Quick Mock 2.0

[808Blackbirds]

They are both upshaw 2.0 

36 minutes ago, pep_meister said:

how is he overrated? Spence would be a top 5 pick easy if it wasnt for his history.... the last superbowl showed how much of a premium pass rush is and spence is the only one with a ceiling as high as von miller... shaq lawson is upshaw 2.0

They are both upshaw 2.0 but at least you know shaq lawson is good against the run. Shaq also ran faster than Noah.

Edited April 16, 2016 by 808Blackbirds

[ALPHA]

1 hour ago, 808Blackbirds said:

All those picks for an overrated pass rusher and a reach on an injured player. No please . I rather trade up to get Shaq Lawson but not 6 picks .

I'm not a fan of trading up personally I just wanted to make things interesting, anyways Tunsil and Spence could be busts or 10+ year anchors for all we know.

[808Blackbirds]

6 minutes ago, ALPHA said:

I'm not a fan of trading up personally I just wanted to make things interesting, anyways Tunsil and Spence could be busts or 10+ year anchors for all we know.

No need to trade up i bet Noah will be there at 36 and i rather draft someone else.

[Winchester]

32 minutes ago, pep_meister said:

how is he overrated? Spence would be a top 5 pick easy if it wasnt for his history.... the last superbowl showed how much of a premium pass rush is and spence is the only one with a ceiling as high as von miller... shaq lawson is upshaw 2.0

Thank you.  Lawson is terrible for the nfl.

[808Blackbirds]

10 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Thank you.  Lawson is terrible for the nfl.

How can people hate on former Ravens? Upshaw was great for us and he's still a great player. 

[ALPHA]

6 minutes ago, 808Blackbirds said:

No need to trade up i bet Noah will be there at 36 and i rather draft someone else.

I think the Jets will take him after the Eagles draft Paxton Lynch. 

So Spence ran a 4.8, he plays faster and posted a better vert and broad jump than Lawson. That 40 just tells me he's got bad sprinter technique.

[808Blackbirds]

5 minutes ago, ALPHA said:

I think the Jets will take him after the Eagles draft Paxton Lynch. 

So Spence ran a 4.8, he plays faster and posted a better vert and broad jump than Lawson. That 40 just tells me he's got bad sprinter technique.

Lawson - 33 inch 

Spence - 35 inch

Lawson - 120 inch

Spence - 121 inch

Lawson is also 20 lbs heavier.

[ALPHA]

4 minutes ago, 808Blackbirds said:

Lawson - 33 inch 

Spence - 35 inch

Lawson - 120 inch

Spence - 121 inch

Lawson is also 20 lbs heavier.

He plays like he's 50lb heavier

[808Blackbirds]

4 minutes ago, ALPHA said:

He plays like he's 50lb heavier

you tried to compare but Lawson did better or just as good as Spence. nice try . im done

[Edgar]

3 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I think you got it wrong on your first few picks. I think Chargers go Tunsil, Dallas Ramsey, and Jacksonville Jack. I feel like you forced the first few picks so we'd get Tunsil. Just my honest opinion. 

I don't think it's as far fetched as you suppose. It's definitely fetched but still within the realm of possibility that they value Ramsey over Tunsil.

[ALPHA]

6 minutes ago, 808Blackbirds said:

you tried to compare but Lawson did better or just as good as Spence. nice try . im done

Bottom line is he plays like Upshaw, his skillset doesn't translate to being a double digit sack artist thats why teams are rating Dodd ahead of him.

[Jacquouille]

32 minutes ago, 808Blackbirds said:

Lawson - 33 inch 

Spence - 35 inch

Lawson - 120 inch

Spence - 121 inch

Lawson is also 20 lbs heavier.

Are you really comparing players based on their 40 and measurements?

[808Blackbirds]

13 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Are you really comparing players based on their 40 and measurements?

i didnt want to but ALpha did so i just pulled up the numbers to prove that spence isnt better in "measurements"

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, pep_meister said:

how is he overrated? Spence would be a top 5 pick easy if it wasnt for his history.... the last superbowl showed how much of a premium pass rush is and spence is the only one with a ceiling as high as von miller... shaq lawson is upshaw 2.0

Lawson is not Upshaw 2.0 lol. He is far more explosive off the snap, more agile in his footwork, and has a legitimate arsenal of pass rush moves. Instead of saying Lawson is another upshaw,  I prefer to say he is what the ravens WANTED Upshaw to be. Upshaw was more a projection pick, Lawson is the ready product

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, 808Blackbirds said:

They are both upshaw 2.0 

They are both upshaw 2.0 but at least you know shaq lawson is good against the run. Shaq also ran faster than Noah.

Underwear Olympics. I love both of them and prefer Lawson but I like the change Spence could bring to our defense since we severely lack speed rush. 40 times mean nothing here, if you ask your OLB to sprint 40 yards on the field then I got bad news for ya... I know one thing, Spence is more explosive on tape. He flies off the ball better than anyone in this class and it isn't even close. He bends the corner better than anyone as well, and has a solid sense of leverage and hand usage even if he needs to work on his strength.

