Bold Predictions for the Draft

[RaineV1]

32 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I could see the Browns trading back into the first and trying to grab Lynch/Cook

Yeah. The only late first round team I can see going QB is the Broncos, and it probably wouldn't take much to get the Panthers to move down a couple spots to get ahead of the Broncos.

[Winchester]

4 hours ago, ravensdan said:

What do you think of Ifedi as a Raven. He could play LG possibly this year. He's an impact at guard. And you don't use pick one in him. I think a developmental LT is taken somewhere to develop. Monroe is fine for now. If the top D guys are gone you take Zeke who makes the oline look better. Instantly. 

I really like Ifedi. He destroyed Sheldon Rankins who is a really good player. Not an elite lightest on his shoes guy but is plenty athletic and very strong with long arms and balance.  Trying to decide who I like better Ifedi or Coleman at tackle. I would prefer a good athlete at tackle with size power  over a very athletic tackle that can not control his guy with ease like Ifedis predecessors Ogbuhi. I like Ezekiel as the pick as long as ravens follow his pick witb an oline player with elite Guard power and Left tackle length and athleticism. I completely agree Ezekiel makes the line look better. Could be a 1000 yard receiver as well. modern day Roger craig with more speed and elusiveness. But next pick after him needs to be oline. Do not want his confidence torn over no fault of his own. Zeke  round1 then Ifedi/Coleman/Beavers or Decker round2 then trade back into round2 for Boyd will get my approval!! Or even Zeke, Michael Thomas then trade back into round2 for a tackle. I know where is the defense.lol But offense will be supreme and ball control and explosive simultaneously! ! Which will help the defense play fresh. If ravens could trade back and get Ezekiel while picking up an extra round2 pick the ravens could get Ezekiel a receiver a tackle and Cravens in rounds1-3. Or trade back into round2 p.

[usmccharles]

31 minutes ago, Winchester said:

I really like Ifedi. He destroyed Sheldon Rankins who is a really good player. Not an elite lightest on his shoes guy but is plenty athletic and very strong with long arms and balance.  Trying to decide who I like better Ifedi or Coleman at tackle. I would prefer a good athlete at tackle with size power  over a very athletic tackle that can not control his guy with ease like Ifedis predecessors Ogbuhi. I like Ezekiel as the pick as long as ravens follow his pick witb an oline player with elite Guard power and Left tackle length and athleticism. I completely agree Ezekiel makes the line look better. Could be a 1000 yard receiver as well. modern day Roger craig with more speed and elusiveness. But next pick after him needs to be oline. Do not want his confidence torn over no fault of his own. Zeke  round1 then Ifedi/Coleman/Beavers or Decker round2 then trade back into round2 for Boyd will get my approval!! Or even Zeke, Michael Thomas then trade back into round2 for a tackle. I know where is the defense.lol But offense will be supreme and ball control and explosive simultaneously! ! Which will help the defense play fresh. If ravens could trade back and get Ezekiel while picking up an extra round2 pick the ravens could get Ezekiel a receiver a tackle and Cravens in rounds1-3. Or trade back into round2 p.

Im starting to get aboard the Zeke idea, not as my first pick or second, but he could be a huge difference maker.  The only problem I have with what you suggested is ignoring defense for the first two rounds, We desperately need a pass-rusher to play the rotational role, I like ZDS but hes still raw.  I am afraid if we wait till the 3rd to go pass rusher, we wont have many options.  I like Yannick Ngakoue but not sure how much of a difference he could make.  But I do like your idea of grabbing Cravens.  Cravens and Yannick are two guys I would love to have here. 

[Winchester]

17 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Im starting to get aboard the Zeke idea, not as my first pick or second, but he could be a huge difference maker.  The only problem I have with what you suggested is ignoring defense for the first two rounds, We desperately need a pass-rusher to play the rotational role, I like ZDS but hes still raw.  I am afraid if we wait till the 3rd to go pass rusher, we wont have many options.  I like Yannick Ngakoue but not sure how much of a difference he could make.  But I do like your idea of grabbing Cravens.  Cravens and Yannick are two guys I would love to have here. 

