Hypothetical: Ravens trade up to #3

[Halshayeji]

25 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Man... What is it about you and exaggerating every little concern lol. 

 

Do you really think bosa would be useless here? I can not for the life of me see how a team who desperately needs a pass rusher and runs nickel just as often as the base 34, would find bosa useless. It just does not settle with me...

 

.

He actually makes a few good points. Bosa is not a great fit in any 3-4 system he's a great athlete and football player. If the elite 3 are gone then our FO will probably look into the possibility of trading back. Then weigh their options.

but then he had to take it one more step and say "at all" then "he'd be useless" 

[JoeyFlex5]

8 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

He actually makes a few good points. Bosa is not a great fit in any 3-4 system he's a great athlete and football player. If the elite 3 are gone then our FO will probably look into the possibility of trading back. Then weigh their options.

but then he had to take it one more step and say "at all" then "he'd be useless" 

You said the key word to contradict yourself. He's a football player. He's gonna make an impact regardless of system. And you don't draft around the scheme, you draft good players and put them on the field in a role they fit at. If bosa slides in on 34 formations and kicks out to 5tech in nickel, or if he's at 5tech and dumervil or suggs is lined up in a 9wide then you are putting your best guys on the field and with bosa in that role it's a very disruptive front. 

 

Bosa would be right at home here in Baltimore and if he is a moving piece then it just gives us more diverse looks to play with. Pees is a genius with the front seven even if his secondary schemes are questionable, he would let bosa wreak havoc.

[thieverycorporation]

2 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

I would agree that no body named "boby" should be sought after in a trade up scenario, but there is this top-tier LT named Laremy Tunsil that might be a perennial All-pro that might be worth a few extra picks to get if he makes it to three.

Long as you got the point I'm good with the typo critique. Sure Tunsil is the consensus pro bowler type. However betting on a single pair of legs while leveraging it with multiple picks when you have quality volume in the latter and little cap space remaining means your ballooning the payments in every aspect. I'm not on board with that hedge fund. Sure I'd love to get Tunsil but not at any cost. Funny how Mr. B agrees. Smokescreen I think not. Opening bell @ the Baltimore Ravens stock exchange simply rings true in my ears. Building thru the draft won't field an all star team but rather a nucleus for the next monster they would like to build. I'll agree to disagree.

[ellicottraven]

On 3/30/2016 at 0:55 PM, Dame2 said:

If Tunsil go #1 and a QB go #2 are the Ravens willing to give up a third rd pick to move up 3 spots to get Jalen Remsey I think it will be a great move also.

Two things come to mind at this scenario. One the Chargers won't trade down at that price. Two we won't trade up for Ramsey. I see a possibility of trading up if Tunsil falls to #3, but then again the Chargers would be idiots to let Tunsil go as well!

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

Nobody in this draft is worth giving up the ammo it would take to move up 3 spots at the top of the draft. We might as well sit and wait for Jack, Buckner, VH3, or Bosa to fall to us. You don't make that kind of move unless you believe a player can change the franchise. Ask the Redskins about how they feel giving up all they did for RG3 only for him to be on another team now. 

[Winchester]

With rg3 being a qb his football iq was not very good. The redskins did not think that through. If Tunsil is there at 3 moving up is a consideration. Ravens do not need solid players the ravens need cornerstones!! And cornerstones rarely fall in your lap. For the record Buckner is a bust in my opinion and vh3 will be good but not elite. One more game lost would look very good as in draft position!! Ideal would be for Bosa to fall to 6 then trade back into top20 for Nkemdiche. It is mind boggling that anybody could ever of remotely  put Buckner in his category much less rated better than Nkemdiche. 

[ArsenalRaven666]

I dont see us moving up unless it is at a bargain price like our low 4th.

Not sure how much a jump it would be but the cost of moving up would also be the increased wages.

 

Edited March 31, 2016 by ArsenalRaven666

[chunkywill25]

id trade up to 5 to secure one of the elite talents. I'm fine with whoever is left

[JoeyFlex5]

8 hours ago, Winchester said:

With rg3 being a qb his football iq was not very good. The redskins did not think that through. If Tunsil is there at 3 moving up is a consideration. Ravens do not need solid players the ravens need cornerstones!! And cornerstones rarely fall in your lap. For the record Buckner is a bust in my opinion and vh3 will be good but not elite. One more game lost would look very good as in draft position!! Ideal would be for Bosa to fall to 6 then trade back into top20 for Nkemdiche. It is mind boggling that anybody could ever of remotely  put Buckner in his category much less rated better than Nkemdiche. 

