Tank the 2015 season, revisited.

[Kinda_Dante]

3 minutes ago, Winchester said:

The ravens were broken and out of the race after lap. The car analogy is fine. If you do not have the juice to win what is then point in racing?? The car is not capable of winning. It would take more than one car to crash for ravens to win. Get the necessary parts you need to win. It is mind boggling how many fans actually thought the ravens were playoff contenders midway into the season. You honestly believe a playoff loss is successful?? 

 

The bucs fired him. Then he coached the colts and their defense got worse with him. Gruden coached the bucks defense in 2002 and it got far better under Gruden and won a championship.

He won a championship with the colts in 2006. He wasn't fired as a head coach for the Colts he retired from coaching.

[usmccharles]

44 minutes ago, Winchester said:

The ravens were broken and out of the race after lap. The car analogy is fine. If you do not have the juice to win what is then point in racing?? The car is not capable of winning. It would take more than one car to crash for ravens to win. Get the necessary parts you need to win. It is mind boggling how many fans actually thought the ravens were playoff contenders midway into the season. You honestly believe a playoff loss is successful?? 

I'll ask again... How long have you been a Ravens fan? 

Edited April 22, 2016 by usmccharles

[Moderator 3]

Just now, usmccharles said:

I'll ask again... How long have you been a ravens fan? 

Maybe it should be "Are you a Ravens fan?"

[usmccharles]

1 minute ago, Moderator 3 said:

Maybe it should be "Are you a Ravens fan?"

Haha valid point... I honestly wonder if he's a member on every team forum.   

[harfordravenfan]

8 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

Maybe it should be "Are you a Ravens fan?"

Sad part is I knew right of the bat who you was talking about

[ravgo52]

What's more important? Future draft picks or developing the draft picks you have already made? I have nothing but the highest of praise for John Harbaugh for teaching these backups to never Quit! This Was Their Chance to Shine!! And they DID! With a backup QB that was picked up 12 days earlier! There is not enough 1st round ( unexperienced in the NFL ) picks that can replace that! Now we know just what we're working with and what gaps that need we need to fill in the draft! That was possibly the most valuable season we could have asked for under those circumstances ! Go Ravens!!

[Tank 92]

This was beat to death during the season and I'm not sure why it was brought back up.

No winning professional sports franchise deliberately tanks games. The reasons have been discussed ad nauseum.     

[JoeyFlex5]

Didn't wanna tank but I was finding myself a little irritated when the browns gave us the game in classic browns fashion

[redrum52]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Didn't wanna tank but I was finding myself a little irritated when the browns gave us the game in classic browns fashion

Yea.  

 

The funny thing is, if you asked me during the week if we should tank, I'd say yes, but come game day, I wanted the W.

[Winchester]

6 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

Maybe it should be "Are you a Ravens fan?"

Really?? I'm not a fan cuz I don't believe the team and players are better than what he really is. No Einstein!! I just want the ravens to have all those draft picks the browns got to draft waterboys!! people's logic is amazing. Let's just have a team of scrubs and pretend the team is really good!! And flame anybody who doesn't want to play along. The obvious conclusion is I want ravens to have a team that everybody knows is going to win the superbowl.  Not a team the homers hope can win. Awesome how everybody is pretending 2 meaningless wins is better than a freaking boatload of picks. And pretending all those picks would not help win superbowls. Like the one pick in round one is just as good and just as likely put the ravens at the top of the pecking order.

 

6 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Haha valid point... I honestly wonder if he's a member on every team forum.   

Seriously?? What would be the point in that. I obviously have better things to do than frequent 20 boards. I could see you.

[Winchester]

6 hours ago, Kinda_Dante said:

He won a championship with the colts in 2006. He wasn't fired as a head coach for the Colts he retired from coaching.

Never said he was!! He was fired by the bucs. And the bucs defense did get better under Gruden and won the superbowl.

[K-Dog]

31 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Really?? I'm not a fan cuz I don't believe the team and players are better than what he really is. No Einstein!! I just want the ravens to have all those draft picks the browns got to draft waterboys!! people's logic is amazing. Let's just have a team of scrubs and pretend the team is really good!! And flame anybody who doesn't want to play along. The obvious conclusion is I want ravens to have a team that everybody knows is going to win the superbowl.  Not a team the homers hope can win. Awesome how everybody is pretending 2 meaningless wins is better than a freaking boatload of picks. And pretending all those picks would not help win superbowls. Like the one pick in round one is just as good and just as likely put the ravens at the top of the pecking order.

 

 

You technically have yet to answer the question "are you a Ravens fan "

[Winchester]

Just now, K-Dog said:

You technically have yet to answer the question "are you a Ravens fan "

Of course I'm a ravens fan since 1999. Did you technically need that framed??? Any further questions there K-Dog??

[K-Dog]

Framed? No, thank you, but I do appreciate the offer. I have no further questions at this time Winchester. 

[cobrajet]

Maybe those wins against Pittsburgh cost us a boat load of draft picks or our choice of the best player, but they felt so good. I especially would not want to take back that win after being in that Pittsburgh bar in my Ravens jersey during the holidays, because for me that win just felt too damned good! That win also shut my in-laws up during that Christmas visit..........so totally worth it! If you have a dog in the fight, it is personal. Maybe some fans feel that that game was meaningless and we were better off losing it........not me!

