Eugene Monroe Thread (merged) - Released by Ravens

[757RavensFan]

If we somehow draft Tunsil and keep Monroe as well, do you think Monroe would be a good fit at left guard?  

*assuming he stays healthy*  

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, 757RavensFan said:

If we somehow draft Tunsil and keep Monroe as well, do you think Monroe would be a good fit at left guard?  

*assuming he stays healthy*  

Opposite. Play Tunsil at LG, keep Monroe at LT.

Or cut Monroe. Or have open competition and the loser is the swing tackle. Or send Rick Wagner to the bench.

There's literally like 10 viable options.

[RavensFanMania]

26 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Opposite. Play Tunsil at LG, keep Monroe at LT.

Or cut Monroe. Or have open competition and the loser is the swing tackle. Or send Rick Wagner to the bench.

There's literally like 10 viable options.

I wouldn't cut Monroe as it would only be about a 2m dollar savings, which is cheap for a LT.  Next year we will revisit cutting him.

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, RavensFanMania said:

I wouldn't cut Monroe as it would only be about a 2m dollar savings, which is cheap for a LT.  Next year we will revisit cutting him.

If you cut him post June-1, its above $6M in savings... you just take most of the hit in 2017. That cut alone would pay for most of our draft class in 2016.

Not saying its the best option, but its an option.

[GrimCoconut]

Keep Monroe at LT this year and put Tunsil at LG and when or if Monroe gets hurt slide Tunsil over to LT. If both play great then trade Monroe if we can next year in a weaker LT class for a pick and move Tunsil to LT. No need to cut Monroe and be out a backup with a rookie LT. No need to move Monroe either to preserve the OL continuity. 

[Purple_City39]

I know KO made the transition from RT to LG, but that doesn't mean any tackle can be converted to guard easily (remember the Jah Reid LG experiment).  I've seen a few posts on different message boards about Monroe, Wagner, or Tunsil playing LG.  There's nothing to show that any of them would play better than we've seen Urschel on Jensen play.

If they draft Tunsil, they should still play Monroe and let Tunsil sit a few games.  No point rushing him out there if you don't have to.  He'll take over by mid season as Monroe will likely get hurt by week 3 anyway

[The Raven]

Lol hell no. Guards need to not be soft, and they need to be able to drive people off the ball.

[Deflated Football]

8 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Lol hell no. Guards need to not be soft, and they need to be able to drive people off the ball.

So keep Monroe at LT for a year and plug Tunsil at LG?

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, Purple_City39 said:

I know KO made the transition from RT to LG, but that doesn't mean any tackle can be converted to guard easily (remember the Jah Reid LG experiment).  I've seen a few posts on different message boards about Monroe, Wagner, or Tunsil playing LG.  There's nothing to show that any of them would play better than we've seen Urschel on Jensen play.

If they draft Tunsil, they should still play Monroe and let Tunsil sit a few games.  No point rushing him out there if you don't have to.  He'll take over by mid season as Monroe will likely get hurt by week 3 anyway

When it comes to offensive line, I'm a big proponent of simply playing your best five guys. We see plenty of teams end up with Guards at Tackle, Tackles at Guard, shifting the interior around, etc., and many of those teams end up just fine.

Plus, what are we really insinuating with this argument anyway? Are we really going to say we shouldn't draft Tunsil because Monroe is here and there's nowhere for Tunsil to play in year 1?

What if Tunsil isn't even a starter this season at the outset... is that really such a horrible thing? Heck we'd probably have to go back many years to find a season where both of our starting Tackles were healthy for an entire season, so thinking Tunsil would ride pine all year isn't really that logical to begin with.

Frankly, with just about anybody we pick, I'm not sure they are going to be a "starter" in year 1 at the outset. Do we think Joey Bosa is going to be playing like 80% of snaps in year 1? Probably not... he's probably a rotational edge rusher. Do we think Ramsey is going to come in and play 80% of snaps at corner or safety in year 1? Probably not... he'd likely be a nickel corner and play in a lot of nickel and dime packages.

I think we are trying to create problems that tend to solve themselves over time, particularly when the emphasis of a draft pick should be on him being a valuable player for a decade, not just for a season. 

