Tank the 2015 season, revisited.

[K-Dog]

If I recall talk of tanking for the 2015 season started right about the time Steve Smith got hurt, week eight.

 

It picked up steam as the season went on.  People wanted a number one pick or top five.
So where we (currently) sit at six and right now our picking could well be more like a three or a four.  No way were we going to pick a QB first.  

It all boils down to let the team do what the team does, and then let the pieces fall where they may.  And then TRUST OZZIE.

I am sooooooo glad we didn't tank.  

[redrum52]

17 minutes ago, K-Dog said:

If I recall talk of tanking for the 2015 season started right about the time Steve Smith got hurt, week eight.

 

It picked up steam as the season went on.  People wanted a number one pick or top five.
So where we (currently) sit at six and right now our picking could well be more like a three or a four.  No way were we going to pick a QB first.  

It all boils down to let the team do what the team does, and then let the pieces fall where they may.  And then TRUST OZZIE.

I am sooooooo glad we didn't tank.  

Do you see what the Titans got ?  If we could've only beat the Steelers for our 2 wins, I'd have taken that.

Edited April 22, 2016 by redrum52

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

Is this a sarcastic thread?Had we not beat either Cle or Pit we could've been in San Diegos spot and could have our pick of any player in the draft after the QBs are gone.Had we lost both games,we could've been one of the teams to trade back for a kings ransom and would've more than likely had a top ten pick even after a bounce back season in the playoffs.Both of the teams grabbing rookies look like double digit loss teams to me.Why would you be glad that we missed out on those scenarios just to win two pointless games in a down year?The loot we could've gotten would've made us a LOADED team for the next five to seven years.

Edited April 22, 2016 by HomeoftheBRAVENS

[Gtown Purple]

After seeing what the titans got for the number 1 pick it would have been intriguing. Didn't sniff the playoffs anyway.

[ALPHA]

If it's not cheating it's quitting and I'm not sure which is worse, if we teach losing culture to our younger players we'll become the Browns in no time.

Lets not forget nobody wanted to move up in 2014.

[ludy51]

People forget that this organization is made up of hundreds of people in a giant machine. Not just players and coaches on gameday. Peoples jobs and lives depend on a successful season but that doesn't seem to matter to some of the people on here. People who want us to tank can go support Cleveland. I'll take the "pointless" wins anyday.

[harfordravenfan]

42 minutes ago, ludy51 said:

People forget that this organization is made up of hundreds of people in a giant machine. Not just players and coaches on gameday. Peoples jobs and lives depend on a successful season but that doesn't seem to matter to some of the people on here. People who want us to tank can go support Cleveland. I'll take the "pointless" wins anyday.

Gotta agree, creating and maintaining a "never give up" attitude is something to be proud of. 

[Daft Classic]

Is tanking ever a good idea (or even a thought?) for an organization like the Ravens? No. Would we be way better off draft wise if we didn't sneak out wins against Cleveland, San Diego, or St. Louis? Hell yes. Just look at what the Titans and Browns got. Heck, Cleveland got a boatload AND got to stay in the top 10

[A Fish Called Yanda]

Don't think I ever actively rooted for us to lose, but I certainly didn't mind it as much as normal after a certain point.

That Pittsburgh win sure was bittersweet.

[Maryland]

I think it depends on your definition of tanking. I view tanking as what the 76ers are doing in basketball: deliberately making their roster unable to compete in games. I would not want this for the team; it breeds a losing culture.

Some view tanking as simply losing a lot of games. Am I disappointed when we lose after being eliminated from the playoffs while competing for draft position? No. Each spot closer you get to the top gives you a better chance of drafting a blue-chip prospect or trading the pick for several more picks that will help rebuild your roster. Though I was happy to beat the Steelers week 16, I was not disappointed losing to the Chiefs the week before--this kept us from falling down in the draft and losing value to help rebuild our roster in 2016. 

