Flex's Mock, again.

[JoeyFlex5]

I'm not sure buckner is a 10 sack guy

I think he may be able to hit 8 on a hot year with the secondary and edge rush playing well. Otherwise I think he maxes out at 6 a year but he could also be a double digit swat guy and could probably force fumbles on his sacks because of his reach and the impact he brings.

[Jacquouille]

He hit 10,5 while still having to learn a lot about pass rush, that's pretty promising!

Again, with Williams and Jernigan (who is poised to break out next year given how he ended this year) he's going to have a ton of 1on1, so 8 sacks isn't too much in that case imo.

[GrimCoconut]

15 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

He hit 10,5 while still having to learn a lot about pass rush, that's pretty promising!

Again, with Williams and Jernigan (who is poised to break out next year given how he ended this year) he's going to have a ton of 1on1, so 8 sacks isn't too much in that case imo.

College vs Pro ball

[Jacquouille]

2 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

College vs Pro ball

Floor in College vs Ceiling in Pro

[GrimCoconut]

1 minute ago, Jacquouille said:

Floor in College vs Ceiling in Pro

Right, but bottom line is college competition is vastly different compared to professional ball. 

[Jacquouille]

4 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Right, but bottom line is college competition is vastly different compared to professional ball. 

I know, but you have to start with something. Buckner penetrated with such ease in the opponent backfield when he had 1on1 matchups, even against the best guards (albeit, in college football), that if Jernigan and Williams can at least give him 10 matchups like these per games, it would need a top tier OG to stop him from putting his name on the stat sheet.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Jacquouille

[rmw10]

32 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

He hit 10,5 while still having to learn a lot about pass rush, that's pretty promising!

Again, with Williams and Jernigan (who is poised to break out next year given how he ended this year) he's going to have a ton of 1on1, so 8 sacks isn't too much in that case imo.

Upshaw had 9.5 in his last season at Alabama. He has 5 in his NFL career. 

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, Jacquouille said:

He hit 10,5 while still having to learn a lot about pass rush, that's pretty promising!

He was playing the Pac 12. Not exactly an offensive line factory up there.

[Jacquouille]

He was also in a system that didn't allo for much pass rush at his position if you want to go this way. But alright, take away the numbers if you want, my argument is still the same. And I actually don't care if he gets 2 sacks a season. If he can get the pressure and force the QB that's all I need. To me Canty was a non factor and we need a Malik Jackson/Dereck Wolf/Calais Campbell/Jurell Casey of our own if we want to take our pass rush to the next step, not just adding one or two OLB. 

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

Floor in College vs Ceiling in Pro

Facing NFL guards with his tendency to play high will have him abandoning the rush and shuffling to try to clog throwing lanes, something he already does against weak line competition

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, Jacquouille said:

He was also in a system that didn't allo for much pass rush at his position if you want to go this way. But alright, take away the numbers if you want, my argument is still the same. And I actually don't care if he gets 2 sacks a season. If he can get the pressure and force the QB that's all I need. To me Canty was a non factor and we need a Malik Jackson/Dereck Wolf/Calais Campbell/Jurell Casey of our own if we want to take our pass rush to the next step, not just adding one or two OLB. 

I agree, but to be honest I think a trade up for A falling a'shawn Robinson or dodf nabbing Bullard in the second can more than suffice, maybe even be A better move. 

 

Leverage for linemen is no small matter, it often becomes the reason that the specimen prospects fail at the next level. Not saying Buckner will, just saying he will have his moments where he disappears in the pass rush probably more than any dl prospect in the first round

[RavensDieHard21]

9 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

Cheers!

 

(but maybe not +10 sacks, if he gets 8-10 I'd be very happy)

Realistically 6- 10 ball park, but could get near 10 if his teammates garner more attention often leaving him in one on one situations haha

[RavensDieHard21]

8 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I'm not sure buckner is a 10 sack guy

I think he may be able to hit 8 on a hot year with the secondary and edge rush playing well. Otherwise I think he maxes out at 6 a year but he could also be a double digit swat guy and could probably force fumbles on his sacks because of his reach and the impact he brings.

Hey! Even 6 sacks from Buckner as an interior lineman along with perhaps another 5-6 from Jernigan and hopefully another 4-5 from Williams, that is pretty promising production if you factor in our edge rushers getting 1 on 1 match ups with tackles and in some instances TEs lol 

[RavensDieHard21]

7 hours ago, rmw10 said:

Upshaw had 9.5 in his last season at Alabama. He has 5 in his NFL career. 

Ya but anyone that watched Upshaw knew that if he didn't develop better pass rushing moves and improved his technique that the bull rush would not work the same against savvy LTs and RTs who expect it every time.

[Jacquouille]

I think if we don't take Buckner I probably wouldn't take any DL in the draft. I'd take Buckner because he's a team changer, but otherwise I'm good with what we already have.

 

And I'm not taking A'Shawn Robinson, he's a liability in the pass rush.

