BmoreBird22's Second Mock Draft

[Wildabeast88]

3 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

As bad as Luck was this year, he completed 55% of his passes which is better than the 47% Tebow completed in his only season of significant snaps on a far better team. I don't care what Tebow made as an announcer, that has literally nothing to do with how good a player he is in the NFL.

Oh I already know that but using box scores and national championships to try to justify him being better is just not how you evaluate players. If stats and national championships are your only argument for why player X is better than player Y, it will be hard for me to take you seriously.

Part of the Tebow thing is sarcasm I get it he was not a good QB in the pros but Luck got darn near killed thus my who had a better year. I watch every Ohio St game so I have seen what Elliott brings to the table I have seen plenty of Gurley I know what he offers watch tape compare stats everything I look at I like Zeke better. I mean Nick Chubb arguably was having a better year than Gurley no one at Ohio St was even in the same area code talent wise. In January I will take this back up when Zeke is ROY.

[allblackraven]

23 minutes ago, Wildabeast88 said:

And Luck was awful got his brains beat in lacerated a Kidney and Tebow made big money talking about football. I'm just saying Zeke can do it all and was a huge success I get Gurley was good but I will take Zeke all day everyday we can agree to disagree but let's look where he goes and put his numbers up to Gurley's I will take my chances

smh

[GrimCoconut]

29 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

No sir he was terrible in pass coverage last year. As many times as I got upset with him lol. He needs to work on that part of his game.

He certainly does but he wasn't bad in coverage as a rookie. I certainly agree on the latter though

[ellicottraven]

For all the Elliott naysayers and there are many understandably, here is an article I came upon researching him. I thought it would be an interesting read and provide a good perspective on him besides your keen film watching abilities. I thought what was said about him was impressive to say the least. If any RB can be mentioned in the same sentence as AP, he shouldn't be dismissed so quickly.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/03/08/draftezekiel-elliott-is-the-most-complete-rb-prospect-since-adrian-peterson/

Edited March 28, 2016 by ellicottraven

[Tyler]

Just now, ellicottraven said:

For all the Elliott naysayers and there are many understandably, here is an article I came upon researching him. I thought it would be an interesting read and provide a good perspective on him besides your keen film watching abilities. I thought what was said about him was impressive to say the least. If any RB can be mentioned in the same sentence as AP, he shouldn't be dismissed so quickly.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/03/08/draftezekiel-elliott-is-the-most-complete-rb-prospect-since-adrian-peterson/

How many running backs have been compared to Adrian Peterson coming out tho? Quite a few. Not saying that he won't be a great player, I personally think he will be a workhorse at the next level. I just don't see the Ravens having a running back that high on their board when there are much more pressing needs at key positions. 

[52520Andrew]

3 minutes ago, Wildabeast88 said:

Part of the Tebow thing is sarcasm I get it he was not a good QB in the pros but Luck got darn near killed thus my who had a better year. I watch every Ohio St game so I have seen what Elliott brings to the table I have seen plenty of Gurley I know what he offers watch tape compare stats everything I look at I like Zeke better. I mean Nick Chubb arguably was having a better year than Gurley no one at Ohio St was even in the same area code talent wise. In January I will take this back up when Zeke is ROY.

Well then argue the tape if you have seen these guys so much. I don't care if he is OROY, I don't like him at 6 and in a draft with not much else at the skill position players it would not surprise me one bit if Elliott is the ROY on offense(because let's face it, O-linemen get no respect when it comes to these awards). And even if Elliott wins OROY, guess what? So did Gurley last year. Gurley also made a Pro Bowl(kinda meaningless but still) and was named second team all pro at his position. And I should add that it was behind a pretty shaky O-line in St. Louis with Nick Foles/Case Keenum starting at QB.

[L.A.Ravens]

No on the first two picks. The rest I would be happy with.

[Cillmatic]

45 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

He certainly does but he wasn't bad in coverage as a rookie. I certainly agree on the latter though

Let's think about this. Mosley is a run stuffing MLB, the Ravens had no pass rush last year... I wonder how the run stuffing MLB will do in coverage with zero pas rush...

