BmoreBird22's Second Mock Draft

[52520Andrew]

56 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

So to be clear are you clamoring for Jack as the guy who Will make the biggest impact to our defensive problems? 

 

Because that's fine and all if he's there, but if he's not then it's a pretty hard plan to follow.

I am just saying I would not pass on Jack for Elliott if he is there. As long as we get one of Tunsil, Bosa, Ramsey, Jack(not likely one of these 4 is there but you never know), Buckner, or Hargreaves then I would be happy. Either that or get good value on a trade back. I could understand Elliott or Stanley being the picks but I wouldn't be a huge fan of either at 6, same with Lawson. 

[52520Andrew]

49 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

To be fair, last year the main component we were missing was McPhee. We just lost Upshaw so there are concerns on seeing the edge, and Daryl is now gone, but I don't think this defense is far from being a good defense again. That's three players. 

Granted I'll give you the fact that our guys are now two years older as well. 

One reason why Bosa being there at 6 would be so good. He would fill that role McPhee did and help keep Doom fresh on early downs. Groom him to be the future go to guy at OLB as well.

I don't think the defense is far off from being good but there are too many holes for just one player to fix everything. 

[GrimCoconut]

56 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

One reason why Bosa being there at 6 would be so good. He would fill that role McPhee did and help keep Doom fresh on early downs. Groom him to be the future go to guy at OLB as well.

I don't think the defense is far off from being good but there are too many holes for just one player to fix everything. 

Bosa would be a great pick because you throw him at LOLB so he can set the edge like Upshaw, but he can also pass rush like McPhee by staying at the edge, or moving inside so you have Dumervil, Suggs, & Bosa all coming at you at once. You can then use Dumervil behind Suggs at ROLB to keep both of them fresh. I think that's why I see Bosa as the best fit. FWIW, he's not my favorite guy honestly, and I do have concerns about him. He has a lot of potential but he could also be an average player in terms of sacks. It could go either way. If we do take Bosa, I think we should still look for an OLB. I would double-tap that position regardless in this draft since we need bodies there. 

I love me some Aaron Wallace and James Cowser as guys to be had later. I also like Tapper, but to a lesser extent because I wonder about his football brain. I also really like Ngakoue, but he has some instinct issues as well. 

[Willbacker]

4 hours ago, Tru11 said:

meh if he pans out i could see him more have an impact like willis/bowman had.

or a derrick johnson impact.

jacks brings a lot more range and coverage then dansby/daryl smith.

if he could be like willis running toe to toe with receivers down the field and run  side line to side line then you have 1 hell of player.

willis/bowman combo was to be feared and they where the heart of those niners defense that where a top 3 unit.
to me those defenses had even worse corners and safeties then what he have right now lel.

 

Exactly!! Willis/Bowman is a great comparison to a possible Mosley/Jack combo. We're in dire need of an ILB that can cover and play in space. Funny we lost Upshaw who I thought was a better coverage LB than passrusher lol. A Brown sure has been a big disappointment smh since his main schtick was to be a sideline to sideline defender with capabilities to defend the pass

3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

It's just hard to see them go defense if it isn't Ramsey, but hey, maybe they trade back and grab Lawson or Dodd.

I'd add Bosa and Jack to the list of defenders if they're available at 6 and I'd be pulling for a trade if not. There's a lot of CBs and DLinemen in this drfat to me that are comparable to Buckner and Hargraves. If we do stay at 6 with pisspoor offers Elliot is an intriguing option but I'm scared to draft a RB that high especially with a stable of backs that have promise and with Forsett still having 2 yrs on his deal. Priest Holmes/Jamal Lewis both about pretty equal imo. One drafted top 5 the other not at all. Plus we really need help on defense.

[52520Andrew]

16 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Bosa would be a great pick because you throw him at LOLB so he can set the edge like Upshaw, but he can also pass rush like McPhee by staying at the edge, or moving inside so you have Dumervil, Suggs, & Bosa all coming at you at once. You can then use Dumervil behind Suggs at ROLB to keep both of them fresh. I think that's why I see Bosa as the best fit. FWIW, he's not my favorite guy honestly, and I do have concerns about him. He has a lot of potential but he could also be an average player in terms of sacks. It could go either way. If we do take Bosa, I think we should still look for an OLB. I would double-tap that position regardless in this draft since we need bodies there. 

