Ozzie right now.

I would bet that Ozzie and DeCosta have finished their ranking of players for the #6 pick weeks ago and will just let it play out. What has probably been keeping them working late is the rest of the draft board. Especially what they may be able to find in the 4th with all of those picks.

[Tower of Power]

I can't vote [non-resident], but I say we get DeForest Buckner at 6 (or 7or 8).

[rmcjacket23]

13 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Uh yes? If he were able to bring that level of production here then we would be in great shape. There are more pressing needs no doubt, but Ngata stuffed the run, made big played when they were needed, such as forcing fumbles in the back field, and he also occupied blockers while intimidating them.

I don't know if Buckner lives up to that simply because his center of gravity is far different from Ngata's. From my perspective, he most likely will not have a bull rush nearly as effective as Ngata's as he just plays too high and gets mauled by guards.

If we didn't have a chance at landing Bosa, Ramsey, Jack, or Tunsil, and we were picking at 8 or 9 then he is worth the slight gamble, but I still think even Elliot, Lawson and Hargreaves are more refined at their positions than Buckner, hence will be safer picks.

Right, and my point is... if I think his CEILING is Ngata, meaning that's about as good as he can be, is he worth that pick?

Are we going to use a top 10 pick on a guy who just helps us stop the run and maybe opens up some pass rush lanes for other players?

 

[Tower of Power]

By the way, I don't think it's fair that nonresidents cannot vote: for instance, you have a bunch of Marylanders who think that Flacco is not elite, and another weird bunch who say that they root for the redskins - and THOSE could vote!!!