[Winchester]

22 minutes ago, cobrajet said:

Maybe those wins against Pittsburgh cost us a boat load of draft picks or our choice of the best player, but they felt so good. I especially would not want to take back that win after being in that Pittsburgh bar in my Ravens jersey during the holidays, because for me that win just felt too damned good! That win also shut my in-laws up during that Christmas visit..........so totally worth it! If you have a dog in the fight, it is personal. Maybe some fans feel that that game was meaningless and we were better off losing it........not me!

So beating an overrated Steelers team is better than winning a couple superbowls?? Because those picks could very well put ravens in position to win a couple superbowls. That is how you measure success?? That is enough for you?? So if  Steelers won the superbowl and ravens beat them in the regular season you would be fine with that?? A couple regular season wins and 5-11 feels good ?? Seriously

[Maryland]

1 hour ago, cobrajet said:

Maybe those wins against Pittsburgh cost us a boat load of draft picks or our choice of the best player, but they felt so good. I especially would not want to take back that win after being in that Pittsburgh bar in my Ravens jersey during the holidays, because for me that win just felt too damned good! That win also shut my in-laws up during that Christmas visit..........so totally worth it! If you have a dog in the fight, it is personal. Maybe some fans feel that that game was meaningless and we were better off losing it........not me!

The Jets let us down so hard the following week... made that upset somewhat meaningless in the grand scheme.

It went from being an utterly embarrassing knock-out punch by Malett to end their season to just a loss most will forget. 

[sflegend89]

For probably the 100th time, nobody wanted us to actively try to tank, it was more so just hoping that we lost out at a certain point because the playoffs were out the window and we stood to benefit far more from improved draft position than from winning what were essentially garbage time games. Thank goodness the refs screwed up the end the Jags and Raiders games, actually ended up doing us a huge solid. 

[757RavensFan]

7 hours ago, Winchester said:

So beating an overrated Steelers team is better than winning a couple superbowls?? Because those picks could very well put ravens in position to win a couple superbowls. That is how you measure success?? That is enough for you?? So if  Steelers won the superbowl and ravens beat them in the regular season you would be fine with that?? A couple regular season wins and 5-11 feels good ?? Seriously

This really makes no sense!! Year in and year out the same handful of teams pick in the top 10 of the draft! However, after using all those picks every year to fill their roster they dont even come close to sniffing the Superbowl, let alone the playoffs.

 The one thing about constantly losing is, the organization, coaches and players kind of accept the fact that winning it all is highly unlikely and they just go through the motions. 

Luckily for "true" Ravens fans, we recognize last year was an anomaly and tanking isn't needed to get "picks" to make us a playoff team again. 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2016 by 757RavensFan

[K-Dog]

That's a smart post right there.

 

BTW, we won two super bowls.  I wonder were we picked two or three years prior. 

As a matter of fact I would like to see where the past ten Super Bowl winners picked two or three years prior. 

Edited April 23, 2016 by K-Dog

[ALPHA]

Didn't the Browns get a killer deal with the Redskins for RG3? well they're not exactly in contention this season, I'm willing to bet they won't be in 3 years time.

[Winchester]

1 hour ago, ALPHA said:

Didn't the Browns get a killer deal with the Redskins for RG3? well they're not exactly in contention this season, I'm willing to bet they won't be in 3 years time.

Rams did

[Winchester]

3 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

This really makes no sense!! Year in and year out the same handful of teams pick in the top 10 of the draft! However, after using all those picks every year to fill their roster they dont even come close to sniffing the Superbowl, let alone the playoffs.

 The one thing about constantly losing is, the organization, coaches and players kind of accept the fact that winning it all is highly unlikely and they just go through the motions. 

Luckily for "true" Ravens fans, we recognize last year was an anomaly and tanking isn't needed to get "picks" to make us a playoff team again. 

 

 

Once again just cuz some teams screw their picks to hell is not thesis that every team will. You act as if a couple terrible franchises moves devalues top end draft picks. And want to pretend the ravens 2picks is as good as having a boatload Of picks and it doesn't matter. Because the ravens won for several yrs it means ravens will continue to win and will not need extra draft picks. And you want all"true "  ravens fans to play along with that thought  winning franchises do not need extra draft picks to continue to win. And pretend All those extra draft picks will make no difference.  Only true ravens fans will play along. Last year was an anomaly?? Let's revisit this thread!! Why is it?? Oooh the injuries!! Of course!! The ravens were not losing games already!!

[Deflated Football]

16 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Didn't wanna tank but I was finding myself a little irritated when the browns gave us the game in classic browns fashion

Where would that have put us in the draft? Two or Three-ish?

[The Mom Gene]

5 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

This really makes no sense!! Year in and year out the same handful of teams pick in the top 10 of the draft! However, after using all those picks every year to fill their roster they dont even come close to sniffing the Superbowl, let alone the playoffs.