I love me some Aaron Wallace and James Cowser as guys to be had later. I also like Tapper, but to a lesser extent because I wonder about his football brain. I also really like Ngakoue, but he has some instinct issues as well. 

I feel like Bosa can at least be a very good pass rusher from the interior along with being a good run defender on the edge. I don't know if he can be a true OLB so someone who fits that role a bit more could be fun to have if the value is right.

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

I am just saying I would not pass on Jack for Elliott if he is there. As long as we get one of Tunsil, Bosa, Ramsey, Jack(not likely one of these 4 is there but you never know), Buckner, or Hargreaves then I would be happy. Either that or get good value on a trade back. I could understand Elliott or Stanley being the picks but I wouldn't be a huge fan of either at 6, same with Lawson. 

I'm of the same exact mindset, I just dont see one of the big 4 being there so I don't even get my hopes up and only discuss them in "if only" scenarios. 

 

I guess the difference here is that I see Elliott as a far better talent But equal value because of position, to guys like vh3 and buckner, so while I prefer those guys I wouldn't be upset with Elliott in the slightest, you seem like you would hate the pick lol

[JoeyFlex5]

On 3/29/2016 at 8:41 PM, GrimCoconut said:

Mosley can cover, though. No, he's not the best coverage LB out there, but the guy is not a run-stuffing  MLB. Mosley is capable of coverage. He had a bad year last year, but watching him in college, he could cover. He is more of a zone coverage LB, and he can do man sometimes but it depends on the player. He is better against RBs than he is TEs in man coverage. 

if you leave your ILB in coverage for 3+ seconds, youre gonna have a bad time. in the NFL, ILBs will get beaten in coverage when there is zero pass rush present and guys are running wild because your secondary doesnt hold up either.

[rmw10]

Well, you might be onto something...

 

Per Zrebiec:

@Eckard410 Good question. I've heard from people who think he'll have a hard time passing on Elliott if top D players go off before 6

[usmccharles]

If Browns pass on a QB and a take another top defensive guy off the board, I could see this happening.  So maybe if

Tunsil - Ramsey - Bosa - jack -  Buckner 

But that would still leave us VH3, just can't see the FO passing on the top cb.   

[BmoreBird22]

50 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Well, you might be onto something...

 

Per Zrebiec:

@Eckard410 Good question. I've heard from people who think he'll have a hard time passing on Elliott if top D players go off before 6

The reason it wouldn't even surprise me is they seemed to really want Gurley and Gordon last year.

[52520Andrew]

9 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I'm of the same exact mindset, I just dont see one of the big 4 being there so I don't even get my hopes up and only discuss them in "if only" scenarios. 

 

I guess the difference here is that I see Elliott as a far better talent But equal value because of position, to guys like vh3 and buckner, so while I prefer those guys I wouldn't be upset with Elliott in the slightest, you seem like you would hate the pick lol

I devalue the RB position more than most and I don't think a RB is worth it in the top 10 unless they have legitimate AP type potential. I also don't think Elliott is that good and while he should be a solid RB that should be around for a few years, I don't think this high pick is worth it on him as we can get most of the production we would get from him at a later pick. 

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, 52520Andrew said:

I devalue the RB position more than most and I don't think a RB is worth it in the top 10 unless they have legitimate AP type potential. I also don't think Elliott is that good and while he should be a solid RB that should be around for a few years, I don't think this high pick is worth it on him as we can get most of the production we would get from him at a later pick. 

I just can't agree with this mindset. The ravens do this all the time at important positions and it comes back to bite us, and in some cases A RB really can be of value. I think this is one of those cases. I don't see any RB in this draft that can bring what he does to the run game, and DEFINITELY no backs who bring what he brings on 3rd down and short yardage and goal line and general smarts to be a guy who the offense can depend on. 

 

I've said it a million times, zeke could have literally been the difference in every single 1 possession loss last year, his presence probably results in another 3 to 4 first downs every single week, our red zone conversion and 3rd down conversion goes up by a good amount with a guy like him. He could have the biggest impact on this team depending on how you look at it. There is no back in the later rounds or on the team who can do that. A true workhorse who brings a major impact and is reliable, is hard to find. 