[GrimCoconut]

Just now, Cillmatic said:

Let's think about this. Mosley is a run stuffing MLB, the Ravens had no pass rush last year... I wonder how the run stuffing MLB will do in coverage with zero pas rush...

Mosley can cover, though. No, he's not the best coverage LB out there, but the guy is not a run-stuffing  MLB. Mosley is capable of coverage. He had a bad year last year, but watching him in college, he could cover. He is more of a zone coverage LB, and he can do man sometimes but it depends on the player. He is better against RBs than he is TEs in man coverage. 

[BmoreBird22]

5 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Ironic since your making the point for a RB at 6 lol.  I feel like Jack would be Matheiu type player and im more than ok with that, but like i said, i dont think he makes it us and if Tunsil, Buckner, Jack, VH3, Ramsey, Bosa are all gone, than i like your Zeke pick, it would definitely be something different and unexpected.  

Errrr, no, not ironic when you consider this particular running back can be an absolute game changer for the offense. A second inside linebacker won't vault the defense to the top. 

He will absolutely not be Mathieu because while he has strong coverage for a linebacker, you're trying to compare it to a free safety. Don't get too carried away.

[52520Andrew]

2 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Errrr, no, not ironic when you consider this particular running back can be an absolute game changer for the offense. A second inside linebacker won't vault the defense to the top. 

The offense is quite a bit better than the defense already so going on about no one player making this defense great is a bit like saying water is wet. JJ Watt would not fix this defense. Would you take Elliott over him for this reason?

[usmccharles]

4 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Errrr, no, not ironic when you consider this particular running back can be an absolute game changer for the offense. A second inside linebacker won't vault the defense to the top. 

He will absolutely not be Mathieu because while he has strong coverage for a linebacker, you're trying to compare it to a free safety. Don't get too carried away.

I meant ironic in the sense that you cant see anyone convincing you to take a LB at 6 yet your making an argument for possibly the most undesired position for us at the moment, that's all.  Like I said, I like the talent he offers but I feel our defense needs to improve much more drastically than our offense. 

I wasn't comparing Jack to Mathieu position wise, just the fact that hes a playmaker and could really change things with his coverage skills over the middle of the field.  Would hardly consider that getting carried away.    Considering how bad our defense was last year, ignoring it for the first two rounds doesn't seem smart.

2 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

The offense is quite a bit better than the defense already so going on about no one player making this defense great is a bit like saying water is wet. JJ Watt would not fix this defense. Would you take Elliott over him for this reason?

This is basically the point I was trying to make. 

[Tru11]

some of you guys need to drop the short term thinking.

thats not how the ravens go to work.

Elliot is 1 of the top overall talented players in this draft.

in terms of talent id say only ramsey tunsil and jack are ahead of him.

if those 3 are gone and odds are they will then it would be a no brainer to get him.

a guy like elliot will make the offense better and settle the position for years and will take pressure away from flacco to carry the offense by himself.

i prefer jack cause he will make the defense better overall but elliot could have an impact like AP.

just look what gurley did on bad offense is 1 of the toughest divisions.

sure RBs are dimes in a dozen but a game changers still is hard to find.

[BmoreBird22]

5 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

The offense is quite a bit better than the defense already so going on about no one player making this defense great is a bit like saying water is wet. JJ Watt would not fix this defense. Would you take Elliott over him for this reason?

I think JJ Watt would go an extremely long way if the defense could stay healthy. That's about the biggest issue at the moment is that they didn't have a consistent pass rush or healthy corners. Get that and the defense looks vastly improved.

Elliot does help the defense because running runs out the clock and simply having a back to get first downs would help so much with just grinding out the game. You have to remember that in 2014, Forsett was the NFL's leading fourth quarter rusher or close to it, but I believe top. The Ravens really want to be able to grind out games at the end with the running game.

Edited March 29, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[BmoreBird22]

3 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I meant ironic in the sense that you cant see anyone convincing you to take a LB at 6 yet your making an argument for possibly the most undesired position for us at the moment, that's all.  Like I said, I like the talent he offers but I feel our defense needs to improve much more drastically than our offense. 

