[News] Late For Work 4/14: Should Ravens Show Interest In Pro Bowler Donte Whitner?

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Jimmy Smith and Eugene Monroe were not healthy at the start of the season. Smith tried to play through his injury and finally Monroe had to stop playing. Steve Smith also was playing with some back injuries before he tore his ACL. The secondary was all banged up as well as Webb wasn't 100% healthy. If you think this team was completely healthy at the start of the season you'd be wrong. Rick Wagner was also playing the whole season coming off of a lisfranc injury like Jimmy Smith's.

I mean, that's great and all, but they're still healthy enough to play.

This is the NFL... by week 4, there isn't a single player on the roster who is "fully healthy". When you put this in the context of the number of games key players missed in 2012, 2013, and 2014, 2015 was largely one of the healthier seasons we've had for about the first half of the season.

By NFL standards, guys who are out there playing every week are "healthy", because in all likelihood, that's about as healthy as it gets. 

For about half of the season last year, the overwhelming majority of our expected starting 22 guys on offense and defense were healthy enough to go out there and play weekly on Sunday, which at the very least, means they were better than their replacements, regardless of whether they were fully "healthy" or not. That team went 2-6 in the first half.

Make no mistake... getting healthy is only part of what is going to put this team back in contention, and I'd argue its one of the smaller parts. Significant personnel upgrades is what will put this team in a better position to win.

[WNC-Raven]

ALL teams have draft busts, The Ravens stand by their high draft picks and are patient enough to give them time to develop. Jimmy Smith anyone?

ALL teams lose star players either to old age or free agency, The Ravens navigate it so well that it often only takes 2 years to see many of those players fail at their new teams. Pretty impressive talent evaluation.

ALL teams overpay a few players that don't completely work out for them, The Ravens have so much success retaining impact players that stay healthy and viable that it completely overshadows the few that didn't.

[bioLarzen]

Proof #1 that mocks are never to be taken seriously - for other reasons than following trends: one deal, and the top third of the first round of EVERY SINGLE mock any "draftnik" has made so far the past months are obsolete...

[rmcjacket23]

11 minutes ago, bioLarzen said:

Proof #1 that mocks are never to be taken seriously - for other reasons than following trends: one deal, and the top third of the first round of EVERY SINGLE mock any "draftnik" has made so far the past months are obsolete...

I mean, that depends.

Right now, only thing that seems for certain is Tennessee is taking a QB. Outside of that, don't really know what has changed.

Cleveland could easily decide not to take a QB at this point, which means the top 3 could easily remain unchanged... just the team and order deviates.

Can easily see QB to Tennessee, Ramsey to Cleveland, and Tunsil to SD (or even vice versa there), and that's generally what everybody already expected the top three picks to be.

There's plenty of scenarios where this impacts us a ton, or doesn't impact our pick at all.

[Queen City Savior]

It really seems like 2 QBs will be picked in the top 5 now. It's assumed the Rams have traded up for Carson Wentz, but either way it has to be for one of the two QBs. The Browns should still go QB at 2, but even if they opt against that you have to imagine teams such as SF and Philly begin looking to trade up for the second QB.

Assuming 2 QBs are off the board by some means before the Ravens pick at 6, the pool of highly ranked prospects will yield better options. Suddenly of the top non-QB prospects (Tunsil, Ramsey, Jack, Bosa, Buckner) at least two would remain on the board and at this point any of them could be available depending on the scenario. Even going in order of what most consider the best prospects would still leave the Ravens with a choice between Bosa and Buckner.

This trade up by the Rams shakes up the top of the draft and it should be in the Ravens favor.

[bioLarzen]

So, now that the schedule is probably out today, here's my dream schedule:

W1 CLE - Easiest division game to start off with; the Browns are probably not yet polished, Hue Jackson can't yet feel his team perfectly; maybe a rookie QB.

W2 @ NE (MNF) - the pats often have a jetlag at the start of the season - best to get this game over with as soon as possible, when most of our players are still healthy... and we could even snatch a very valuable W in prime time.

W3 PIT - we usually rule the steelers in early season home games.

W4 @ CIN - another game we should have behind us as soon as possible. I'm so fed up with having to play the Bengals in Cincinatti the last week...

W5 MIA - one of the easier home games - if we win at CIN the previous week, good for staying hot; if we lose in CIN, this game's good to avoid losing streak.