[usmccharles]

18 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I just can't agree with this mindset. The ravens do this all the time at important positions and it comes back to bite us, and in some cases A RB really can be of value. I think this is one of those cases. I don't see any RB in this draft that can bring what he does to the run game, and DEFINITELY no backs who bring what he brings on 3rd down and short yardage and goal line and general smarts to be a guy who the offense can depend on. 

 

I've said it a million times, zeke could have literally been the difference in every single 1 possession loss last year, his presence probably results in another 3 to 4 first downs every single week, our red zone conversion and 3rd down conversion goes up by a good amount with a guy like him. He could have the biggest impact on this team depending on how you look at it. There is no back in the later rounds or on the team who can do that. A true workhorse who brings a major impact and is reliable, is hard to find. 

I think @52520Andrew makes some good points.  We found Forset in FA as a backup and he became a top 5 rusher, that didn't help us against the Pats keeping 2 14pt leads.  We also found Rice in the 2nd round. Of course there isn't a RB in later rounds that can do what Zeke can, as of right now, thats the key words.  There is always gems to found late, if people would of known what Rice was going to be you think he would of went in the second round? Nope. 

To say he could of possibly won us a lot of those 1 possession losses last year is kind of hedging your bet, you can also say if Suggs was in some of those games he could of done the same.  He is imo the best offensive talent in this draft and I think everyone would agree, but defense is just a bigger need issue imo. 

I wont lie, I would be excited to have him here, but when we give up late leads in the 4Q because our defense cant stop anyone, I will instantly think of us ignoring a key playmaker on defense side. 

[nishadrahman13]

35 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I just can't agree with this mindset. The ravens do this all the time at important positions and it comes back to bite us, and in some cases A RB really can be of value. I think this is one of those cases. I don't see any RB in this draft that can bring what he does to the run game, and DEFINITELY no backs who bring what he brings on 3rd down and short yardage and goal line and general smarts to be a guy who the offense can depend on. 

 

I've said it a million times, zeke could have literally been the difference in every single 1 possession loss last year, his presence probably results in another 3 to 4 first downs every single week, our red zone conversion and 3rd down conversion goes up by a good amount with a guy like him. He could have the biggest impact on this team depending on how you look at it. There is no back in the later rounds or on the team who can do that. A true workhorse who brings a major impact and is reliable, is hard to find. 

I largely agree with this, but then again we were a Marcus Peters away from making the playoffs last year, before Flacco got hurt at least. We need impact players and we'll take them at whatever position they come in, but to me Jack, Bosa, Ramsey, and maybe Buckner would all have to be gone. Maybe Hargreaves as well. Which of course is very possible.

[usmccharles]

9 minutes ago, nishadrahman13 said:

I largely agree with this, but then again we were a Marcus Peters away from making the playoffs last year, before Flacco got hurt at least. We need impact players and we'll take them at whatever position they come in, but to me Jack, Bosa, Ramsey, and maybe Buckner would all have to be gone. Maybe Hargreaves as well. Which of course is very possible.

um...what?

[nishadrahman13]

5 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

um...what?

Turnovers. We lost a preposterous 9 of our 11 total losses by one possession or less, and of course another loss (Jaguars) was actually a win. We have holes, undoubtedly, but I sincerely believe the biggest reason we went 5-11 was not our injuries, not our secondary getting torched (more in the first half due to big plays, tightened up some down the stretch), but our turnover differential.

Edited March 30, 2016 by nishadrahman13

[usmccharles]

Just now, nishadrahman13 said:

Turnovers. We lost a preposterous 9 of our 11 total losses by one possession or less, and of course another loss (Jaguars) was actually a win. We have holes, undoubtedly, but I sincerely believe the biggest reason we went 5-11 is not our injuries, not our secondary, but our lack of turnovers.

I highly disagree.  One player would not have turned us into a playoff team last year, even with more turnovers.  We got injured, out played, made dumb mistakes.  Do I think we were better than a 5 win team last year, yea but not by much considering what happened. 