I wasn't comparing Jack to Mathieu position wise, just the fact that hes a playmaker and could really change things with his coverage skills over the middle of the field.  Would hardly consider that getting carried away.    Considering how bad our defense was last year, ignoring it for the first two rounds doesn't seem smart.

I know what you're trying to say on both accounts, but Elliott isn't just a running back; he's a three down back with game changing ability and as Tru said, that's not always easy to find and there's a reason game changers are gone by 10. 

He won't have a Mathieu type impact because Mathieu plays everywhere on the field and does it all. He is basically what I could envision Ramsey becoming, and more, if he lives up to his potential, but a second inside linebacker will not have a Mathieu type impact. In the 3-4, he won't even be Kuechly. At best, you're looking at a younger Karlos Dansby/Daryl Smith impact inside. That's not to say it's bad, but his value is very limited within this scheme.

[usmccharles]

9 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I know what you're trying to say on both accounts, but Elliott isn't just a running back; he's a three down back with game changing ability and as Tru said, that's not always easy to find and there's a reason game changers are gone by 10. 

He won't have a Mathieu type impact because Mathieu plays everywhere on the field and does it all. He is basically what I could envision Ramsey becoming, and more, if he lives up to his potential, but a second inside linebacker will not have a Mathieu type impact. In the 3-4, he won't even be Kuechly. At best, you're looking at a younger Karlos Dansby/Daryl Smith impact inside. That's not to say it's bad, but his value is very limited within this scheme.

Yea I hear ya, you make great points and I have been all for getting another playmaking RB, I would just rather see that player be on the defense side of the ball.  Joe was having a great game against the Pats two years ago and we had a top 5 RB then....but our defense let us down, two separate 14pt leads, guess im still stuck on that. 

[GrimCoconut]

One thing I'm seeing forgotten here in this Elliott debate is that having a RB that can consistently convert downs used as a weapon out of the backfield and who can protect the QB is very important. 

@52520Andrew I don't love the idea of taking a RB high, either; however, I think Elliott could have a positive effect on the defense since a solid run game keeps the defense off the field longer and eats clock.  You'll find fewer people here who think we absolutely must take an OLB and CB high to bring this defense back to respectability, but taking Elliott would positively influence the defense. 

We'd also probably be more successful in short yardage conversions and redzone scoring, and would likely do better converting on 4th down and even 3rd. 

There's a lot of sense to taking a RB like Elliott to accomplish this. It also likely frees up more RB roster spots since we can then dump all these potential guys. 

[Edgar]

6 hours ago, Tru11 said:

some of you guys need to drop the short term thinking.

thats not how the ravens go to work.

Elliot is 1 of the top overall talented players in this draft.

in terms of talent id say only ramsey tunsil and jack are ahead of him.

if those 3 are gone and odds are they will then it would be a no brainer to get him.

a guy like elliot will make the offense better and settle the position for years and will take pressure away from flacco to carry the offense by himself.

i prefer jack cause he will make the defense better overall but elliot could have an impact like AP.

just look what gurley did on bad offense is 1 of the toughest divisions.

sure RBs are dimes in a dozen but a game changers still is hard to find.

Yes. Ozzie will take who best fits this team long term. Elliot might be that guy for a lot of reasons previously stated.

One of my favorite mocks because he operates from that mind set. Now,to me some picks are ambitious in terms of a player being there but the approach ,I like. Running is the best player?  That's our pick.

Round two and the highest ranked player on our board is a center who we envision being a mainstay for the next ten years? Take him.

As an aside, I think Buckner is our round one selection.

[Tru11]

3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I know what you're trying to say on both accounts, but Elliott isn't just a running back; he's a three down back with game changing ability and as Tru said, that's not always easy to find and there's a reason game changers are gone by 10. 