People weren't doing that though. Before the stupidity came to light and before tunsil returned he was pretty much the consensus #1 talent. 

 

In terms of being disruptive and a raw high ceiling interior pass rusher nobody is denying his talent. But compared to buckner he is more of a project and an athlete and a very high risk off the field. The situation with his brother almost guarantees he will face suspensions at some point. And let's not forget how often he fails to finish the play. 

 

Nkemdiche is completely off of many teams boards and for good reason, he is the biggest character risk I think I've ever seen, he has a manziel like history off the field and has a similar attitude about it and has a discouraging entourage surrounding him. I wouldn't touch him til the 4th round I don't care about his talent level.

[RavensDieHard21]

Okay i'll admit that the trade up will be hard to do and SD would be dumb to let Tunsil slide by them, unless they are absolutely in love with Buckner or Jack. I am almost at this point willing to bet that Bosa or Jack will be there at 6, especially Bosa. Titans and Dallas are the only other ideal fits, and Dallas has been surprising lately and it wouldn't startle me if they took Elliot or Lawson lol

[Winchester]

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

People weren't doing that though. Before the stupidity came to light and before tunsil returned he was pretty much the consensus #1 talent. 

 

In terms of being disruptive and a raw high ceiling interior pass rusher nobody is denying his talent. But compared to buckner he is more of a project and an athlete and a very high risk off the field. The situation with his brother almost guarantees he will face suspensions at some point. And let's not forget how often he fails to finish the play. 

 

Nkemdiche is completely off of many teams boards and for good reason, he is the biggest character risk I think I've ever seen, he has a manziel like history off the field and has a similar attitude about it and has a discouraging entourage surrounding him. I wouldn't touch him til the 4th round I don't care about his talent level.

Why are we discussing his brother?? There was one incident. He has not failed any drug tests. And his production will come. Many elite sack  producers did not have impressive college stats. You can coach technique. You can not coach his talent. He is some risk as is any player. At least he has the skills to succceed. It is better than drafting players who do not have the skills to be all pro players. There was that one incident. His talent outweighs that. Ravens need feared game changers!! Ravens have not found  any truly elite feared players recently except for KO. And Ngata before that. Ravens will not be a playoff contender much less championship without building block players. Is he any more risk than a bust like Elam or Upshaw?? Or Buckner/Hargreaves?? AT Least he has the skills to succeed. If he shows well in interviews ravens should draft him in my opinion. Even Von Miller was having drama. I would not be surprised if Broncos made a move to get him and he becomes a monster. Elway pulls strings for impact players. Not hope one falls to his lap.

[numerounopapi]

To be honest.... I love your thinking, but unfortunately it's not a reality BECAUSE I think Ramsey goes #1 to TN. Now in your dream scenario I would be all green lights for trading up to draft Ramsey.

[usmccharles]

42 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Why are we discussing his brother?? There was one incident. He has not failed any drug tests. And his production will come. Many elite sack  producers did not have impressive college stats. You can coach technique. You can not coach his talent. He is some risk as is any player. At least he has the skills to succceed. It is better than drafting players who do not have the skills to be all pro players. There was that one incident. His talent outweighs that. Ravens need feared game changers!! Ravens have not found  any truly elite feared players recently except for KO. And Ngata before that. Ravens will not be a playoff contender much less championship without building block players. Is he any more risk than a bust like Elam or Upshaw?? Or Buckner/Hargreaves?? AT Least he has the skills to succeed. If he shows well in interviews ravens should draft him in my opinion. Even Von Miller was having drama. I would not be surprised if Broncos made a move to get him and he becomes a monster. Elway pulls strings for impact players. Not hope one falls to his lap.

The fact that him and his brother are in a lawsuit because they beat some kid unconscious is...how do you say this, alarming.  Him and his brother are clearly not a good combo and like the good coach herm Edwards said: If you think they act dumb now, what makes you think they will act any better after you give them millions of dollars. 

Then there is the weed. Not a big deal to me, but he comes in right away with a possible suspension. 

Is Nkem more of a risk than Elam, Upshaw, VH3, Buckner? Absolutely.  Von Miller had traffic violations if I remember correctly, hardly the same.  Problem is, no matter how talented Nkem is, if he isn't on the field it does no good. 