[ALPHA]

41 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Lawson is not Upshaw 2.0 lol. He is far more explosive off the snap, more agile in his footwork, and has a legitimate arsenal of pass rush moves. Instead of saying Lawson is another upshaw,  I prefer to say he is what the ravens WANTED Upshaw to be. Upshaw was more a projection pick, Lawson is the ready product

I think Charles Johnson is a better comparison but therein lies the limitations with Lawson, he's stiff and his body/strength is maxed out so there isn't much room to grow as an edge rusher. He might be better on the interior.

[Dame2]

If QBs go 1 and 2 I think it's all in SD if they Take Tunsil I see the Cowboys taking Bosa leaving Ramsey and Jack 

[JoeyFlex5]

45 minutes ago, Dame2 said:

If QBs go 1 and 2 I think it's all in SD if they Take Tunsil I see the Cowboys taking Bosa leaving Ramsey and Jack 

I dont think the cowboys take anyone but ramsey. They're obviously willing to deal with shenanigans so Randy Gregory is still their guy and I don't think they feel pressure to add an edge rusher this early. Im sure they will but I don't think they want bosa, especially not over Ramsey. That's their top guy through and through. I think more likely they make a move for spence from their 2nd. At their first pick I think Zeke and even treadwell are stronger possibilities than bosa for them.

[RayRocks]

Spence isn't nearly as explosive as some people are making him out to be.  If he was as explosive as Von Miller (as one poster said he was the only one with that potential), then he should have had at least 20 sacks last year.

He tested pretty well, but he looks pretty stiff on tape a lot of the time and his first step isn't that impressive.  I think he could turn out to be an okay player and someone you can use as a complimentary pass rusher, but he's definitely not a guy you build a defense around.

[allblackraven]

32 minutes ago, RayRocks said:

Spence isn't nearly as explosive as some people are making him out to be.  If he was as explosive as Von Miller (as one poster said he was the only one with that potential), then he should have had at least 20 sacks last year.

He tested pretty well, but he looks pretty stiff on tape a lot of the time and his first step isn't that impressive.  I think he could turn out to be an okay player and someone you can use as a complimentary pass rusher, but he's definitely not a guy you build a defense around.

You have found the tape on some other Noah Spence.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, RayRocks said:

Spence isn't nearly as explosive as some people are making him out to be.  If he was as explosive as Von Miller (as one poster said he was the only one with that potential), then he should have had at least 20 sacks last year.

He tested pretty well, but he looks pretty stiff on tape a lot of the time and his first step isn't that impressive.  I think he could turn out to be an okay player and someone you can use as a complimentary pass rusher, but he's definitely not a guy you build a defense around.

stiff is definitely the wrong word. i think first step is the wrong word here too. because those 2 things simply dont apply, not in the least bit.

[RayRocks]

39 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

stiff is definitely the wrong word. i think first step is the wrong word here too. because those 2 things simply dont apply, not in the least bit.

 

His bend at the waist is pretty average, at best.  I went back and watched tape from OSU to make sure I wasn't missing anything.  Even in the sack he gets at 2:30 in the game below, he gets by on speed and doesn't bend to get by the tackle.  He sticks his foot in the ground and uses his momentum to get by the tackle.  In the NFL, this wouldn't translate to a sack 95% of the time because NFL left tackles are quicker and have better technique.

In the near-sack he gets at 5:04, he starts lined up outside the TE and the tackle uses terrible technique but still manages to push him past the QB.

In the sack he gets at 6:57, it was a hail marry play and he used speed to get around the tackle again.

 

Even when you watch his get off the ball (first step), he's often behind the other guys on the line.  This was consistent through his time at OSU and EKU, in the tape I watched.

Again, I don't think he's a bad prospect and this has nothing to do with the 'concerns' people have with his history with party drugs.  Just from a football perspective, I have him as a second round pick, slightly below Kamalei Correa (based off potential).  If you watch Correa, and a lot of other pass rush specialists that are mostly speed guys, you'll notice that they have a lot more bend in their hips going around the corner of a tackle.

[443hurricane]

13 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I think you got it wrong on your first few picks. I think Chargers go Tunsil, Dallas Ramsey, and Jacksonville Jack. I feel like you forced the first few picks so we'd get Tunsil. Just my honest opinion. 

Agreed 100% No way San Diego let's tunsil slip past them.

[thieverycorporation]

If the Ravens trade up It shouldn't be for Spence.

[RavensDieHard21]

On April 16, 2016 at 6:07 PM, Winchester said:

Thank you.  Lawson is terrible for the nfl.

How!? Omg, worst statement ever. He might have the deepest pass rush arsenal available, is tough against the run, practically immovable, and has instincts. 

[RavensDieHard21]

On April 16, 2016 at 7:05 PM, ALPHA said:

Bottom line is he plays like Upshaw, his skillset doesn't translate to being a double digit sack artist thats why teams are rating Dodd ahead of him.

The only similarity between the two is that they are both powerful, big, and imposing against the run. Upshaw depended on bull rush and over powering average T in the SEC. He did not ever develop the pass rushing technique of Lawson. Upshaw is an intelligent player, but not an intelligent rusher as he gets neutralized once his bull rush fails.

[RavensDieHard21]

I think we are best off staying put, but I like the creativity of the mock. Far too much for Spence, but ATL is a possible target trade up. Yet at that point, a lot of prospects we want are not really in state of falling yet. That more comes past pick 24 to 25.