2017 - on your radars

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, JoeyFlex5 said:

Draftbreakdown has some reliable film of him. You can find what makes him attractive and what turns you away all in the same game. Hes on there timing a few snaps well, he took over a 2nd half with multiple sacks, hes made plays on the ball in the air, but he's also jumped offsides trying to jump the count, hes whiffed on a fair share of tackles, held the edge but then totally blew the assignment when it came time to shed and tackle. He's got a lot of good and a fair bit of bad. If he fell and we took him I wouldn't be mad at all, he probably could make a difference.

Isn't his player comparison Suggs?

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Isn't his player comparison Suggs?

That was my first thought so if the draftniks say so then I'd agree lol. His burst off the line and first step isn't quite what suggs was when he first came in, but his ability to handfight and stutter and sequence snaps together to set himself up for the big rush is definitely comparable. He plays chess, not checkers. Always good to have a NFL ready skill set and iq. I just hate how he plays against the tackle so smart but he gets stupid when it's time to finish.

One thing I'll say he does better than suggs is bend, hes got that low lean and swivel ability when he wins the corner to ensure that the tackle can't get that last ditch effort and shove him past the pocket. That's something that can't be coached.

Edited December 21, 2016 by JoeyFlex5

[BmoreBird22]

38 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

That was my first thought so if the draftniks say so then I'd agree lol. His burst off the line and first step isn't quite what suggs was when he first came in, but his ability to handfight and stutter and sequence snaps together to set himself up for the big rush is definitely comparable. He plays chess, not checkers. Always good to have a NFL ready skill set and iq. I just hate how he plays against the tackle so smart but he gets stupid when it's time to finish.

One thing I'll say he does better than suggs is bend, hes got that low lean and swivel ability when he wins the corner to ensure that the tackle can't get that last ditch effort and shove him past the pocket. That's something that can't be coached.

He's one that I've heard so many good things about that I haven't watched him because I'm of the mindset that he probably will not make it to the Ravens, but we'll see. I'm all for taking a good pass rusher in the first and a corner in the second.

[Jacquouille]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

He's one that I've heard so many good things about that I haven't watched him because I'm of the mindset that he probably will not make it to the Ravens, but we'll see. I'm all for taking a good pass rusher in the first and a corner in the second.

Yeah, just saw his SC tape. All things considered he may be 2 or 3 picks outside of our reach. His play this year is lightyears ahead of last year's and he's totally garanteed a top15 pick. My only hope for him to be there when we pick is an average combine, and particularly a slow 40yds, esp considering Williams, Garett and McKinley will crush it.

[JoeyFlex5]

5 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

He's one that I've heard so many good things about that I haven't watched him because I'm of the mindset that he probably will not make it to the Ravens, but we'll see. I'm all for taking a good pass rusher in the first and a corner in the second.

He likely won't but I think he falls from where he is now. He's got questions about his 3 down ability, and he isn't an explosive athlete. I'll call him a early-mid teens pick.

[RaineV1]

I could see Barnett sliding to the late teens simply because of the chance others leap frog ahead of him with great combines. That said, there's too many near playoff teams that want a better edge rusher for him to make it to the mid twenties. If the Ravens make the playoffs, he likely won't be there.

[JoeyFlex5]

16 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

I could see Barnett sliding to the late teens simply because of the chance others leap frog ahead of him with great combines. That said, there's too many near playoff teams that want a better edge rusher for him to make it to the mid twenties. If the Ravens make the playoffs, he likely won't be there.

yeah hes not falling to the 20s, not without some character issues arising. i think this was mostly assuming we dont make it.

[Jacquouille]

Charles Harris' tape against Vandy has 1st round talent written all over it. Loved how many moves he used to win his matchups, and the fact he attacked the T with a plan.

[Italian Raven]

On 23/12/2016 at 11:53 PM, Jacquouille said:

Charles Harris' tape against Vandy has 1st round talent written all over it. Loved how many moves he used to win his matchups, and the fact he attacked the T with a plan.

Agreed.. Too bad he gets washed on run plays.

He has zero ability to stick to his blocker to mind his gap, shread it and make the play.. You'll always see him trying to avoid contact and I don't like that.

He does have some serious pass-rush talent but how much of the run stuff game can you actually teach him? 

[Jacquouille]

6 minutes ago, Italian Raven said:

Agreed.. Too bad he gets washed on run plays.

He has zero ability to stick to his blocker to mind his gap, shread it and make the play.. You'll always see him trying to avoid contact and I don't like that.

He does have some serious pass-rush talent but how much of the run stuff game can you actually teach him? 

I think all of his problem come from the mental side of the game. He has all you would need from an EDGE to set the edge and defend the run from a physical standpoint. However his major problem is he doesn't keep contain and is undisciplined. Honestly I think this type of stuff is something we teach very well, the best example would be Judon whose tape never indicated a guy that could care about the run, and yet we made him a very decent run defender.

