2017 - on your radars

[RaineV1]

Barring a trade back, I think the Ravens' top five options at 16 will be:
Tim Williams
Derek Barnett
Sidney Jones
Jamal Adams
Charles Harris

[rmw10]

2 hours ago, Somerset Ravens said:

I understand completely what you are saying about the money aspect. If you believe money is that important to you don't play in the bowl game. Money isn't that important to everyone but that is a value judgment for each individual to make. Not playing in the bowl game is a case of putting yourself before others which is the definition if selfish.

 

It's selfish but it's also a business decision.  I'd like to say that if I was in their place, I would choose to play the game even with the associated risk.  Over time though, I don't think I would.  If I'm talking about making guaranteed millions of dollars vs. potentially ending/severely delaying my career and losing millions of dollars, I'm going to make the best business decision.  Too often this is made to be just a game, when it's not really the case.  That's what we as the fans see, but this is the livelihood of most players.  This is their ticket to a secure future.  I cannot blame any player one bit for sitting out a game.

[Jacquouille]

1 hour ago, RaineV1 said:

Barring a trade back, I think the Ravens' top five options at 16 will be:
Tim Williams
Derek Barnett
Sidney Jones
Jamal Adams
Charles Harris

Jamaal Adams won't be there, he's going top10 bank on it. I'd put Malik Hooker instead, really like what I saw from him lately.

[hn68wb4]

So I just saw that TJ Watt declared for the draft and I want him badly, but I think he's exactly in the wrong spot for us: a reach at #16 but won't make it to our second pick. He's one of the few guys I'd be 100% ok with trading up for in the second if he's there.

Some of these underclassmen that are declaring are shaking up the first round and I love it.

Edited January 3 by hn68wb4

[Jacquouille]

8 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

So I just saw that TJ Watt declared for the draft and I want him badly, but I think he's exactly in the wrong spot for us: a reach at #16 but won't make it to our second pick. He's one of the few guys I'd be 100% ok with trading up for in the second.

Some of these underclassmen that are declaring are shaking up the first round and I love it.

Haven't seen any sort of tape from him... I read that he's more of a blitzing LB, that true?

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

On 12/31/2016 at 7:16 PM, allblackraven said:

Well, I was wrong about Butt - he tore his ACL:

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18385112/michigan-wolverines-te-jake-butt-suffered-torn-acl-orange-bowl

Likely to pick up $2M insurance policy if taken after the 2nd round.

 

Can we please draft the guy just for name value alone? I'll buy his jersey for crying out loud. He's a good player too, and honestly Jim owes us one... So

[hn68wb4]

5 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Haven't seen any sort of tape from him... I read that he's more of a blitzing LB, that true?

He plays edge for Wisconsin, and from what I saw he does pretty much everything well, he's truly gifted as a rusher though, of course he's not a finished product, I'm not sure anybody is, but I think you could start him day 1 and have no big troubles with him. If you want to watch him you can look up other Wisconsin defenders on draftbreakdown or type in "Wisconsin (2016)" and pick out offensive players that took on Wisconsin, it's really a travesty that there is not straight up tape of Watt on the site yet.

[rossihunter2]

On 03/01/2017 at 9:49 PM, Jacquouille said:

Haven't seen any sort of tape from him... I read that he's more of a blitzing LB, that true?

I just watched some tape on watt and he looks a quintessential 3-4 olb in style and the way he's used in the system - sets the edge well, rushes off the edge and doesn't have his hand in the ground a whole lot, very occasionally drops into coverage - he looks a really good prospect

[rossihunter2]

On 03/01/2017 at 2:45 PM, RaineV1 said:

Barring a trade back, I think the Ravens' top five options at 16 will be:
Tim Williams
Derek Barnett
Sidney Jones
Jamal Adams
Charles Harris

I don't think derek Barnett's there - he looks like a top 10ish kind of guy - I think he's the second best rusher in the class but Tim Williams and tj watt would both probably be available at 16 - I personally don't like Charles Harris as much having watched some film - I dont see what a lot of the draftniks seem to praising him for

Edited January 5 by rossihunter2

[RaineV1]

1 minute ago, rossihunter2 said:

I don't think derek Barnett's there - he looks like a top 10ish kind of guy - I think he's the second best rusher in the class but Tim Williams and tj watt would both probably be available at 16

I think Williams goes before Barnett.

[rossihunter2]

13 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

I think Williams goes before Barnett.

