[News] Eisenberg: Blockbuster Trade Raises Tough Questions For Ravens

[EdTheMythicalOne]

  5 hours ago, robbie29 said:

Well, if the Ravens can't manage to pickup some elite talent in this draft, AND they lay an egg with another losing season this year, I can see some shakeups and firings in the FO. Don't know who exactly, but I could definitely see that coming. The Ravens got some absolute HOF beasts their first 10 years and more importantly- were able to extend them past the first 4 years of their rookie contract. It's kinda heartbreaking when Baltimore drafts & develops guys like Art Jones, K.O., McPhee, and Torrey Smith and then they're gone after 4 years. Then the Ravens are pretty much forced to sign aging vets in order to fill the void. But what's more disturbing is that no longer is a first round pick (or 2nd round) an all-but-guaranteed stellar player. Mosley is the obvious exception but the talent picked up over the last 8 years of drafts are like night & day when you compare them to the talent drafted 1996-2004. Oh well, here's hoping for a draft reminiscent of the Ravens' first, 20 years ago...

We did get Flacco. That was pretty significant imo. We have had two bad seasons in the last eight. I'll take that any day. I'm sure the Ravens will select the best they can get at six. I trust in Oz.

2006: Haloti Ngata (DT), Sam Koch (P)
2007: Ben Grubbs (OG), Marshal Yanda (OG)
2008: Joe Flacco (QB), Ray Rice (RB)
2009: Paul Kruger (DE/OLB), Michael Oher (OT), Lardarius Webb (DB)
2010: Dennis Pitta (TE), Arthur Jones (DE/DT)
2011: Jimmy Smith (CB), Torrey Smith (WR), Pernell McPhee (DL), Tyrod Taylor (QB)
2012: Kelechi Osemele (OG)
2013: Brandon Williams (NT), Kyle Juszcyzk (FB), Rick Wagner (OT)
2014: Timmy Jernigan (DT), Crockett Gillmore (TE)
2015: Yet to be determined because of playing time but:
Breshard Perriman (WR), Maxx Williams (TE), Carl Davis (DT), Za'Darius Smith (OLB)

Not saying all these guys are HOF'ers, but most of them were/are solid contributors or will be asked to step into more of a starting role in the near future like Perriman, Williams, Davis, and Z. Smith.

[GeeWallee]

There are a handful of talented Players to choose from. Let's make it a good Pick and then hope that we are selecting at the end of each Round.......next Season !
Any Player we get at #6 .......will be a difference maker.

[JimmyBlack]

We will definitely hold the line and take the BPA.  I see Buckner having a slight edge over Bosa at number 6.  Even if the Browns take a QB, the draft will go something like this, Tunsil, Ramsey, Jack, then we pick.  The wildcard will be the Browns taking one of the above instead of a QB.

[TheConquerorWorm]

  58 minutes ago, billiejean said:

  6 hours ago, Fastynart said:

This is a no brainer. You take the LT if he is there, period. Your quarterback is where your money it. If you don't protect his blind side, you are dead no matter how many defensive ends you have. If Flacco is left with that awful Monroe there, he is going to get creamed and the Ravens will go down with him.

fastynart you seem to trash Monroe on a pretty regular basis. I mean i get it, the guy is hurt a lot. But if you knew what you were looking at and knew anything about playing left tackles you would realize that Monroe is a top 10-15 tackle in this league when he is playing. So go for it question his dedication to the game or his toughness but realize that he is a decent left tackle when he is playing. If you can't see that I would be happy to teach you about the position.

There are 32 teams in the NFL so saying a player is around the top 15 is pretty much saying he's an average player because 16 would be right in the middle. That being said I think that is what a healthy Monroe is. He's solid but not spectacular and he's good enough to protect Joe for another year or maybe two until we find a replacement.

Aaron Rodgers finished 15th in QB rating and 16th in Passing Yards.....I would say (using your formula) that he is not just an "Average" QB. I think that "average" line is closer to starter/back-up - there are at least 64 LT in the league, so 32 would be "average". Flacco is an above average (elite?) QB, Schaub is an average QB.

Monroe is a good LT in this league - his problem is staying on the field.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

3 minutes ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

Aaron Rodgers finished 15th in QB rating and 16th in Passing Yards.....I would say (using your formula) that he is not just an "Average" QB. I think that "average" line is closer to starter/back-up - there are at least 64 LT in the league, so 32 would be "average". Flacco is an above average (elite?) QB, Schaub is an average QB.

Monroe is a good LT in this league - his problem is staying on the field.

Rodgers was hurt last season and had a pretty poor season compared to his normal. I am sure if you take his career numbers he ranks out much higher. Most would consider him one of the top 5 QBs in the game right now without a question and some would argue he's the best QB in the game right now.