Yannick Ngakoue will be a better pro than Buckner!! Ravens should target him!! Only prob is he Will not be a round3  steal cuz this draft is so pathetic at edge rushers!! Last year he would be a round3 steal!! One of my fav players in this draft!! He is right there with Spence. If ravens would of traded Dumervil last year when team began 1-4 coming off 17 sacks for a round3 pick management could use it and trade up a little to get Ngakoue who is like a younger Dumervil. I like Cravens as well a lot and think he will be a very good fast instinctive ilb!!

[usmccharles]

25 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Yannick Ngakoue will be a better pro than Buckner!! Ravens should target him!! Only prob is he Will not be a round3  steal cuz this draft is so pathetic at edge rushers!! Last year he would be a round3 steal!! One of my fav players in this draft!! He is right there with Spence. If ravens would of traded Dumervil last year when team began 1-4 coming off 17 sacks for a round3 pick management could use it and trade up a little to get Ngakoue who is like a younger Dumervil. I like Cravens as well a lot and think he will be a very good fast instinctive ilb!!

I still disagree on trading Doom but we've been through that.  But like you said with this being such a weak class in edge rushers, I wouldn't want to get our first one after the 2nd.  Yannick does remind me of Doom, but I don't know if Id be willing to bet on him to be the difference maker we need. 

[usmccharles]

2 minutes ago, beanfigger said:

I'm praying the Cowboys take Elliot at four so we don't even have to think about it. We need to go another way. I like Elliot and think he'll do well, but I don't see that translating into wins. The best RB in the league has one career playoff victory in nine seasons.

Yea but I think that comparison is a little skewed, I believe our overall team is much better than the Vikings (I think that's who you are referring to).  One player doesn't determine playoff wins, but a well rounded team, I know you know this...just venting. 

[beanfigger]

11 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Yea but I think that comparison is a little skewed, I believe our overall team is much better than the Vikings (I think that's who you are referring to).  One player doesn't determine playoff wins, but a well rounded team, I know you know this...just venting. 

 

Weird that you only saw the last bit of my post. That was addressed. Here was the rest:

Considering 10-11 of the 12 playoff teams last year made it without relying on a solitary number one back the whole season, I still don't see much upside to drafting a running back so early in today's league. Only one team made the playoffs with a 1000-TD back last year, and that accomplishment isn't even that impressive a benchmark anymore.

 

The only way I take Elliot is if I really feel that last year was a fluke and the team is in really good shape overall already. I can see the argument there, but I'm not sure it's the case. Trench play and passing game (offense and defense) is where you win today. That's where you start when you need to turn things around.

Edited April 13, 2016 by beanfigger

[usmccharles]

1 minute ago, beanfigger said:

 

Weird that you only saw the lay bit of my post  that was addressed  here was the rest:

Considering 10-11 of the 12 playoff teams last year made it without relying on a solitary number one back the whole season, I still don't see much upside to drafting a running back so early in today's league. Only one team made the playoffs with a 1000-TD back last year, and that accomplishment isn't even that impressive a benchmark anymore.

 

The only way I take Elliot is if I really feel that last year was a fluke and the team is in really good shape overall already. I can see the argument there, but I'm not sure it's the case. Trench play and passing game (offense and defense) is where you win today. That's where you start when you need to turn things around.

I saw the whole thing, I was just addressing the fact that I wouldn't use the comparison of AP having one win in the playoffs since its a team based achievement.  If we had AP, I  bet he would have a lot more than one playoff win because of who else is on the team, that was my point.  But I agree with your premise and am not advocating to draft Elliot. 

[ALI624]

Buckner not attending the draft means we are not picking him.

[harfordravenfan]

7 minutes ago, ALI624 said:

Buckner not attending the draft means we are not picking him.

I never knew it worked that way, thanks for the heads up 

[JoeyFlex5]

Who would be okay with giving a first next year and our 3rd to trade up for tunsil? It's not a bold prediction but a bold move that is be ok with... I guess that goes in this thread?