W6 @ NYG - who nows how good the Giants ar gonna be... I figure this is go8ing to be one of the easier road games, so it's good to have it here, when the players are starting to fade almost half way into the season.

W7 PHI (SNF) - A good game to make prime time entertainment of...

W8 @ DAL - I figure Romo will be injured once again by this time, so this shouldn't be an unbreakable nut... provided half of our roster isn't already on the IR...

W9 BYE - a bye in the middle of the schedule is always the best!

W10 CIN (MNF) - We are usually quite strong coming off the BYE - so why not have what may be our hardest home game, here?

W11 @ JAX - I have a feeling the Jaguars aren't gonna be bad at all this season... This might be a tricky game.

W12 OAK - This, also, may be a trickier game than most would think...

W13 @ NYJ - the Jets tend to fade a little by the second half of the season

W14 WAS - One of the easier games, good to gain a little momentum for the final stretch.

W15 @ PIT (SNF) - This had to go somewhere... so why not here.

W16 BUF - The Bills may very well be out of the race by then, which is never a bad thing for an opponent... Also good for the regular season home final.

W17 @ CLE - Might be the easiest road game. s we're probably gonna play a division opponent in Week 17, why not the easiest?

 

Yep, this is more wishful thinking than reality... Two MNF games in back to back seasons... a home MNF game (haha...)... no multiple home or road game stretches...

 

But hey, there's a reason I find this "dream schedule", right?

 

[eze17]

While I think Whitner is a decent player, I really don't see us signing him. He would probably cost us 2-3 million, at a position that we have a lot of depth at... I think we will sign a veteran,irregardless of who we draft, at either ILB or CB, maybe both,more than likely after the June 1st cuts. Why spend money on someone unless he drastically improves the position, or adds needed depth, neither of which Whitner does, while LB & CB do need help?

and congratulations to Eugene Monroe, be good big daddy!

[sami]

  3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  3 hours ago, noleafclover613 said:

Even though it is off topic, thank you Rams for trading for the #1 pick. Our odds of grabbing one of the playmakers we want in the first round just increased significantly.

Perhaps.

May change nothing though, since Cleveland won't be getting Wentz and they may choose not to take a QB at #2. If they don't, and nobody else does, it changes basically nothing for the Ravens.

I think LA's going Goff - the home town kid - and the Browns still go Wentz... or now that the price to move up has been set I think either the Eagles or 49ers will be interested in moving up to 2 or 3 to grab the other QB. Either way, I think the odds have increased greatly of 2 QBs being taken before our pick.

I think youre right which could trigger a run on QBs.

[rmcjacket23]

12 minutes ago, bioLarzen said:

So, now that the schedule is probably out today, here's my dream schedule:

W1 CLE - Easiest division game to start off with; the Browns are probably not yet polished, Hue Jackson can't yet feel his team perfectly; maybe a rookie QB.

W2 @ NE (MNF) - the pats often have a jetlag at the start of the season - best to get this game over with as soon as possible, when most of our players are still healthy... and we could even snatch a very valuable W in prime time.

W3 PIT - we usually rule the steelers in early season home games.

W4 @ CIN - another game we should have behind us as soon as possible. I'm so fed up with having to play the Bengals in Cincinatti the last week...

W5 MIA - one of the easier home games - if we win at CIN the previous week, good for staying hot; if we lose in CIN, this game's good to avoid losing streak.

W6 @ NYG - who nows how good the Giants ar gonna be... I figure this is go8ing to be one of the easier road games, so it's good to have it here, when the players are starting to fade almost half way into the season.

W7 PHI (SNF) - A good game to make prime time entertainment of...

W8 @ DAL - I figure Romo will be injured once again by this time, so this shouldn't be an unbreakable nut... provided half of our roster isn't already on the IR...

W9 BYE - a bye in the middle of the schedule is always the best!

W10 CIN (MNF) - We are usually quite strong coming off the BYE - so why not have what may be our hardest home game, here?

W11 @ JAX - I have a feeling the Jaguars aren't gonna be bad at all this season... This might be a tricky game.

W12 OAK - This, also, may be a trickier game than most would think...

W13 @ NYJ - the Jets tend to fade a little by the second half of the season

W14 WAS - One of the easier games, good to gain a little momentum for the final stretch.

W15 @ PIT (SNF) - This had to go somewhere... so why not here.

W16 BUF - The Bills may very well be out of the race by then, which is never a bad thing for an opponent... Also good for the regular season home final.

