BmoreBird22's Second Mock Draft

[Jacquouille]

At the same time, I also want to give Buck a real chance as a starter... 

Edit: Allen*

Edited March 30, 2016 by Jacquouille

[GrimCoconut]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Elliot because I think you can get a good corner (Apple, Fuller, Alexander) in the second round, but I don't think you'll get anyone close to Elliot in the second round. That's just the way I have to think about it and actually a big reason I don't think Buckner is the best pick- DL is STACKED this year.

Fair enough. Unlike Elliott, the top CB is very much debatable. I also wonder if Buckner is even the best DL in this class. I think Rankins or Vernon Butler could be better pros. I love Buckner's upside, though. He's a damn fine prospect.

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, GrimCoconut said:

Fair enough. Unlike Elliott, the top CB is very much debatable. I also wonder if Buckner is even the best DL in this class. I think Rankins or Vernon Butler could be better pros. I love Buckner's upside, though. He's a damn fine prospect.

You can see my reply to USC above for my thoughts on Buckner, but Rankins will probably be the one we look back and question why he didn't go higher. 

[GrimCoconut]

9 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

You can see my reply to USC above for my thoughts on Buckner, but Rankins will probably be the one we look back and question why he didn't go higher. 

Agreed. Yeah, I share similar concerns regarding Buckner. I love his potential and I see a high floor but I'm not convinced 100% he reaches his high ceiling. I'd need to gauge his football IQ and desire to be great. Not going to lie--the desire to be great is the single most important measurable for me with NFL draft prospects. I place a premium on any player exuding confidence and will to be great. It's a big reason I like a guy like Alexander and LB Elandon Roberts. 

I think Rankins could very well be the best DL prospect from this class. 

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Agreed. Yeah, I share similar concerns regarding Buckner. I love his potential and I see a high floor but I'm not convinced 100% he reaches his high ceiling. I'd need to gauge his football IQ and desire to be great. Not going to lie--the desire to be great is the single most important measurable for me with NFL draft prospects. I place a premium on any player exuding confidence and will to be great. It's a big reason I like a guy like Alexander and LB Elandon Roberts. 

I think Rankins could very well be the best DL prospect from this class. 

I think he's just too tall and that'll limit what he can do as a pass rusher from the inside.

Rankins reminds me of a junior Aaron Donald

[Jacquouille]

As of the football IQ, Buckner is great imo, he reads plays like a LB and acts in consequence. Very rarely is he caught out of surprise. It happenned, but I haven't seen it a lot. I haven't seen much of Rankins or Butler, but I can say he gets moved way less than them in the run game. He has more length and knows how to use it 

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, Jacquouille said:

As of the football IQ, Buckner is great imo, he reads plays like a LB and acts in consequence. Very rarely is he caught out of surprise. It happenned, but I haven't seen it a lot. I haven't seen much of Rankins or Butler, but I can say he gets moved way less than them in the run game. He has more length and knows how to use it 

But again, the concern for me is that Buckner is going to be a DT in sub packages or for a 4-3 team because he doesn't have the natural bend off the edge to be a defensive end in the 4-3. Then you run into the issue of not having natural leverage to be a 3T and he's likely going to be a 1T where he'll be asked to control gaps, hold up blockers, and just be a run defender, rather than a pass rusher and then value at 6 flies out the window with this being a strong defensive line class.

[JoeyFlex5]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

But again, the concern for me is that Buckner is going to be a DT in sub packages or for a 4-3 team because he doesn't have the natural bend off the edge to be a defensive end in the 4-3. Then you run into the issue of not having natural leverage to be a 3T and he's likely going to be a 1T where he'll be asked to control gaps, hold up blockers, and just be a run defender, rather than a pass rusher and then value at 6 flies out the window with this being a strong defensive line class.

And that is exactly my concern with. Buckner at 6. I love him as a prospect but I don't think he comes close to his ceiling because he lacks the ability to lean into his play, it's A mental thing that can't be coached, tall people have a mental block because if they lean they begin to fall and your body just stands up out of impulse. That's why I like bosa, it's rare to find someone as tall and powerful as him with NATURAL lean.