I've stated before, im with you on him as far as taking a chance, but you cant ignore the possible issues, don't be clouded by his talent.  I worry mainly about his work ethic. 

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, Winchester said:

Why are we discussing his brother?? There was one incident. He has not failed any drug tests. And his production will come. Many elite sack  producers did not have impressive college stats. You can coach technique. You can not coach his talent. He is some risk as is any player. At least he has the skills to succceed. It is better than drafting players who do not have the skills to be all pro players. There was that one incident. His talent outweighs that. Ravens need feared game changers!! Ravens have not found  any truly elite feared players recently except for KO. And Ngata before that. Ravens will not be a playoff contender much less championship without building block players. Is he any more risk than a bust like Elam or Upshaw?? Or Buckner/Hargreaves?? AT Least he has the skills to succeed. If he shows well in interviews ravens should draft him in my opinion. Even Von Miller was having drama. I would not be surprised if Broncos made a move to get him and he becomes a monster. Elway pulls strings for impact players. Not hope one falls to his lap.

His brother may be even more of a head case than him and nkemdiche is on record saying his brother will be with him where ever he goes, so there's a bad influence he will have with him all the time. There was one incident we heard of, plus the lawsuit that was brought up by someone before me. He tried to throw his teammate under the bus to downplay his stupid incident. He is known as a weedhead. His interviews did not check out well, it would be a unanimous resounding "hell no" based on interviews alone with the common review being "came off as extremely self centered, arrogant, and entitled". He is immature. He is lazy. And he could be a suspension waiting to happen, he is a drinker, a partier, he's rumored to be a smoker, and he comes off like an ignorant brat in interviews. 

 

No amount of talent would make me want nkemdiche with anything more than a 3rd. I Don't believe he will make it through his entire rookie contract, if he does he will be bouncing around teams in between suspensions. 

 

And you can coach technique, but you can't coach vision, which he severely lacks.

[Winchester]

1 hour ago, usmccharles said:

The fact that him and his brother are in a lawsuit because they beat some kid unconscious is...how do you say this, alarming.  Him and his brother are clearly not a good combo and like the good coach herm Edwards said: If you think they act dumb now, what makes you think they will act any better after you give them millions of dollars. 

Then there is the weed. Not a big deal to me, but he comes in right away with a possible suspension. 

Is Nkem more of a risk than Elam, Upshaw, VH3, Buckner? Absolutely.  Von Miller had traffic violations if I remember correctly, hardly the same.  Problem is, no matter how talented Nkem is, if he isn't on the field it does no good. 

I've stated before, im with you on him as far as taking a chance, but you cant ignore the possible issues, don't be clouded by his talent.  I worry mainly about his work ethic. 

I totally agree. The work ethic he runs with is what is important for him. If he works hard then the personality flaws are no big deal. As long as he will not cross to Greg Hardy territory. I heard about the fight but did not seem that severe. The accident should not determine his overall character. Sometimes people just get in bad situations. I mentioned the interviews are important for how he comes off. Partying and drinking is not a bad thing if he works and is dedicated to his job. But if he us stupid and can not separate the partying from work then that is a prob I acknowledge. But he is young and could mature.

[usmccharles]

2 minutes ago, Winchester said:

I totally agree. The work ethic he runs with is what is important for him. If he works hard then the personality flaws are no big deal. As long as he will not cross to Greg Hardy territory. I heard about the fight but did not seem that severe. The accident should not determine his overall character. Sometimes people just get in bad situations. I mentioned the interviews are important for how he comes off. Partying and drinking is not a bad thing if he works and is dedicated to his job. But if he us stupid and can not separate the partying from work then that is a prob I acknowledge. But he is young and could mature.

I think his personality could still be a huge flaw, just because he works hard doesn't mean anything.  Im sure Hernandez worked pretty damn hard, just an example as im not comparing Nkem to a murderer. 

Him and his brother beating the crap out of a guy to where he is unconscious to me shows quite a bit of character flaws, granted we don't know exactly what happened.  But if he gets found guilty or is convicted of assault, isn't that a suspension right there?   http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/ole-misss-denzel-and-robert-nkemdiche-sued-for-2-million-allegedly-knocked-out-stomped-man-at-party-021814

I have no issues with someone partying if they do their job.  Hell, I party pretty damn hard but ive never been late or called in.  Gronk is a good example of someone who can do both. 

