2016 Baltimore Orioles

[rmw10]

4 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I would have much rather gone with Ubaldo because he'd been extremely solid for the entire post All Star break. This wasn't like he'd had a bad game here and there. No, he was pretty much dominant for the entire second half of the season. His final 15 game ERA was like 2.82 and he'd pitched a sub 2.00 ERA in his final seven, I believe. It's really hard to bet against that type of success because what we routinely see in his career is he gets on extended runs and this was one of them.

With Tillman, I think he gets an overinflated sense of value because of his win numbers, but this year and last year, he'd been averaging under six innings pitched. He just wasn't a workhorse. You probably weren't gonna get very far with him, which meant turning to your bullpen way earlier. At least Ubaldo had shown a lot of endurance and durability in the final months.

That's the main reason I was okay with it, because he's still solid in those shorter games.  His pitch count is a definite issue, but I'm okay with going to the bullpen in a game like this.  I'll take 5 innings of 2 run ball in a playoff game.

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, rmw10 said:

That's the main reason I was okay with it, because he's still solid in those shorter games.  His pitch count is a definite issue, but I'm okay with going to the bullpen in a game like this.  I'll take 5 innings of 2 run ball in a playoff game.

Could have very well been worse if Buck hadn't pulled the plug when he did. Very fortunate that Givens came on so strong.

[rmw10]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

Could have very well been worse if Buck hadn't pulled the plug when he did. Very fortunate that Givens came on so strong.

I just felt a lot more confident in Tillman giving a decent start.  Ubaldo always carries that risk of a shutout or a complete stinker.  That's why I thought Tillman was the right decision.  I can only imagine the uproar had Ubaldo gone out and given up 5 runs in an inning.

[Tank 92]

31 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I just felt a lot more confident in Tillman giving a decent start.  Ubaldo always carries that risk of a shutout or a complete stinker.  That's why I thought Tillman was the right decision.  I can only imagine the uproar had Ubaldo gone out and given up 5 runs in an inning.

Ubaldo hadn't pitched a "stinker" in two months. There was much less risk of a bad outing with him than Tillman.

Not trying t be smart aleck, but did you even watch Baldy pitch the past few weeks? He was close to unhittable at times.

[rmw10]

21 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

Ubaldo hadn't pitched a "stinker" in two months. There was much less risk of a bad outing with him than Tillman.

Not trying t be smart aleck,  but did you even watch Baldy pitch the past few weeks? He was close to unhittable at times.

Yes, but that doesn't mean the risk isn't present.  Just because he's been good lately doesn't mean he won't revert back.  We've seen plenty of that in his time here.  There's risk either way, but if I'm given the choice, I've giving the ball to the guy who's been my ace for multiple years now.  I wouldn't have faulted Buck with either decision, but I still maintain that Tillman was the right choice.

[Tank 92]

4 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Yes, but that doesn't mean the risk isn't present.  Just because he's been good lately doesn't mean he won't revert back.  We've seen plenty of that in his time here.  There's risk either way, but if I'm given the choice, I've giving the ball to the guy who's been my ace for multiple years now.  I wouldn't have faulted Buck with either decision, but I still maintain that Tillman was the right choice.

I'm not going to lie saying I can remember all his stats or time here, but I'm pretty confident he NEVER had stretch while with us like he had August/September.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-orioles-jimenez-0909-20160908-story.html

http://thebaltimorewire.com/2016/09/06/baltimore-orioles-could-ubaldo-jimenez-be-the-savior/

 

[BmoreBird22]

42 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I just felt a lot more confident in Tillman giving a decent start.  Ubaldo always carries that risk of a shutout or a complete stinker.  That's why I thought Tillman was the right decision.  I can only imagine the uproar had Ubaldo gone out and given up 5 runs in an inning.

I just think you stick with the hot hand, especially when Tillman is so awful in Toronto historically.

