2017 - on your radars

[GrimCoconut]

2 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

I'm not sure we understand each other but what I meant is that because Watt has the IQ and can occasionnally drop back in coverage we're gonna try to make him a blitzing ILB where we could have an, NFL ready 3 down OLB, which would be a travesty.

Right but didn't you allude to the notion that we did this with Correa, thereby making a connection between these guys and thus insinuating that even if we'd draft Watt he'd be misused by the coaching staff since that's what we seemingly did with Correa? That's at least how I interpreted your comments, especially after looking at those referenced below:

7 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

I'll add to that that he's the best run defender in the class and by a mile.

My concern is that with his awareness and IQ we try to convert him to an ILB and it fails miserably...

Here you insinuate how Watt's awareness and IQ may get him converted to ILB. This is a subtle allusion to Correa but let's continue. 

6 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

Or give him the Correa treatment...

Yes, against the run he has the leverage and the power to completely push back OTs even though he lacks a bit in length. Also, the way he's used at Wisconsin makes me uncertain about how we would use him.

Here you make a direct correlation between Watt and Correa, which effectively ties in your prior statement about us potentially misusing Watt as an ILB. Granted you say the way Wisconsin used him concerns you about how we will but I assume that's once again in support of your attempt to correlate these two prospects not to compare them but show your disapproval of how the Ravens have used Correa to date. 

4 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

Well Correa did most of his work on the edge, and Watt drops in coverage and rushes from an interior position occasionally. I'm not criticizing the player by saying that, I'm criticizing how Pees and Harbs are going to seedo him.

Here you conclude your attempt to show your disdain for our use of Correa and make your final tying argument to show decreased confidence in Pees and Harbaugh using Watt because we haven't allegedly used Correa correctly. 

Honestly my issue is you're coming across as salty because a prospect you liked hasn't developed as expected and you're seemingly blaming the coaching staff for changing his position. I'm admittedly not a fan of the Correa pick and I hope he pans out but my opinion here isn't to call you out on liking Correa but to call out your clearly evident cynicism. I think if the player is good they'll play. I don't think we'd miscast Watt and put him at ILB unless it's to scheme something like we successfully did with McPhee and others before. I think if Watt is drafted he'd play OLB here. 

[Jacquouille]

25 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Right but didn't you allude to the notion that we did this with Correa, thereby making a connection between these guys and thus insinuating that even if we'd draft Watt he'd be misused by the coaching staff since that's what we seemingly did with Correa? That's at least how I interpreted your comments, especially after looking at those referenced below:

Here you insinuate how Watt's awareness and IQ may get him converted to ILB. This is a subtle allusion to Correa but let's continue. 

Here you make a direct correlation between Watt and Correa, which effectively ties in your prior statement about us potentially misusing Watt as an ILB. Granted you say the way Wisconsin used him concerns you about how we will but I assume that's once again in support of your attempt to correlate these two prospects not to compare them but show your disapproval of how the Ravens have used Correa to date. 

Here you conclude your attempt to show your disdain for our use of Correa and make your final tying argument to show decreased confidence in Pees and Harbaugh using Watt because we haven't allegedly used Correa correctly. 

Honestly my issue is you're coming across as salty because a prospect you liked hasn't developed as expected and you're seemingly blaming the coaching staff for changing his position. I'm admittedly not a fan of the Correa pick and I hope he pans out but my intent here isn't to call you out on liking Correa but to call out your clearly evident cynicism. I think if the player is good they'll play. I don't think we'd miscast Watt and put him at ILB unless it's to scheme something like we successfully did with McPhee and others before. I think if Watt is drafted he'd play OLB here. 

Hmm... Ok, I guess I'm a little confused myself. What you're saying is mostly right in fact, when I see Watt I fear that our staff sees another «hybrid» that they'll misuse. 

I'm not salty at all on Correa, I was very meh on the pick and described him as a «poor man's Noah Spence», (EDIT: I didn't want Spence btw, I wanted Alexander) but when I heard about his prowess in TC, I really didn't expect him to be given abysmal playing time in preseason and regular season. And that's my fear for Watt as well. I'm not a «fire Harbs and all his staff» guy (I actually advocated for Marty) but I don't trust Pees' creativity and his use of some of his players. Levine is another example.

If we draft TJ Watt and use him strictly as an ED, I'm all in and I'll gladly say that I feared for nothing though.