[Winchester]

I do not believe in that losing culture bs!! Now that the Raiders and jags have building blocks watch how that so called losing culture changes when the right players come around!! Let the ravens foul up this draft and you will see a losing culture when there is no talent capable of winning games. Players and coaches determine winning. Not what a team did a couple seasons prior. if your goal is 9 wins every year then fine try yo hit that or come close. If your goal is a superbowl then losing gets you closer to achieving that. So with that said I rooted for the ravens to lose when it was clear the ravens were not going to  contend.

[Tru11]

20 minutes ago, Winchester said:

I do not believe in that losing culture bs!! Now that the Raiders and jags have building blocks watch how that so called losing culture changes when the right players come around!! Let the ravens foul up this draft and you will see a losing culture when there is no talent capable of winning games. Players and coaches determine winning. Not what a team did a couple seasons prior. if your goal is 9 wins every year then fine try yo hit that or come close. If your goal is a superbowl then losing gets you closer to achieving that. So with that said I rooted for the ravens to lose when it was clear the ravens were not going to  contend.

im quite curious on how exactly does losing get you closer to a SB.

as far as i can see is that the teams that have made the SB lately have been picking from mid to late round so that pretty much debunks your theory.

but by all means do tell though

 

[ALPHA]

1 hour ago, Winchester said:

I do not believe in that losing culture bs!! Now that the Raiders and jags have building blocks watch how that so called losing culture changes when the right players come around!! Let the ravens foul up this draft and you will see a losing culture when there is no talent capable of winning games. Players and coaches determine winning. Not what a team did a couple seasons prior. if your goal is 9 wins every year then fine try yo hit that or come close. If your goal is a superbowl then losing gets you closer to achieving that. So with that said I rooted for the ravens to lose when it was clear the ravens were not going to  contend.

I'm not sure why you used the Raiders and Jags as examples as neither had a winning record or made the playoffs last season. I can't actually remember the last time either was in the playoffs.

Edited April 22, 2016 by ALPHA

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, Winchester said:

I do not believe in that losing culture bs!! Now that the Raiders and jags have building blocks watch how that so called losing culture changes when the right players come around!! Let the ravens foul up this draft and you will see a losing culture when there is no talent capable of winning games. Players and coaches determine winning. Not what a team did a couple seasons prior. if your goal is 9 wins every year then fine try yo hit that or come close. If your goal is a superbowl then losing gets you closer to achieving that. So with that said I rooted for the ravens to lose when it was clear the ravens were not going to  contend.

What in the world? Just when I thought this topic was done with...Goal should be playoffs every year, once you get in anything can happen. 

Growing up playing sports, still playing sports, always being competitive, in no way is it ever ok to lose. I hate losing, at anything.  Each player should always go out on the field with intentions of a W.  Does it not say anything that all the teams that are competitive are always picking 20s or later?  You get rare instances that a team like us and the Cowboys have a bad season due to injuries, I expect us to be picking 20 or later again next year.  Losing gets you closer to winning is something I will never understand nor support. 

In all honesty, how long have you been a Ravens fan? 

How well has the Browns done drafting so high every year?

[Winchester]

6 hours ago, ALPHA said:

I'm not sure why you used the Raiders and Jags as examples as neither had a winning record or made the playoffs last season. I can't actually remember the last time either was in the playoffs.

No?? Wait til the upcoming season!! I can not believe we are even having this conversation after watching dozens of teams draft good players Then turn around losing ways. The teams will make it.

[Kinda_Dante]

16 minutes ago, Winchester said:

No?? Wait til the upcoming season!! I can not believe we are even having this conversation after watching dozens of teams draft good players Then turn around losing ways. The teams will make it.

Those teams we're out of the playoffs for like 15 straight seasons? So is that what you want from the Ravens? Most of the teams that pick towards the top of the draft stay there. The titans picked 2nd overall last year and now they had the first, the Jags had the 5th pick last year as well or somewhere around there, we all know the Browns always pick top 10, and the Raiders although they did improve they still didn't make the playoffs. So losing doesn't really help.

[ALPHA]

25 minutes ago, Winchester said:

No?? Wait til the upcoming season!! I can not believe we are even having this conversation after watching dozens of teams draft good players Then turn around losing ways. The teams will make it.

