Eugene Monroe Thread (merged) - Released by Ravens

[B-more Ravor]

On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 9:38 AM, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

We saved a whole $2m basically. Save $6.5m this year, but take on $4.4m in dead money next year.

Dont really see the sense in it either. Sorry you couldnt work out a trade in the ONE day you gave yourself.... but no one was in desperation mode either. Hold him, wait until someone loses their starting LT and has a sense of urgency to grab him in a trade. Or, hold on to the insurance in case Stanley goes down or something.

These are grown men. I just dont see any situation in which the FO or coaching staff should have put the petty differences ahead of whats best for this football team in terms of on field performance.

Can't really look at it that way, though, because the $4.4M was going to count one way or another at some point.  So, unless you expect that he would have played out the contract to completion (2018), they were going to have to deal with the $4.4M next year anyway.  That's basically a sunk cost due to the bonus prorations that can't be avoided.  So, it still comes down to whether they were going to pay him $6.5M to "compete" for a starting spot (and it appears that he's not interested in playing RT or G).  Teams do care about cash too and that's too much for them to pay Monroe (highest base salary on team).  Given his history and given that they had already paid him $17.5M for 2 subpar years, there was no way IMO that they would dream of risking another $6.5M on the possibility that he may stay healthy this time around.

Edited June 20, 2016 by B-more Ravor

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 hour ago, B-more Ravor said:

Can't really look at it that way, though, because the $4.4M was going to count one way or another at some point.  So, unless you expect that he would have played out the contract to completion (2018), they were going to have to deal with the $4.4M next year anyway.  That's basically a sunk cost due to the bonus prorations that can't be avoided.  So, it still comes down to whether they were going to pay him $6.5M to "compete" for a starting spot (and it appears that he's not interested in playing RT or G).  Teams do care about cash too and that's too much for them to pay Monroe (highest base salary on team).  Given his history and given that they had already paid him $17.5M for 2 subpar years, there was no way IMO that they would dream of risking another $6.5M on the possibility that he may stay healthy this time around.

No. If he had played this year and then been cut after the season I don't believe any dead money would have carried to next year. 

He would've made $8.5m this year against the cap this year, and $0 against it next year. 

By releasing him now he counts $2.2m this year and $4.4m next year. That's only a $2m difference. 

The $4.4m only carries to next year bc he's a post June 1st cut which spreads out the remaining dead money over two years.

Thats exactly how you look at it. 

Think of it as a 2 year deal. You can either keep him 1 year and get nothing from him the 2nd year and pay a total of $8.5m OR get nothing from him either year and pay a total of $6.5m. 

Point to me where they're "saving $6.5m."

 

Edit:

I could be wrong in that the dead money would've been there next year had we kept him for this year. Spotrac which is usually my go to for cap implications is already updated. 

If so, you're right on the $6.5m savings. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[rmw10]

17 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

No. If he had played this year and then been cut after the season I don't believe any dead money would have carried to next year. 

He would've made $8.5m this year against the cap this year, and $0 against it next year. 

By releasing him now he counts $2.2m this year and $4.4m next year. That's only a $2m difference. 

The $4.4m only carries to next year bc he's a post June 1st cut which spreads out the remaining dead money over two years.

Thats exactly how you look at it. 

Think of it as a 2 year deal. You can either keep him 1 year and get nothing from him the 2nd year and pay a total of $8.5m OR get nothing from him either year and pay a total of $6.5m. 

Point to me where they're "saving $6.5m."

You're talking to the cap guru right now in Ravor.  Literally the best cap guy for the Ravens there is.

That money is paid out regardless.  It would have been $4.4M in dead cap next year regardless if he was cut now or after the season.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Just read an article on Jake Long and that he's finally healthy after multiple issues with his knee. 

I'd be open to kicking the tires on him during camp. 

He wont cost much at all, he's only 31. While that's not a guy in the peak of his prime, it's also not the end of the line.

Might be decent insurance at tackle if he plays decent, and even if he doesn't make the team I'd like to see a legitimate player for Stanley to have to beat out for the job throughout camp. 

Whether or not he'd want to come here without a clear cut shot at winning a starting job -- I don't know. But with Monroe now available that situation may not present itself for him. 

[B-more Ravor]

1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

No. If he had played this year and then been cut after the season I don't believe any dead money would have carried to next year. 

He would've made $8.5m this year against the cap this year, and $0 against it next year. 

By releasing him now he counts $2.2m this year and $4.4m next year. That's only a $2m difference. 

The $4.4m only carries to next year bc he's a post June 1st cut which spreads out the remaining dead money over two years.

Thats exactly how you look at it. 

Think of it as a 2 year deal. You can either keep him 1 year and get nothing from him the 2nd year and pay a total of $8.5m OR get nothing from him either year and pay a total of $6.5m. 

Point to me where they're "saving $6.5m."