31 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

But coming into training camp we didn't know what we had in Orr and thought dumervil and zadarius would offer more which means that ilb would have been thought of as potentially a good way of getting Correa on the field whereas this year we know what we have in Orr and we don't know about dumervil and the pass rush this year - the coaches always talk about getting our best players on the field and if they draft watt they'll want to get him on the field which will be easier at edge rusher this year than inside - which is why I don't think it will happen or the coaches will even think about it

That is actually true and I didn't think about it, but still I don't see why he didn't get opportunities to prove himself on the edge when we were thin wirh Doom out and ZDS being a non factor.

Edited January 6 by Jacquouille

[rossihunter2]

2 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Hmm... Ok, I guess I'm a little confused myself. What you're saying is mostly right in fact, when I see Watt I fear that our staff sees another «hybrid» that they'll misuse. 

I'm not salty at all on Correa, I was very meh on the pick and described him as a «poor man's Noah Spence», but when I heard about his prowess in TC, I really didn't expect him to be given abysmal playing time in preseason and regular season. And that's my fear for Watt as well. I'm not a «fire Harbs and all his staff» guy (I actually advocated for Marty) but I don't trust Pees' creativity and his use of some of his players. Levine is another example.

If we draft TJ Watt and use him strictly as an ED, I'm all in and I'll gladly say that I feared for nothing though.

That is actually true and I didn't think about it, but still I don't see why he didn't get opportunities to prove himself on the edge when we were thin wirh Doom out and ZDS being a non factor.

At that point probably because he wasn't playing well enough - but he learned the position before they worked that out - with Watt I don't think there's any point him being played "out of position" even if he is a bust (god forbid) he probably wouldn't get played out of position

[GrimCoconut]

2 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Hmm... Ok, I guess I'm a little confused myself. What you're saying is mostly right in fact, when I see Watt I fear that our staff sees another «hybrid» that they'll misuse. 

I'm not salty at all on Correa, I was very meh on the pick and described him as a «poor man's Noah Spence», but when I heard about his prowess in TC, I really didn't expect him to be given abysmal playing time in preseason and regular season. And that's my fear for Watt as well. I'm not a «fire Harbs and all his staff» guy (I actually advocated for Marty) but I don't trust Pees' creativity and his use of some of his players. Levine is another example.

If we draft TJ Watt and use him strictly as an ED, I'm all in and I'll gladly say that I feared for nothing though.

That is actually true and I didn't think about it, but still I don't see why he didn't get opportunities to prove himself on the edge when we were thin wirh Doom out and ZDS being a non factor.

Okay I can appreciate that. I don't think Pees is nearly as bad as you suggest though I mean he had a top defense for some time and Weddle is likely a big part of that. He certainly didn't misuse McPhee.  Upshaw was used in coverage but I always thought that was an underrated part of his game even if I didn't like him as a pick. As for Correa hype in camp, that's a different story and I wouldn't read into that much because plenty of guys do well in camp and amount to nothing. 

[rossihunter2]

33 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

As for Correa hype in camp, that's a different story and I wouldn't read into that much because plenty of guys do well in camp and amount to nothing.

Omar brown and Aaron mellette anyone?

[reed20]

The only thing that can change my mind about a pass rusher is maybe Corey Davis. That kid is explosive.

[Davesta]

Corey Davis and dalvin cook on the board. Who do you pick? 

[Jacquouille]

9 minutes ago, Davesta said:

Corey Davis and dalvin cook on the board. Who do you pick? 

If I don't have any other choice than the two of them, Dalvin Cook with no hesitation.

[JoeyFlex5]

5 minutes ago, Davesta said:

Corey Davis and dalvin cook on the board. Who do you pick? 

Neither at 16

[Ravenskid52752]

32 minutes ago, Davesta said:

Corey Davis and dalvin cook on the board. Who do you pick? 

Depends on who's on the broad defensively

[rossihunter2]

2 hours ago, Davesta said:

Corey Davis and dalvin cook on the board. Who do you pick? 

trade down

[JoeyFlex5]

In a vacuum id take cook without hesitation. But on this team I don't think we're looking that direction at 16. I think we're laser focused on cb and edge rush unless we are 100% committed to bpa in which case cook is possible but I doubt it. 

[RaineV1]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

In a vacuum id take cook without hesitation. But on this team I don't think we're looking that direction at 16. I think we're laser focused on cb and edge rush unless we are 100% committed to bpa in which case cook is possible but I doubt it. 