[berad]

JO played his rookie year at LG while a decent LT (Tony Jones) held down the tackle spot. Jones was gone in 1997 and JO slid out to LT.

I could see something similar happening.

[RavensFanMania]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

If you cut him post June-1, its above $6M in savings... you just take most of the hit in 2017. That cut alone would pay for most of our draft class in 2016.

Not saying its the best option, but its an option.

Yes, I'm aware of this option, but I'm typically not a fan of June 1 cuts due to the future dead cap issues, which is why I didn't bring it up myself.  That being said, there is a place and time for everything. 

2 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

Keep Monroe at LT this year and put Tunsil at LG and when or if Monroe gets hurt slide Tunsil over to LT. If both play great then trade Monroe if we can next year in a weaker LT class for a pick and move Tunsil to LT. No need to cut Monroe and be out a backup with a rookie LT. No need to move Monroe either to preserve the OL continuity. 

This is what I would be in favor of unless he is beaten out in camp.

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, RavensFanMania said:

Yes, I'm aware of this option, but I'm typically not a fan of June 1 cuts due to the future dead cap issues, which is why I didn't bring it up myself.  That being said, there is a place and time for everything. 

This is what I would be in favor of unless he is beaten out in camp.

Generally opposed to it as well, but in the end game it really doesn't matter. He has $6.6M in dead money on his deal right now that is going to get picked up by the Ravens one way or another over the next three years.

You can cut him pre-June 1 and eat all of it now, or you can spread it out over two years, but it doesn't change the end amount.

I suppose the trade option after this season could work, but I think fans take this for granted and think teams can just easily trade players all the time. He wouldn't fetch much in a trade even if he does play well, and every team in the league knows we would cut him anyway, so they may decide its not worth giving up anything for him. 

Frankly, you may have a better shot a trade this offseason, considering he's under contract for under $7M each of the next three years. But again, we are talking mid-to-late round pick in that type of trade, so not really getting much. But if I were a team trading for him, I'm certainly low balling, considering I know you will cut him. Pretty much similar to a Boldin situation.

[RavensDieHard21]

I think Tunsil will play LG for one season if we select him and we then have real good quality depth in case of any injuries as Urschel or Jensen could play G while Tunsil kicks out to RT or LT. 

[757RavensFan]

54 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

When it comes to offensive line, I'm a big proponent of simply playing your best five guys. We see plenty of teams end up with Guards at Tackle, Tackles at Guard, shifting the interior around, etc., and many of those teams end up just fine.

Plus, what are we really insinuating with this argument anyway? Are we really going to say we shouldn't draft Tunsil because Monroe is here and there's nowhere for Tunsil to play in year 1?

What if Tunsil isn't even a starter this season at the outset... is that really such a horrible thing? Heck we'd probably have to go back many years to find a season where both of our starting Tackles were healthy for an entire season, so thinking Tunsil would ride pine all year isn't really that logical to begin with.

Frankly, with just about anybody we pick, I'm not sure they are going to be a "starter" in year 1 at the outset. Do we think Joey Bosa is going to be playing like 80% of snaps in year 1? Probably not... he's probably a rotational edge rusher. Do we think Ramsey is going to come in and play 80% of snaps at corner or safety in year 1? Probably not... he'd likely be a nickel corner and play in a lot of nickel and dime packages.

I think we are trying to create problems that tend to solve themselves over time, particularly when the emphasis of a draft pick should be on him being a valuable player for a decade, not just for a season. 

I do!  If we somehow drafted Ramsey and he wasn't the day 1 starter over Wright at CB, I would question if he's as good as projected. That's just me.  

Edited April 21, 2016 by 757RavensFan

[harfordravenfan]

3 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

Keep Monroe at LT this year and put Tunsil at LG and when or if Monroe gets hurt slide Tunsil over to LT. If both play great then trade Monroe if we can next year in a weaker LT class for a pick and move Tunsil to LT. No need to cut Monroe and be out a backup with a rookie LT. No need to move Monroe either to preserve the OL continuity. 

Sumed my thoughts up perfectly

[ALPHA]

52 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

I think Tunsil will play LG for one season if we select him and we then have real good quality depth in case of any injuries as Urschel or Jensen could play G while Tunsil kicks out to RT or LT. 