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, JoeyFlex5 said:

And that is exactly my concern with. Buckner at 6. I love him as a prospect but I don't think he comes close to his ceiling because he lacks the ability to lean into his play, it's A mental thing that can't be coached, tall people have a mental block because if they lean they begin to fall and your body just stands up out of impulse. That's why I like bosa, it's rare to find someone as tall and powerful as him with NATURAL lean.

I think Bosa will be better served in a 4-3 (although, with the amount of time spent in the nickel, it may not matter) because he has excellent lean, just not a natural bender around the edge at that height.

[GrimCoconut]

7 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

As of the football IQ, Buckner is great imo, he reads plays like a LB and acts in consequence. Very rarely is he caught out of surprise. It happenned, but I haven't seen it a lot. I haven't seen much of Rankins or Butler, but I can say he gets moved way less than them in the run game. He has more length and knows how to use it 

He looks smart on the field but I've seen guys like him before who looked to have a high football IQ only to deceive me as a pro. That's why I don't really touch on football IQ much unless I can be certain from watching interviews and stuff. 

If you haven't seen much of Butler and Rankins how can you say he gets moved less? 

5 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

But again, the concern for me is that Buckner is going to be a DT in sub packages or for a 4-3 team because he doesn't have the natural bend off the edge to be a defensive end in the 4-3. Then you run into the issue of not having natural leverage to be a 3T and he's likely going to be a 1T where he'll be asked to control gaps, hold up blockers, and just be a run defender, rather than a pass rusher and then value at 6 flies out the window with this being a strong defensive line class.

I like Buckner best as a 3-4 5T DE where his height is less an issue, and I also like him flexing out to play 4-3 DE. 

[BmoreBird22]

4 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

He looks smart on the field but I've seen guys like him before who looked to have a high football IQ only to deceive me as a pro. That's why I don't really touch on football IQ much unless I can be certain from watching interviews and stuff. 

If you haven't seen much of Butler and Rankins how can you say he gets moved less? 

I like Buckner best as a 3-4 5T DE where his height is less an issue, and I also like him flexing out to play 4-3 DE. 

I'm almost certain that a 3-4 team will take him to play him as a base 5T, but what happens when you go to sub packages? He just doesn't have an ideal fit as a pass rusher. He doesn't have that bend or speed to challenge the edge and he's got no natural leverage.

[JoeyFlex5]

7 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I think Bosa will be better served in a 4-3 (although, with the amount of time spent in the nickel, it may not matter) because he has excellent lean, just not a natural bender around the edge at that height.

And I absolutely agree which is why I still think he's a great fit for us because we like to mix up our fronts, bosa could be a great 5tech for us when we rush in a 34 front and he makes a great DE for our nickel packages and he crashes the line against the run from any position. 

Edited March 30, 2016 by JoeyFlex5

[BmoreBird22]

6 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

And I absolutely agree which is why I still think he's a great fit for us because we like to mix up our fronts, bosa could be a great 5tech for us when we rush in a 34 front and he makes a great DE for our nickel packages and he crashes the line against the run from any position. 

I really go back and forth on Bosa because I don't think he'll be an elite pass rusher, but rather just good, but I think he's so refined and will be an excellent run defender

[GrimCoconut]

19 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I really go back and forth on Bosa because I don't think he'll be an elite pass rusher, but rather just good, but I think he's so refined and will be an excellent run defender

Same here. I like what I see from Bosa in terms of his explosiveness and he comes around the edge well but doesn't have great bend; however, he looks like he can cover and looks good in run support. I like that. I also think he is a good prospect for this team since he can do a lot of what McPhee did for us in terms of applying interior pressure in the nickel in a 4-man front, but I also think he can play the edge in a 4-man front so Jernigan could play interior pass rusher at the 3T in the 4-man alignment, or we could have both rush from the interior with Suggs & Dumervil at the edges. 

That said, I just wonder if he can play 3-4 OLB effectively as a pass rusher. 

[ravensdan]

On March 30, 2016 at 3:29 AM, usmccharles said:

I think @52520Andrew makes some good points.  We found Forset in FA as a backup and he became a top 5 rusher, that didn't help us against the Pats keeping 2 14pt leads.  We also found Rice in the 2nd round. Of course there isn't a RB in later rounds that can do what Zeke can, as of right now, thats the key words.  There is always gems to found late, if people would of known what Rice was going to be you think he would of went in the second round? Nope. 