There are not 64 starting left tackles in this league. There are 32, so ranking 15th out of those you'd be league average for a starting LT.

[FGSB]

Hargreaves

[EdTheMythicalOne]

Hargreaves

not at #6. I think he's too small and too slow, but I am not a professional scout so my opinion isn't any more valid than anybody else.

[ellicottraven]

1 hour ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Marlon Brown hasn't done a thing except be hurt since his rookie season. Daniel Brown had some big plays but he's hardly proven, Darren Waller is moving to TE, and that other guy is Chris Matthews who hasn't done anything since the Super Bowl. Boehringer isn't coming from a small school, he's coming from the German Pro League. And if you compare his physical traits (speed, agility, etc.) I think he's a much better athlete other than Waller, but he's also faster than Waller I think. All of these guys were late round picks, most of them signing tenders which means you can cut them without much or any impact to your cap space. So yeah, you get a guy with that size with that athletic ability and if he can catch a football at all, it makes perfect sense.

I thought Boehringer ran a 4.43 and Waller weighing more and being 2" taller ran a 4.46 40 dash.... that is practically interchangeable. But, how is the German pro league in terms of quality vs say the SEC? I don't know if it is better...

[Crusader]

If this was baseball Ozzie would be batting around .150 the last few years.The only thing he could screw this up now is trade down.

[JoeyFlex5]

this article annoys me, it caters to the uninformed in an insulting way. to even suggest that theres any decision to be made between buckner and tunsil is just ridiculous, its like its trying to entertain fans who dont know that buckner has a long list of limitations at the next level, rather than informing them of the truth. hooray a 6'7" DT/DE hybrid who plays too high and gets stonewalled against interior linemen, so flashy, so sexy, who wants an elite franchise cornerstone LT anyway?

[MdPride1]

Guys this really isn't all that difficult. We NEED to move up and select Jalen Ramsey. Give up a 3rd round pick along with a 4th rounder or two. It wouldn't take that much to move up 2 or 3 spots. It's not like Ozzie has been hitting on his 4th round picks the last few years so use them as ammunition to grab a guy we need.

[Maryland]

Tunsil and Ramsey are not realistic picks at #6. Both will go #3 and #4 in some order (assuming QB goes #1 and #2--hardly a safe assumption). There is no telling what JAX does, but the JAX fan I talk to has them picking Jack, and I am inclined to agree. That leaves Bosa, VH3, Elliott, Stanley, and Buckner as the next best picks, and likely who we will be choosing from. I think I would prefer VH3 out of the bunch, but it's all personal opinion.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Maryland

[bigcatfrank1]

There are some mocks out there that have Tunsil dropping to 6th. I don't really put much faith in mock drafts but I suppose if things do go a certain way that could happen. I could also easily see a team that is close enough to a top pick that really wants or needs Tunsil trading up to get him. But, if he's sitting there at #6 it really does not become a tough choice.

Our offensive line took a hit when it lost Osemele. Eugene Monroe appears to be on the downside of his career now. If he's healthy he can start at LT and if we draft Tunsil he could perhaps play at RT over Wagner (who is coming off a lisfranc and didn't look nearly as good in 2015 as he did in 2014) or he could start at LG which makes a little more sense to me since our starting options are Ryan Jensen or John Urschel.

That sure wouldn't be a sexy pick and it might be the safest pick in the draft, but what's wrong with that when he's the highest rated player in the draft so he's definitely best player available, also fits a need, and could be a franchise LT for years to come?

I would be higher on Jack if he came back with a clearer medical report. Some teams weren't happy with his medicals and maybe that's a smoke screen in an attempt to get his draft stock to fall. If he's our guy I hope to heck the Ravens know for sure that knee is not going to be an issue. I'm not high on Bucker or Bosa. I don't think Ramsey will be there at 6.

So whats the reason the Ravens would not take Stanley at 6. If Ramsey, Tunsil ad Jack are gone. He is healthier than Buckner or Bosa and he could be the solution you go into long detail over.

[Fastynart]

13 hours ago, billiejean said:

19 hours ago, Fastynart said:

This is a no brainer. You take the LT if he is there, period. Your quarterback is where your money it. If you don't protect his blind side, you are dead no matter how many defensive ends you have. If Flacco is left with that awful Monroe there, he is going to get creamed and the Ravens will go down with him.

fastynart you seem to trash Monroe on a pretty regular basis. I mean i get it, the guy is hurt a lot. But if you knew what you were looking at and knew anything about playing left tackles you would realize that Monroe is a top 10-15 tackle in this league when he is playing. So go for it question his dedication to the game or his toughness but realize that he is a decent left tackle when he is playing. If you can't see that I would be happy to teach you about the position.