They are talented teams, arguably more talented than us but then so are the Bengals, and we all know how the Bengals fold up like paper in the playoffs. Talent isn't enough.

[Winchester]

6 hours ago, usmccharles said:

What in the world? Just when I thought this topic was done with...Goal should be playoffs every year, once you get in anything can happen. 

Growing up playing sports, still playing sports, always being competitive, in no way is it ever ok to lose. I hate losing, at anything.  Each player should always go out on the field with intentions of a W.  Does it not say anything that all the teams that are competitive are always picking 20s or later?  You get rare instances that a team like us and the Cowboys have a bad season due to injuries, I expect us to be picking 20 or later again next year.  Losing gets you closer to winning is something I will never understand nor support. 

In all honesty, how long have you been a Ravens fan? 

How well has the Browns done drafting so high every year?

That's freaking brilliant use the browns as models!!  Just cuz the browns screw their draft picks to hell early picks are useless. But even cleveland will eventually begin hitting on all these picks. Losing gives you your pick of any player you want. And in many cases allows for a trade and a boatload of picks. Then the ravens can even participate fully in free agency as opposed to digging in the dirt for round4 comp picks. You are not stupid You know exactly how losing can help you win the next season!! But I will break it down for you. If you are a racer and you are fronting a 350z and you are racing corvettes and mustangs is going full tilt once you are a spec in the rearview is pushing harder going to get you a trophy?? Or in NASCAR if your car is broken or needing more juice to win, is hitting the gas going to help you?? More likely you're going to blow a a piston gasket or ring. Don't you think it is smarter to pull in for  repairs adding better parts and try to win the next race when you are better equipped to win the trophy. The trophy is the goal is it not?? Anything else is a failure!! What I do not understand is calling making the playoffs successful. Making the playoffs every year got Tony dungy fired!! Because he did not win a superbowl or even make it to the dance. For the record you can talk yourself into the injuries excuse all you want but the ravens were losing before many of the injuries. Who was injured early before the losses?? Suggs?? How much is he going to help turning 34 coming off Achilles injury?? The ravens need to really nail this draft. And all The picks the browns just got would really help. Sure anything can happen in the playoffs but be realistic. Sure somebody can sport a big gut and go hit on the Victoria's model but that is going to work about as often as a semi bad team going for the championship. 

[ludy51]

Just now, Winchester said:

That's freaking brilliant use the browns as models!!  Just cuz the browns screw their draft picks to hell early picks are useless. But even cleveland will eventually begin hitting on all these picks. Losing gives you your pick of any player you want. And in many cases allows for a trade and a boatload of picks. Then the ravens can even participate fully in free agency as opposed to digging in the dirt for round4 comp picks. You are not stupid You know exactly how losing can help you win the next season!! But I will break it down for you. If you are a racer and you are fronting a 350z and you are racing corvettes and mustangs is going full tilt once you are a spec in the rearview is pushing harder going to get you a trophy?? Or in NASCAR if your car is broken or needing more juice to win, is hitting the gas going to help you?? More likely you're going to blow a a piston gasket or ring. Don't you think it is smarter to pull in for  repairs adding better parts and try to win the next race when you are better equipped to win the trophy. The trophy is the goal is it not?? Anything else is a failure!! What I do not understand is calling making the playoffs successful. Making the playoffs every year got Tony dungy fired!! Because he did not win a superbowl or even make it to the dance. For the record you can talk yourself into the injuries excuse all you want but the ravens were losing before many of the injuries. Who was injured early before the losses?? Suggs?? How much is he going to help turning 34 coming off Achilles injury?? The ravens need to really nail this draft. And all The picks the browns just got would really help. Sure anything can happen in the playoffs but be realistic. Sure somebody can sport a big gut and go hit on the Victoria's model but that is going to work about as often as a semi bad team going for the championship. 