[nishadrahman13]

2 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I highly disagree.  One player would not have turned us into a playoff team last year, even with more turnovers.  We got injured, out played, made dumb mistakes.  Do I think we were better than a 5 win team last year, yea but not by much considering what happened. 

Sure, it's all conjecture at this point. And there's no doubt that last season was an epic snowball on injuries, undisciplined play, poor refereeing, and downright bad luck. But I look back and think there were certain turning points that would have swung not just a game, but the entire season. Maybe I'm being too optimistic or feeding into hindsight too much, but I remember that even during the dismal season I could feel we were just that one playmaker away. And in many ways, I think the 2015 Chiefs were what the Ravens were hoping to be. Terrible start, epic regular season finish. A big key behind that were the 8 picks by the DROY Marcus Peters.

[usmccharles]

26 minutes ago, nishadrahman13 said:

Sure, it's all conjecture at this point. And there's no doubt that last season was an epic snowball on injuries, undisciplined play, poor refereeing, and downright bad luck. But I look back and think there were certain turning points that would have swung not just a game, but the entire season. Maybe I'm being too optimistic or feeding into hindsight too much, but I remember that even during the dismal season I could feel we were just that one playmaker away. And in many ways, I think the 2015 Chiefs were what the Ravens were hoping to be. Terrible start, epic regular season finish. A big key behind that were the 8 picks by the DROY Marcus Peters.

Understandable.  But look what happened to the Chiefs in the playoffs....even with Peters.  I just think it was time for a bad year for us

[BmoreBird22]

2 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I think @52520Andrew makes some good points.  We found Forset in FA as a backup and he became a top 5 rusher, that didn't help us against the Pats keeping 2 14pt leads.  We also found Rice in the 2nd round. Of course there isn't a RB in later rounds that can do what Zeke can, as of right now, thats the key words.  There is always gems to found late, if people would of known what Rice was going to be you think he would of went in the second round? Nope. 

Yes, actually, I do think he would have gone in the second, or higher, if they had known what he became (and could have been with a decent offensive line in 2013 and no DV). This was a guy who had over 4.0 yards per carry for four straight years, at least 1100 yards per season (two 1300 yard seasons), at least 60 catches, two 700 receiving yard seasons, and two seasons of 2000 yards from scrimmage. That's a really impressive resume for four years and the only thing holding him back from having been more productive was, again, DV and a poor offensive line in 2013. I remember thinking he looked pretty damn good in 2014 in the preseason before everything hit the fan.

And let's be honest on Forsett- he's had one good season and then dropped off pretty well in the next year. He also didn't offer nearly as much as a receiver as Zeke could. Historically, Forsett has been a really good change of pace back. I don't expect this broken arm to effect him that hard in any way, but let's be real- expectations shouldn't be that high for him to ever be what he was in 2014.

[usmccharles]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

Yes, actually, I do think he would have gone in the second, or higher, if they had known what he became (and could have been with a decent offensive line in 2013 and no DV). This was a guy who had over 4.0 yards per carry for four straight years, at least 1100 yards per season (two 1300 yard seasons), at least 60 catches, two 700 receiving yard seasons, and two seasons of 2000 yards from scrimmage. That's a really impressive resume for four years and the only thing holding him back from having been more productive was, again, DV and a poor offensive line in 2013. I remember thinking he looked pretty damn good in 2014 in the preseason before everything hit the fan.

And let's be honest on Forsett- he's had one good season and then dropped off pretty well in the next year. He also didn't offer nearly as much as a receiver as Zeke could. Historically, Forsett has been a really good change of pace back. I don't expect this broken arm to effect him that hard in any way, but let's be real- expectations shouldn't be that high for him to ever be what he was in 2014.

I think you missed my point or I didn't word it correct.  I was making the case that if people would have known how Rice was going to perform in the NFL he would of went in the first round.  I was just saying just because there is only "one good" RB prior to the draft doesn't mean that's the only RB that will be good, hence the later round gems and undrafted ones.  I too thought Rice was going to come back with vengeance, even drafted him 4th round in all my fantasy leagues (homerism I know). 

I wasn't saying Forset will be back to that form, was just using him as an example of finding RBs that perform well where you least expect it.  Forset put up just about 150 total yards against the loss to the Pats, Zeke may or may not have done that well, but that wasn't the problem, it was defense.  Zeke would already be making more money that Forset the day we sign him. 