W17 @ CLE - Might be the easiest road game. s we're probably gonna play a division opponent in Week 17, why not the easiest?

 

Yep, this is more wishful thinking than reality... Two MNF games in back to back seasons... a home MNF game (haha...)... no multiple home or road game stretches...

 

But hey, there's a reason I find this "dream schedule", right?

 

Yeah there's some logistical problems with this. 

I think based on the research I've done and based on how the NFL generally tries to avoid scheduling NFL and MLB games in the same city on the same day, it looks likely that we will get a week 1 home game followed by two road games in weeks 2 and 3.

I also think we will see a max of 3 primetime games, and I also would bet that only one of our Pittsburgh games will be in primetime. One of those games will likely be a Thursday night game also.

[The Greek]

wish we didnt have thursday games aside from thanksgiving. not enough time for players to rest and heal from the sunday games. goodell does not care about the players safety and the quality of the product. i doubt we get a sunday night game unless it is flexed which would mean we are having a good season :)

[The Greek]

congrats to the monroe family

[The Greek]

we should trade nick boyle to the rams for the rest of their draft picks since they are in a giving mood

[EdTheMythicalOne]

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean, that's great and all, but they're still healthy enough to play.

This is the NFL... by week 4, there isn't a single player on the roster who is "fully healthy". When you put this in the context of the number of games key players missed in 2012, 2013, and 2014, 2015 was largely one of the healthier seasons we've had for about the first half of the season.

By NFL standards, guys who are out there playing every week are "healthy", because in all likelihood, that's about as healthy as it gets. 

For about half of the season last year, the overwhelming majority of our expected starting 22 guys on offense and defense were healthy enough to go out there and play weekly on Sunday, which at the very least, means they were better than their replacements, regardless of whether they were fully "healthy" or not. That team went 2-6 in the first half.

Make no mistake... getting healthy is only part of what is going to put this team back in contention, and I'd argue its one of the smaller parts. Significant personnel upgrades is what will put this team in a better position to win.

You're missing the point entirely.

Jimmy Smith was probably at best 80% last season. You'd have to think once he's actually healthy again he'd improve his play. Webb was also continually banged up and is now moving to FS and away from CB and Shareece Wright didn't play until near the end of the season when the secondary improved and now he's coming back to potentially be a starter again. Steve Smith coming back and not dealing with micro fractures in his back and hopefully a fully healed ACL will make him better than he already was. Breshard Perriman is hopefully coming back and we didn't even have him on the field last season. I would think if Jimmy Smith is progressing in his healing from his lisfranc injury that Rick Wagner is in the same boat and should improve with a healthier foot. A healthy Eugene Monroe (hopefully) is better than one suffering from injuries and a back up.

This team also did upgrade. Weddle is now in the secondary and even if he's not quite as good as he once was, he's better than anyone else whose been out there. Watson gives us better depth at TE so that gives Gillmore a chance to heal up, Maxx Williams to bone up on the playbook, and Pitta a chance to resume playing. Wallace gives us an extra deep threat and insurance of at least having one if Perriman can't get on the field.

There is a solid core on this team that is still very good. Obviously hitting some home runs in the draft will improve this team, but the team was already pretty good to start with. Having guys back that were starters being healthy will make all the difference in the world. I don't know how anyone could argue that point.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

18 minutes ago, The Greek said:

we should trade nick boyle to the rams for the rest of their draft picks since they are in a giving mood

Ravens just dropped two TE's in Chase Ford and Harold Spears.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

37 minutes ago, The Greek said:

wish we didnt have thursday games aside from thanksgiving. not enough time for players to rest and heal from the sunday games. goodell does not care about the players safety and the quality of the product. i doubt we get a sunday night game unless it is flexed which would mean we are having a good season

I don't like Thursday night games either. All this hype about player safety and you continue to give players a short recovery time like this? The NFL should give teams that have a Thursday game a bye the week before and after it.

[rmcjacket23]

38 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

You're missing the point entirely.

Jimmy Smith was probably at best 80% last season. You'd have to think once he's actually healthy again he'd improve his play. Webb was also continually banged up and is now moving to FS and away from CB and Shareece Wright didn't play until near the end of the season when the secondary improved and now he's coming back to potentially be a starter again. Steve Smith coming back and not dealing with micro fractures in his back and hopefully a fully healed ACL will make him better than he already was. Breshard Perriman is hopefully coming back and we didn't even have him on the field last season. I would think if Jimmy Smith is progressing in his healing from his lisfranc injury that Rick Wagner is in the same boat and should improve with a healthier foot. A healthy Eugene Monroe (hopefully) is better than one suffering from injuries and a back up.