[Clmraven]

2 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Who would be okay with giving a first next year and our 3rd to trade up for tunsil? It's not a bold prediction but a bold move that is be ok with... I guess that goes in this thread?

I couldn't give up a first for a LT. I would only ever give up a first for a QB, a LT alone won't win you a Super Bowl like an elite QB can.

[GrimCoconut]

33 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Who would be okay with giving a first next year and our 3rd to trade up for tunsil? It's not a bold prediction but a bold move that is be ok with... I guess that goes in this thread?

 

27 minutes ago, Clmraven said:

I couldn't give up a first for a LT. I would only ever give up a first for a QB, a LT alone won't win you a Super Bowl like an elite QB can.

I think Ozzie said the same thing, that they would only ever give up a future 1st for a QB and we have that guy now and we don't really want to give up a future 1st round pick at all after how it worked out for us last time.

[JoeyFlex5]

4 hours ago, Winchester said:

Yannick Ngakoue will be a better pro than Buckner!! Ravens should target him!! Only prob is he Will not be a round3  steal cuz this draft is so pathetic at edge rushers!! Last year he would be a round3 steal!! One of my fav players in this draft!! He is right there with Spence. If ravens would of traded Dumervil last year when team began 1-4 coming off 17 sacks for a round3 pick management could use it and trade up a little to get Ngakoue who is like a younger Dumervil. I like Cravens as well a lot and think he will be a very good fast instinctive ilb!!

His vision and anticipation worries me. At times He looks like a dominant speed rusher and at other times he looks like he's playing his first snap ever. Idk about ngakoue man I wanna like him and I did at first but more film study has me worried about him. He makes some real head scratching decisions At times.

[JoeyFlex5]

A LT alone won't win a super bowl but having a franchise qb with no LT and a solid young foundation, and a front office who often finds starters in rounds 2 and 4, I think an elite LT could put us over the top. the thing that would make me pause is the thought that we may need more than one year to get back on track so our first round pick could be relatively high next year, but if this was a year where everything was looking good and we had a healthy qb and didn't have question marks at wr and cb and pass rusher then I'd pound the table for it. It's probably not the smartest move but if we were to do it and then we have a deep playoff run and end up picking around 28 or so then it would look brilliant.

[Clmraven]

30 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

A LT alone won't win a super bowl but having a franchise qb with no LT and a solid young foundation, and a front office who often finds starters in rounds 2 and 4, I think an elite LT could put us over the top. the thing that would make me pause is the thought that we may need more than one year to get back on track so our first round pick could be relatively high next year, but if this was a year where everything was looking good and we had a healthy qb and didn't have question marks at wr and cb and pass rusher then I'd pound the table for it. It's probably not the smartest move but if we were to do it and then we have a deep playoff run and end up picking around 28 or so then it would look brilliant.

I'm just in the mindset that there's no non QB player that will make a huge difference in a 4 win season and a 12 win season. I don't see the point of giving up a first for an elite LT when we could stay at 6 and grab an elite defensive guy, which IMO could have a bigger impact, I truly hate to point to previous SB teams as a way to build a team but if the panthers had Tunsil during the SB how much would it really help them? Yeah it'd definitely help a bit but you can still move Miller or Ware to the other side and Cam would still be destroyed.

[Dubs]

9 minutes ago, Clmraven said:

I'm just in the mindset that there's no non QB player that will make a huge difference in a 4 win season and a 12 win season. I don't see the point of giving up a first for an elite LT when we could stay at 6 and grab an elite defensive guy, which IMO could have a bigger impact, I truly hate to point to previous SB teams as a way to build a team but if the panthers had Tunsil during the SB how much would it really help them? Yeah it'd definitely help a bit but you can still move Miller or Ware to the other side and Cam would still be destroyed.