[BmoreBird22]

11 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I think you missed my point or I didn't word it correct.  I was making the case that if people would have known how Rice was going to perform in the NFL he would of went in the first round.  I was just saying just because there is only "one good" RB prior to the draft doesn't mean that's the only RB that will be good, hence the later round gems and undrafted ones.  I too thought Rice was going to come back with vengeance, even drafted him 4th round in all my fantasy leagues (homerism I know). 

I wasn't saying Forset will be back to that form, was just using him as an example of finding RBs that perform well where you least expect it.  Forset put up just about 150 total yards against the loss to the Pats, Zeke may or may not have done that well, but that wasn't the problem, it was defense.  Zeke would already be making more money that Forset the day we sign him. 

Okay, that makes far more sense now. I was gonna say that Doug Martin went at the tail end of the first and his best comparison was probably Ray Rice. 

No, Ezekiel Elliot won't be the best running back in the NFL (at least, I wouldn't imagine he would be, but he could be), but would you rather have Elliot or would you rather have Buck Allen? I know a lot of people get hyped by his rookie season, but I didn't think it was all that impressive. 

And I know what you were getting at with Forsett, but I was just saying I don't think he's a fair example because 2014 can be viewed as an anomaly in the grand scheme of things since it was one year and if I were only getting one good year out of a late round back, I will take Elliot every day of the week if he produces to his potential.

And defense may have been the issue, but it was health more than anything that year (and a lot of it last year, too, honestly). I'm a firm believer in the best defense being an offense that can control the clock and keep the opposing offense off the field if your own defense isn't cutting it.

But just to hammer this home, think of some of the running backs you'd love to have on your team and you'll probably (and this is just who I think of) think of Gurley, Lynch, McCoy, Bell, Charles, Rice, Martin, and Peterson, just all off the top of my head. Every single one is a first or second rounder. And of course, that's no guarantee when you have guys like Cedrick Benson, Cadillac Williams (both going top five, I think three went top five that year), and CJ Spiller all going top 10 and failing to live up to their potential. The draft is a crapshoot, but more often than not, the backs that we commonly think of as being the best in the league, not just serviceable or good, but elite, are going very high.

Edited March 30, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[usmccharles]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Okay, that makes far more sense now. I was gonna say that Doug Martin went at the tail end of the first and his best comparison was probably Ray Rice. 

No, Ezekiel Elliot won't be the best running back in the NFL (at least, I wouldn't imagine he would be, but he could be), but would you rather have Elliot or would you rather have Buck Allen? I know a lot of people get hyped by his rookie season, but I didn't think it was all that impressive. 

And I know what you were getting at with Forsett, but I was just saying I don't think he's a fair example because 2014 can be viewed as an anomaly in the grand scheme of things since it was one year and if I were only getting one good year out of a late round back, I will take Elliot every day of the week if he produces to his potential.

And defense may have been the issue, but it was health more than anything that year (and a lot of it last year, too, honestly). I'm a firm believer in the best defense being an offense that can control the clock and keep the opposing offense off the field if your own defense isn't cutting it.

But just to hammer this home, think of some of the running backs you'd love to have on your team and you'll probably (and this is just who I think of) think of Gurley, Lynch, McCoy, Bell, Charles, Rice, Martin, and Peterson, just all off the top of my head. Every single one is a first or second rounder. And of course, that's no guarantee when you have guys like Cedrick Benson, Cadillac Williams (both going top five, I think three went top five that year), and CJ Spiller all going top 10 and failing to live up to their potential. The draft is a crapshoot, but more often than not, the backs that we commonly think of as being the best in the league, not just serviceable or good, but elite, are going very high.

Don't get me wrong, I love Zeke's talent and I would love to have him here.  You and I agree on Allen, im not impressed at all and I have been advocating for a playmaking RB since Rice left.  Hell, I don't even care to take him at 6 if the top guys on defense are gone.  Im not a fan of VH3 but if he can be a better than average corner I want him and especially if there is a chance hes a lockdown corner (I feel this is who we draft because of who is left).  I just feel that there are RB talents that can be found outside of the first round and would much rather see our defense get built back up.  If there is one player I want on the offense side of the ball, its Zeke. 