He won't have a Mathieu type impact because Mathieu plays everywhere on the field and does it all. He is basically what I could envision Ramsey becoming, and more, if he lives up to his potential, but a second inside linebacker will not have a Mathieu type impact. In the 3-4, he won't even be Kuechly. At best, you're looking at a younger Karlos Dansby/Daryl Smith impact inside. That's not to say it's bad, but his value is very limited within this scheme.

meh if he pans out i could see him more have an impact like willis/bowman had.

or a derrick johnson impact.

jacks brings a lot more range and coverage then dansby/daryl smith.

if he could be like willis running toe to toe with receivers down the field and run  side line to side line then you have 1 hell of player.

willis/bowman combo was to be feared and they where the heart of those niners defense that where a top 3 unit.
to me those defenses had even worse corners and safeties then what he have right now lel.

 

[BmoreBird22]

3 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Yea I hear ya, you make great points and I have been all for getting another playmaking RB, I would just rather see that player be on the defense side of the ball.  Joe was having a great game against the Pats two years ago and we had a top 5 RB then....but our defense let us down, two separate 14pt leads, guess im still stuck on that. 

It's just hard to see them go defense if it isn't Ramsey, but hey, maybe they trade back and grab Lawson or Dodd.

[usmccharles]

28 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

It's just hard to see them go defense if it isn't Ramsey, but hey, maybe they trade back and grab Lawson or Dodd.

I won't lie,  if we take elliot I'll have a good amount of excitement for our offense.  Hell I already do

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, Tru11 said:

meh if he pans out i could see him more have an impact like willis/bowman had.

or a derrick johnson impact.

jacks brings a lot more range and coverage then dansby/daryl smith.

if he could be like willis running toe to toe with receivers down the field and run  side line to side line then you have 1 hell of player.

willis/bowman combo was to be feared and they where the heart of those niners defense that where a top 3 unit.
to me those defenses had even worse corners and safeties then what he have right now lel.

 

I think Derrick Johnson is actually fair. I was just trying to think of strong coverage linebackers, but you are right that he has a lot more range than Dansby or Smith.

I just don't think he's going to be running with receivers in the NFL (his usage in that sense was more in the short to intermediate range) and I question if he'll even be asked to cover backs or tight ends that much because the Ravens likely have a lot of faith that Webb or Weddle could play rover and take out tight ends. Although, it wouldn't be bad at all to have someone like Jack take out TE's and just allow a Cover 2 look.

I would argue that they actually had some very strong secondary play with a group of underrated players, but those defenses were vaulted into the top 5 after Vic Fangio and Jim Harbaugh came and after Harbaugh pretty much made that offense a clock controlling offense. 

But in any case, Willis missed six games in 2014 and was clearly affected by a toe injury when healthy and Bowman missed all of 2014, yet that defense ranked fifth in yards per game. Honestly, if I had to pick the least important position on the 3-4 defense, I'm going with inside linebacker.

[BmoreBird22]

13 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I won't lie,  if we take elliot I'll have a good amount of excitement for our offense.  Hell I already do

And I'm not gonna lie, if the Ravens embraced a full time switch to the 4-3/Tampa 2, Jack would be my pick by a mile. He'd be so perfect for that defense and so would Fuller. It'd make for a scary defense.

[BmoreBird22]

On 3/28/2016 at 9:29 AM, GrimCoconut said:

I understand your point but one thing I'd consider is how rarely we use a traditional 3-4 scheme. Yes, we use a lot of 3-4, more I've seen our DL formation very frequently bring Suggs or another rush LB up to the DL to give us a 4-man front to bring us to a nickel formation. At that point, we either take a LB off the field for a safety or CB, but with Jack we may not have to do that. Or, we could still do that and have a strong coverage unit. 

Just some food  for thought. I don't think it matters because I honestly don't expect Jack to be there for us. I think he'll be gone before we're up unless we trade ahead. 

Well, as far as the hybrid is concerned, if I'm not mistaken, that edge rusher is still playing in the two point stance quite often, not putting his hand in the dirt. With Jack, you probably don't have to take a guy off the field because he'll take out the tight end and Webb has cover experience, so it'd give a lot of versatility,

But imagine a full time switch to the Tampa 2- Fuller and Jack would be ideal and Jack's roaming, range, and coverage would be a lot better suited and more valuable. And at that point, you probably don't even have to worry about taking anyone off the field at all unless it's a rotation.