To say he could of possibly won us a lot of those 1 possession losses last year is kind of hedging your bet, you can also say if Suggs was in some of those games he could of done the same.  He is imo the best offensive talent in this draft and I think everyone would agree, but defense is just a bigger need issue imo. 

I wont lie, I would be excited to have him here, but when we give up late leads in the 4Q because our defense cant stop anyone, I will instantly think of us ignoring a key playmaker on defense side. 

 

I would argue our biggest "need" needs to be whichever player is going to provide the biggest impact. Regardless of position you take that player with a number 6 pick you can't afford to make any reaches. 

[ravensdan]

On March 30, 2016 at 11:59 AM, GrimCoconut said:

Same here. I like what I see from Bosa in terms of his explosiveness and he comes around the edge well but doesn't have great bend; however, he looks like he can cover and looks good in run support. I like that. I also think he is a good prospect for this team since he can do a lot of what McPhee did for us in terms of applying interior pressure in the nickel in a 4-man front, but I also think he can play the edge in a 4-man front so Jernigan could play interior pass rusher at the 3T in the 4-man alignment, or we could have both rush from the interior with Suggs & Dumervil at the edges. 

That said, I just wonder if he can play 3-4 OLB effectively as a pass rusher. 

 

I think it's possible he could model his game after Suggs. No way you can predict that kind of impact but he most certainly can be that kind of player and Suggs is right there to guide help refine his game even more. Exciting to me. 

 

Kind of how Steve Smith could have been the ideal mentor to Obj. 

[52520Andrew]

13 minutes ago, ravensdan said:

Kind of how Steve Smith could have been the ideal mentor to Obj. 

In hindsight I am kinda happy he didn't fall to us because we would have passed on him for Mosley and I don't think I could have handled that

[JoeyFlex5]

On 3/30/2016 at 11:36 AM, BmoreBird22 said:

I really go back and forth on Bosa because I don't think he'll be an elite pass rusher, but rather just good, but I think he's so refined and will be an excellent run defender

I 100% agree. While I was watching that draft I was just thinking "I'm glad my favorite players are off the board because id hate to see us take Mosley or HHCD instead" and then he took Mosley over HHCD and I was even mad about that lol. 

still kinda am, I think taking HHCD could have been the difference against the pats and it would have prevented the kendrick Lewis debacle and our team would overall be in a better spot right now.

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I 100% agree. While I was watching that draft I was just thinking "I'm glad my favorite players are off the board because id hate to see us take Mosley or HHCD instead" and then he took Mosley over HHCD and I was even mad about that lol. 

still kinda am, I think taking HHCD could have been the difference against the pats and it would have prevented the kendrick Lewis debacle and our team would overall be in a better spot right now.

HHCD to me has just shown a lot of inconsistencies where you think he's right on the cusp, but just hasn't gotten there, yet. I think, for now, Mosley is definitely the better pick.

And to be honest, I'm more than happy with Weddle for now.

[JoeyFlex5]

37 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

HHCD to me has just shown a lot of inconsistencies where you think he's right on the cusp, but just hasn't gotten there, yet. I think, for now, Mosley is definitely the better pick.

And to be honest, I'm more than happy with Weddle for now.

Mosley is definitely the better player but if we were to take HHCD I still think the defense would have been in a much better position these past 2 years, and we probably wouldn't have went 5-11 this year and we would be in perfect range to take ragland and we wouldn't have skipped a beat moving on from Daryl Smith. HHCD isn't the rangiest or flashiest FS but he's solid and smart, I think he's a ridiculous upgrade over Kendrick Lewis. 

 

But then again, nearly every team has a weak FS situation so it's not like we're way behind the standard there.

 

Im happy with Mosley but at the time I was frustrated because I thought Elam would have been in a better position and our team needed a FS desperately, and these days I wonder "what if"

[52520Andrew]

13 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

HHCD isn't the rangiest or flashiest FS but he's solid and smart, I think he's a ridiculous upgrade over Kendrick Lewis. 

Or........ Elam....