 

I like Ronnie Stanley quite a bit.. I will say I do not think we win the SB without Bryant McKinney playing the way he did down the stretch. He really turned it on in the same way Joe did and I think there is some underestimation on how much impact an elite OL can have. When Joe is given time I feel his game steps up several levels....there are some QBs who work fine with less time in the pocket like Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers (Andy Dalton gets it out pretty quick too, even with his solid OL) and the difference between a great OL and an average OL for them is negligible...but guys like Joe Flacco and Eli Manning have a very different dependency on the OL for their productivity, and much of it can be scheme which can be changed but I do not want us to have Joe throwing everything under ten yards and three step drops--it is not his skill set that makes him special..very similar to Eli in that sense but Eli seems to take even bigger steps back with a bad OL as he loves to throw off his back foot with pressure, Joe usually tends to step into it and get nailed...

[Clmraven]

1 minute ago, Dubs said:

 

I like Ronnie Stanley quite a bit.. I will say I do not think we win the SB without Bryant McKinney playing the way he did down the stretch. He really turned it on in the same way Joe did and I think there is some underestimation on how much impact an elite OL can have. When Joe is given time I feel his game steps up several levels....there are some QBs who work fine with less time in the pocket like Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers (Andy Dalton gets it out pretty quick too, even with his solid OL) and the difference between a great OL and an average OL for them is negligible...but guys like Joe Flacco and Eli Manning have a very different dependency on the OL for their productivity, and much of it can be scheme which can be changed but I do not want us to have Joe throwing everything under ten yards and three step drops--it is not his skill set that makes him special..very similar to Eli in that sense but Eli seems to take even bigger steps back with a bad OL as he loves to throw off his back foot with pressure, Joe usually tends to step into it and get nailed...

But do you see Stanley being worth taking at 6 if one or more of the top defensive guys are there? I cant deny Joe is better when he has a good O-line, but I like we were at on offense for the most part, I'm ready to give Monroe one more chance and maybe grab a better back up LT in the 3rd or 4th. I just can't wrap my head around neglecting the defense again.

[Dubs]

31 minutes ago, Clmraven said:

But do you see Stanley being worth taking at 6 if one or more of the top defensive guys are there? I cant deny Joe is better when he has a good O-line, but I like we were at on offense for the most part, I'm ready to give Monroe one more chance and maybe grab a better back up LT in the 3rd or 4th. I just can't wrap my head around neglecting the defense again.

I have a hard time also saying we do not need defense and I do hope/expect that of our 2nd, 3rd and 3 4th rounders that 5 of those 6 will/should be D. I do hope that D is the best value at 6. As you asked though, yes I do see Stanley being worth the 6th pick. I would actually take him before Buckner--I really do question his upright style and if he has a strong enough base to occupy his gap, plus he is on the ground way too much for me, I do absolutely love his swim move though and it is a thing of beauty and there is a lot of talent to be played with. If we are in a scenario of Ramsey, Jack, Bosa, Went and Tunsil gone and we are deciding between guys like Ronnie Stanley, VHIII, and Buckner my pick is between Stanley and VHII and at this point I have yet to decide

[Winchester]

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

His vision and anticipation worries me. At times He looks like a dominant speed rusher and at other times he looks like he's playing his first snap ever. Idk about ngakoue man I wanna like him and I did at first but more film study has me worried about him. He makes some real head scratching decisions At times.

Pro coaching will smooth over the rough edges. His raw edge rush skills are right there with Spence. There's things I saw in him and I know for sure he is going to be very good to dominant!! 

[Winchester]

1 hour ago, Dubs said:

 

I like Ronnie Stanley quite a bit.. I will say I do not think we win the SB without Bryant McKinney playing the way he did down the stretch. He really turned it on in the same way Joe did and I think there is some underestimation on how much impact an elite OL can have. When Joe is given time I feel his game steps up several levels....there are some QBs who work fine with less time in the pocket like Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers (Andy Dalton gets it out pretty quick too, even with his solid OL) and the difference between a great OL and an average OL for them is negligible...but guys like Joe Flacco and Eli Manning have a very different dependency on the OL for their productivity, and much of it can be scheme which can be changed but I do not want us to have Joe throwing everything under ten yards and three step drops--it is not his skill set that makes him special..very similar to Eli in that sense but Eli seems to take even bigger steps back with a bad OL as he loves to throw off his back foot with pressure, Joe usually tends to step into it and get nailed...