Most likely scenario, Monroe can't play LG and if he has a healthy year he's a solid LT.

[rmcjacket23]

39 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

I do!  If we somehow drafted Ramsey and he wasn't the day 1 starter over Wright at CB, I would question if he's as good as projected. That's just me.  

Well I'd say there might be some question as to whether he would be an outside corner to begin with.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

When it comes to offensive line, I'm a big proponent of simply playing your best five guys. We see plenty of teams end up with Guards at Tackle, Tackles at Guard, shifting the interior around, etc., and many of those teams end up just fine.

Plus, what are we really insinuating with this argument anyway? Are we really going to say we shouldn't draft Tunsil because Monroe is here and there's nowhere for Tunsil to play in year 1?

What if Tunsil isn't even a starter this season at the outset... is that really such a horrible thing? Heck we'd probably have to go back many years to find a season where both of our starting Tackles were healthy for an entire season, so thinking Tunsil would ride pine all year isn't really that logical to begin with.

Frankly, with just about anybody we pick, I'm not sure they are going to be a "starter" in year 1 at the outset. Do we think Joey Bosa is going to be playing like 80% of snaps in year 1? Probably not... he's probably a rotational edge rusher. Do we think Ramsey is going to come in and play 80% of snaps at corner or safety in year 1? Probably not... he'd likely be a nickel corner and play in a lot of nickel and dime packages.

I think we are trying to create problems that tend to solve themselves over time, particularly when the emphasis of a draft pick should be on him being a valuable player for a decade, not just for a season. 

Tunsil would start at LG and swing to LT when Monroe gets hurt. Bosa more than likely would be a 3 down defender because he is a quality 3 down player, Ramsey offers too much upside at a position that were desperate to fill and he would have to really screw up to only be a nickel corner. 

 

Youd be crazy to think our 6th overall pick will be a backup rotational guy. This isn't the 26-32nd overall picks we've had recently.

[Kinda_Dante]

13 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Tunsil would start at LG and swing to LT when Monroe gets hurt. Bosa more than likely would be a 3 down defender because he is a quality 3 down player, Ramsey offers too much upside at a position that were desperate to fill and he would have to really screw up to only be a nickel corner. 

 

Youd be crazy to think our 6th overall pick will be a backup rotational guy. This isn't the 26-32nd overall picks we've had recently.

Even Jimmy Smith at 27 was gonna start the season if it wasn't for the high ankle sprain.

[ALI624]

Is it odd that we have only officially met with Tunsil once? And that was at the combine which means like a 15 minute meeting. Kind of interesting. Most of the other top prospects we have meet more than once or brought them in for a private visit.

[ALPHA]

21 minutes ago, ALI624 said:

Is it odd that we have only officially met with Tunsil once? And that was at the combine which means like a 15 minute meeting. Kind of interesting. Most of the other top prospects we have meet more than once or brought them in for a private visit.

Don't read too much into it

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Tunsil would start at LG and swing to LT when Monroe gets hurt. Bosa more than likely would be a 3 down defender because he is a quality 3 down player, Ramsey offers too much upside at a position that were desperate to fill and he would have to really screw up to only be a nickel corner. 

 

Youd be crazy to think our 6th overall pick will be a backup rotational guy. This isn't the 26-32nd overall picks we've had recently.

1. He wouldn't be the first top 10 pick who didn't play every snap his rookie season.

2. We still have Suggs and Dumervil, and I doubt either is going to instantly become a backup player. You might see both take less snaps, but its not like Suggs is only going to be on the field 1/3rd of the time. Outside rushers on our team only play like 60-70% of the snaps anyway, so I wouldn't expect Bosa to do much more than that.

In 2-3 years, possibly. Not in year 1. As far as Ramsey, he is likely going to join the long list of highly touted, highly talented rookie corners who struggle in year 1, so I doubt we are going to line him up outside and say "good luck". 

[Kinda_Dante]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

1. He wouldn't be the first top 10 pick who didn't play every snap his rookie season.

2. We still have Suggs and Dumervil, and I doubt either is going to instantly become a backup player. You might see both take less snaps, but its not like Suggs is only going to be on the field 1/3rd of the time. Outside rushers on our team only play like 60-70% of the snaps anyway, so I wouldn't expect Bosa to do much more than that.