I think I prefer Williams too but I see Barnett being a top 10 kinda guy (15 latest) and no team should draft a guy around the top 10 who wont play on running downs and therefore will see much fewer snaps

[GrimCoconut]

On 1/4/2017 at 10:29 PM, rossihunter2 said:

I just watched some tape on watt and he looks a quintessential 3-4 olb in style and the way he's used in the system - sets the edge well, rushes off the edge and doesn't have his hand in the ground a whole lot, very occasionally drops into coverage - he looks a really good prospect

TJ is very talented from the games I've seen on him but I need to dig more because I began taking notice of him earlier this year but didn't get to watch every game and even then I wasn't rewinding like I would when scouting only enjoying his play.  He looked really good when I did focus on him and seemed to do well converting speed to power and use of hands so well see if that holds true when I go back and key in on him

[Davesta]

How about Eddie Jackson, safety from bama? Could we get him in the 3rd or 4th and redshirt him for a year? Eventually taking over for Webby 

[JoeyFlex5]

Tj watt appears to have a high iq and He thinks faster than everyone else he plays with. He doesn't just go out and play, he goes out and nails his assignments and makes plays happen for him and all his teammates. 

Wouldn't take him at 16 just yet until I see more film, but he would be a good trade back target

[Jacquouille]

44 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Tj watt appears to have a high iq and He thinks faster than everyone else he plays with. He doesn't just go out and play, he goes out and nails his assignments and makes plays happen for him and all his teammates. 

Wouldn't take him at 16 just yet until I see more film, but he would be a good trade back target

I'll add to that that he's the best run defender in the class and by a mile.

My concern is that with his awareness and IQ we try to convert him to an ILB and it fails miserably...

[rossihunter2]

8 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

I'll add to that that he's the best run defender in the class and by a mile.

My concern is that with his awareness and IQ we try to convert him to an ILB and it fails miserably...

In my eyes it's more likely we try and find him snaps which won't come at ilb because of CJ and Orr so we'll have no option but to use him on the edge

[Darhk_Raven]

29 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

I'll add to that that he's the best run defender in the class and by a mile.

My concern is that with his awareness and IQ we try to convert him to an ILB and it fails miserably...

If he is as good against the run as you say he is and he can really rush the passer, then that would automatically make him the starting OLB opposite of Suggs.. 

[rossihunter2]

4 minutes ago, Darhk_Raven said:

If he is as good against the run as you say he is and he can really rush the passer, then that would automatically make him the starting OLB opposite of Suggs.. 

He is impressive, I think I'd still prefer Tim Williams on a purely pass rushing basis - but watt will see the field more just because of his edge setting etc.

[Jacquouille]

33 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

In my eyes it's more likely we try and find him snaps which won't come at ilb because of CJ and Orr so we'll have no option but to use him on the edge

Or give him the Correa treatment...

9 minutes ago, Darhk_Raven said:

If he is as good against the run as you say he is and he can really rush the passer, then that would automatically make him the starting OLB opposite of Suggs.. 

Yes, against the run he has the leverage and the power to completely push back OTs even though he lacks a bit in length. Also, the way he's used at Wisconsin makes me uncertain about how we would use him.

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, Jacquouille said:

Or give him the Correa treatment...

Yes, against the run he has the leverage and the power to completely push back OTs even though he lacks a bit in length. Also, the way he's used at Wisconsin makes me uncertain about how we would use him.

The reason Correa got the Correa treatment was to find him snaps - which were most likely to come inside than outside at that point and because he looked more like a 4-3 olb than a 3-4 olb - watt is a different case where he is 100% a 3-4 olb who plays that way at Wisconsin - Correa was being taught coverage and blitzing which is not what watt would be doing - he's an edge setter and outside rusher through and through

[Jacquouille]

25 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

The reason Correa got the Correa treatment was to find him snaps - which were most likely to come inside than outside at that point and because he looked more like a 4-3 olb than a 3-4 olb - watt is a different case where he is 100% a 3-4 olb who plays that way at Wisconsin - Correa was being taught coverage and blitzing which is not what watt would be doing - he's an edge setter and outside rusher through and through

Well Correa did most of his work on the edge, and Watt drops in coverage and rushes from an interior position occasionally. I'm not criticizing the player by saying that, I'm criticizing how Pees and Harbs are going to seedo him.

[GrimCoconut]

3 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

I'll add to that that he's the best run defender in the class and by a mile.

My concern is that with his awareness and IQ we try to convert him to an ILB and it fails miserably...

If you're alluding to Correa that's not his problem because he doesn't look like he has the football IQ atm. 

[Jacquouille]

15 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

If you're alluding to Correa that's not his problem because he doesn't look like he has the football IQ atm. 

Who are you taljing about? Because Watt has one of the best IQ you could ask for.

[GrimCoconut]

3 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Who are you taljing about? Because Watt has one of the best IQ you could ask for.