[BmoreBird22]

26 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Yes, but that doesn't mean the risk isn't present.  Just because he's been good lately doesn't mean he won't revert back.  We've seen plenty of that in his time here.  There's risk either way, but if I'm given the choice, I've giving the ball to the guy who's been my ace for multiple years now.  I wouldn't have faulted Buck with either decision, but I still maintain that Tillman was the right choice.

It's pretty sad when we can call Tillman an "ace".

[jimmypowder]

Buck's decision to not use Britton and load the bases will go down in infamy as possibly the worst managerial decision

in Major League Baseball playoff history. He's a pretty good manager but I have no idea what he was thinking. 

He may get fired over this. 

The colossal, inexplicable mistake of Buck Showalter

[rmw10]

24 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

It's pretty sad when we can call Tillman an "ace".

Well yeah lol.  Ace by Oriole standards.

[Moderator 3]

	Roch Kubatko (@masnRoch)
10/5/16, 2:57 PM For the "Buck must be fired" crowd, not happening. Signed through 2018 and, I'm told again, not going anywhere as long as he wants to stay.

 

[BmoreBird22]

10 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

	Roch Kubatko (@masnRoch)
10/5/16, 2:57 PM For the "Buck must be fired" crowd, not happening. Signed through 2018 and, I'm told again, not going anywhere as long as he wants to stay.

 

I wouldn't expect him to go because he's really turned the team around, but that mistake was unexcusable.

[Tornado700]

18 hours ago, Cillmatic said:

After what the O's just did I'm not sure if I want to watch sports ever again.

Did anyone see the O's celebrating in the clubhouse after they found out that they would go to Toronto to play for a wild card spot. They were partying like it was 1999. That's when I knew that they would lose. Act like you've been there, man. Anyway, back to the Ravens. Carry on.

[Cville-Raven]

31 minutes ago, Tornado700 said:

Did anyone see the O's celebrating in the clubhouse after they found out that they would go to Toronto to play for a wild card spot. They were partying like it was 1999. That's when I knew that they would lose. Act like you've been there, man. Anyway, back to the Ravens. Carry on.

You do realize that every team who gets in the playoffs does this...like every year...

[52520Andrew]

14 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I would actually liken the Ubaldo-Tillman match up decision more to Doug Baldwin over the second half last year (that's pretty much what he was) or do you start AJ Green (even though Tillman isn't in that ace status). Do you ride the hot hand or do you ride the one who consistently produces and isn't elite? I am riding the hot hand 100% of the time, especially when I believe the hot hand is actually the one pitching the best out of everyone (minus the closer). 

It's not just about the post second half ERA's or WHIP's (although, Baldy does this every single year pretty much; he gets vastly better in the second half). It's also that Tillman does not have a good history in Roger's Center. This isn't a one year thing, either. In his three year span (2014-2016) he owns a 9.99 ERA, five innings pitched on average, and something like a 1.5 WHIP in Toronto. He just struggles up there. So, we have a pitcher who progressively got worse over the second half of the season AND struggles historically against his potential opponent vs a pitcher who lit it up over the second half of the season (15+ starts, so we know it isn't a fluke) and was especially good over his final seven to close out the season, yet we go with the one that's in a slump.

Also, warming up in the bullpen is hardly any where near facing a live batter. They're probably throwing like 60 MPH and just throwing, not really trying to place the ball or throw a wide variety of pitches. They're just getting the ball back and throwing again. Not really too much to it. Going into that portion of the line up (I believe all righty's, too), I'm really not sure why Buck didn't go with Britton. It's the most powerful portion of the lineup and they would have had match up difficulties, in theory, with Britton.

I can't really say much for the bats because they went 0-16 after Machado's single in the sixth. I think I have said this many times, but I hate how a team like the Red Sox seem to understand you can hit for power AND contact. It makes me jealous when I see someone like Trout with an absurd .450 OBP. Orioles hitters are the most impatient ones in the league. They don't take balls, they swing for the fences every single time, and they just take what's given without making a pitcher work. Also, they really aren't getting good contact always when they are getting ball on bat. It'd be nice to see their hard contact go up. 

