Not Sold on Webb at Safety

[rmcjacket23]

5 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Webby is penciled in at Safety for at least one season. If we land a safety or Ramsey that could change quickly. But we need safeties that can cover and Weddle will be able to do that an with Webby no longer having to play CB, he will be able to rely on his great instincts where he will be able to protect the end zone.

Correct. If we were able to land Ramsey, Webb is probably here for 1-2 years max and will at least be asked to take a paycut next season or might be gone completely.

Having Webb and Weddle doesn't in any way stop us from taking Ramsey if he is available.

[sflegend89]

16 hours ago, rmw10 said:

It sounds like to me that you just have your mind made up, so no point in debating it any further.

It's not a matter of me not being open to an opposing view point. I made a clear argument as to why Webb's small frame isn't conducive to being a viable full time FS, hence why he was converted to corner out of college in the first place. I'm absolutely open to being convinced otherwise but I have yet to hear anything that makes me think this is going to end well.

[GrimCoconut]

2 hours ago, sflegend89 said:

It's not a matter of me not being open to an opposing view point. I made a clear argument as to why Webb's small frame isn't conducive to being a viable full time FS, hence why he was converted to corner out of college in the first place. I'm absolutely open to being convinced otherwise but I have yet to hear anything that makes me think this is going to end well.

I don't think we converted Webb to CB because of his size but because CB is typically more valued than safety and we still had Ed Reed but if you have evidence proving otherwise I'll listen.

Edited April 21, 2016 by GrimCoconut
Phone deleted CB

[rmw10]

1 hour ago, sflegend89 said:

It's not a matter of me not being open to an opposing view point. I made a clear argument as to why Webb's small frame isn't conducive to being a viable full time FS, hence why he was converted to corner out of college in the first place. I'm absolutely open to being convinced otherwise but I have yet to hear anything that makes me think this is going to end well.

Webb was converted because we thought he could be a damn good CB, and guess what?  He was! Again, I'm not saying this is going to go off without any hitches. I wouldn't be concerned about how tackling though. He knows how to wrap up and has spent a lot of time playing in the box (or at least in the slot) where he has to play run defense. Don't look at the size. Look at the player. You aren't automatically unsuccessful if you have a small frame. Plenty of guys have done well for themselves with a smaller frame. You're generalizing. 

[sflegend89]

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

Webb was converted because we thought he could be a damn good CB, and guess what?  He was! Again, I'm not saying this is going to go off without any hitches. I wouldn't be concerned about how tackling though. He knows how to wrap up and has spent a lot of time playing in the box (or at least in the slot) where he has to play run defense. Don't look at the size. Look at the player. You aren't automatically unsuccessful if you have a small frame. Plenty of guys have done well for themselves with a smaller frame. You're generalizing. 

That's perhaps a half truth. It is true that we viewed him as being better utilized at CB, but his lack of size likely played a large part in reaching that conclusion. The guy was 180 lbs soaking wet coming out of college, thin legs, small frame. I mean you can look at at safeties that are considered undersized like ET3, Gipson, Delmas, Weddle ect. and they still have bigger frames than Webb, they're all about 20 lbs heavier and are wider/denser. The only guy I can think of that has a legitimately smaller frame is Tyrann Mathieu and he's just an absolute monster, he's the exception and not the rule.

I do think the safety position is evolving, I do think there is less of a premium on size there than ever before. Even with that said I still have some serious reservations with this move. Like I stated I just see him creating a false illusion of a starter, we aren't going to find out if he's durable enough or physical enough in training camp. That's the danger with this move, if he's not built to have longevity there we aren't going to find out until the regular season is already under way.

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, sflegend89 said:

That's perhaps a half truth. It is true that we viewed him as being better utilized at CB, but his lack of size likely played a large part in reaching that conclusion. The guy was 180 lbs soaking wet coming out of college, thin legs, small frame. I mean you can look at at safeties that are considered undersized like ET3, Gipson, Delmas, Weddle ect. and they still have bigger frames than Webb, they're all about 20 lbs heavier and are wider/denser. The only guy I can think of that has a legitimately smaller frame is Tyrann Mathieu and he's just an absolute monster, he's the exception and not the rule.

I do think the safety position is evolving, I do think there is less of a premium on size there than ever before. Even with that said I still have some serious reservations with this move. Like I stated I just see him creating a false illusion of a starter, we aren't going to find out if he's durable enough or physical enough in training camp. That's the danger with this move, if he's not built to have longevity there we aren't going to find out until the regular season is already under way.

I don't really see the danger, considering what possible scenario is there where we are worse off at the position than we were last season? If Webb doesn't hold up, we will be starting Kendrick Lewis (or potentially a draft pick), who was the starting FS last season.

If you really look at it, its sort of risk-free. I think this is sort of just the standard fanboard problem... spend a bunch of time identifying potential problems, but spending zero time offering up any reasonable solutions.