Excellent post!! When he has time Joe Cool is as good as any any qb in football. But he is not Brady or Rodgers who think very fast and get their throw out lightning fast. Even then terrible oline play did not allow Rodgers receivers to work open. And it hurt Rodgers who gets his throws out faster than Joe can. Peeps tend to forget how dominant the oline played at the superbowl run!!  It allowed receivers like jacoby to play beyond their means. I was flamed by ravens fans friends alike when I said jacoby played a great run but he will be a below average receiver for most part. Anyways Joe Cool is a top6 qb with an elite oline. And in my opinion that helps the team overall more than any one defensive player will in this draft. If ravens really believe a round2 tackle like Ifedi Coleman or Beavers will be a very good left tackle then that is cool. However Ron Stanley has demonstrated rare tools and upside to make the oline great thus making Joe cool great. If and when Monroe and Hurst are terrible Joe could be in for a long season. If Joe plays terrible fans will begin to call for Ryan Mallet to play. And do Joe Cool fans want that?? A dominant oline makes receivers better as well giving them time to work open. In my opinion Joe Cool playing like a top qb helps the ravens win more games than any one defensive player drafted at 6. Because pieces are in place to take advantage of an elite oline. It benefits Joe Cool.

[Winchester]

2 hours ago, Clmraven said:

But do you see Stanley being worth taking at 6 if one or more of the top defensive guys are there? I cant deny Joe is better when he has a good O-line, but I like we were at on offense for the most part, I'm ready to give Monroe one more chance and maybe grab a better back up LT in the 3rd or 4th. I just can't wrap my head around neglecting the defense again.

Neglecting the defense again?? Ravens draft defense far more often than offense!! It is not Joe cools fault Brown Elam and Davis busted. And jernigan has not been consistent enough made the leap pro bowl caliber yet. And CJ Mosley regressed. That is not ignoring the defense. The ravens do not have To win ugly games with defense now. It has Joe Cools arm. The best way to win more games with one pick is give Joe Cool an elite left tackle to complete a very good to dominant oline!! Which helps sustain drives with blend of run and throw. and keeps the defense. The ravens can get Cravens and Ngakoue in round 2. Or even trade up for Spence or Nkemdiche. Ron Stanley will not mean neglect defense. A round3-4 tackle will likely end up your starter with Monroe's attention elsewhere not to mention his injuries!! Then the ravens are back on that ride again. Giving Monroe one more chance?? That is your left tackle!! Not a fullback and block occupying defensive tackle. Joe is a qb that gets far better when protected. 

[Clmraven]

2 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Neglecting the defense again?? Ravens draft defense far more often than offense!! It is not Joe cools fault Brown Elam and Davis busted. And jernigan has not been consistent enough made the leap pro bowl caliber yet. And CJ Mosley regressed. That is not ignoring the defense. The ravens do not have To win ugly games with defense now. It has Joe Cools arm. The best way to win more games with one pick is give Joe Cool an elite left tackle to complete a very good to dominant oline!! Which helps sustain drives with blend of run and throw. and keeps the defense. The ravens can get Cravens and Ngakoue in round 2. Or even trade up for Spence or Nkemdiche. Ron Stanley will not mean neglect defense. A round3-4 tackle will likely end up your starter with Monroe's attention elsewhere not to mention his injuries!! Then the ravens are back on that ride again. Giving Monroe one more chance?? That is your left tackle!! Not a fullback and block occupying defensive tackle. Joe is a qb that gets far better when protected. 

So you don't think we've neglected the defense?, it was probably a poor choice of words on my part but we've definitely neglected the CB position, and failed to develop almost anyone in the secondary. I still think our offense is in a way better place than our defense, while its nice to have a elite pass protector with Stanley, we run an offense that tends to get the ball out quick so that diminishes the value a bit, that's why I think we can afford to grab someone later and give them the chance to backup Monroe.

[Tyler.H]

If Derrick Henry is available in the 2nd round would we pick him up??