You have swayed be quite a bit to be honest though. 

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, usmccharles said:

Don't get me wrong, I love Zeke's talent and I would love to have him here.  You and I agree on Allen, im not impressed at all and I have been advocating for a playmaking RB since Rice left.  Hell, I don't even care to take him at 6 if the top guys on defense are gone.  Im not a fan of VH3 but if he can be a better than average corner I want him and especially if there is a chance hes a lockdown corner (I feel this is who we draft because of who is left).  I just feel that there are RB talents that can be found outside of the first round and would much rather see our defense get built back up.  If there is one player I want on the offense side of the ball, its Zeke. 

You have swayed be quite a bit to be honest though. 

The issue for me, though, is that the guys I'd really want are Ramsey, Jack (in the 4-3), and Tunsil, really.

With Bosa, I don't think he'll be that elite (I think he can be good) pass rusher because if he's gonna play the 3-4, I don't think his bend is the best and on the field, but doesn't show that elite speed/closing burst, although he'd be a hell of a run defender and at least provide some steady pressure with his bull rush. And with Buckner, I don't really see the value because he'll certainly be a good run defender in the 3-4 as a base end, but on passing downs, you kick him inside and have him play the 3T, more likely than not. Only problem is, the 3T is your premiere rushing DT and Buckner is way too tall (lacking serious leverage) and doesn't have nearly enough first step quickness or speed to be a 3T. You'd probably be relying on him to play as a 1T, but there's very little value there because he'd hardly be asked to provide pass rush in that area.

There are a few other guys I'd take first, but of the ones viewed as worthy of being the sixth overall pick, those are the three I'd take, assuming the Ravens switched to the 4-3 and incorporated Tampa 2 looks.

[usmccharles]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The issue for me, though, is that the guys I'd really want are Ramsey, Jack (in the 4-3), and Tunsil, really.

With Bosa, I don't think he'll be that elite (I think he can be good) pass rusher because if he's gonna play the 3-4, I don't think his bend is the best and on the field, but doesn't show that elite speed/closing burst, although he'd be a hell of a run defender and at least provide some steady pressure with his bull rush. And with Buckner, I don't really see the value because he'll certainly be a good run defender in the 3-4 as a base end, but on passing downs, you kick him inside and have him play the 3T, more likely than not. Only problem is, the 3T is your premiere rushing DT and Buckner is way too tall (lacking serious leverage) and doesn't have nearly enough first step quickness or speed to be a 3T. You'd probably be relying on him to play as a 1T, but there's very little value there because he'd hardly be asked to provide pass rush in that area.

There are a few other guys I'd take first, but of the ones viewed as worthy of being the sixth overall pick, those are the three I'd take, assuming the Ravens switched to the 4-3 and incorporated Tampa 2 looks.

Basically agree with you on all this.  Im not a fan of Bosa, just a hunch, but I don't see him bullying people around in the NFL, I think he will be good, just not as good as a lot of people are thinking.  Buckner I don't get too excited about either.  If you ever read my mock draft, its been awhile now, I had us taking Jack, he is still who I want but I just don't think its going to happy.  Im pretty confident that our secondary is going to be better than what people think, as VH3 is the last option I want there.  If we trade back and all those guys are gone, Zeke would make me happy.  I just worry about finding a pass rusher for the future. 

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Basically agree with you on all this.  Im not a fan of Bosa, just a hunch, but I don't see him bullying people around in the NFL, I think he will be good, just not as good as a lot of people are thinking.  Buckner I don't get too excited about either.  If you ever read my mock draft, its been awhile now, I had us taking Jack, he is still who I want but I just don't think its going to happy.  Im pretty confident that our secondary is going to be better than what people think, as VH3 is the last option I want there.  If we trade back and all those guys are gone, Zeke would make me happy.  I just worry about finding a pass rusher for the future. 

I think people comparing Bosa to McPhee is unfair because while Bosa can move around a lot, I don't think he'll provide the same impact. McPhee was top five in pass rushing productivity last year and this year, I believe, for outside linebackers and that's after being THE GUY in Chicago. 