Funny you stated about the Broncos getting him, walterfootball's latest mock has them taking him.  That line could be a monster. 

 

[Halshayeji]

18 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

You said the key word to contradict yourself. He's a football player. He's gonna make an impact regardless of system. And you don't draft around the scheme, you draft good players and put them on the field in a role they fit at. If bosa slides in on 34 formations and kicks out to 5tech in nickel, or if he's at 5tech and dumervil or suggs is lined up in a 9wide then you are putting your best guys on the field and with bosa in that role it's a very disruptive front. 

 

Bosa would be right at home here in Baltimore and if he is a moving piece then it just gives us more diverse looks to play with. Pees is a genius with the front seven even if his secondary schemes are questionable, he would let bosa wreak havoc.

Oh don't get me wrong. If we draft bosa il throw a party. I just thought it was hillarious to say he'd be "useless"

[usmccharles]

26 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

Oh don't get me wrong. If we draft bosa il throw a party. I just thought it was hillarious to say he'd be "useless"

who said he would be useless?

 

[Tru11]

would cost way to much and tunsil about the only guy who might be worth it.

[JoeyFlex5]

33 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

who said he would be useless?

 

The board exaggerator, cillmatic, of course.

[Winchester]

1 hour ago, usmccharles said:

I think his personality could still be a huge flaw, just because he works hard doesn't mean anything.  Im sure Hernandez worked pretty damn hard, just an example as im not comparing Nkem to a murderer. 

Him and his brother beating the crap out of a guy to where he is unconscious to me shows quite a bit of character flaws, granted we don't know exactly what happened.  But if he gets found guilty or is convicted of assault, isn't that a suspension right there?   http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/ole-misss-denzel-and-robert-nkemdiche-sued-for-2-million-allegedly-knocked-out-stomped-man-at-party-021814

I have no issues with someone partying if they do their job.  Hell, I party pretty damn hard but ive never been late or called in.  Gronk is a good example of someone who can do both. 

Funny you stated about the Broncos getting him, walterfootball's latest mock has them taking him.  That line could be a monster. 

 

Actually I just watched some of Stanley's game with my nephew and talked to somebody familiar with miss. And it's recruits. I'm impressed with Stanley. I think he is now a better raw natural talent than Tunsil. Plays smarter and has more natural strength before bulking up in the nfl. And very similar athlete. However I learned from a source I completely trust that Tunsil and Nkemdiche have more drama. Both

 

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

His brother may be even more of a head case than him and nkemdiche is on record saying his brother will be with him where ever he goes, so there's a bad influence he will have with him all the time. There was one incident we heard of, plus the lawsuit that was brought up by someone before me. He tried to throw his teammate under the bus to downplay his stupid incident. He is known as a weedhead. His interviews did not check out well, it would be a unanimous resounding "hell no" based on interviews alone with the common review being "came off as extremely self centered, arrogant, and entitled". He is immature. He is lazy. And he could be a suspension waiting to happen, he is a drinker, a partier, he's rumored to be a smoker, and he comes off like an ignorant brat in interviews. 

 

No amount of talent would make me want nkemdiche with anything more than a 3rd. I Don't believe he will make it through his entire rookie contract, if he does he will be bouncing around teams in between suspensions. 

 

And you can coach technique, but you can't coach vision, which he severely lacks.

are rocked up with roids. When I look at their play, how leg drive is generated and what muscles are recruited to produce shock from hands and look at their physique and which muscles show development I should of saw it before!! Stanley uses technique and movement to run block. And is as effective as Tunsil without the extra muscle from the juice. When Ron Stanley gets some time in an nfl weight room he is going to be better than Tunsil. His raw skill is better than Dbrickashaw and similar to Clady or very close. If he hits an nfl weight room hard and works on movement skills he could be better than Clady who coasted on raw skill. Whereas Tunsil is maxed out and as strong as he is ever going to play. Stanley can get much stronger yet his strength while room to get better is underrated. He pushed Leonard Williams around and stoned his bullrush. I would take Ron Stanley before Clady and would be a solid pick at 6 or better yet trading back to8 picking up an additional round2 then picking up Ron Stanley with 2 round2 picks to fill voids at receiver lb edge rusher  or dline. Maybe even trading up for Spence in late round 1 with pick 36 and the tandem of round4 picks. Then Deion Jones or Shepherd in round2.

