Biggest steals/Biggest Busts

[rmw10]

27 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

I never claimed that Floyd is as good a prospect. I simply said he had the potential to be as good. And worst case scenario he's as good as Doomerville. Von Miller himself wouldn't have been a great 4-3 rusher coming out of college.

Im not as concerned about his size because he's not horrible, he just needs a little work and coaching.

I think you're getting way too carried away.  Again, coming from someone who actually likes Floyd (but doesn't know where to play him), there's no way he can be as good as Miller.  Miller is a generational player.  Floyd is a tough case.  To me at least, there's no way he can be a full time edge guy with his frame.  He'll have to play a myriad of roles and be schemed to make some plays at times.  I think he can be a very good player, but a ceiling of Miller is completely out of the question.  Like BmoreBird said, I'd look at him as more of a Jamie Collins type of guy.  It's not a bad thing by any means, but it's certainly not Miller.

[Halshayeji]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

1) He rushed a lot and 2) The reason you don't see him on the ball and rushing all the time is because he isn't built to be an on ball linebacker/defensive end. He's too small and is done when he gets engaged and locked up by an offensive lineman. He is the epitome of an off ball linebacker.

As for floor, we're looking at Mingo/Jordan. Ceiling, probably Jamie Collins.

No he didn't rush a lot. He was listed as an  OLB not a DE. He rarely ever rushed from the outside with a 5 man rush, and when he did he's almost always the first guy to the QB. Just look at his film. It's like everyone is on slow motion and he's full speed.

Just to be clear, there's a huge difference between 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB. Gorgia weren't going to change their scheme for 1 player because theyv been recruiting 4-3 for years. 

The ideal weight for a 4-3 DE is 275-285 while the ideal size for a 3-4 OLB is 250-260. The taller the better of course.

Suggs is one of the bulkier OLB in the NFL and he's at 265. Von Miller is 255 and so was A.Smith. Floyd weighed in at 245 so he really not undersized. Yes 10 more pounds would put him in the perfect zone but it's not like he's getting pushed around.

If you insist his floor is Mingo then il still gladly take him. The biggest knock on Mingo is that the Browns drafted him.

[Halshayeji]

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

I think you're getting way too carried away.  Again, coming from someone who actually likes Floyd (but doesn't know where to play him), there's no way he can be as good as Miller.  Miller is a generational player.  Floyd is a tough case.  To me at least, there's no way he can be a full time edge guy with his frame.  He'll have to play a myriad of roles and be schemed to make some plays at times.  I think he can be a very good player, but a ceiling of Miller is completely out of the question.  Like BmoreBird said, I'd look at him as more of a Jamie Collins type of guy.  It's not a bad thing by any means, but it's certainly not Miller.

That's fair. you probably notinced by now. I really like the guy and if we move back I hope he's our guy

Edited March 27, 2016 by Halshayeji

[rmw10]

9 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

No he didn't rush a lot. He was listed as an  OLB not a DE. He rarely ever rushed from the outside with a 5 man rush, and when he did he's almost always the first guy to the QB. Just look at his film. It's like everyone is on slow motion and he's full speed.

Just to be clear, there's a huge difference between 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB. Gorgia weren't going to change their scheme for 1 player because theyv been recruiting 4-3 for years. 

The ideal weight for a 4-3 DE is 275-285 while the ideal size for a 3-4 OLB is 250-260. The taller the better of course.

Suggs is one of the bulkier OLB in the NFL and he's at 265. Von Miller is 255 and so was A.Smith. Floyd weighed in at 245 so he really not undersized. Yes 10 more pounds would put him in the perfect zone but it's not like he's getting pushed around.

If you insist his floor is Mingo then il still gladly take him. The biggest knock on Mingo is that the Browns drafted him.f

That's just not true.  Mingo has been a colossal bust in regards to his draft position.  Never had the size or strength to make much of an impact.

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, Halshayeji said:

No he didn't rush a lot. He was listed as an  OLB not a DE. He rarely ever rushed from the outside with a 5 man rush, and when he did he's almost always the first guy to the QB. Just look at his film. It's like everyone is on slow motion and he's full speed.

Just to be clear, there's a huge difference between 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB. Gorgia weren't going to change their scheme for 1 player because theyv been recruiting 4-3 for years. 

The ideal weight for a 4-3 DE is 275-285 while the ideal size for a 3-4 OLB is 250-260. The taller the better of course.