I was really excited to see Stroman was pitching because Liriano is a lefty and had been much more consistent this season and much better against the Orioles in general, so I figured this would be a great match up. Of course, that didn't happen.

I think a lot of things went wrong for this game, but there was definitely no bigger blunder than not putting Britton out there.

Nah, Ubaldo is too hit an miss for me to go with a guy like Baldwin. Wallace or Desean Jackson fits the bill well. Feast or famine. Might have a hot streak but that stinker is always right around the corner.

Aside from fantasy football, he is just too inconsistent for me and he has had plenty of dud outings. Tillman has at least been fairly consistent and even if he has struggled recently, he has gotten at least a couple innings while doing well. A lot of people were saying he was an ace this year, these are games you use your ace. Plus he just had 1 earned run in his previous start which was against Toronto. Ubaldo has done well this last 2 starts against Toronto but the two before that were among his most ugly of the season which is saying something.  

People looking into the pitching too much with this IMO, they did their jobs. Any game this season where they give up 2 runs we would have taken in a heart beat. I agree on being jealous of Boston, their batting averages are crazy good and they are always a threat to go deep as well. You could say that we are like an offense with a great deep passing attack but the run game isn't very good and we always have to get yards in big chunks. 

 

 

Changing gears, things I would like to see this offseason. I would love to see us get a bat who can hit for contact assuming Trumbo goes. We still would have Machado, Davis(please learn to hit left this offseason), Jones and Schoop so the power would not be lacking. If they played at a corner outfield slot that would be even better. Speed on top of that would be really nice. Maybe Rickard makes a jump for us. A decent starting pitcher would be nice too but we already have money invested in Ubaldo and Gallardo so I am not holding my breath. We have Miley for next year as well. Hopefully what we have seen from Tillman, Gausman, and Bundy carries over into next year and Bundy makes the jump to a full time starter. I feel more confident in the starters next year as opposed to this year at least. With our pen, the pitching could be pretty good overall. A couple guys I wouldn't mind bringing back would be Alvarez and Pearce. Pearce for fairly obvious reasons but I think Alvarez could do well in the DH role and make up for the lack of HR from Trumbo going if given a bigger role as a DH. As for Catcher, I think Weiters is out of here but I am hoping our top prospect in Chance Sisco can come in and do well. Not the best defender and power while shown in flashes is not overly impressive. Can hit for average however though and we really need that. Maybe bring someone in if we don't like him or don't think Joseph can step in. We gotta get some stuff right but we have some interesting tools going into next year. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by 52520Andrew

[52520Andrew]

7 hours ago, jimmypowder said:

Buck's decision to not use Britton and load the bases will go down in infamy as possibly the worst managerial decision

in Major League Baseball playoff history. He's a pretty good manager but I have no idea what he was thinking. 

He may get fired over this. 

The colossal, inexplicable mistake of Buck Showalter

It is a wild card game, if our bats couldn't get a hit after the 6th inning we weren't going to go very far anyways. 

[Cville-Raven]

1 hour ago, 52520Andrew said:

It is a wild card game, if our bats couldn't get a hit after the 6th inning we weren't going to go very far anyways. 

This is how I feel about it. That game could have gone to 20 innings and we still would have lost. Infield ground balls and strikeouts aren't going to win you games.

[OriolesMagicPlease]

I still don't have a problem with Tillman starting this game. I think Buck is a great manager, but what killed me is not putting Britton in once Ubaldo gave up the two hits. Totally stupid and I do think he was "saving" him for when we got a lead. That doesn't work when it is a one game playoff. Don't get me started on Reimhold either. His defense made a huge difference that inning.

At the end of the day though, it was our totally undisciplined bats that did us in. How many struck out swinging at a stupid ball in the dirt? When you have the leaders on this team doing that on a regular basis (yes I'm looking at you Adam!), you are not going anywhere in the playoffs. I'm totally crushed we didn't make it farther but at least we had a chance.