This team also did upgrade. Weddle is now in the secondary and even if he's not quite as good as he once was, he's better than anyone else whose been out there. Watson gives us better depth at TE so that gives Gillmore a chance to heal up, Maxx Williams to bone up on the playbook, and Pitta a chance to resume playing. Wallace gives us an extra deep threat and insurance of at least having one if Perriman can't get on the field.

There is a solid core on this team that is still very good. Obviously hitting some home runs in the draft will improve this team, but the team was already pretty good to start with. Having guys back that were starters being healthy will make all the difference in the world. I don't know how anyone could argue that point.

No I get the point.

My point is simple... we will never have a fully healthy team. Its borderline impossible in the NFL. Jimmy Smith gets back to 100%, and then Weddle tears an ACL. That's how things work. Injuries are frequent enough that they should be expected, both at key and non-key positions.

If we are evaluating a team based on how they would perform when they are perfectly healthy, then we aren't make a reasonable evaluation of a team by any stretch.

As for upgrades, we simply don't know. Much like 2013, we THINK we upgraded. If Wallace and Watson aren't that important to the offense, it won't surprise me one bit, because these aren't game changing-type players we are acquiring. And not to mention... we lost some players who were pretty good for us last season, some of which are at positions we have yet to or might not even upgrade.

One thing that all good football teams in the league have is depth. When they suffer significant injuries (and they all do), they have respectable players who can fill those roles.

In the last 2-3 years, one could argue that's been our biggest weakness... lack of depth. And I don't see where we've done enough "upgrading" in that area thus far (again pre-draft, which changes everything) to think this team is capable of taking a major leap forward into serious playoff contenders.

And ironically, some of the reasons you are arguing for us to be fully healthy (like Jimmy and Wagner coming back in year 2 from major injuries) are some of the same concerns we carry into this season.

Do we really know if Joe will be 100% this season? How about Steve Smith... still the de factor top WR on this team, aging and off an achilles tear? Crockett Gillmore is still hurt from last season and its April. Pitta may never play again. Perriman still hasn't played and isn't in football shape to play right now.

Same questions about injuries we had coming into 2015 can easily apply to 2016... only the names on the jerseys are different.

[eze17]

Actually, 35-1 odds to win the super bowl is pretty respectful from Vegas...I mean, we were 5-11 last season.

[bioLarzen]

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yeah there's some logistical problems with this. 

I think based on the research I've done and based on how the NFL generally tries to avoid scheduling NFL and MLB games in the same city on the same day, it looks likely that we will get a week 1 home game followed by two road games in weeks 2 and 3.

I also think we will see a max of 3 primetime games, and I also would bet that only one of our Pittsburgh games will be in primetime. One of those games will likely be a Thursday night game also.

Haha, I have the feeling there are way more problems with itr - but yeah, you're right: I totally neglected the MLB scheduling... 

[steelcityraven]

Yes... we should grab Donte Whitner if we can. Whitner and Weddle beside each other would assuredly put an end to out S problems. Whitner is solid... with a great attitude and would fit our defense well. That would also free us up to utilize Webb in the slot... and to add depth to both our CB and S positions! I really cannot think of a reason we shouldn't sign Whitner right now!

[bioLarzen]

Yes... we should grab Donte Whitner if we can. Whitner and Weddle beside each other would assuredly put an end to out S problems. Whitner is solid... with a great attitude and would fit our defense well. That would also free us up to utilize Webb in the slot... and to add depth to both our CB and S positions! I really cannot think of a reason we shouldn't sign Whitner right now!

Whitner plays exactly the kind of way Pollard did -which means he would probably draw even more flags now than Pollard did a few years back...
Not Pollard's/Whitner's fault, but the NFL's - still, a flag is a flag...

[eze17]

Yes... we should grab Donte Whitner if we can. Whitner and Weddle beside each other would assuredly put an end to out S problems. Whitner is solid... with a great attitude and would fit our defense well. That would also free us up to utilize Webb in the slot... and to add depth to both our CB and S positions! I really cannot think of a reason we shouldn't sign Whitner right now!