If you knew what you were talking about you would know that he was the worst graded lineman on the Ravens line last year. It doesn't take a genius to figure that he is not the guy you want protecting the blind side of your franchise. 

[law215]

If this was baseball Ozzie would be batting around .150 the last few years.The only thing he could screw this up now is trade down.

Which he may do or draft Jack and watch him on the sideline for most of the season. That's my feared screw-up. Jack , when healthy, is a top 3 talent college player. If Dallas, Browns, and Jags pass him for others that are not rated as high, red flag.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Here is a tough question.....if the Browns pass on either Wentz or Goff, should we jump on one of those and have him hold a clipboard under Joe a couple years, like Rodgers did for Favre? How often do you pick 6th? Pundits say Goff needs to develop, tons of upside.....Franchise Qb 2?

[EdTheMythicalOne]

13 minutes ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

Here is a tough question.....if the Browns pass on either Wentz or Goff, should we jump on one of those and have him hold a clipboard under Joe a couple years, like Rodgers did for Favre? How often do you pick 6th? Pundits say Goff needs to develop, tons of upside.....Franchise Qb 2?

Flacco is 30 years old and with his build and barring a devastating injury will probably be playing until he's 40. Not trying to insult you here, but I just don't think taking a QB that high in the first round is the right way to go when there is other highly rated talent out there.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

10 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

So whats the reason the Ravens would not take Stanley at 6. If Ramsey, Tunsil ad Jack are gone. He is healthier than Buckner or Bosa and he could be the solution you go into long detail over.

Because I don't think he's the 6th best player in the draft. I'm not so sure he's a top 10 pick. He's not as much of a sure thing as Tunsil. Basically I think it is a reach to take him at 6.

[balfan23]

18 minutes ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

Here is a tough question.....if the Browns pass on either Wentz or Goff, should we jump on one of those and have him hold a clipboard under Joe a couple years, like Rodgers did for Favre? How often do you pick 6th? Pundits say Goff needs to develop, tons of upside.....Franchise Qb 2?

Contract wise, Flacco is locked in for the next 3 and likely 4 years. That's a long time to have a 1st round QB hold a clipboard. One of the great benefits of having a QB we trust for the coming years is to not be compelled to go QB early in the draft and allows us the opportunity to select a game changing play maker at any position of our choosing. 

If this rationale fit, then Dallas would pluck that 2nd QB and we'd have not shot at him anyway. I believe Romo is much closer to his eventual end than Flacco is. 

[cbnbmore]

Another possibility, Cleveland may be willing to trade back if they think they can still get their quarterback at pick six which is very likely considering the teams ahead of us have no need for a quarterback. If the price isn't too high move up and get the best player in the draft, Tunsil.

[balfan23]

6 minutes ago, cbnbmore said:

Another possibility, Cleveland may be willing to trade back if they think they can still get their quarterback at pick six which is very likely considering the teams ahead of us have no need for a quarterback. If the price isn't too high move up and get the best player in the draft, Tunsil.

I believe that a trade back for Cleveland is indeed a possibility, but the most likely scenario for that IMO is that they give up on the notion of drafting whichever of the 2 consensus top QBs is left after the Rams make their pick. The only team I can see jumping to #2 is the Eagles, if they indeed view the one who is left as being their future franchise QB and want to get ahead of everyone else to get him (DAL, but most notably SF). 

I do not see us making a deal with CLE to get Tunsil. As a matter of fact I don't see any team trading into that spot that doesn't involved taking a QB. 

[EdTheMythicalOne]

2 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

I believe that a trade back for Cleveland is indeed a possibility, but the most likely scenario for that IMO is that they give up on the notion of drafting whichever of the 2 consensus top QBs is left after the Rams make their pick. The only team that is going to jump to #2 is going to be the Eagles, if they indeed view the one who is left as being their future franchise QB and want to get ahead of everyone else to get him (DAL, but most notably SF). 

I do not see us making a deal with CLE to get Tunsil. As a matter of fact I don't see any team trading into that spot that doesn't involved taking a QB. 

I could see Cleveland taking Tunsil if their top choice at QB gets taken #1. Joe Thomas isn't getting any younger and they were entertaining trade offers for him. I guess it really depends how highly they have the top two QB's rated. I saw a Mock that has them taking Myles Jack #2. I can't really see that happening with his medical reports. Can you imagine if the Browns take Jack and that knee isn't up to snuff? They need their 1st pick to be a home run even more than the Ravens do so I expect them to go real safe if they don't gamble on a QB.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

14 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

I thought Boehringer ran a 4.43 and Waller weighing more and being 2" taller ran a 4.46 40 dash.... that is practically interchangeable. But, how is the German pro league in terms of quality vs say the SEC? I don't know if it is better...