[GrimCoconut]

1 hour ago, Clmraven said:

So you don't think we've neglected the defense?, it was probably a poor choice of words on my part but we've definitely neglected the CB position, and failed to develop almost anyone in the secondary. I still think our offense is in a way better place than our defense, while its nice to have a elite pass protector with Stanley, we run an offense that tends to get the ball out quick so that diminishes the value a bit, that's why I think we can afford to grab someone later and give them the chance to backup Monroe.

We have certainly neglected the offense much more than the defense. That said, the picks invested into the defense just haven't panned out as much as I am sure we hoped they would--especially the high ones, such as 2012 Upshaw (I am sure we wanted/hoped he would become a complete pass rusher), 2013 in Brown & Elam, even 2014 in Brooks. That said, we need help more on defense than offense at this time, but Winchester does have a point that it may be better to make a dominant offense rather than try to get close to being a dominant defense since we appear to be closer to the former than the latter at this time.

It's a tough choice since Baltimore is known for its defense, too. We have certainly neglected the CB position, though, and there's no denying that.

[BaltiMOREravens25]

I say we trade Flacco for a Mariota

[Maryland]

6 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Who would be okay with giving a first next year and our 3rd to trade up for tunsil? It's not a bold prediction but a bold move that is be ok with... I guess that goes in this thread?

I would be okay with it simply because Tunsil will be a perennial pro-bowler at LT imo, and getting a pro-bowl LT on a rookie deal for 5 years would be great cap value. 

It would not be the flashy impact player people want, but it would shore-up your LT position for several years. You wouldn't have to worry about Joe's blindside anymore, which is crucial for a pocket-passer with a tender knee. 

Plus, if we just play to our normal standards, that 2017 1st rounder will be in the 30s anyway  

[KBoum]

I really don't like giving up next draft draft picks. We never know what can happen. Maybe 3-4 starts get injured in Training Camp. Maybe lots of injuries so that pick might be very good. I hope not but the RG3 trade made me hesitant to trade futur picks.

 

I'm a big fan of the trade back and collect picks. I mean I don't know what the % of the picks become starter but the more you have the better. I still havent watched enough tapes of next year draft but is there a Tunsil next year ? Who are the Tackles next season ?

[Tyler.H]

i hope we get Buckner.. if we trade back with the rams or falcons who would we get? Leonard Flloyd? Reggie Ragland?..

[usmccharles]

Like someone stated, no way would i give up a future first unless it was for a franchise QB. Imagine if we did that, got plagued with injuries again next year and was picking in the top ten again.....i would be livid.  I would much rather take Stanley at 6 than trade for Tunsil, i think the difference in talent is overblown, Tunsil is more pro-ready...but i dont think its a night and day difference

8 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

His vision and anticipation worries me. At times He looks like a dominant speed rusher and at other times he looks like he's playing his first snap ever. Idk about ngakoue man I wanna like him and I did at first but more film study has me worried about him. He makes some real head scratching decisions At times.

I can see your points, but i think with our coaching he could become what we would want.  Thats basically the point with players in mid rounds, you see the potential, you just need someone to coach them up. 

3 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

We have certainly neglected the offense much more than the defense. That said, the picks invested into the defense just haven't panned out as much as I am sure we hoped they would--especially the high ones, such as 2012 Upshaw (I am sure we wanted/hoped he would become a complete pass rusher), 2013 in Brown & Elam, even 2014 in Brooks. That said, we need help more on defense than offense at this time, but Winchester does have a point that it may be better to make a dominant offense rather than try to get close to being a dominant defense since we appear to be closer to the former than the latter at this time.

It's a tough choice since Baltimore is known for its defense, too. We have certainly neglected the CB position, though, and there's no denying that.

I agree with this.  Our offense is in much better shape than our defense.  If we need to put up 30 points i think we can far much easier than holding a team to 15 points.  The offense was put in terrible positions last year, going down and scoring...then the defense giving up a huge play right away and we already have the ball back.  Didnt Amari Cooper score a 70 yard TD within 5 minutes of the game?