I'm talking about your attempt to suggest Watt would be in a similar situation as Correa except the problem with your comparison is Correa didn't have high football IQ and still doesn't but hopefully that comes because he came from the infamous Boise State football program 

Edited January 6 by GrimCoconut

[hn68wb4]

6 hours ago, Davesta said:

How about Eddie Jackson, safety from bama? Could we get him in the 3rd or 4th and redshirt him for a year? Eventually taking over for Webby 

I'm still very high on Jackson, even though he didn't start this season as well as he played last year. He wouldn't have to redshirt year one, Matt Miller is saying that he will be running by the combine - not to say he'd run the 40, I seriously doubt that, but he might run through some drills.

[allblackraven]

1 minute ago, hn68wb4 said:

I'm still very high on Jackson, even though he didn't start this season as well as he played last year. He wouldn't have to redshirt year one, Matt Miller is saying that he will be running by the combine - not to say he'd run the 40, I seriously doubt that, but he might run through some drills.

3rd or 4th is not going to happen with Jackson I reckon

[hn68wb4]

1 minute ago, allblackraven said:

3rd or 4th is not going to happen with Jackson I reckon

I certainly don't think the 4th, but I think the 3rd is possible. Currently I have him back at late 2nd to mid 3rd since his injury was a clean break, no ligament or nerve damage, so once he's healed up he should be right back to 100%. He could rise back up to pre injury status, but I don't know if he'll ever make it back into first round status with the secondary class being so stacked.

[Jacquouille]

1 hour ago, GrimCoconut said:

I'm talking about your attempt to suggest Watt would be in a similar situation as Correa except the problem with your comparison is Correa didn't have high football IQ and still doesn't but hopefully that comes because he came from the infamous Boise State football program 

I'm not sure we understand each other but what I meant is that because Watt has the IQ and can occasionnally drop back in coverage we're gonna try to make him a blitzing ILB where we could have an, NFL ready 3 down OLB, which would be a travesty.

[rossihunter2]

4 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

Well Correa did most of his work on the edge, and Watt drops in coverage and rushes from an interior position occasionally. I'm not criticizing the player by saying that, I'm criticizing how Pees and Harbs are going to seedo him.

But coming into training camp we didn't know what we had in Orr and thought dumervil and zadarius would offer more which means that ilb would have been thought of as potentially a good way of getting Correa on the field whereas this year we know what we have in Orr and we don't know about dumervil and the pass rush this year - the coaches always talk about getting our best players on the field and if they draft watt they'll want to get him on the field which will be easier at edge rusher this year than inside - which is why I don't think it will happen or the coaches will even think about it

Edited January 6 by rossihunter2

[GrimCoconut]

2 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

I'm not sure we understand each other but what I meant is that because Watt has the IQ and can occasionnally drop back in coverage we're gonna try to make him a blitzing ILB where we could have an, NFL ready 3 down OLB, which would be a travesty.

Right but didn't you allude to the notion that we did this with Correa, thereby making a connection between these guys and thus insinuating that even if we'd draft Watt he'd be misused by the coaching staff since that's what we seemingly did with Correa? That's at least how I interpreted your comments, especially after looking at those referenced below:

7 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

I'll add to that that he's the best run defender in the class and by a mile.

My concern is that with his awareness and IQ we try to convert him to an ILB and it fails miserably...

Here you insinuate how Watt's awareness and IQ may get him converted to ILB. This is a subtle allusion to Correa but let's continue. 

6 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

Or give him the Correa treatment...

Yes, against the run he has the leverage and the power to completely push back OTs even though he lacks a bit in length. Also, the way he's used at Wisconsin makes me uncertain about how we would use him.

Here you make a direct correlation between Watt and Correa, which effectively ties in your prior statement about us potentially misusing Watt as an ILB. Granted you say the way Wisconsin used him concerns you about how we will but I assume that's once again in support of your attempt to correlate these two prospects not to compare them but show your disapproval of how the Ravens have used Correa to date. 

5 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

Well Correa did most of his work on the edge, and Watt drops in coverage and rushes from an interior position occasionally. I'm not criticizing the player by saying that, I'm criticizing how Pees and Harbs are going to seedo him.

Here you conclude your attempt to show your disdain for our use of Correa and make your final tying argument to show decreased confidence in Pees and Harbaugh using Watt because we haven't allegedly used Correa correctly. 

Honestly my issue is you're coming across as salty because a prospect you liked hasn't developed as expected and you're seemingly blaming the coaching staff for changing his position. I'm admittedly not a fan of the Correa pick and I hope he pans out but my intent here isn't to call you out on liking Correa but to call out your clearly evident cynicism. I think if the player is good they'll play. I don't think we'd miscast Watt and put him at ILB unless it's to scheme something like we successfully did with McPhee and others before. I think if Watt is drafted he'd play OLB here. 

Edited January 6 by GrimCoconut