Suggs is one of the bulkier OLB in the NFL and he's at 265. Von Miller is 255 and so was A.Smith. Floyd weighed in at 245 so he really not undersized. Yes 10 more pounds would put him in the perfect zone but it's not like he's getting pushed around.

If you insist his floor is Mingo then il still gladly take him. The biggest knock on Mingo is that the Browns drafted him.

You act like an outside linebacker can't rush a pretty fair amount (Mack and Miller were 4-3 OLB's at some point in their career). Sure, he wasn't doing it on every down, but he did it enough to give you an idea of his ability to rush. 

Yeah, he's fast (and played at under 230), but that's what he has at the collegiate level. 

Sure, there is a big difference BUT it was their choice to use him the way they did and to recruit him in the first place. They didn't have to extend an offer if they didn't think he could work.

The taller the better for a defensive end, sure, but for an outside linebacker in the 3-4, no. The taller you are, the more it can limit that natural bend and leverage, which is an issue. And to be clear, your weights are off. An article last year found the average projected starting defensive end weight in the 4-3 was 269 with the Falcons bringing that average up with a 292 average. Most teams were under that 269 and fell right about 265ish. Obviously, it varies by team and their preference, but 285 isn't prototypical, at all. In fact, other than Atlanta, I don't think a single team broke 275.

He certainly was getting locked out in college, but you seem to ignore the fact that Floyd is TALL. Just spewing out weights means nothing because their body types are different. Again, he looks rail thin, even at a bigger weight, and at 24, there are going to be questions about how physically maxed out his body is.

And as rmw said, that's not true.

And I'm not even saying he's bad, but he's better suited to be an off ball linebacker and not worthy of 6 overall

Edited March 27, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[ravensdan]

To be clear my player comps aren't about floors and ceilings and I personally don't like those labels. As cossell always says these are prospects. When I say a player comp I mean just their style of play or maybe their role in the current team. That's why I threw out the Collins comp. not because he's a better player than mingo just maybe that his play style would fit what Floyd is. 

[Boddiebroadus]

Watch Floyds tape. That's all

[Halshayeji]

57 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

You act like an outside linebacker can't rush a pretty fair amount (Mack and Miller were 4-3 OLB's at some point in their career). Sure, he wasn't doing it on every down, but he did it enough to give you an idea of his ability to rush. 

Yeah, he's fast (and played at under 230), but that's what he has at the collegiate level. 

Sure, there is a big difference BUT it was their choice to use him the way they did and to recruit him in the first place. They didn't have to extend an offer if they didn't think he could work.

The taller the better for a defensive end, sure, but for an outside linebacker in the 3-4, no. The taller you are, the more it can limit that natural bend and leverage, which is an issue. And to be clear, your weights are off. An article last year found the average projected starting defensive end weight in the 4-3 was 269 with the Falcons bringing that average up with a 292 average. Most teams were under that 269 and fell right about 265ish. Obviously, it varies by team and their preference, but 285 isn't prototypical, at all. In fact, other than Atlanta, I don't think a single team broke 275.

He certainly was getting locked out in college, but you seem to ignore the fact that Floyd is TALL. Just spewing out weights means nothing because their body types are different. Again, he looks rail thin, even at a bigger weight, and at 24, there are going to be questions about how physically maxed out his body is.

And as rmw said, that's not true.

And I'm not even saying he's bad, but he's better suited to be an off ball linebacker and not worthy of 6 overall

 

Never said I'd take him 6th overall. I think he'll be the biggest steal if he falls to a team after 15. I wouldn't mind trading back and he's one of the reasons. That's all

[52520Andrew]

My Biggest steal: Kendall Fuller

My biggest potential busts: Spence, Stanley, Nkemdiche

[BmoreBird22]

18 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

 

Never said I'd take him 6th overall. I think he'll be the biggest steal if he falls to a team after 15. I wouldn't mind trading back and he's one of the reasons. That's all

I think he'll be better in the 4-3 than 3-4

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, ravensdan said:

To be clear my player comps aren't about floors and ceilings and I personally don't like those labels. As cossell always says these are prospects. When I say a player comp I mean just their style of play or maybe their role in the current team. That's why I threw out the Collins comp. not because he's a better player than mingo just maybe that his play style would fit what Floyd is. 

I think Collins is about as fair a comparison as it gets when you consider his college play style, but Deion Jordan is another very fair comparison because their college usage was very close.

[ALI624]

Busts: Stanley and Buckner(not a full bust, but will not be that great of a player.)