Edited March 29, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[ludy51]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

And I'm not gonna lie, if the Ravens embraced a full time switch to the 4-3/Tampa 2, Jack would be my pick by a mile. He'd be so perfect for that defense and so would Fuller. It'd make for a scary defense.

If we were to switch to a 4-3, what would we do with Mosely?

[52520Andrew]

Because T.O.P. was a huge concern for the defense last year apparently? It might make a little difference but it won't give us stops if we don't have the players.

With Weddle, Watt could help a lot but we wouldn't become the 2015 Broncos no matter who you add is my point. They were deep just about everywhere and it takes time to get that depth. One player is not putting the defense over the top and judging any defensive player in the draft based on that to me is off.

As for injuries, I think we have had this conversation before but I don't think that was the problem. I don't know if it is lack of talent or coaching but I don't think us just letting guys get healthy will turn the defense around. I think Weddle will be great for us but we need more if we want a respectable group to me unless we get really lucky on the injury front.

I'd love to keep Weddle and Webb deep(don't like Webb covering the TE) and just let Jack do his thing over the middle. It would put the secondary in a nice position.

[BmoreBird22]

39 minutes ago, ludy51 said:

If we were to switch to a 4-3, what would we do with Mosely?

Play him at MIKE and Jack at WLB. I think that would be his best role.

[JoeyFlex5]

22 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Because T.O.P. was a huge concern for the defense last year apparently? It might make a little difference but it won't give us stops if we don't have the players.

With Weddle, Watt could help a lot but we wouldn't become the 2015 Broncos no matter who you add is my point. They were deep just about everywhere and it takes time to get that depth. One player is not putting the defense over the top and judging any defensive player in the draft based on that to me is off.

As for injuries, I think we have had this conversation before but I don't think that was the problem. I don't know if it is lack of talent or coaching but I don't think us just letting guys get healthy will turn the defense around. I think Weddle will be great for us but we need more if we want a respectable group to me unless we get really lucky on the injury front.

I'd love to keep Weddle and Webb deep(don't like Webb covering the TE) and just let Jack do his thing over the middle. It would put the secondary in a nice position.

So to be clear are you clamoring for Jack as the guy who Will make the biggest impact to our defensive problems? 

 

Because that's fine and all if he's there, but if he's not then it's a pretty hard plan to follow.

[GrimCoconut]

49 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Well, as far as the hybrid is concerned, if I'm not mistaken, that edge rusher is still playing in the two point stance quite often, not putting his hand in the dirt. With Jack, you probably don't have to take a guy off the field because he'll take out the tight end and Webb has cover experience, so it'd give a lot of versatility,

But imagine a full time switch to the Tampa 2- Fuller and Jack would be ideal and Jack's roaming, range, and coverage would be a lot better suited and more valuable. And at that point, you probably don't even have to worry about taking anyone off the field at all unless it's a rotation.

I didn't count or anything like that last year but I recall seeing a lot of 4-3 looks especially at the end of the year

[GrimCoconut]

32 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Because T.O.P. was a huge concern for the defense last year apparently? It might make a little difference but it won't give us stops if we don't have the players.

With Weddle, Watt could help a lot but we wouldn't become the 2015 Broncos no matter who you add is my point. They were deep just about everywhere and it takes time to get that depth. One player is not putting the defense over the top and judging any defensive player in the draft based on that to me is off.

As for injuries, I think we have had this conversation before but I don't think that was the problem. I don't know if it is lack of talent or coaching but I don't think us just letting guys get healthy will turn the defense around. I think Weddle will be great for us but we need more if we want a respectable group to me unless we get really lucky on the injury front.

I'd love to keep Weddle and Webb deep(don't like Webb covering the TE) and just let Jack do his thing over the middle. It would put the secondary in a nice position.

To be fair, last year the main component we were missing was McPhee. We just lost Upshaw so there are concerns on seeing the edge, and Daryl is now gone, but I don't think this defense is far from being a good defense again. That's three players. 

Granted I'll give you the fact that our guys are now two years older as well. 

Edited March 29, 2016 by GrimCoconut