What makes you say that? They always screw it up

[Kinda_Dante]

4 minutes ago, Winchester said:

That's freaking brilliant use the browns as models!!  Just cuz the browns screw their draft picks to hell early picks are useless. But even cleveland will eventually begin hitting on all these picks. Losing gives you your pick of any player you want. And in many cases allows for a trade and a boatload of picks. Then the ravens can even participate fully in free agency as opposed to digging in the dirt for round4 comp picks. You are not stupid You know exactly how losing can help you win the next season!! But I will break it down for you. If you are a racer and you are fronting a 350z and you are racing corvettes and mustangs is going full tilt once you are a spec in the rearview is pushing harder going to get you a trophy?? Or in NASCAR if your car is broken or needing more juice to win, is hitting the gas going to help you?? More likely you're going to blow a a piston gasket or ring. Don't you think it is smarter to pull in for  repairs adding better parts and try to win the next race when you are better equipped to win the trophy. The trophy is the goal is it not?? Anything else is a failure!! What I do not understand is calling making the playoffs successful. Making the playoffs every year got Tony dungy fired!! Because he did not win a superbowl or even make it to the dance. For the record you can talk yourself into the injuries excuse all you want but the ravens were losing before many of the injuries. Who was injured early before the losses?? Suggs?? How much is he going to help turning 34 coming off Achilles injury?? The ravens need to really nail this draft. And all The picks the browns just got would really help. Sure anything can happen in the playoffs but be realistic. Sure somebody can sport a big gut and go hit on the Victoria's model but that is going to work about as often as a semi bad team going for the championship. 

Tony Dungy won a SB in 2006 and retired after yet another season in the playoffs. He wasn't fired...

[BmoreBird22]

4 minutes ago, Kinda_Dante said:

Tony Dungy won a SB in 2006 and retired after yet another season in the playoffs. He wasn't fired...

He also coached the 2002 Bucs defense

[ludy51]

6 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

He also coached the 2002 Bucs defense

He's also TONY FREAKIN' DUNGY!

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, ludy51 said:

He's also TONY FREAKIN' DUNGY!

Yeah, when you're basically credited with helping to invent a defense, you deserve respect.

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, Winchester said:

That's freaking brilliant use the browns as models!!  Just cuz the browns screw their draft picks to hell early picks are useless. But even cleveland will eventually begin hitting on all these picks. Losing gives you your pick of any player you want. And in many cases allows for a trade and a boatload of picks. Then the ravens can even participate fully in free agency as opposed to digging in the dirt for round4 comp picks. You are not stupid You know exactly how losing can help you win the next season!! But I will break it down for you. If you are a racer and you are fronting a 350z and you are racing corvettes and mustangs is going full tilt once you are a spec in the rearview is pushing harder going to get you a trophy?? Or in NASCAR if your car is broken or needing more juice to win, is hitting the gas going to help you?? More likely you're going to blow a a piston gasket or ring. Don't you think it is smarter to pull in for  repairs adding better parts and try to win the next race when you are better equipped to win the trophy. The trophy is the goal is it not?? Anything else is a failure!! What I do not understand is calling making the playoffs successful. Making the playoffs every year got Tony dungy fired!! Because he did not win a superbowl or even make it to the dance. For the record you can talk yourself into the injuries excuse all you want but the ravens were losing before many of the injuries. Who was injured early before the losses?? Suggs?? How much is he going to help turning 34 coming off Achilles injury?? The ravens need to really nail this draft. And all The picks the browns just got would really help. Sure anything can happen in the playoffs but be realistic. Sure somebody can sport a big gut and go hit on the Victoria's model but that is going to work about as often as a semi bad team going for the championship. 

I ask again, how long have you been a Ravens fan?  You yourself even mentioned that you might switch teams.  Damn, i dont know how i got suckered into this argument again. 

I believe i am being realistic, like i have said many times when we discussed this previously, we view things differently.  You wont be able to change my mind and i wont change yours, not trying to just stating my opinion.  I just come from the view point its never ok to lose, especially on purpose.   Injuries did play a huge part into last year, but i dont think we would of been a SB contender like many predicted, i had high hopes as well but it went south quick. 