[Italian Raven]

If the game of yesterday (and many others we've lost this way) taught us anything is that no matter what DBs you have as long as the DC mentality is to play that much off man.

How would the addition of a S.Jones change the outcome of such a game/drive?

How much would a good pass-rush help pressuring the QB with a 4 men front, instead? 

If the coaches are going to be the same next year (which I surely don't hope) then OLB>>DB.

Also, if we cut Doom (6M), Watson (3M), Arrington (2M), K.Lewis (2M) without touching the contracts of Wallace, Pitta, Zuttah, Wright and Webb we'll have 13 M of savings and around 35 M of CAP space heading into 2017. That would allow us to manage those of Wagner, Juice and B.Williams with a certain degree of comfort and focus on the other more coveted positions. Pretty confident we're able to address our holes in the draft alone.

[Davesta]

I just want Corey Davis. Somehow...

[hn68wb4]

Bright side of missing the playoffs (There's still technically a shot, but in all likelihood we're out) is that we get to pick earlier, so we have more options. Frankly, with the way our offense performed this year, we didn't deserve to make it. I would not be opposed to a complete overhaul of the offensive coaching staff, keep the defensive side the same but Mornhinweg clearly needs to go and some position coaches better start preparing their job applications too. That being said, I'm still an advocate for CB in the first, still Sidney Jones 100%, or trade back a few picks now that we're in the teens, gather some picks and we can still grab a CB, pass rusher, or olineman no problem.

[JoeyFlex5]

My priorities in the first round: 

Tim Williams 

Sidney Jones

Quenton Nelson

Derek Barnett 

Second round: 

Evan engram(we move on from pitta who has dropped every crucial pass that has hit his hands this year. He's not the same guy. Engram is a better athlete and plays tougher in traffic with elite yac ability and plays the same flex role that pitta plays) 

Dan feeney

Pat elflein 

Ethan pocic

[Jacquouille]

To me best case bar none is to get 3 picks in the second instead of one pick in each round. That would give us an elite C, a great pass rusher and a great CB. 

[JO_75]

Each year we know there are those with character concerns, issues, etc. A guy like Tyreek Hill had a domestic violence issue and most teams took him off their board. He cleaned up, hasn't gotten trouble off the field since he was drafted by the Chiefs. He has let his football play speak for itself. What guys do you see in this draft that have character concerns which may be overblown and will be excellent football players that teams will avoid and could be a potential steal late or even undrafted?

Then which ones with concerns do you see the red flags on that are not worthy of being drafted or being signed as a UDFA?

[BmoreBird22]

12 hours ago, Italian Raven said:

If the game of yesterday (and many others we've lost this way) taught us anything is that no matter what DBs you have as long as the DC mentality is to play that much off man.

But that's simply not the mentality of the coordinator.

One thing I noticed fairly often was that if Young/Wright drew Rogers or any of the other receivers down the depth chart, they got up in his face. If they drew Brown, they sagged back.

Purely about the man across from them.

And even still, Sidney Jones is incredibly fluid and has good footwork, so working out of off man coverage wouldn't be a major issue with him.

[JoeyFlex5]

3 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

But that's simply not the mentality of the coordinator.

One thing I noticed fairly often was that if Young/Wright drew Rogers or any of the other receivers down the depth chart, they got up in his face. If they drew Brown, they sagged back.

Purely about the man across from them.

And even still, Sidney Jones is incredibly fluid and has good footwork, so working out of off man coverage wouldn't be a major issue with him.

Sidney Jones is one of the most scheme diverse corners I've ever seen in college. He's ideal for off coverage because he always has his eyes on the qb but never loses his receiver, and he never gets too caught up in any one motion, hes never overcommitting so he never needs to recover. 

I think Sidney Jones might be the best pure cover corner PROSPECT I've ever seen since I started following the draft. can't find a single thing that doesn't suggest An all pro shutdown corner.

[Jacquouille]

11 hours ago, JO_75 said:

Each year we know there are those with character concerns, issues, etc. A guy like Tyreek Hill had a domestic violence issue and most teams took him off their board. He cleaned up, hasn't gotten trouble off the field since he was drafted by the Chiefs. He has let his football play speak for itself. What guys do you see in this draft that have character concerns which may be overblown and will be excellent football players that teams will avoid and could be a potential steal late or even undrafted?

Then which ones with concerns do you see the red flags on that are not worthy of being drafted or being signed as a UDFA?

Joe Mixon is the guy that directly comes to mind. Also there are rumors of Dede Westbrook having a domestic violence issue as well, so there's that.