Edited April 21, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[rmw10]

2 minutes ago, sflegend89 said:

That's perhaps a half truth. It is true that we viewed him as being better utilized at CB, but his lack of size likely played a large part in reaching that conclusion. The guy was 180 lbs soaking wet coming out of college, thin legs, small frame. I mean you can look at at safeties that are considered undersized like ET3, Gipson, Delmas, Weddle ect. and they still have bigger frames than Webb, they're all about 20 lbs heavier and are wider/denser. The only guy I can think of that has a legitimately smaller frame is Tyrann Mathieu and he's just an absolute monster, he's the exception and not the rule.

I do think the safety position is evolving, I do think there is less of a premium on size there than ever before. Even with that said I still have some serious reservations with this move. Like I stated I just see him creating a false illusion of a starter, we aren't going to find out if he's durable enough or physical enough in training camp. That's the danger with this move, if he's not built to have longevity there we aren't going to find out until the regular season is already under way.

He was moved to CB because we thought he'd be best there, not because we didn't view him as a S. The lack of S talent across the board wasn't as prevalent then - or maybe we just didn't realize it with Ed Reed. Webb was moved to CB because that's where we wanted him to play, not because that's where he had to play. 

[berad]

How big was Jim Leonhard when he played safety for us?

[Winchester]

7 minutes ago, berad said:

How big was Jim Leonhard when he played safety for us?

It is not all about size it is how somebody is put together. While serviceable with instincts to play Webb is injury prone. While not a strong intimidating tackler he is a sound tackler. You can get an idea of anybody's density and how he is put together by observing him in the weightroom and in game by how players react to his contact. Webb has instincts to play the center and decent tackling technique but he is losing speed and injury prone while getting older his frame could get rattled from extra contact. He should be fast enough for free safety. It could be an idea to Sign Leon Hall to split time and play in the event Webb even Weddle gets injured. Leon Hall could be signed for less than $3mil. And could turn to a brilliant signing especially if he starts in the event of an injury to Webb Weddle. He could play very well.

[rmcjacket23]

51 minutes ago, Winchester said:

It is not all about size it is how somebody is put together. While serviceable with instincts to play Webb is injury prone. While not a strong intimidating tackler he is a sound tackler. You can get an idea of anybody's density and how he is put together by observing him in the weightroom and in game by how players react to his contact. Webb has instincts to play the center and decent tackling technique but he is losing speed and injury prone while getting older his frame could get rattled from extra contact. He should be fast enough for free safety. It could be an idea to Sign Leon Hall to split time and play in the event Webb even Weddle gets injured. Leon Hall could be signed for less than $3mil. And could turn to a brilliant signing especially if he starts in the event of an injury to Webb Weddle. He could play very well.

Whats your basis for determining Hall's price tag?

Is this the same method you used to calculate KO's price tag (which wasn't close)?

Plus, Hall is a slot corner who is recovering from back surgery. He's not a safety.

Edited April 21, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[Tru11]

1 hour ago, sflegend89 said:

That's perhaps a half truth. It is true that we viewed him as being better utilized at CB, but his lack of size likely played a large part in reaching that conclusion. The guy was 180 lbs soaking wet coming out of college, thin legs, small frame. I mean you can look at at safeties that are considered undersized like ET3, Gipson, Delmas, Weddle ect. and they still have bigger frames than Webb, they're all about 20 lbs heavier and are wider/denser. The only guy I can think of that has a legitimately smaller frame is Tyrann Mathieu and he's just an absolute monster, he's the exception and not the rule.

I do think the safety position is evolving, I do think there is less of a premium on size there than ever before. Even with that said I still have some serious reservations with this move. Like I stated I just see him creating a false illusion of a starter, we aren't going to find out if he's durable enough or physical enough in training camp. That's the danger with this move, if he's not built to have longevity there we aren't going to find out until the regular season is already under way.

tyrann matthieu seems to do a good job despite his size....

[Winchester]

50 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Whats your basis for determining Hall's price tag?

Is this the same method you used to calculate KO's price tag (which wasn't close)?

Plus, Hall is a slot corner who is recovering from back surgery. He's not a safety.

What are you talking about I was very close on KOs price tank you were way off the reservation. I said he would get well over $10. you brlievec $10 mil is his max. Why are you trying to convince everybody Webb will be a very good safety??  His play will prove him to be very good or a bust at free safety. You said his franchise price was $4mil expensive to what anybody would pay him. His surgery is setting his price. If his injury and surgery is back to normal  he could be a steal. 

Edited April 21, 2016 by Winchester

[rmcjacket23]

50 minutes ago, Winchester said:

What are you talking about I was very close on KOs price tank you were way off the reservation. I said he would get well over $10. you brlievec $10 mil is his max. Why are you trying to convince everybody Webb will be a very good safety??  His play will prove him to be very good or a bust at free safety. You said his franchise price was $4mil expensive to what anybody would pay him. His surgery is setting his price. If his injury and surgery is back to normal  he could be a steal. 

So this wasn't you? $8M per year in January... that's what you said KO would go for.

You don't get to wait until insiders tell you he's going for significantly more, revise your estimate, and then say "I was close". Sorry, don't work that way.