 

Edit:

I could be wrong in that the dead money would've been there next year had we kept him for this year. Spotrac which is usually my go to for cap implications is already updated. 

If so, you're right on the $6.5m savings. 

 

Monroe got an $11M bonus, which is prorated over the 5 years of the deal and initially counts $2.2M against the Cap each year.  Since he was released after June 1, only this year's $2.2M remains on the Cap and the team get the $6.5M in Cap savings (the amount of his base salary).  They do, though, still have to account for 2017 and 2018's prorations of $2.2M each.  So, both of those accelerate and count $4.4M in 2017. 

As I said, they were going to have to account for those either way, you can't escape Cap charges for bonus prorations because they are Cap charges for money already paid. 

So, again, assuming he wasn't going to be on the team next year - one way or another  - then that $4.4M was going to count in 2017 either way.

 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

10 hours ago, B-more Ravor said:

 

Monroe got an $11M bonus, which is prorated over the 5 years of the deal and initially counts $2.2M against the Cap each year.  Since he was released after June 1, only this year's $2.2M remains on the Cap and the team get the $6.5M in Cap savings (the amount of his base salary).  They do, though, still have to account for 2017 and 2018's prorations of $2.2M each.  So, both of those accelerate and count $4.4M in 2017. 

As I said, they were going to have to account for those either way, you can't escape Cap charges for bonus prorations because they are Cap charges for money already paid. 

So, again, assuming he wasn't going to be on the team next year - one way or another  - then that $4.4M was going to count in 2017 either way.

 

Yea i know how the cap works - idk why but i had stuck in my mind the number for pre june 1st release in which we wouldve absorbed the full $6.6m dead money this year.

I also didnt realize that salary cap space could roll over in 2017 as well. I thought that cycle ended in 2016, but it actually does extend to 2017... which matters bc if it hadnt and they didnt end up using all or much of the space they just created, the fact that they did create it wouldnt matter much. But it in fact does, so ill relinquish that point as well.

So, for example a move like this next year wouldnt make any sense unless they had an immediate plan to use the cap space created for an extension or to sign another player. This happens to be the last year under the CBA that even if they dont use it they can roll it over which is valuable.

So, from a financial standpoint - yes it does make some sense, but only if they use the space to extend Williams or Wagner, or sign a legitimate upgrade somewhere via FA. Chances are they will... 

But if Stanley struggles or gets injured and we have to roll with Hurst again, and heaven forbid Joe's getting rocked left and right... that $$ wont seem like much.

[B-more Ravor]

23 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Yea i know how the cap works - idk why but i had stuck in my mind the number for pre june 1st release in which we wouldve absorbed the full $6.6m dead money this year.

I also didnt realize that salary cap space could roll over in 2017 as well. I thought that cycle ended in 2016, but it actually does extend to 2017... which matters bc if it hadnt and they didnt end up using all or much of the space they just created, the fact that they did create it wouldnt matter much. But it in fact does, so ill relinquish that point as well.

So, for example a move like this next year wouldnt make any sense unless they had an immediate plan to use the cap space created for an extension or to sign another player. This happens to be the last year under the CBA that even if they dont use it they can roll it over which is valuable.

 

The CBA allows teams to roll over Cap space every year of the deal (thur 2020). There is no prohibition for doing it after 2017 (or any other year after that).

Edited June 21, 2016 by B-more Ravor

[Tank 92]

Time to move this baby out of the Ravens Talk section. He gone.

[Guest]

On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 8:42 AM, rmw10 said:

On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 8:42 AM, rmw10 said:

I've seen this elsewhere, too.  Teammates weren't huge fans of his personality.

I'm fully with you, berad.  I don't see the appeal in keeping him around.  I'm glad you understand how trust and relationships work when it comes to a team sport.  Too many people are looking at the individual.

Have to concur regarding the above point. The import of Team and Trust is immense, but it goes a couple steps further than you are outlining.  There is also a Trust relationship between the Players and the Front Office and that relationship is not made stronger by jettisoning outspoken veterans and signing free agents, "almost as good".  Too much of that and a team loses its bond and the Baltimore Ravens have been throwing players overboard in spades lately. Compounding the problem is the replacement players have not been "almost as good" and the Cap Limit savings have in many cases have been illusory. 

What we are experiencing is a multiyear period of aggregate poor Front Office decisions and it has reached Critical Mass.

 

[757RavensFan]

On 6/26/2016 at 11:09 AM, Tank 92 said:

Time to move this baby out of the Ravens Talk section. He gone.

Exactly! @berad or any other Mod, why is this still in the Ravens Talk section?  He's no longer a Raven and we ALL know he's not coming back. 

Edited June 27, 2016 by 757RavensFan

[berad]

Re-directed all Eugene FA talk to the other teams thread - http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/67010-2016-free-agent-thread-other-teams/?page=23#comment-2407936