Edited April 1, 2016 by 52520Andrew

[usmccharles]

3 hours ago, ravensdan said:

 

I would argue our biggest "need" needs to be whichever player is going to provide the biggest impact. Regardless of position you take that player with a number 6 pick you can't afford to make any reaches. 

I basically agree with this, just saying i dont think Elliot is the biggest need at that point. 

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, 52520Andrew said:

Or........ Elam....

For sure. But we don't know yet, maybe if we had a real deal FS then Elam would have been decent in an attacking SS role. Putting him in coverage heavy roles was never a good idea

[Wildabeast88]

On March 29, 2016 at 8:01 PM, 52520Andrew said:

Well then argue the tape if you have seen these guys so much. I don't care if he is OROY, I don't like him at 6 and in a draft with not much else at the skill position players it would not surprise me one bit if Elliott is the ROY on offense(because let's face it, O-linemen get no respect when it comes to these awards). And even if Elliott wins OROY, guess what? So did Gurley last year. Gurley also made a Pro Bowl(kinda meaningless but still) and was named second team all pro at his position. And I should add that it was behind a pretty shaky O-line in St. Louis with Nick Foles/Case Keenum starting at QB.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000649235/article/afc-rbs-coach-compares-ezekiel-elliott-to-adrian-peterson. 

Just wanted to share been busy the last few. While I think Zeke is great I would still take Bosa due to the need for a pass rusher but he is a stud 

[52520Andrew]

7 hours ago, Wildabeast88 said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000649235/article/afc-rbs-coach-compares-ezekiel-elliott-to-adrian-peterson. 

Just wanted to share been busy the last few. While I think Zeke is great I would still take Bosa due to the need for a pass rusher but he is a stud 

I do like Bosa quite a bit so we are in agreement there. I just don't see a top tier RB in Elliott and that is the only way I take an RB this high.

[RaineV1]

On 3/30/2016 at 11:24 AM, GrimCoconut said:

He looks smart on the field but I've seen guys like him before who looked to have a high football IQ only to deceive me as a pro. That's why I don't really touch on football IQ much unless I can be certain from watching interviews and stuff. 

If you haven't seen much of Butler and Rankins how can you say he gets moved less? 

I like Buckner best as a 3-4 5T DE where his height is less an issue, and I also like him flexing out to play 4-3 DE. 

Yeah, i think Buckner would actually stay playing a DE in the nickle package.

[JoeyFlex5]

17 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

Yeah, i think Buckner would actually stay playing a DE in the nickle package.

I think so too. I like his odds of getting deep into the pocket facing a 6'7" OT compared to trying to bullrush a guard who's gonna get up under his pads with ease. 

[Wildabeast88]

2 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

I do like Bosa quite a bit so we are in agreement there. I just don't see a top tier RB in Elliott and that is the only way I take an RB this high.

Yeah pass rush is a must it helps the Front 7 as well as the DBs in the having to cover for less time and hopefully causing more turnovers and get us off th field in 3rd and longs more frequently. If here was a RB it would be Elliott I saw. Mock that had us taking Henry. no thanks Saban ruined his career last year 400 carries plus I have believed in the Forsett Allen combo and as much as I hate to say it an interview with Richardson blew my mind at how motivated he was so many those three should be enough. 

[jazz1988]

5 hours ago, Wildabeast88 said:

Yeah pass rush is a must it helps the Front 7 as well as the DBs in the having to cover for less time and hopefully causing more turnovers and get us off th field in 3rd and longs more frequently. If here was a RB it would be Elliott I saw. Mock that had us taking Henry. no thanks Saban ruined his career last year 400 carries plus I have believed in the Forsett Allen combo and as much as I hate to say it an interview with Richardson blew my mind at how motivated he was so many those three should be enough. 

 

Elliot has like 600  career carries which is more than Henry 400  career carries. If Henry situation is scary cause of  his career  carries than Elliot should be more scarier

[52520Andrew]

23 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

 

Elliot has like 600  career carries which is more than Henry 400  career carries. If Henry situation is scary cause of  his career  carries than Elliot should be more scarier

Henry got all those carries in one year though and most 400 carry backs struggle quite a bit the next season. Take a look at all the 2,000 yard rushers for instance in the NFL and how they did the following season.