 The one thing about constantly losing is, the organization, coaches and players kind of accept the fact that winning it all is highly unlikely and they just go through the motions. 

Luckily for "true" Ravens fans, we recognize last year was an anomaly and tanking isn't needed to get "picks" to make us a playoff team again. 

Agreed!  100%

We contend every year.  I look at those "other organizations" and I see teams that just don't get it.  I just figure we have a fantastic organization.  One that knows how to work to put guys together.  Teams like the Dolphins down here...  They build their teams by overpaying veterans.  They bring in one or two and expect the team to thrive.  It just doesn't work that way.  They did it by overpaying Ellerbe, who didn't have the guys around him to support him.  They did the same thing with Wallace.  Not to mention a few others too.  But yes, when you look at the picks all of these teams have had, you'd expect them to have a mack-daddy team. 

 

You gotta have the other pieces around you.  It's not even about superstars.  It's how to pick the guys that "will fit".  Our team knows how to do that.  And they know how to motivate them too.  There is so much more to it all than having high picks every year.

 

[Ravenslifer]

If we had to pick so high, I agree I'd rather have had a top 3 pick in this draft than pick 6.  However, we have the pick we do now, there's no use looking back.  Regardless, we haven't had a pick this high in over a decade, haven't had a top 10 pick since 2008, so we're going to be picking from a pool of talent we haven't had the opportunity at in quite some time.  Rather than be upset we were aren't guaranteed Laremy Tunsil or Jalen Ramsey or traded a pick for a boatload of picks, I'm happy we're still likely to end up with a franchise cornerstone with our top pick, and quite possibly even our second round pick since that player will likely be a top 30 talent on our board.  Coupled with a healthy team and our offseason moves, that should put us right back in Superbowl contention, and that's where I want to be.  Truthfully, Ramsey, Bosa, Tunsil, Elliot, Buckner, Jack, any of those guys would help our chances at a Superbowl in the next decade.  So what difference does it make who we end up with?  So what if we only get one of those guys instead of being able to trade back and land two great players.  One great player is still much better than zero.  And I'm glad we didn't give up at the end of the season - it showed me that a guy like Kamar Aiken is worth keeping around for a long time if we can get a deal done.  It showed me that we have some promise at the tight end spot for the future.  I think it allowed the front office to see where there were more vulnerabilities than they were willing to admit, and they took steps to address some of those already, and I think this draft will continue to address some of those.  And in the end, winning those games showed we have guys who will play 60 minutes, all the time, every time, and that's how you win Superbowls - see Denver game 2012-2013 playoffs.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Ravenslifer

[ALPHA]

3 hours ago, Winchester said:

Rams did

You're right it was the Rams, the Browns fleeced the Bills for Watkins. The point is none of those teams are contenders.

[usmccharles]

7 hours ago, Winchester said:

Once again just cuz some teams screw their picks to hell is not thesis that every team will. You act as if a couple terrible franchises moves devalues top end draft picks. And want to pretend the ravens 2picks is as good as having a boatload Of picks and it doesn't matter. Because the ravens won for several yrs it means ravens will continue to win and will not need extra draft picks. And you want all"true "  ravens fans to play along with that thought  winning franchises do not need extra draft picks to continue to win. And pretend All those extra draft picks will make no difference.  Only true ravens fans will play along. Last year was an anomaly?? Let's revisit this thread!! Why is it?? Oooh the injuries!! Of course!! The ravens were not losing games already!!

Of course the draft picks would help, i just dont think its worth losing on purpose, for any reason.  Like i said before, agree to disagree.

[52520Andrew]

Don't know why I am entering this mess but here are my thoughts on the subject.

I don't mind losing if we are already not making the playoffs(or very likely not to) and it isn't against the Steelers(and more likely than not the Pats). I don't see the benefit of beating a team I could care less about as it hurts us in the future by not getting as good a player and the only benefit is feeling better for a week. I could go into Mills Utilitarianism and the benefits of long term pleasures over short term pleasures but I won't bore you. 

And yes, I would take what the Titans got any day of the week for a couple more losses last year. The name of the game for me is Superbowls and if losing a couple games gets us closer to that, so be it. The picks the Titans got and the position the Chargers are currently in are both superior to our own.

The biggest thing I am against however is a team willingly losing and giving up. I want the team to fight as hard as they can and just come up short. I think losses like that are the ones where you learn the most and I don't want the team to give up.

That doesn't mean I as a fan have to root for a win and while I respect those that do, I am more intrigued about the team's future if there is no hope at the Lombardi this year(aka out of contention). Wins at this point hurt us as they give us a harder schedule and a worse player in the draft so I root for what is best for the team long term in these situations.

So basically to sum it all up, if we are out of the playoffs or close to it, I am more towards a team losing as opposed to winning(unless it is the Steelers) as I do not see a benefit to wins at this point but do to a better draft pick. I do not however want the team to give up and I want to see them continue to fight throughout as hopefully these losses can make them stronger. 

[52520Andrew]

On 4/22/2016 at 11:41 AM, usmccharles said:

And i know im beating a dead horse.  But i will literally pay pal you $5 if you start forming paragraphs. 

Maybe a few of us should chip in