I think the only two guys that could sway us away from edge and corner are Hooker or Adams.

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, RaineV1 said:

I think the only two guys that could sway us away from edge and corner are Hooker or Adams.

considering how many edge guys and corners there are id say you're pretty much right unless mike williams drops (unlikely)

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, RaineV1 said:

I think the only two guys that could sway us away from edge and corner are Hooker or Adams.

I doubt either of them are there and I think hooker would draw us away far more than Adams. 

I'm really getting on board with Charles Harris at 16. I've been watching him more and I'm seriously becoming enamored. He actually bends better than I gave him credit for and he needs very minimal coaching and physically he is the prototype.

I also love a Sidney Jones and either Ryan Anderson or Harold Landry combo.

[RaineV1]

3 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I doubt either of them are there and I think hooker would draw us away far more than Adams. 

I'm really getting on board with Charles Harris at 16. I've been watching him more and I'm seriously becoming enamored. He actually bends better than I gave him credit for and he needs very minimal coaching and physically he is the prototype.

I also love a Sidney Jones and either Ryan Anderson or Harold Landry combo.

Landry is returning to college for his senior year.

[redrum52]

Mike Williams.

[Darhk_Raven]

Has anyone heard or seen anything on the Center prospect from Kentucky, Jon Toth? He's listed as the 3rd best prospect at that position ahead of guys like Guillermo, Fuller, and Orlosky on Walter Football. 

[allblackraven]

2 minutes ago, Darhk_Raven said:

Has anyone heard or seen anything on the Center prospect from Kentucky, Jon Toth? He's listed as the 3rd best prospect at that position ahead of guys like Guillermo, Fuller, and Orlosky on Walter Football. 

Very good blocker but I'm not sure he can hold the leverage in NFL as well as he did in college, since he is 6'5"

[JoeyFlex5]

37 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

Landry is returning to college for his senior year.

Really? Damn it man. He was one of my guys.

[rossihunter2]

46 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Really? Damn it man. He was one of my guys.

its understandable financially for him though - i imagine some more players are gonna do a jonathan allen and go back for their senior year so because the pay difference from 1st/2nd round to top of the 1st is enormous

[Ravenseconbeast]

Dan Feeney @ 2nd round & Tyler Orlovsky the very next round as our center.   Back to back O-line upgrade for offense.   

 

If we can't get either of those, at least grab Quenten Nelson from Nortre Dame  @ 3rd round if we grab WR and Pass rush early.

Edited January 10 by Ravenseconbeast

[RaineV1]

1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

its understandable financially for him though - i imagine some more players are gonna do a jonathan allen and go back for their senior year so because the pay difference from 1st/2nd round to top of the 1st is enormous

Plus next year's draft will likely have a lot less edge rushers. He could go from being an early to mid 2nd round pick to a mid first round pick with a good senior year and a weaker edge class.

[rossihunter2]

3 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

Plus next year's draft will likely have a lot less edge rushers. He could go from being an early to mid 2nd round pick to a mid first round pick with a good senior year and a weaker edge class.

is that true? - i never really tune into draft prospects until bowl season each year at the earliest (except for the obvious flashy guys who you cant avoid like qbs)

[RaineV1]

Just now, rossihunter2 said:

is that true? - i never really tune into draft prospects until bowl season each year at the earliest (except for the obvious flashy guys who you cant avoid like qbs)

This year is insane with the number of high end edge rushers in the draft.

[allblackraven]

2 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

This year is insane with the number of high end edge rushers in the draft.

Almost like how '14 was loaded with quality receivers. 

Sounds like the outcome for the Ravens will be the same

 

[rossihunter2]

6 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

This year is insane with the number of high end edge rushers in the draft.

no i know this year is loaded, i just didnt know that next year looks so weak...

[rossihunter2]

2 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Almost like how '14 was loaded with quality receivers. 

Sounds like the outcome for the Ravens will be the same

 

you mean getting cj mosley, timmy jernigan and co?

[Cillmatic]

2 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

you mean getting cj mosley, timmy jernigan and co?

The argument for Timmy is getting less and less useful. Dude is not reliable.

[Boddiebroadus]

Hasson Reddick anyone. I don't watch college ball but came across his tape. He looked good to me. His tape vs Memphis sold him for me