In 2-3 years, possibly. Not in year 1. As far as Ramsey, he is likely going to join the long list of highly touted, highly talented rookie corners who struggle in year 1, so I doubt we are going to line him up outside and say "good luck". 

Dumervil would absolutely become a back up player like he did when we had Suggs and Upshaw on the field at the sane time. He will ideally be used as a pass rush specialist and Bosa would be on for run downs then probably kicked inside on passing downs to get inside rush while suggs and doom come off the edge.

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, Kinda_Dante said:

Dumervil would absolutely become a back up player like he did when we had Suggs and Upshaw on the field at the sane time. He will ideally be used as a pass rush specialist and Bosa would be on for run downs then probably kicked inside on passing downs to get inside rush while suggs and doom come off the edge.

You do realize that there was virtually no difference in snap counts between Upshaw and Dumervil correct? Pass rush specialists are playing at least half the snaps.

And what makes you think Bosa will be a quality inside rusher?

[Kinda_Dante]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

You do realize that there was virtually no difference in snap counts between Upshaw and Dumervil correct? Pass rush specialists are playing at least half the snaps.

And what makes you think Bosa will be a quality inside rusher?

Maybe last season when suggs was injured so he had to play more snaps, but not when they were both healthy, and regardless he would play more snaps than Upshaw because he wouldn't come off on passing downs like Upshaw did.

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, Kinda_Dante said:

Maybe last season when suggs was injured so he had to play more snaps, but not when they were both healthy, and regardless he would play more snaps than Upshaw because he wouldn't come off on passing downs like Upshaw did.

Nope, not true.

2014: Suggs played 79%, Dumervil played 56%, Upshaw played 48%.

2013: Suggs played 84%, Dumervil played 52%, Upshaw played 59%.

Even Suggs, who was considered as a 3 down linebacker in those seasons, is playing roughly 80%, and I don't see them giving those kinds of snaps to a rookie who they don't know if he's a good rusher or a good run defender.

He would likely get in the 60% range, which largely makes him a rotational player.

[ALPHA]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Nope, not true.

2014: Suggs played 79%, Dumervil played 56%, Upshaw played 48%.

2013: Suggs played 84%, Dumervil played 52%, Upshaw played 59%.

Even Suggs, who was considered as a 3 down linebacker in those seasons, is playing roughly 80%, and I don't see them giving those kinds of snaps to a rookie who they don't know if he's a good rusher or a good run defender.

He would likely get in the 60% range, which largely makes him a rotational player.

Suggs and Doom are no longer the players they were 3 years ago, Suggs is turning 34 and coming off an achilles tear so both figure to have a reduced workload. If we land a 1st round pass edge rusher they could see higher snaps out of necessity.

 

[harfordravenfan]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Nope, not true.

2014: Suggs played 79%, Dumervil played 56%, Upshaw played 48%.

2013: Suggs played 84%, Dumervil played 52%, Upshaw played 59%.

Even Suggs, who was considered as a 3 down linebacker in those seasons, is playing roughly 80%, and I don't see them giving those kinds of snaps to a rookie who they don't know if he's a good rusher or a good run defender.

He would likely get in the 60% range, which largely makes him a rotational player.

Good post, love data but too lazy and usually on my phone

[rmcjacket23]

11 minutes ago, ALPHA said:

Suggs and Doom are no longer the players they were 3 years ago, Suggs is turning 34 and coming off an achilles tear so both figure to have a reduced workload. If we land a 1st round pass edge rusher they could see higher snaps out of necessity.

 

Right, so Suggs figures to drop into the 50% range, but that doesn't mean some new player is going to come in and play 80-90%.

We will also probably see more out of Dumervil than usual... probably not as much as last season, but more than in 2014 and before. Probably in the 60-70% range I would think.

All this is moot if we don't get said player, and my overall premise is that if fans are already setting expectations of world beaters for whoever we pick, you're probably going to end up disappointed early. A lot of the great players we've had in this franchises history weren't all-World players right out of the draft.

We should expect to get a great player... just not necessarily a great player right out of the gate.

[ellicottraven]

No. If we draft Tunsil, he'll be the LG with Monroe continuing to play LT till he is inevitably hurt.