Also, thanks for ignoring the questions I asked, such as how you can up with Halls' price tag, or why you think signing an aging slot corner and converting him to safety is an upgrade over what we did with Webb (which, not coincidentally, was converting an aging slot corner into a safety).

  On 1/9/2016 at 10:48 PM, Winchester said:

Same could be said of tucker. But everybody says get him signed. If KO was offered a generous contract he would sign it. 4 yrs 32-35mil or 5 yrs $40mil with a nice bonus would keep the ravens top free agent off the market. Before going off reputation and saying Yanda is better than KO. Then watch the last couple games. KO is equally as important as Yanda especially considering age and who is the anchor in next year's playoffs. Because if ravens add playmakers and the defense is even pretty good and the Oline is intact and even perhaps adding Tunsil or Stanley then the ravens are very legit Superbowl contenders!! The OLine is the biggest strength. If Campanaro is playing and Perriman returns and contributes and a legit #1 is added.... Think about it what team in the AFC could beat the ravens for sure?? With playmakers and Joe Cool the ravens have a 14 point lead at halftime vs bungals.

[ellicottraven]

I actually think Webb will be a really good free safety. Let's give him a chance.

[trevorsteadman]

Webb at safety is at least good in Madden 16 haha... I think he will do better at safety than corner. That isn't saying much but I think people will be surprised next year.

[harfordravenfan]

9 hours ago, sflegend89 said:

51 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

I actually think Webb will be a really good free safety. Let's give him a chance.

I agree

[K-Dog]

Webb is the Rodney Dangerfield of the Ravens.

"He don't get no respect" 

[gtalk12]

I think we should give the man a chance to play, let's see what he can do back there. We know what he's already done at CB and most likely what he will continue doing....lets watch him play Safety

[harfordravenfan]

20 hours ago, K-Dog said:

Webb is the Rodney Dangerfield of the Ravens.

"He don't get no respect" 

So true. Although he's went through some injuries, he also restructured his contract at least once (bad memory) and has remained a classy guy on and off the field

So hoping he gets a couple early interceptions this season

[Maryland]

22 hours ago, K-Dog said:

Webb is the Rodney Dangerfield of the Ravens.

"He don't get no respect" 

He was getting a lot of respect before tearing his ACL in 2013. Those who knew football recognized him as the best slot corner in the league in 2012.

[K-Dog]

3 hours ago, Maryland said:

He was getting a lot of respect before tearing his ACL in 2013. Those who knew football recognized him as the best slot corner in the league in 2012.

A few people here forgot all about that I think. 

At one point in time he lead the league with fewest touchdowns allowed and fewest pass attempts. 

[Tank 92]

The issue is we have seen comparatively little from Webb in the 4 years following his one all pro year while paying mucho dinero. But it is what it is, stuff happens. Hopefully with the move he has a resurgence in his level of play.   

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

I hope Webb can transition to safety nicely that would just mean the Ravens would have more options if someone gets injured.  

[JoeyFlex5]

Can we just remember all the premiere cb's in history that lost a step for various and converted to safety and had a huge resurgence in play? We had 2 legendary ones here with woodson and prime. 

[thieverycorporation]

I don't think Webb is the best option for a safety. Loyalty is actually the only reason I think of this move. Webb may not finish the season if asked to continuously contribute heavily. I sure hope Cravens or the like is the back up plan. Seriously.

[rmcjacket23]

On 4/23/2016 at 3:01 PM, Tank 92 said:

The issue is we have seen comparatively little from Webb in the 4 years following his one all pro year while paying mucho dinero. But it is what it is, stuff happens. Hopefully with the move he has a resurgence in his level of play.   

Pretty much this. If 2009-2011 Webb was paid like he's being paid now, he would be a pretty good value. He's made almost $34M from 2012-2015. Does anybody really think he's played up to that level?

 

[BmoreBird22]

On 4/21/2016 at 4:08 PM, rmcjacket23 said:

Whats your basis for determining Hall's price tag?

Is this the same method you used to calculate KO's price tag (which wasn't close)?

Plus, Hall is a slot corner who is recovering from back surgery. He's not a safety.

I'm pretty sure the Bengals wanted to convert him to safety (and it makes sense with Dennard, Kirkpatrick, and Jones), but I'm not sure if it ever happened. Wouldn't want him here because he's in the same boat as Webb, except that he's probably dirt cheap.

[jdynamite]

Webb began his career and a consistent tackler, and the last couple years haven't been as good for him. 

People seem to forget Webb was a safety his entire college career and after getting drafted every article read: Will the small school safety actually work as a converted Corner for the Ravens.   

 

Webbs injuries really derailed his development and longevity. 

[The Mom Gene]

I like the analysis here.  This was his draft analysis.  I think he will do well at Safety.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2009/profiles/lardarius-webb?id=81879#profiles-tabs:players-analysis

[The Mom Gene]

On ‎04‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 8:31 PM, harfordravenfan said:

I agree

100%