[BmoreBird22]

6 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

Joe Mixon is the guy that directly comes to mind. Also there are rumors of Dede Westbrook having a domestic violence issue as well, so there's that.

Mixon has a video out of him punching a girl in the jaw and walking away. Not sure he gets touched.

[TNRaven24]

12 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Mixon has a video out of him punching a girl in the jaw and walking away. Not sure he gets touched.

He's too good.  If Mixon comes out, he'll be picked

[Jacquouille]

32 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Mixon has a video out of him punching a girl in the jaw and walking away. Not sure he gets touched.

 

18 minutes ago, TNRaven24 said:

He's too good.  If Mixon comes out, he'll be picked

He's judged as «undrafable» by teams. At least one team is going to sign him as an UDFA.

[Italian Raven]

17 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

But that's simply not the mentality of the coordinator.

One thing I noticed fairly often was that if Young/Wright drew Rogers or any of the other receivers down the depth chart, they got up in his face. If they drew Brown, they sagged back.

Are you suggesting that our opponents 4th qr comebacks this season (and in this game in particular) were caused by their WRs outplaying our DBs rather than bad coaching? Just to make it clear..

I don't have the nfl pass and can't rewatch the games to see whether there were missed assignments, bad calls oe just bad plays.

[hn68wb4]

3 hours ago, TNRaven24 said:

He's too good.  If Mixon comes out, he'll be picked

Not sure about that, Burfict was "too good" to go undrafted, and he did, with far less than what Mixon has done. The video makes all the difference, if no video came out then I'd agree, some team would take a shot on him, but no team wants to be associated whatsoever with that video, that would be a PR nightmare.

Edited December 27, 2016 by hn68wb4

[DomMcRaven]

1 hour ago, hn68wb4 said:

Not sure about that, Burfict was "too good" to go undrafted, and he did, with far less than what Mixon has done. The video makes all the difference, if no video came out then I'd agree, some team would take a shot on him, but no team wants to be associated whatsoever with that video, that would be a PR nightmare.

ESPECIALLY not this team.

[GrimCoconut]

On 12/26/2016 at 4:56 PM, BmoreBird22 said:

But that's simply not the mentality of the coordinator.

One thing I noticed fairly often was that if Young/Wright drew Rogers or any of the other receivers down the depth chart, they got up in his face. If they drew Brown, they sagged back.

Purely about the man across from them.

And even still, Sidney Jones is incredibly fluid and has good footwork, so working out of off man coverage wouldn't be a major issue with him.

Sidney Jones is my top realistic option for us to draft and I say that because we see talented CB drop every year. I thought Jimmy was the best in 2011, thought Trufant and Slay were the best in 2013. It happens all the time but pass rushers very very rarely drop

[jboy19]

Hard to tell what could happen to Mixon. Tyreek Hill got drafted in the 5th Round while Shawn Oakman couldn't even get an UDFA contract (his situation was definitely a lot worse though). 

Edited December 27, 2016 by jboy19

[BmoreBird22]

7 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

He's judged as «undrafable» by teams. At least one team is going to sign him as an UDFA.

With the way the NFL has cracked down on DV and the fact that there is a video associated with this, I doubt it. No team would even sign Ray Rice to the vet minimum on a one year deal, despite the fact that he wanted all the proceeds donated to charities. He basically told teams he'd play for free and no team wanted to touch him because having that type of player on your team isn't something any team wants.

[BmoreBird22]

7 hours ago, Italian Raven said:

Are you suggesting that our opponents 4th qr comebacks this season (and in this game in particular) were caused by their WRs outplaying our DBs rather than bad coaching? Just to make it clear..

I don't have the nfl pass and can't rewatch the games to see whether there were missed assignments, bad calls oe just bad plays.

In this particular game, I would say that. 

There are some games where the play calling became too conservative (against the Raiders they went to a very conservative Cover 3, but even then, Wright was dreadful in completing his assignment and Lewis was pretty late). 

In this game, though, on the Bell receiving touchdown drive, I seem to remember him gashing the Ravens for like 40+ yards on two separate runs. That just comes down to the Ravens getting manhandled up front. On his touchdown run drive, Tavon Young's PI is really what I'd put that drive on and that's because he got flat out beat. 

On that final drive, I saw him blitz with linebackers, off the edge, try rushing just four and looping the ends inside, playing zone, and man. He did just about everything on that final drive and it just didn't get home. 

This is one game where I don't put that collapse on Pees because no matter what he threw out there, the Steelers found a weakness. When they ran, they ran at Doom or Judon. When they passed, they went after Wright. 

 

[Jacquouille]

10 hours ago, jboy19 said:

Hard to tell what could happen to Mixon. Tyreek Hill got drafted in the 5th Round while Shawn Oakman couldn't even get an UDFA contract (his situation was definitely a lot worse though). 

Oakman wasn't even good.