[LordRavens]

Bust:Buckner 

[thieverycorporation]

Steal- Shepard (wr)

          CJ. Prosise (rb)

Bust- Buckner (dl)

         

         

 

[trevorsteadman]

A steal I think might be Kevin Dodd. You look at his tape and he is a monster in the making. He might have the biggest upside in the draft. Problem is he hasn't played too much football and he is still very raw. I don't think the Ravens draft him after stating earlier in the preseason process they were done with project players. Project players are nice but when we still have Webb switching to safety, Perriman is still raw and needs technique, Waller switching to TE.... I see it tough to get a player who is still very raw. I love him game though and if he goes to a team with a decent D-line he will destroy everyone.

 

Bust I would say is Stanley. I know this one is overused but he is not dedicated to football. He admitted lack of dedication to the game. Which means he will never be that pro bowl/hall of fame guy. He could be a solid tackle in the league but I don't think he has anymore than what we would have with Ryan Jensen if we switched him to LT. And when we already have a guy named Urschel, who I love as a player, who has talked about balancing his math career with football... I could see both retiring in 5 years. I hope that is not the case for Urschel's sake because he has been a great player for us and has more to give in the next couple seasons but his situation does scare me a bit. 

[ALPHA]

23 hours ago, Boddiebroadus said:

Watch Floyds tape. That's all

Barkevious Mingo had similar play style and arguably better tape, but he lacked the functional strength to translate. 

As for Dodd I might have been his biggest fan here but looking back, his production came against college level right tackles on a stacked line. He has serious potential but probably a lower floor than I originally thought.

[RavensDieHard21]

On 3/27/2016 at 10:17 PM, Halshayeji said:

Floyd weighs what Von Miller came out of college weighing (245). Von measured almost identical combine numbers and gained 10 pounds without compromising his burst much. Floyd has longer reach and uses his hands wisely. The scheme Gorgia played really didn't do him any justice. he played 60-70 percent of the time as a OLB in a 4-3 system and DE 4-3 on passing downs.

 

You can't buy 6'6 245 pounds with a 4.6 40 and a 39 inch vertical. Fluid enough hips to run with TEs or drop in zone. I swear this guy could be something special. It's a matter of how much burst hell compromise but he's got so much to begin with that he can lose some and still be one of the quickest OLB in the NFL.

I love Floyd. I kinda wish we were drafting  in the middle to justify getting him because his upside is tremendous

[RavensDieHard21]

Steals: Alexander anywhere past the middle of the first, trade up scenario. his potential is scary as I watched every Clemson game this year and he was consistently clamped down on his man, he needs a few years still probably, but with his dedication, it will click for him and he will be a problem. 

- Dodd anywhere in the 20's, potential trade up prospect. His raw ability is great and in our system, he could be coached up as a monster on the edge, I don't think the championship game performance was a coincidence. 

- WJIII or Spence in the second.

- Beavers in the 4th or potentially the third

 Busts: Nkemdiche- he maybe stellar, but it will depend on his coaching and transition, his athleticism is off the charts the charts though

- Apple is so raw still, not really impressed 

- Stanley

To add to that, the players I think will be almost bust-proof as far as being meaningful contributors or stars at the next level are: 

Tunsil, Ramsey, Hargreaves, Bosa, Buckner, Jack, Lawson, Elliot

Edited March 28, 2016 by RavensDieHard21

[Maryland]

I may be homering here, but I'm sure others will homer with me.

Yannick Ngakoue would routinely beat future NFL OTs around the edge with his speed. Guys like Conklin and Scherff come to mind, both first-rounders (although Scherff became a G). Some folks have him as a 3rd round prospect, which seems pretty low for a guy who has gotten the best of some highly-rated prospects. He's a sure-fire steal if he falls to the 3rd round, although he probably will go mid-2nd. 

Edited March 29, 2016 by Maryland

[JoeyFlex5]

On 3/27/2016 at 3:19 PM, Halshayeji said:

 

Never said I'd take him 6th overall. I think he'll be the biggest steal if he falls to a team after 15. I wouldn't mind trading back and he's one of the reasons. That's all

Ngakoue makes some really dumb decisions on the field though. I wonder if he has it between the ears for the NFL. Watching him try to defend a rb screen is really cringeworthy

[Maryland]

Also Victor Ochi seems like he could develop into a good pass rusher. Good length and weight to be a 3-4 rush LB, and has speed you just can't teach (even though it didn't show up at the combine). He could bend around the edge better would be my main criticism. He lined up at DE and OLB at Stoney Brook from what I could tell in the only video of his on draftbreakdown. Was consistently the first one off the line. Reminds me of McPhee the way they moved him around. He would be a steal in the 4th round, which where I have seen him projected for the most part. Ravens FO puts a lot of value on players who perform highly at the Senior Bowl, so that's a plus for the Ravens to draft him  

Edited March 29, 2016 by Maryland

[usmccharles]

Some really good info in here, I like the right ups.  Im not very good at breaking down college players but I will through out my opinion

Steal: Kevin Dodd is someone I really like and he looks awesome on tape, with our coaching staff and having Doom and Suggs to teach him some things, I think he could be special. 