The quality of the German League is supposedly not even Division III level, which is why you can't really go by the tape or his stats. He's going to be a project, but so are all late round picks. You don't expect a 6th or 7th round guy to come in and be a superstar. While the 40 times for Waller and Boehringer might be around the same, Boehringer benched more times (17 to 12 reps), and his cone and shuttle drill (which measure agility and acceleration) were quite a bit better than Waller's.

The idea is to make your team better and even if you improve the level of your 4th or 5th WR then you made yourself better. Beohringer's natural skills are better than any of the other tall WR's we have and remember that Waller is moving to TE supposedly. He could play on special teams and try his hand at returning kicks or punts while he gets coached up on how to become an NFL WR. Not like M. Brown, D. Brown, or Matthews contributed a whole lot last season or are any locks to contribute in the future.

[The Greek]

  44 minutes ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

Here is a tough question.....if the Browns pass on either Wentz or Goff, should we jump on one of those and have him hold a clipboard under Joe a couple years, like Rodgers did for Favre? How often do you pick 6th? Pundits say Goff needs to develop, tons of upside.....Franchise Qb 2?

Contract wise, Flacco is locked in for the next 3 and likely 4 years. That's a long time to have a 1st round QB hold a clipboard. One of the great benefits of having a QB we trust for the coming years is to not be compelled to go QB early in the draft and allows us the opportunity to select a game changing play maker at any position of our choosing. 

If this rationale fit, then Dallas would pluck that 2nd QB and we'd have not shot at him anyway. I believe Romo is much closer to his eventual end than Flacco is. 

wouldnt mind drafting connor cook in the 4th if he lasts that long or another qb and than trade mallett after next season for a 3rd or 4th to a qb needy team

[RavensFanMania]

On 4/16/2016 at 11:04 AM, Daddyfatsacks said:

Please get Jaylon Smith in one of the later rounds

my gut is someone will draft him in he latter part of the 1st round. 

[RavensFanMania]

23 hours ago, Fastynart said:

This is a no brainer. You take the LT if he is there, period. Your quarterback is where your money it. If you don't protect his blind side, you are dead no matter how many defensive ends you have. If Flacco is left with that awful Monroe there, he is going to get creamed and the Ravens will go down with him.

When Monroe played he played pretty darn well.  Remember, Flacco didn't get injured because of Monroe, it was Hurst that was playing LT that game.  The issues I have with Monroe stem from his ability to get on the field and that he just doesn't like football very much, according to some rumors that came out last year. 

 

That being said, I believe Tunsil is the best player in the draft and if he is there, you have to take him.

Edited April 17, 2016 by RavensFanMania

[balfan23]

1 hour ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

I could see Cleveland taking Tunsil if their top choice at QB gets taken #1. Joe Thomas isn't getting any younger and they were entertaining trade offers for him. I guess it really depends how highly they have the top two QB's rated. I saw a Mock that has them taking Myles Jack #2. I can't really see that happening with his medical reports. Can you imagine if the Browns take Jack and that knee isn't up to snuff? They need their 1st pick to be a home run even more than the Ravens do so I expect them to go real safe if they don't gamble on a QB.

I don't know. Joe T is 31 ... so far from done and his contract was seriously front-loaded so that he is only hitting their cap at 10M per year for the next 3 years. That's peanuts for a franchise LT. Even with their "money ball" approach, that's a significant value, so I don't see Tunsil as their best choice. IMO, if they don't want the 2nd QB, they will be looking to trade to a team that does. To me, they need to address QB or, if they don't believe the answer at that position exists, then they need to increase their volume of picks, while retaining a top 10 pick in this years draft (which is attainable if they can work a trade with the Eagles.

If they don't want a QB and can't get a suitor or the price they want and pick at #2, I also disagree with Jeremiah's mock of Jack .. but I believe it is possible they could go Ramsey. CB/FS may not be the team's biggest need, but Ramsey could transform the Browns secondary and that's a good start toward their rebuilding process. It will clearly be disturbing for Ravens fans if that happens, but we still could be saved by the Eagles if they wish to jump over SF into the top 5 to get that 2nd QB. 

 

[dirtybird66]

BUCKNERS the man,RAMSEY also would give us two shutdown corners like SEATTLE.

[fluffy201]

If this was baseball Ozzie would be batting around .150 the last few years.The only thing he could screw this up now is trade down.

I would have been happy trading with the Ram's for just their two seconds and their 15. Can't believe they gave all those picks to the Titans........If I were a Titan fan Id be celebrating with joy lol

[fluffy201]

Hargreaves

We need a corner and the drop off at talent after Hargreaves is steep. I like Hargreaves, Tunsil, and Buckner and of course Ramsey, but I doubt he even makes it past the 4th pick and I don't see Tunsil lasting that far either......Jack has that knee injury, otherwise he'd be on the list.