[Cville-Raven]

46 minutes ago, OriolesMagicPlease said:

I still don't have a problem with Tillman starting this game. I think Buck is a great manager, but what killed me is not putting Britton in once Ubaldo gave up the two hits. Totally stupid and I do think he was "saving" him for when we got a lead. That doesn't work when it is a one game playoff. Don't get me started on Reimhold either. His defense made a huge difference that inning.

At the end of the day though, it was our totally undisciplined bats that did us in. How many struck out swinging at a stupid ball in the dirt? When you have the leaders on this team doing that on a regular basis (yes I'm looking at you Adam!), you are not going anywhere in the playoffs. I'm totally crushed we didn't make it farther but at least we had a chance.

Tbf to Adam he at least got a hit and was a run. Wish I could say the same for over half the lineup.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Cville-Raven

[rmw10]

48 minutes ago, OriolesMagicPlease said:

I still don't have a problem with Tillman starting this game. I think Buck is a great manager, but what killed me is not putting Britton in once Ubaldo gave up the two hits. Totally stupid and I do think he was "saving" him for when we got a lead. That doesn't work when it is a one game playoff. Don't get me started on Reimhold either. His defense made a huge difference that inning.

At the end of the day though, it was our totally undisciplined bats that did us in. How many struck out swinging at a stupid ball in the dirt? When you have the leaders on this team doing that on a regular basis (yes I'm looking at you Adam!), you are not going anywhere in the playoffs. I'm totally crushed we didn't make it farther but at least we had a chance.

Adam Jones infuriates me to no end.  I was really hoping the spat with the fans during the Kim situation would fire him up at the plate, but he comes out and gets fooled by the curveball yet again.

[jimmypowder]

14 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Adam Jones infuriates me to no end.  I was really hoping the spat with the fans during the Kim situation would fire him up at the plate, but he comes out and gets fooled by the curveball yet again.

Jones is not a leadoff hitter. He is not patient enough. 

[rmw10]

Just now, jimmypowder said:

Jones is not a leadoff hitter. He is not patient enough. 

Hate to put down a player, but he's not as good as he thinks he is.

[rmw10]

With that being said though, Adam Jones will always hold a special place in Baltimore baseball history for me.  Regardless of his shortcomings, he's a big reason why winning baseball came back to Baltimore.  He's definitely accepted this city, so I still have tons and tons of respect for him.

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, jimmypowder said:

Jones is not a leadoff hitter. He is not patient enough. 

 

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

Hate to put down a player, but he's not as good as he thinks he is.

To be fair, his stats did go way up once he went into the leadoff spot.

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

 

To be fair, his stats did go way up once he went into the leadoff spot.

They did.  That OBP though... Need more out of a leadoff hitter.  He can get on base via hits but we need more patience and walks at the top of the order.

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

They did.  That OBP though... Need more out of a leadoff hitter.  He can get on base via hits but we need more patience and walks at the top of the order.

I wonder why they never tried Michael Bourn higher in the rotation along with Kim. Kim had a high BA and OBP and Bourn had a penchant for drawing walks and stealing bases.

[OriolesMagicPlease]

4 hours ago, Cville-Raven said:

Tbf to Adam he at least got a hit and was a run. Wish I could say the same for over half the lineup.

I like Adam, I really do. But he wasn't taking nearly enough pitches in that game. And he wasn't the only one obviously. It was the most frustrating thing to watch.

[OriolesMagicPlease]

4 hours ago, rmw10 said:

Adam Jones infuriates me to no end.  I was really hoping the spat with the fans during the Kim situation would fire him up at the plate, but he comes out and gets fooled by the curveball yet again.

I was so hoping for him to take some pitches and then crush his pitch during that at bat. That is how you retaliate!

[codizzle]

10 hours ago, rmw10 said:

Hate to put down a player, but he's not as good as he thinks he is.

yea he's calmed down a lot over past few years but has never been as good as he thought he was in the field or at the plate 

[codizzle]

its easy to blame ubaldo obviously but two runs and the overall second half was pathetic.. need some hitters who know how to you know take a pitch every once in awhile. 

And something that at least resembles a leadoff hitter