Bust: Now im sure I will get neg'd a lot here, but I just don't see Bosa producing to his draft spot.  It's just a hunch I have and if we draft him clearly I hope im wrong, but I just have an odd feeling that hes going to show flashes, but overall just kind of slowly fade to a disappointment. 

[JoeyFlex5]

another steal I'll put out there is Jonathan Bullard. That boy is a wrecking ball whos gonna fall due to being a tweener. On our team he could line up across from jernigan and we would have a tandem of pudgy, powerful, and nasty 3 techs who put even the best guards on their heels and make qbs play skiddish. 

 

Or he could go the mcphee route and lose 15 lbs and play OLB and do the same job as Upshaw but he is a lot more explosive and disruptive so he would likely bring more pass rush. 

 

Someone will take him in the 2nd and get an immediate fan favorite.

[Winchester]

Steals

Nkemdiche anywhere after mid round1

Demarcus Robinson

S Coleman

Deion Jones

 Michael Thomas anywhere after round1

Beavers

Busts

Buckner 

 Ogbah 

A.Robinson

 J Reed

 Treadwell will not be the best wr in draft

Some players I can't think of at the moment. Have not watched many players last week or so.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2016 by Winchester

[Valid1]

Tyler Boyd, Noah Spence, William Jackson III, Cyrus Jones, Yannick Ngakoue = Steals

 

Leonard Floyd, Eli Apple, Will Fuller, Michael Thomas = Busts

 

Ronnie Stanley, Deforrest Buckner, Reggie Ragland = Alright Starters who will get nowhere near living up to draft hype

[KBoum]

Why don't you like Michael Thomas ? I really really like how he gets out of his cuts it looks so natural and effortless

[RaineV1]

3 minutes ago, KBoum said:

Why don't you like Michael Thomas ? I really really like how he gets out of his cuts it looks so natural and effortless

He's a great athlete, but there's rumors that he doesn't put any time into studying the playbook and gets by purely on his athletic ability. WRs like that usually fail at the NFL level. Mind you, if the rumors aren't true, he'll probably be great at the next level.

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

He's a great athlete, but there's rumors that he doesn't put any time into studying the playbook and gets by purely on his athletic ability. WRs like that usually fail at the NFL level. Mind you, if the rumors aren't true, he'll probably be great at the next level.

He's the most pro ready receiver. And I recall the rumors and I'm concerned as well, but I've also heard rumors that teams have him as their top wr.

[Winchester]

5 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

He's the most pro ready receiver. And I recall the rumors and I'm concerned as well, but I've also heard rumors that teams have him as their top wr.

Many teams do have him as the top receiver. He will be drafted before treadwell. It is between he and Coleman for the top spot at receiver. Fuller is a wildcard if some team falls in love with his blazing speed. But for most part Thomas and Coleman could be drafted before Treadwell. Many players coast on talent in college. The ravens Maxx Williams coasted on natural talent in college. But like Maxx, Thomas has pride and will likely want to  work to be great in the nfl.  In my opinion he is similar to Devante Parker but is a more sudden and shifty route runner than parker who I believe  was drafted with pick 13 overall 

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, Winchester said:

Many teams do have him as the top receiver. He will be drafted before treadwell. It is between he and Coleman for the top spot at receiver. Fuller is a wildcard if some team falls in love with his blazing speed. But for most part Thomas and Coleman could be drafted before Treadwell. Many players coast on talent in college. The ravens Maxx Williams coasted on natural talent in college. But like Maxx, Thomas has pride and will likely want to  work to be great in the nfl.  In my opinion he is similar to Devante Parker but is a more sudden and shifty route runner than parker who I believe  was drafted with pick 13 overall 

Im intrigued on where Fuller goes.  He is pretty identical to Philip Dorsett when it comes to speed and has two inches on him.  I really want us to address a playmaker for the return game with good vision but seems to catch with his body a lot.  Anyone have projections where he could go?