[usmccharles]

2 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Actually I just watched some of Stanley's game with my nephew and talked to somebody familiar with miss. And it's recruits. I'm impressed with Stanley. I think he is now a better raw natural talent than Tunsil. Plays smarter and has more natural strength before bulking up in the nfl. And very similar athlete. However I learned from a source I completely trust that Tunsil and Nkemdiche have more drama. Both

 

are rocked up with roids. When I look at their play, how leg drive is generated and what muscles are recruited to produce shock from hands and look at their physique and which muscles show development I should of saw it before!! Stanley uses technique and movement to run block. And is as effective as Tunsil without the extra muscle from the juice. When Ron Stanley gets some time in an nfl weight room he is going to be better than Tunsil. His raw skill is better than Dbrickashaw and similar to Clady or very close. If he hits an nfl weight room hard and works on movement skills he could be better than Clady who coasted on raw skill. Whereas Tunsil is maxed out and as strong as he is ever going to play. Stanley can get much stronger yet his strength while room to get better is underrated. He pushed Leonard Williams around and stoned his bullrush. I would take Ron Stanley before Clady and would be a solid pick at 6 or better yet trading back to8 picking up an additional round2 then picking up Ron Stanley with 2 round2 picks to fill voids at receiver lb edge rusher  or dline. Maybe even trading up for Spence in late round 1 with pick 36 and the tandem of round4 picks. Then Deion Jones or Shepherd in round2.

Are you saying your 'source' said both the Nkem brothers are on steroids? 

[Winchester]

1 minute ago, usmccharles said:

Are you saying your 'source' said both the Nkem brothers are on steroids? 

Yep as is tunsil. I believe it completely and should of seen it before!!

[usmccharles]

1 minute ago, Winchester said:

Yep as is tunsil. I believe it completely and should of seen it before!!

So your saying Tunsil and Nkem are juicing?

[Winchester]

5 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

So your saying Tunsil and Nkem are juicing?

Let's just run with in my opinion Ron Stanley is the better pick and will be the better player in the nfl.  And ravens will be getting a steal picking him after Tunsil. And will really get a steal if trade down and pick up an extra round2 pick while snagging Ron Stanley!! And in my opinion Jensen will be a pro bowl caliber guard and form a formidable  left side of the Oline!! While Urschel completes acclimation to center.

[usmccharles]

5 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Let's just run with in my opinion Ron Stanley is the better pick and will be the better player in the nfl.  And ravens will be getting a steal picking him after Tunsil. And will really get a steal if trade down and pick up an extra round2 pick while snagging Ron Stanley!! And in my opinion Jensen will be a pro bowl caliber guard and form a formidable  left side of the Oline!! While Urschel completes acclimation to center.

Man im confused.  You used to be all about Tunsil being the big alpha male in this draft, now its Stanley? And that's because Tunsil is on steroids?

[JoeyFlex5]

Yeah man I thought you supported steroid use... Like I distinctly recall you saying if you were a gm who drafted a certain prospect you would put them on steroids to bulk up for the NFL...

[Winchester]

17 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Yeah man I thought you supported steroid use... Like I distinctly recall you saying if you were a gm who drafted a certain prospect you would put them on steroids to bulk up for the NFL...

Think about it. 

 

24 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Man im confused.  You used to be all about Tunsil being the big alpha male in this draft, now its Stanley? And that's because Tunsil is on steroids?

 

[Winchester]

6 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Yeah man I thought you supported steroid use... Like I distinctly recall you saying if you were a gm who drafted a certain prospect you would put them on steroids to bulk up for the NFL...

It's about his ceiling dude. If he is ALREADY juicing then he is not getting any more  dominant at power blocking or any more explosive off the ball. Whereas Stanley will get stronger and better as he hits an nfl strength training program.

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, Winchester said:

It's about his ceiling dude. If he is ALREADY juicing then he is not getting any more  dominant at power blocking or any more explosive off the ball. Whereas Stanley will get stronger and better as he hits an nfl strength training program.

Not if he lacks the desire to be great which is rumored and wouldn't shock anyone if it proved to be true. He plays nonchalant and he has narrow set shoulders and far more body fat than you want to see in a top 10 OT. If he was dedicated he would be stronger and tighter because hed put in his dues in the weight room. I used to be all about Stanley but I always thought he seemed to be low effort and careless and then the rumors began and I feel like it just confirmed my thoughts.