Buckner is one I had kinda re-signed to the Ravens taking, but have never felt tremendous about, other than his three 100 snap games, which really blows me away. I think two came back to back, too.

Jack, for me, will only happen if it's going to be a 4-3 defense, but even then, I expect the Jaguars to snag him because that is a very Gus Bradley like player right there. 

As far as pass rushers go, you'd have to start thinking of guys like Fackrell and Calhoun. I think a lot of people dogged Calhoun, but he's got better first step quickness than many on here gave him credit for early on and he's got a pretty good amount of speed, great natural bend, and understands how to lean to create speed to power. Showed a lot improvement in his hands and really focused hard on using many different moves this year. Still needs to hit the weights a lot and continue to be developed as a pass rusher (hands and moves a work in progress, but at least he's trying), but he could do very well to sit behind Suggs and Doom and take over the next year.

[rmw10]

4 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I just can't agree with this mindset. The ravens do this all the time at important positions and it comes back to bite us, and in some cases A RB really can be of value. I think this is one of those cases. I don't see any RB in this draft that can bring what he does to the run game, and DEFINITELY no backs who bring what he brings on 3rd down and short yardage and goal line and general smarts to be a guy who the offense can depend on. 

 

I've said it a million times, zeke could have literally been the difference in every single 1 possession loss last year, his presence probably results in another 3 to 4 first downs every single week, our red zone conversion and 3rd down conversion goes up by a good amount with a guy like him. He could have the biggest impact on this team depending on how you look at it. There is no back in the later rounds or on the team who can do that. A true workhorse who brings a major impact and is reliable, is hard to find. 

I'm not vehemently opposed to Zeke, but I'd also caution you that Andrew isn't saying you'll be able to find another version of him later. Maybe you'll find a star somewhere late, but chances are that you'll find multiple players that combine to make someone like Zeke. Is it ideal? Of course not. You always want the player that can do it all. The question becomes whether or not you can get better value at 6 and then piece it together to get that dream RB.  

[JoeyFlex5]

5 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I think @52520Andrew makes some good points.  We found Forset in FA as a backup and he became a top 5 rusher, that didn't help us against the Pats keeping 2 14pt leads.  We also found Rice in the 2nd round. Of course there isn't a RB in later rounds that can do what Zeke can, as of right now, thats the key words.  There is always gems to found late, if people would of known what Rice was going to be you think he would of went in the second round? Nope. 

To say he could of possibly won us a lot of those 1 possession losses last year is kind of hedging your bet, you can also say if Suggs was in some of those games he could of done the same.  He is imo the best offensive talent in this draft and I think everyone would agree, but defense is just a bigger need issue imo. 

I wont lie, I would be excited to have him here, but when we give up late leads in the 4Q because our defense cant stop anyone, I will instantly think of us ignoring a key playmaker on defense side. 

I don't want to confuse anyone, i prefer vh3. But I Will gladly play devil's advocate for prospects that i like. I think vh3 turns our defense  around immediately. However, I'm not gonna deny the impact zeke could make on this team just to hype up my guy. Keeping a drive alive with a key blitz pickup or converting in the red zone I'm the first quarter instead of settling for a fg we've often seen could be the difference. I'm saying over the course of the season zeke really could be the difference between converting and falling short a large number of times. That stuff adds up.

[GrimCoconut]

Just curious but...

@BmoreBird22

Between Elliott and Hargreaves who do you pick? Hargreaves could cover the slot or move to outside CB if Wright struggles or one of our CB goes down. Elliot could help convert downs, protect Joe, and run the rock. Both have guys after them close in skill with question marks.

[BmoreBird22]

5 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Just curious but...

@BmoreBird22

Between Elliott and Hargreaves who do you pick? Hargreaves could cover the slot or move to outside CB if Wright struggles or one of our CB goes down. Elliot could help convert downs, protect Joe, and run the rock. Both have guys after them close in skill with question marks.

Elliot because I think you can get a good corner (Apple, Fuller, Alexander) in the second round, but I don't think you'll get anyone close to Elliot in the second round. That's just the way I have to think about it and actually a big reason I don't think Buckner is the best pick- DL is STACKED this year.