The car analogy isnt a good one imo.   Adding new parts is what you do in the draft.  Now if you can only afford cams and a turbo, then thats what you do...which is what we do every year.  We dont go start the race and just drive into a wall just so we can go get cams, exhaust, twin turbo, etc...(twin turbo isnt actually as good as single but its just an example).  You stay in the race and if you make the final lap (playoffs) anything can happen, like a car spinning out (opponent has a bad game, fumble, int, etc)

And i know im beating a dead horse.  But i will literally pay pal you $5 if you start forming paragraphs. 

Edited April 22, 2016 by usmccharles

[harfordravenfan]

12 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I ask again, how long have you been a Ravens fan?  You yourself even mentioned that you might switch teams.  Damn, i dont know how i got suckered into this argument again. 

I believe i am being realistic, like i have said many times when we discussed this previously, we view things differently.  You wont be able to change my mind and i wont change yours, not trying to just stating my opinion.  I just come from the view point its never ok to lose, especially on purpose.   Injuries did play a huge part into last year, but i dont think we would of been a SB contender like many predicted, i had high hopes as well but it went south quick. 

The car analogy isnt a good one imo.   Adding new parts is what you do in the draft.  Now if you can only afford cams and a turbo, then thats what you do...which is what we do every year.  We dont go start the race and just drive into a wall just so we can go get cams, exhaust, twin turbo, etc...(twin turbo isnt actually as good as single but its just an example).  You stay in the race and if you make the final lap (playoffs) anything can happen, like a car spinning out (opponent has a bad game, fumble, int, etc)

And i know im beating a dead horse.  But i will literally pay pal you 5$ if you start forming paragraphs. 

Thanks, first lol of the day

[ludy51]

23 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

And i know im beating a dead horse.  But i will literally pay pal you $5.00 if you start forming paragraphs. 

You had the dollar sign on the wrong side! Fixed

[usmccharles]

1 minute ago, ludy51 said:

You had the dollar sign on the wrong side! Fixed

Force of habit when i wrote reports in the Marines.  thanks!

 

11 minutes ago, harfordravenfan said:

Thanks, first lol of the day

Glad i could be of service

[harfordravenfan]

11 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Force of habit when i wrote reports in the Marines.  thanks!

 

Glad i could be of service

Semper Fi

[AsianRice]

I am proud to be a Ravens fan......that's enough of it......

[Winchester]

4 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I ask again, how long have you been a Ravens fan?  You yourself even mentioned that you might switch teams.  Damn, i dont know how i got suckered into this argument again. 

I believe i am being realistic, like i have said many times when we discussed this previously, we view things differently.  You wont be able to change my mind and i wont change yours, not trying to just stating my opinion.  I just come from the view point its never ok to lose, especially on purpose.   Injuries did play a huge part into last year, but i dont think we would of been a SB contender like many predicted, i had high hopes as well but it went south quick. 

The car analogy isnt a good one imo.   Adding new parts is what you do in the draft.  Now if you can only afford cams and a turbo, then thats what you do...which is what we do every year.  We dont go start the race and just drive into a wall just so we can go get cams, exhaust, twin turbo, etc...(twin turbo isnt actually as good as single but its just an example).  You stay in the race and if you make the final lap (playoffs) anything can happen, like a car spinning out (opponent has a bad game, fumble, int, etc)

And i know im beating a dead horse.  But i will literally pay pal you $5 if you start forming paragraphs. 

The ravens were broken and out of the race after lap. The car analogy is fine. If you do not have the juice to win what is then point in racing?? The car is not capable of winning. It would take more than one car to crash for ravens to win. Get the necessary parts you need to win. It is mind boggling how many fans actually thought the ravens were playoff contenders midway into the season. You honestly believe a playoff loss is successful?? 

 

4 hours ago, Kinda_Dante said:

Tony Dungy won a SB in 2006 and retired after yet another season in the playoffs. He wasn't fired...

The bucs fired him. Then he coached the colts and their defense got worse with him. Gruden coached the bucks defense in 2002 and it got far better under Gruden and won a championship.