[JoeyFlex5]

4 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

I think if we don't take Buckner I probably wouldn't take any DL in the draft. I'd take Buckner because he's a team changer, but otherwise I'm good with what we already have.

 

And I'm not taking A'Shawn Robinson, he's a liability in the pass rush.

If we got him in the 2nd hes BPA lol. He isn't a liability in the pass rush he just needs work. First thing I thought when I watched ashawn on film was jernigan, they are very similar players.

[rmw10]

7 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Ya but anyone that watched Upshaw knew that if he didn't develop better pass rushing moves and improved his technique that the bull rush would not work the same against savvy LTs and RTs who expect it every time.

Just pointing out the flaws in saying sack numbers in college will translate to the NFL. 

[Jacquouille]

50 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

If we got him in the 2nd hes BPA lol. He isn't a liability in the pass rush he just needs work. First thing I thought when I watched ashawn on film was jernigan, they are very similar players.

Yeah, I really don't like him, except if we need someone to relace B Williams next year, because to me he's more BW than Timmy. I've already said that Guy is flying under the radar and will have a great year as a starter, so if we don't take Buckner at 6, he's my GUY *padum tss* I'm off laughing at my own joke thank you bye!

[JoeyFlex5]

31 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Yeah, I really don't like him, except if we need someone to relace B Williams next year, because to me he's more BW than Timmy. I've already said that Guy is flying under the radar and will have a great year as a starter, so if we don't take Buckner at 6, he's my GUY *padum tss* I'm off laughing at my own joke thank you bye!

I think bwill is a better NT because he has a much more powerful anchor at the 0tech. But Robinson is a lot lighter on his feet and can shuffle around to slip into the pocket after he gets some initial push. We could certainly do better but I would be very happy with him in the 2nd. I would love to see Bullard or butler at the 3 tech for us because I think they may be the most disruptive dts in the class after nkemdiche but they don't lack the awareness that nkemdiche does.

[Jacquouille]

5 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I think bwill is a better NT because he has a much more powerful anchor at the 0tech. But Robinson is a lot lighter on his feet and can shuffle around to slip into the pocket after he gets some initial push. We could certainly do better but I would be very happy with him in the 2nd. I would love to see Bullard or butler at the 3 tech for us because I think they may be the most disruptive dts in the class after nkemdiche but they don't lack the awareness that nkemdiche does.

I think awareness was among Butler's biggest concerns in the reports that I read (didn't study his tape very much myself).

 

Also I'm beggining to like that VHIII-Calhoun combo. Not the flashiest but very smart if there is no faller. I think Calhoun will be a better player as an OLB, and would be a perfect speed rusher alongside ZDS as the more powerful guy.

[Winchester]

13 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I think bwill is a better NT because he has a much more powerful anchor at the 0tech. But Robinson is a lot lighter on his feet and can shuffle around to slip into the pocket after he gets some initial push. We could certainly do better but I would be very happy with him in the 2nd. I would love to see Bullard or butler at the 3 tech for us because I think they may be the most disruptive dts in the class after nkemdiche but they don't lack the awareness that nkemdiche does.

In my opinion dude there is one tackle or 3tech in this draft. Nkemdiche!! There is him then there is all the rest!! He is the pretty girl that stands out. I agree about butler being disruptive but the difference in he and Rob Nkemdiche  is immense!!  Ravens need to pull some strings and get back into round1 top 20 to grab that wrecking ball.

[usmccharles]

11 minutes ago, Winchester said:

In my opinion dude there is one tackle or 3tech in this draft. Nkemdiche!! There is him then there is all the rest!! He is the pretty girl that stands out. I agree about butler being disruptive but the difference in he and Rob Nkemdiche  is immense!!  Ravens need to pull some strings and get back into round1 top 20 to grab that wrecking ball.

I am willing to bet that Rex takes him. 

[JoeyFlex5]

19 minutes ago, Winchester said:

In my opinion dude there is one tackle or 3tech in this draft. Nkemdiche!! There is him then there is all the rest!! He is the pretty girl that stands out. I agree about butler being disruptive but the difference in he and Rob Nkemdiche  is immense!!  Ravens need to pull some strings and get back into round1 top 20 to grab that wrecking ball.

He won't be disrupting anything but his income flow when he is suspended every year. Dude is an absolute headcase and an idiot.

[RavensDieHard21]

On 3/31/2016 at 7:56 AM, rmw10 said:

Just pointing out the flaws in saying sack numbers in college will translate to the NFL. 

I gotcha, a lot of the time people just assume they  will translate over, but it all depends on so many factors, such as the team they played on and who their competition was. For me, I see a common trend in safe transitional pass rushers from college to the pros. With project players who have supreme athleticism put aside, I feel that if those players who produce in college have high motors, great instincts, and have either some array of pass rushing moves /know how to use their hands to disengage blockers, then they will smoothly come into the league and live up to expectations fast. typically the busts or players that don't live up to their billing lack at least one of these characteristics, if not, two of them. many college players thrive on pure bull rushes or speed to overwhelm their blockers and when they get into the NFL and realize that they need more than that, they then kinda don't live up to their hype.