Ummm...maybe the 3 million it would cost to get him? The fact that we have a lot of depth at safety? That we could use that money to get a veteran LB or CB, which are more pressing needs? The fact that he's a big hitter, but not known for his coverage skills, which our secondary needs? I'm not bashing the guy, I just don't see where he fits in to our plans. If he came in at the veteran minimum, sure, give him a try. Otherwise spend our cash elsewhere...

[bioLarzen]

What I think we can take for granted about our schedule:

1.) A home start v. the Bengals or the steelers
2.) A Week#17 game @ CIN
3.) A road MNF game v a mid-tier or lesser team (my guess is the JAX game - maybe the Dallas one)
4.) A TNF game in the first couple of available weeks, v. a division opponent (my guess: our home Browns-game)

[Fastynart]

I don't understand why these writers think the Ravens have such a logjam at safety. They have bodies, true, but no playmakers. Kendrick Lewis was a disappointment. Elam just flat out stinks. Brooks has potential but has yet to show he can do the job. Levine may be the best of this rag tag bunch but he doesn't scare anyone. I like the idea of moving Webb to safety. They should have done that last year. Weddle is the real deal, but can't do it by himself. One of the others needs to step up and stay healthy.

[eze17]

What I think we can take for granted about our schedule:

1.) A home start v. the Bengals or the steelers
2.) A Week#17 game @ CIN
3.) A road MNF game v a mid-tier or lesser team (my guess is the JAX game - maybe the Dallas one)
4.) A TNF game in the first couple of available weeks, v. a division opponent (my guess: our home Browns-game)

You forgot a prime time game against the Steelers...Still the best rivalry in football, if not any sport. And the NFL knows it.

[WNC-Raven]

8 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I think LA's going Goff - the home town kid - and the Browns still go Wentz... or now that the price to move up has been set I think either the Eagles or 49ers will be interested in moving up to 2 or 3 to grab the other QB. Either way, I think the odds have increased greatly of 2 QBs being taken before our pick.

Maybe, it would make a good storyline. Seems to me that the only ones that care about a hometown boy are the fans of said hometown. let's hope you are correct though because wentz would be a good fit for the afcn. Not sure if Cleveland would take Goff and that would screw up our pick.

[billiejean]

Yes... we should grab Donte Whitner if we can. Whitner and Weddle beside each other would assuredly put an end to out S problems. Whitner is solid... with a great attitude and would fit our defense well. That would also free us up to utilize Webb in the slot... and to add depth to both our CB and S positions! I really cannot think of a reason we shouldn't sign Whitner right now!

Well one reason is that he's 30 years old. He is slow and is a huge liability in coverage. Paring him with Weddle would probably make them the oldest safety tandom in the league. At this point in their careers they are both best suited to play SS. And you don't want two SS on the back end. There is a reason no one has picked the guy up.

[Grapple Raven]

46 minutes ago, billiejean said:

Well one reason is that he's 30 years old. He is slow and is a huge liability in coverage. Paring him with Weddle would probably make them the oldest safety tandom in the league. At this point in their careers they are both best suited to play SS. And you don't want two SS on the back end. There is a reason no one has picked the guy up.

I think you might have undermined your reasoning referencing that Weddle/Whitner would be the oldest safety tandem in the league...Webb's birthday is October 12, 1985.

[billiejean]

40 minutes ago, Grapple Raven said:

I think you might have undermined your reasoning referencing that Weddle/Whitner would be the oldest safety tandem in the league...Webb's birthday is October 12, 1985.

That was hardly the argument that I am making (there probibly is a safety tandom that is older) that was just a bit hyperbole but was really not the point.  The argument is that Webb is the closest thing we have to FS.  Im sure Weddle could play FS too but at this point in his career he is more suited at SS.  Every other safety that we have is a SS (beside maybe Brooks).  Whitner would just be adding another one to the mix. He would be redundant.

Edited April 15, 2016 by billiejean

[Moderator 3]

19 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

What I think we can take for granted about our schedule:

1.) A home start v. the Bengals or the steelers
2.) A Week#17 game @ CIN
3.) A road MNF game v a mid-tier or lesser team (my guess is the JAX game - maybe the Dallas one)
4.) A TNF game in the first couple of available weeks, v. a division opponent (my guess: our home Browns-game)

Great job!  Do you also know tomorrow's Mega Millions number.

[verified]

We really should get donta whitner, with him we would have our new ed reed and bernard pollard combo back. Weddle the ball hawk and whitner the thumper, why are we passing this up because ozzie over paid webb and now that he cant play corner anymore we have to find a use for him. smh ridiculous